When to do the (Adult) Rite of Passage

[Vahrokh]

Heck, my dragon has been lamblasted for saying "Glit'sita nien. Greetings all." on channels other than Dragon chat.

It's the other reason (along with the too small numbers to make me feel in a lively community) why I did not migrate on to Order.

Exactly like in WoW, if you want to be HARD slammed you go on a RP server. The regular WoW server players are just immature and childish, the RP players in there are nasty knowing where to sting. And rigtheous. And will say it's "IC".

If you read the Istaria forums, some of the most monumentally harsh posts come off Order players (along with some of the sweetest, maybe RP people are "extreme"?)

In fact I wasnt even bother by the RP attitudes of the characters about being an under 50 adult, what got to me was the ooc comments. People flat out telling me I dont know how to play because I didnt wait till 50 or I didnt get that scale. The rude tells basically saying Learn too play noob, when I asked an honest question.

I think the ill attitude against "early fliers" comes from the past.

I recall the hot tempers developed on my EU server when some "powerlevel" guilds, under Christmas, would pump 26 (twentysix!) hatchies into RoP *a day*, in batches, like a production line.

That was complete disruption of the atmosphere of the game and around that special event. That pissed off the elder dragons a lot.

[Takora Drakan]

If you read the Istaria forums, some of the most monumentally harsh posts come off Order players (along with some of the sweetest, maybe RP people are "extreme"?)

How does that statement for you look if you change the "Order" word to Chaos or Blight?

Yes, every community has it jewels, but also it's rotten appels. So don't say that only Order players are extreme.

[Shian]

How does that statement for you look if you change the "Order" word to Chaos or Blight?

Yes, every community has it jewels, but also it's rotten appels. So don't say that only Order players are extreme.

Besides, most of us play on multipe servers anyways, so the accusation is moot

[aine]

Unfortunately on Order, most early fliers (myself included) have received negative treatment because of our choice...I was told everything from 'I was not a true dragon for ascending early' to 'I was not worthy to have a mate'. Having dealt with this for such a long period of time is what drove me to almost entirely abandon Order for Blight. I do stop by to say hello to a few friends every once in a while.

Same here. I was completely unaware of what I would be facing, actually, when I accepted the quest. Other quests available at my level had been doable, I had no reason to believe this would not. No kind words of advice, no guidance from those who had traveled the path before me. Just ridicule and mean comments, in and out of character after the fact, and not only by dragons (although, certainly only in Dragon chat). At one point, I was told that, no matter how old I may one day become, I would never be viewed by my community as anything other than a "young adult", never have the respect due a "real" adult. (That last seems to me RP gone awry...especially as it was rendered via an ooc chat and from the mouth of a biped, hehe).

How does that statement for you look if you change the "Order" word to Chaos or Blight?

Yes, every community has it jewels, but also it's rotten appels. So don't say that only Order players are extreme.

I have never played chaos so I can't speak for that shard, but I have migrated to blight and I can assure you that this attitude does NOT exist on Blight. I really persist in believing this to be a RP issue, and one of interpersonal behavior...not game lore, although that may seem to some to be a good excuse.

Oh, and I ascended at 31...two years ago now. Still here.

[pevil2000]

I'm sure I've said my piece before but I'll say it again.

Personally, I think 50 adv is the ideal time (or later) to do it, partly for the scales, partly so you actually can hit some of the stuff yourself I am not going to treat anyone differently depending on the level they become adult but yes, I do admit if I see a level 30 adult I think "oh, one of those". I won't remember by the time they get past 50 at what level they were flying anyway, but at the time yes, I do have a little less... 'respect', for lack of a better word.

I think the thing is while there is no harm or shame in asking for help, the RoP (and ARoP) in this game are supposed to be monumental, epic quests. This is one argument for them not being soloable (unless you vastly outlevel them) but it is also an argument that the dragon should do most of the work themselves, not be standing on the sidelines letting someone else do the work for them. I do view that sort of effort as the equivalent to powerlevelling. I have no problem if that level 30 wants to wade on in and just keep on dying At least they are making the effort. But I remember even at 50/50 I felt kinda useless and relied mainly on my good Ancient and Adult guild mates to take out the big bosses. And I did the easier of the two RoPs.

I also have no problem with a dragon if it is level 30 but an alt of someone who already has an adult dragon. You've done it once, we all know how annoying it can be to level up again; not everyone enjoys the re-levelling process. And of course for those at the other end of the table, that have bothered to level their crafting to be able to do the RoP at a lower adv level, or who are simply good enough at playing their hatchie to be able to solo, well I will worship them! (while I remember to )

[Shian]

I think even the level 100 hatchie still needed help on something.

[Steelclaw]

I tell hatchlings who are considering their Rite of Passage to think about waiting and give them the reasons why. Some of them agree and decide to wait, others are bent on becoming an adult as soon as possible. I don't have a problem with the latter decision, as long as they understand what they're missing out on.

I think part of the conflict around "early fliers" is that some of them are impatient and downright rude. (Think: "I want everything handed to me and done right now so I CAN FLY!!!11!!oneeleventy") The sort of sentiment associated with that type of player is then (unfairly) extended to anyone who expresses the desire to complete their ROP "early".

[Shur]

Originally Posted by Vahrokh View Post
You are right. RoP should become available only if you are 50 ADV and 50 DCRA and playing since 1 month, not within the first 2-3 days of subscribing. I find the "barely legal" power leveled dragons an insult to the importance and life changing event of becoming adult.

this would be a terrible, terrible thing.
I would never have continued with the game if i hadn't been able to RoP my first character before the trial period ended. Because, you know, that's what the trial period is about, play the game free for a bit so you can get an idea of the gameplay. if you cant ascend to adult before your trial expires, you cannot assess the gameplay propperly.

[Dremora]

I'm sure this had been said to death but roleplay-wise, attempting to do the RoP at level 30 is pretty silly considering that you more than likely won't be able to do damage to any mobs and therefore will need someone else to basically do it for you. It's kinda like having someone do your homework for you but taking credit anyway. What I usually do is explain this to new hatchlings, let them know of the benefits of the level 50 scales, etc but in the long run it's their decision and I respect that.

But OOC-wise? Who cares, it's just a game. If you think flying early will make things easier and more enjoyable, like I did (Drae ascended at level 37) then go for it. I say that if someone else is harassing you for being an "early flier", either politely ask them to stop and if that fails, ignore them

[LOVWYRM]

I experienced twice in the last 3 month, that hatchies (about lvl 30) were
"lulled" through RoP. They have not been able to do the easiest craft jobs, and no way able to hit a mob. They even had not done the essential quests.

Why not make having done all quests of the level, and have to do all craft jobs made by yourself a precondition to start RoP?

[Shian]

I love the idea of having all quests done. It's a requirement for AROP, surely there is a way to code in a check to see if you have completed the quests for the level of hatchling present.

[Hraefn]

Then again, I've seen a level 30 hatchling solo the a number of RoP creatures including the enslavers, shadow dragon, and a number of others, so they're not all that useless when it comes to helping take mobs down. :P

Way I see it, if a hacthling can put up with the nagging of others about 'early flying', what he misses out on, etc., then that's entirely up to them and whoever helps said hatchling along. The only sad part about it is that I've lately been warning hatchlings about the verbal abuse they can run into if they ascend at 30ish.

[pevil2000]

this would be a terrible, terrible thing.
I would never have continued with the game if i hadn't been able to RoP my first character before the trial period ended. Because, you know, that's what the trial period is about, play the game free for a bit so you can get an idea of the gameplay. if you cant ascend to adult before your trial expires, you cannot assess the gameplay propperly.

while i also agree not to change the requirements (or perhaps not so drastically... 50 adv would be kinda nice) I do disagree about the trial being a good time to be able to fly. Yes, the trial is to try out the gameplay but the fact I didn't get to fly before my trial was up was one of the major reasons I subbed; I wanted to fly more than anything and hadn't managed it yet! Plus while the flying does of course change things, I don't think it changes it so dramatically that you don't get a good idea of the gameplay.

sorry for the slightly OT hehe

[BrightCat]

Hmm... there are a lot of good points brought up in this. I was one of the ones that did my ROP as soon as I was able, and it was true, I could not do anything myself that involved fighting of any kind. I even had help with the crafting parts, and half the time I had no clue what was going on. However, I have not experienced the harsh feelings of the people who disapprove of ascending early. Perhaps I just got lucky. But who knows what was said behind my back. But Konoc and I got to ascend at the same time so that was pretty cool.

I think that in order to fix this, or a part of it, is firstly the minimum should be much higher. What's the point of having the minimum so low that you can't really do anything at that level? That makes little sense to me.

[Shur]

Plus while the flying does of course change things, I don't think it changes it so dramatically that you don't get a good idea of the gameplay.

no, in retrospect, it doesn't. but i have encountered to many games where partway through there is a fundamental shift towards the worse in gameplay. if this game were going to have one, it would have been after ascending to adult. so i wanted to get to adult before i started paying for it, because i didn't wanna put down for a sub only to find out a week or two later that i can't stand the way adult plays. maybe i'm just weird, but i would not have kept with the game if i were forced to play beyond trial to get to adult. (i did actually go slightly into three weeks before ascending, but because of the whole EI not really caring whether you payed or not, i didn't actually start paying until a week later XD)

[peladon]

Elders and wise.

My words are but the whisper of a forgotten wind. Let them be lost or found as suits the seeker.

Did ever ye watch a candle burn?

Heh… I almost hear the mustered thought and word. What foolishness speaks the Fool _this_ time ?

Fool indeed I be. But… did ever ye watch a candle burn? See… I have set one there before thee. Sit ye a while in this small cavern. Watch the flame dance in the part gloom it parts. And the shadows… why, they dance also! That rock there… see ye how it marks that shape like unto Valkor’s head against the wall? Does he come? Shall we hide? Nay… it is but shadow. And the candle dances and it flicks… and the wax melts. And as the candle dies... the flame that flits doth move also, and as it moves… why, what it lights doth meld and maze. Now, where once we say the Valkor head… now we see a rabbit!

What we see is marked so oft by where we stand, aye and when we stand there.

Well I remember that waking. So many I will never forget… but that one well indeed. And the voice of the gods rang out across the land, and it was Expanse I walked in those days… and the voice spoke that the draku might at long and last seek the skies! For never had we had that seeking ere then… That it would come had been long known and well known… but the when? No indeed…

Aye, and well I remember it. How each and all took solemn stance and common seat, and those long nights we pondered what age best to seek wings, and how it were best done each alone and how…. Heh. Pfah, thrice times pfah, aye and thrice times that pfah times three .

No, that is not my memory. I remember near any drake that could that took foot and ran, not walked, unto the place where the wind might be followed. I remember, if any waited, that they waited only that this companion of long waking or that, or this company, might all seek together. And do I remember this as a matter of the scale-wings alone? Not to any memory of mine… I remember the joy of those of two legs, that the draku might seek this thing. And I remember the common causes that were joined.

I was not of the first to seek wings. Nor yet the last… but there was a company I danced that dance at side and side. And I remember how we took us to the place of the Crystal walker.. aye, no few, not one alone of great season. How we danced that dance long and long to gather the shards of Faces… and the great waking of the Crystal one.

I remember my seeking of Ka. Oh, indeed. No known path to the shorter gain… no great archers or Ancients to gather the Ka Foe outside the Spiral Path… No. I remember the night to this day. How we took long walk across the Blighted lands. How we gathered at the Spiral Gate… not two younglings, or one alone. But a great company. Younglings there were, aye. The Nirl, the Fool… the Colbalt, others. Aye, and the BIGGO that was, and no scales that one bore. And two legs of war's arm and those of Healing... and none of great season as is now. And from that first step to the last, down each twist and turn of the Spiral Path we slew and ran and rended.. aye, and died. And there were no scale-wing then who might wake the dead… but we had two leg friends. And down and down and down and round... And we slew.. and many died and woke, and part way down two new-winged ones dropped from new skies, and I remember their words to this day… ‘ Time to burn hoard, brother!’

But we found that we sought. Ka we found, and all that one's friends. And Ka we slew. WE. And if we did not… or if this one or that did not… then we woke again and we ran that Gauntlet as oft as may be. For _we_ were. Not each one and one… but we were community.

And none counted age or season or skill… for what we did, _we_ did.

And the Cold One and the one that walks the shore… aye, these we did also.

And thus, aye and so also. Are those that cry this season or that, seek this scale ( heh, and that 50 season scale for sure _I_ never sought), to mark those that walked this path less and least, that they did not wait for greater age, that they took two leg aid? Well and all. Least and less I am, and if ye judge me so, then Judged I have been and it is no surprise. But know i am not the only one ye judge...

And ye may say, well and all. That was then and this is now. But this I will say. It is but a cavern of thy mind. And aye, the candle may burn Valkor’s head to the wall this night, and the next, a rabbit. But the rock that casts that shadow... still stands the same.

These wings I bear, that bear me… they remember many things. The BIGGO, the companies… and that night.

So mayhap ye think on this and think long.

Did ever ye watch a candle burn?

My words are but the whisper of a forgotten wind. Let them be lost or found as suits the seeker.


Sephiranoth, called by some ShadowSeeker
Nobody and Nothing ever, save The Five do Feast
A Fool that walks among the Wise

[Oakleif]

I strive to let my words be clear and concise, conveying meaning and helping understanding, yet the Fool puts my words to shame for his are STIRRING.

[LOVWYRM]

Listen to what peladon says, hatchies.
And listen well...

[Kiamarra]

You should not let anyone else tell you when to ascend, and certainly should not hold back for RP purposes unless you want to. I admit I ascended at level 35, and I regret nothing about it. I am a proud ancient now, and I am just as strong as every other ancient out there. The RoP is more fun, honestly, when you have help anyways. Soloing gets boring fast.

The RoP is your choice and yours alone, NOBODY else's. Deside for yourself and do not let other's deside for you.

[pevil2000]

btw sorry for the OT but Kyirra, you're ancient! Congrats