need help with a new HDD, won't format

[trollkind]

Hi, this issue isn't that horizons related but I'm desperate enough to try, this community was helpfull before. In fact this issue holds me from playing anything so it might be on topic, ah well. . . let's get started.

Last week my Raid (0) was acting up and I foresaw a total data loss so I went and bought a new Seagate 200 GB (ST3200822A). My main harddrive was a 40 gig and the aforementioned 2x80 raid.
I knew of the 137 GB limitation but thought I'd be covered since I run Windows XP Pro with SP1. Bios detected it correctly and windows showed it under its Volume managment with the correct size. Strange thing was that it wouldn't format to the end. It goes to like 94 or 100% then comes back with an error and the drive is still unformatted, the partition still showing up but not usable.
After a little search I found that I not only need SP1 but a hotfix and a registry key (EnableBigLba) to work with hdd's bigger than 137 GB. So I apllied the hotfix and created the key (I did that correctly, checked with a program).
I also updated my Bios (which officially supported larger than 137 GB drives before too) and the ATAPI driver.
The problem stayed the same.
I tried formatting with the volume administration tool of win XP, the Seagate DiskWizard for windows AND the Dos version and Partition Magic 8.0. All start formatting normally but either hang up on some point or end with a failure/error notice.
All tests come back as perfect though. I did a full S.M.A.R.T. test and searched sector by sector.
Yesterday the hdd started making strange noises, not the dread loud clacking but more of a beep-clack, while that sound my comp either completely hung up or slowed down to almost zero until the sound stopped again. At some point I couldn't even boot.
So I disconnected it. Now I've taken it out of the mobile rack to see if that is causing the problem. So far I didn't get any strange noises but the formatting problem stays the same.
Seagate and microsoft Faq's couldn't help and for warranty issues I have to go to the place of purchase, which of course is closed over the weekend.
I don't know if the hdd is broken or if I'm missing something else.
If anyone has an idea I didn't already tried please write it down here.

Many thanks in advance, Simon aka trollkind.

[Ulkesh]

you're not trying to format it fat32 are you? it has size limitations that can't be overcome.

other than that, you may have just gotten a lemon and need to get it exchanged. you probly dont have many options over that.

[trollkind]

ah, forgot that detail, of course NTFS with cluster size 4 kb, even tried 64kb once. No difference. Since it hangs up after a while even now that it is out of the rack, I guess it really is a lemon :( . It gets tremendously hot too, even when it shouldn't have anything to do, after all it isn't formatted but the sides are to hot to touch. :s

edit: thanks for your concern ;)

[Sunuke]

Are you deviding up the drive in several partitions?

This is something that sometimes seems to help

My RAID 0 array on my server was being a biotch to till i made a 20Gb boot partition and 280Gb data partition

Its a 4x80 setting and ofcourse in NTFS as i have win2k server on it till i can work linux which i'm learning now

[trollkind]

Ah, another thing I forgot to write down. I once tried to divide the 200 to 120 first and a 80. Now the strange things start again, the 120 could be formatted correctly but the 80 couldn't. So the problem, whatever it is, is in the "last" sectors.
It shouldn't be the size limitation though, since I have done every possible thing to overcome that and my comp is only 2 years old. If it is bad sectors, then why does come back with positive SMART checks?
I don't get it but let's see what my hardware dealer has to say about that.

[Sunuke]

i have never heard of this limitation problem myself so yeah maybe there is a problem with the drive itself

[trollkind]

Ok, update:
The hdd performed perfectly under my supervision at the little testcenter of the place of purchase. None of the problems I experienced showed up.
The means I'm stuck with a 200 gig hdd that is incompatible with my system somehow :( .
Since the hdd is ok it must be either Bios/motherboard or Windows. When it freezed my comp it happened even before bios was fully loaded or after some minutes of normal windows usage, totally random but since it occured as earlay as on the bios initialization I guess it's an issue with my hardware, maybe even my power supply, although it's 400W and I have neither a hungry gfx card nor Cpu (with only the original fan).

motherboard Asus P4B533-E
Although it should have supported large (over 137 Gb) drives natively with the preinstalled Bios revision 1009 I flashed it succesfully with the latest 1014E from 2003 after the problems showed up.
I tried both Ide ports as master or slave (with the appropriate jumper settings), tried different cables (40 and 80 wires) in and out of the mobile rack (equip mobile hdd rack 124929, supports up to UDMA 133). The only thing left would be to try it as a single on my onboard promise fasttrack 133 controller but that is blocked by my raid (2+0stripe) which I'm afraid to even touch since I only bought the 200 to back it up on since it showed unreliabilties lately.

windows XP Pro with service pack 1
did everything in the microsoft knowledge base:
-service pack 1 installed > was before the hdd came in;
-set the registry key EnableBigLba 1;
-install latest ATAPI driver (5.1.2600.1135, the one of service pack2);
-install a hotfix linked there;

I got no clue whatsoever, if you have one, please drop me a line. thanks.

[Ulkesh]

Ok, update:
The hdd performed perfectly under my supervision at the little testcenter of the place of purchase. None of the problems I experienced showed up.
The means I'm stuck with a 200 gig hdd that is incompatible with my system somehow [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-6.gif[/img] .
Since the hdd is ok it must be either Bios/motherboard or Windows. When it freezed my comp it happened even before bios was fully loaded or after some minutes of normal windows usage, totally random but since it occured as earlay as on the bios initialization I guess it's an issue with my hardware, maybe even my power supply, although it's 400W and I have neither a hungry gfx card nor Cpu (with only the original fan).

motherboard Asus P4B533-E
Although it should have supported large (over 137 Gb) drives natively with the preinstalled Bios revision 1009 I flashed it succesfully with the latest 1014E from 2003 after the problems showed up.
I tried both Ide ports as master or slave (with the appropriate jumper settings), tried different cables (40 and 80 wires) in and out of the mobile rack (equip mobile hdd rack 124929, supports up to UDMA 133). The only thing left would be to try it as a single on my onboard promise fasttrack 133 controller but that is blocked by my raid (2+0stripe) which I'm afraid to even touch since I only bought the 200 to back it up on since it showed unreliabilties lately.

windows XP Pro with service pack 1
did everything in the microsoft knowledge base:
-service pack 1 installed > was before the hdd came in;
-set the registry key EnableBigLba 1;
-install latest ATAPI driver (5.1.2600.1135, the one of service pack2);
-install a hotfix linked there;

I got no clue whatsoever, if you have one, please drop me a line. thanks.

do you happen to have another machine you could try it on?

anyway, you said you had a 400w psu, is it a name brand, or some cheaper model. the lesser models claim 400w, but rarely produce the power they boast.
even if it is a quality psu, it could be on its way out. dying psu's can cause all sorts of problems. see if you can borrow one for testing. or just plug up the power and not the data cable and see if it has the same problem of locking up your pc.

[Sunuke]

Could you post here what you are using.

I somehow get the feeling that you are trying to place both an IDE RAID card and IDE 133 card in your system. If so i have had big problems doing this.

When you wanna use hard drives in RAID they need to be all equal size sectors and cylinders

I think it's impossible that a harddrive made for IDE is incompatible as they are build according to certain standardised norms.

When having problems like this make sure you have flashed your BIOS and also make sure that all jumpers on your mainboard are on the right spot. They are calling these mainboards jumperless but because there is such a wide choise of hardware possible that you can connect on these mainboards they sometimes place a jumper for default and a specific setting.
this is what ASUS die with the A7N8X range mainboards, there is one jusmper that gives you a 266/333/400 FSB but this leaves the dual channel off but when you then change the jumper position to 400 FSB only the dual channel option is activated.

So look in your online manual of your mainboard and of your controler cards (can be flashed too)

[trollkind]

@Ulkesh: It's a noname cheapo, I will try to exchange it with my PowerMan 400 of my previous Pc. Thanks for the obvious push, sometimes I need that :).

@Sunuke: Two identical WD 80 gig are on my raid controller, the new 200 Seagate goes to my normal onboard ide controller. The guy at the store said something about upgrading Ide driver but there doesn'T seem to be such kind of thing for my motherboard. Asus only lists updates for the raid controller, the intel application accelerator, which seems to function as the chipset driver and I got the newest ATAPI driver from microsoft.
rereading my motherboard manual, it says the IDE controller can only supports up to UDMA100 but the Seagate is only UDMA 100 too, so that shouldn't be the problem (it's supposed to be no problem if it was UDMA 133 capable either).
No jumpers that have any conern to an IDE problem though.
I will try the Seagate as a single on the RAID controller, contrary to what I bought it for, but if it works, hey :).

btw, Asus Faq:
Q:Does P4B533-E support 48 bit LBA?
A:Yes, both the ICH4 and Promise chipset can support 48 bit LBA on P4B533-E with BIOS version 1002 or later. (have 1014E by now)

[Ulkesh]

good luck trying to find an update for a ide bios or driver, they are rare in most cases.

and usually alot of mobos only had ata100 and they still worked fine with 133 drives. it just falls back to 100. but since maxtor are the only ones who make 133 it really shouldnt affect squat.

try cs instead of master or slave, if you havent already. some newer motherboards prefer using cs for some odd reason.

[trollkind]

The Bios update was an easy find, Asus has a nice support site.
I realized that there is an Intel Ultra Ata driver but the newest one (6.20) won't work with my chipset (Intel 845E), Intel always brings me to the Intel application accelerator but that is just a little tuning tool.
The Hardware manager tells me that my Ultra Ata driver is 4.0.1001.0 as can be seen in the properties of the Intel 82801DB PCI Bridge. That's back from 02.July.2001, so that might at least contribute to my problems, now I'm looking for an update but that's very difficult since I can't use the newest ones, Asus doesn't give me any update on it and google doesn't come up with something useable too.

I haven't yet delved deeper into the PSU situation though, at the moment I still have the drive correctly formatted and accepted by Windows from when the store mechanic formatted it on his test Pc but I'm afraid to put any data on it as it just selfdestroyed the Datasystem the last time I tried to stuff it.

Lol, I did the Intel application accelerator wrong, it is indeed the Ata driver for my chipset, but it still dates back to 2001, it reports the drive properties correctly so I will give it a try and start copying my raid over.

[Sunuke]

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fcc.html

This is a site where you can find out which drivers the devices need

you need to look for an FCC code

[Thalak]

You tried booting with the windows xp cd and running a format there?

Would be really curious to see what the preinstall environment says that drive is, its capacity and if it duplicates the issues with the format.

[trollkind]

The actual situation is: still got the correctly formatted 200 gig partition from the testcenter on it and started to fill it up. It stopped writing at about 87 Gb with a writing/hardware error. The last three files are unreadable and cost the Pc a considerable amount of time before it reacts again.
I don't want to lose the partition, since I have to bring it over to a friend to get it again now, so I try to figure out what to do without reformatting. If I remember correctly I tried the XP CD booting repair concole to format it and it was the same problem, size and type and all showing up correctly but the formatting process couldn't end without an error and an unusable filesystem.
An extended SMART check with the Seagate's own Disc Wizard showed up a SMART error but nothing more specific, a quick SMART check this morning said everything ok.
None of my friends have a big enough disk to let me try another 135+ drive let alone format it. :)

[Ulkesh]

sounds like your options are limited to saving up enough cash and trying another hard drive.

At the very least I would suggest hooking up this hard drive to another friends machine, ( a fairly recent PC) and trying to copy about 5 more gigs to it. Since you can't copy any more to it on yours, try it and see if they can.

If you can use it fine on another machine, I'd say it's a controller issue. Maybe you could pick up a cheap 100 or 133 pci controller, hook it up and plug the drive into it. (I forget if this is something you have tried)

[Sunuke]

The actual situation is: still got the correctly formatted 200 gig partition from the testcenter on it and started to fill it up. It stopped writing at about 87 Gb with a writing/hardware error. The last three files are unreadable and cost the Pc a considerable amount of time before it reacts again.
I don't want to lose the partition, since I have to bring it over to a friend to get it again now, so I try to figure out what to do without reformatting. If I remember correctly I tried the XP CD booting repair concole to format it and it was the same problem, size and type and all showing up correctly but the formatting process couldn't end without an error and an unusable filesystem.
An extended SMART check with the Seagate's own Disc Wizard showed up a SMART error but nothing more specific, a quick SMART check this morning said everything ok.
None of my friends have a big enough disk to let me try another 135+ drive let alone format it. [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]

All I could say right now is make this the manufascturers problem. Look online if they have a website and if so there must be a support adress. Every device has FCC code and serie number. The manufacturer will know when it has been made.
Explain in your email to them what you have been telling us but also add the codings on the drive, the ones on the sticker.
If they wanna know more then they will let you know and if they won't help you then it's their loss as you most likely never will buy a drive from them

[Stranyr]

Hit Seagates site and get the CS ph#

They will likely talk to you for a bit then tell you to DL a diagnostic utility for the drive ( don't remember where it is or what it's called or I would link it for you )

the diagnostic utility will run a bunch of tests on the drive and return a code, call CS back and tell them the code and they will tell you if the drive it pooched. :)

[trollkind]

thanks for your concern but I already looked up their CS, my model/serial is listed as OEM, that means the store I bought it is responsible for everything concerning warranty. They won't be able to help me technial anyway, I guess. The drive workson others Pc's though I have yet to take it to a friend and fully fill it with data, that will follow maybe this weekend. Now that I know that I'm most probably stuck with the drive and raid working good again, it's not that top priority.
Their Diagnose and Discwizard tool was all over the drive some times already. Most of the time coming back with perfect test results, sometimes it can't complete the check at all.

[Fren]

Sounds like you have a bit of damage in transit Trollkind, did you try to get a replacement drive from the company you bought it from?

Mostly if a hard disk has intermittant fails on format, it means that the controller chip onboard on the disk has either been damaged, or is faulty.

Must admit, i've never tried running anything over 80gb of XP SP1 yet, though NTFS has a much larger limit, 256 Terabytes minus 64kb for some reason, so thats 255,936 Gigabytes (add or subtract a few 0's hehe.. cant remember my conversion tables atm).

It could just be that formatting the disk prior to making the registry changes messed up the sectors. What I would do is firstly to try a low level format (dunno if partition manager will do it for you) It doesn't work at the moment, so nothing much to loose tbh.

If all else fails, return it to the vendor and get a replacement, like I said before, it could bea dodgy controller chip.