Khutit Form Aesthic-Only Tweak requested.

[CallakDW]

All I can say is you people are lazy.

[Zexoin]

Doesn't it reduce the dragon breath skill to 0 ?

[CallakDW]

Doesn't it reduce the dragon breath skill to 0 ?

No, I've used dragon breath while in kutit form, and hit stuff.

I also want to elaborate why I feel as my last post states:

It seems like whenever I make a suggestion that would add a bit of realism/depth to HZ and it in any way adds an extra step or change to the way crafting has to be done, someone tries to shut it down. I don't believe that lazyness or fear of change is a good reason to not add depth to the game. Heck I have even talked to crafters that do not want to see the water bug fixed because it allows them to make a direct rout trhough some water basin to get to their destination. It's my opinion that by nature dragons should have difficulty using biped machines simply because the machines are not made for them. I know that biped machines have been strategically placed to make it easier to craft, well I feel that the same can be done with dragon machines if it's such an inconvenience.

[CallakDW]

Oh and for those dragons that don't like laberinth lairs, make them simpler! It CAN be done.

[Zexoin]

It's my opinion that by nature dragons should have difficulty using biped machines simply because the machines are not made for them.

isn't that why the machine bonus has been removed from the anvil when dragons are using it ?

[CallakDW]

isn't that why the machine bonus has been removed from the anvil when dragons are using it ?

Yes, but only anvils I believe? Does that apply to essences shapers, scholars desks etc? I must say it must be kind of crouded working in those tiny buildings for a dragon.

[Zexoin]

Yes, but only smelters I believe? Does that apply to essences shapers, scholars desks etc?

well, I think the problem is the bonus is skill-related, so if you remove, say, the smelter bonus for the smelting skill, noone would get that bonus anymore (if I understand correctly). There may be other solutions though, but none comes to mind for now.

[CallakDW]

well, I think the problem is the bonus is skill-related, so if you remove, say, the smelter bonus for the smelting skill, noone would get that bonus anymore (if I understand correctly). There may be other solutions though, but none comes to mind for now.

THe point i'm trying to make is about creating purpose for kutit form again. Most full proof and logical solution in my mind is to make biped shops unusable to dragons alltogether unless they are in Kutit form.

*waits to get litched for this suggestion*

[Zexoin]

THe point i'm trying to make is about creating purpose for kutit form again. Most full proof and logical solution in my mind is to make biped shops unusable to dragons alltogether unless they are in Kutit form.

*waits to get litched for this suggestion*

I understood your point And I agree with it. Reducing crafting efficiency with biped machines when in dragon form is a suggestion that makes a lot of sense. It would be nice to have a dev answer how this could be done.

[Shian]

So anyone without khutit is SOL in this idea huh? I would feel very sorry for those hatchies patient enough to wait till 50 and half the game or those level 100 hatchies.

Oh and for those dragons that don't like laberinth lairs, make them simpler! It CAN be done.

Right, it can be done. At the cost of space. Case in point, I made a new lair in Back Bay using the simplest design possible with all 5 T6 machines. Except.... nothing else can go in there. I can put a vault and a shrine, a few silos. That's it. Tons of wasted space, but at least it is easy to navigate.

If this was my home, I certainly would plan it differently and it would look like a maze because that's just how we have to fit the pieces together. If the lair was any smaller than a 6x5 (and most in Istaria are), the layout would not work at all and you'd be back to the maze just because that's how the jigsaw puzzle of lairbuilding works. If the pieces were not set and we cound choose where the entrances and exits are, I'd be all for this, but as it is, the only way to get all the pieces to fit is to either waste space (money, your subscription fee) or make a maze. I don't think anyone in this game is interested in wasting thier monthly due.

Do you have a lair Callak? I'm curious. Have you built anything on one?

All I can say is you people are lazy.

You're obviously not a crafter. I understand the need for realism, but having to go to a dragon lair (again, how many plots vs. how many lairs?) means a ton of extra travelling. It was my observation that the speed on disks was juist changed to help remove some of this monotony, now you're suggesting to add it back in for the sake of realism?

I understand the need and idea for realism, but as far as game mechanics stand, it would not be beneficial for the game and would undo a lot that was recently changed.

Once you get to a lair that actually has a proper machine, as not only do you need to find a lair with a machine, but you need to find one that has one at the rigt tier, now you need to navigate through the windy maze to get to the machine while bipeds.... get to work on spot.

Let's see... on Order for mithril there is a plot with machines right next to it in Wolf's Paw. Where is the nearest lair with a smelter? Harro? North of Last Stand?

There is time needed to gather a disk full of resources, process it and place it. Then add in the extra travel time.

Multiply that many times over in order to build even one lair chamber.

Let me ask you this, how many fully built lairs are there on your shard? I've counted the ones on mine and there were less than 10 at best when I counted. It took me a full year to build my first one. Most are not so quick though. Now how many full plots can you see?

Originally Posted by CallakDW
Yes, but only smelters I believe? Does that apply to essences shapers, scholars desks etc?

Anvils I can understand. They are not meant to create dragon scales on, but a desk is a desk. They use the same model.

[Wirevix]

Ahhhmmm... yeah. Any suggestion about making biped buildings unusable for dragon crafters, I would have to say, would be a deliberate and crippling nerf to the dragon's side of the building game.

I don't even do lairshaping yet. I'm just working on regular old DCRA. I got up to 60 crafting as a hatchling. If I had to do that by filling up a disk, then running--not even flying--the whole way to a lair that had the machines in it? I would have just skipped it.

Making Khutit form useful would mean taking off the stat debuffs that come with it, that don't make sense anyway. A gnome doesn't get stat debuffs because of their size, and they're smaller than the Khutit. If Istaria worked with size = strength, the debuff would make sense, but it doesn't.

As it is, I'll use Khutit to run around inside New Rachival or Augh, places like that where I'd hit my head on everything if I didn't. But I don't like the model, and I wouldn't like it if you clipped wings on it or anything. It's not a dragon, it's a lizard, and I created a dragon to play a dragon.

I spend a lot of time crafting. To be stuck all that time in Khutit form, well, I may as well go make a Sslik.

[Zexoin]

not asking for it to be unusable, but less efficient.

[Wirevix]

THe point i'm trying to make is about creating purpose for kutit form again. Most full proof and logical solution in my mind is to make biped shops unusable to dragons alltogether unless they are in Kutit form.

*waits to get litched for this suggestion*

I guess you did not read it entirely?

[Zexoin]

Reducing crafting efficiency with biped machines when in dragon form

That's what I'm asking Would actually make the Khutit form more useful.

[Shian]

Why not just get rid of the debuff entirely? What is it for again? If it's so people won't initiate combat in it, I say let them. A part of dragon's strength is in thier ability to remove themselves from combat altogether. Or was there another reason beside the lore attached to it?

[CallakDW]

So anyone without khutit is SOL in this idea huh? I would feel very sorry for those hatchies patient enough to wait till 50 and half the game or those level 100 hatchies.

Hathclings would be exempt, they are not to large to be hindered by being too large.

Right, it can be done. At the cost of space. Case in point, I made a new lair in Back Bay using the simplest design possible with all 5 T6 machines. Except.... nothing else can go in there. I can put a vault and a shrine, a few silos. That's it. Tons of wasted space, but at least it is easy to navigate.

If this was my home, I certainly would plan it differently and it would look like a maze because that's just how we have to fit the pieces together. If the lair was any smaller than a 6x5 (and most in Istaria are), the layout would not work at all and you'd be back to the maze just because that's how the jigsaw puzzle of lairbuilding works. If the pieces were not set and we cound choose where the entrances and exits are, I'd be all for this, but as it is, the only way to get all the pieces to fit is to either waste space (money, your subscription fee) or make a maze. I don't think anyone in this game is interested in wasting thier monthly due.

Do you have a lair Callak? I'm curious. Have you built anything on one?

The easiest way to make it simple is by using halls and lairs as a hub that everything else is attached to. It's not such a waste of space in my opinion, and it's the way my lair is designed, and I love it.

You're obviously not a crafter. I understand the need for realism, but having to go to a dragon lair (again, how many plots vs. how many lairs?) means a ton of extra travelling. It was my observation that the speed on disks was juist changed to help remove some of this monotony, now you're suggesting to add it back in for the sake of realism?

No I hate crafting, and that makes it even more troublesome for me I would think since I dislike doing it, but I still do it because I have things I would like to have that I have to make... solution- use kutit form, this would be your other option if its so incovenient. I just get tired of people that consider an object in the game is nothing more than a node or a machine. It's not supposed to be a node or a machine. It's a deer or a ore exposure or a biped or dragon machine. What it actually is should determine how it behaves, not just be another genaric object in the game.

I understand the need and idea for realism, but as far as game mechanics stand, it would not be beneficial for the game and would undo a lot that was recently changed.

If you did, I feel you wouldn't be arguing these points with me. ANn it would not undo a lot that has changed, people would have to just adapt and find different ways of doing things that make more sense.

Once you get to a lair that actually has a proper machine, as not only do you need to find a lair with a machine, but you need to find one that has one at the rigt tier, now you need to navigate through the windy maze to get to the machine while bipeds.... get to work on spot.

Why do you have to have to find one of the right tier? Are you crafting beyond your ability? I've done plenty of work on my lair, I've yet to be stopped due to not having the correct tier machine to use to build it, and I have a select few I generally use, T4 and below. I simply wait unill I have the skill to use to work on higher level rooms.

Let's see... on Order for mithril there is a plot with machines right next to it in Wolf's Paw. Where is the nearest lair with a smelter? Harro? North of Last Stand?

There is time needed to gather a disk full of resources, process it and place it. Then add in the extra travel time.

Multiply that many times over in order to build even one lair chamber.

You could still use kutit form to do your work. And some adjustments might be made to the debuffs that Kutits get, mabe make them to T&C and Primal alone instead of strength and power or whatever they are now.

Let me ask you this, how many fully built lairs are there on your shard? I've counted the ones on mine and there were less than 10 at best when I counted. It took me a full year to build my first one. Most are not so quick though. Now how many full plots can you see?

Shian, it's Callak... I'm on your shard. And again, you could use Kutit form.



Anvils I can understand. They are not meant to create dragon scales on, but a desk is a desk. They use the same model.[/QUOTE]

[CallakDW]

Ahhhmmm... yeah. Any suggestion about making biped buildings unusable for dragon crafters, I would have to say, would be a deliberate and crippling nerf to the dragon's side of the building game.

I don't even do lairshaping yet. I'm just working on regular old DCRA. I got up to 60 crafting as a hatchling. If I had to do that by filling up a disk, then running--not even flying--the whole way to a lair that had the machines in it? I would have just skipped it.

I didn't say unusable, I said you had to take Kutit form to use them.

Making Khutit form useful would mean taking off the stat debuffs that come with it, that don't make sense anyway. A gnome doesn't get stat debuffs because of their size, and they're smaller than the Khutit. If Istaria worked with size = strength, the debuff would make sense, but it doesn't.

IMO, Dragons get their abilities from what they are, they are changing what they are into somthing else that may not work as well.

As it is, I'll use Khutit to run around inside New Rachival or Augh, places like that where I'd hit my head on everything if I didn't. But I don't like the model, and I wouldn't like it if you clipped wings on it or anything. It's not a dragon, it's a lizard, and I created a dragon to play a dragon.

But you are willing to use biped equipment not designed for you. I think you should have to make a sacrifice to have to use it. That is the "lizzard" form you speak of, simply because the equipment does not accomodate your true form.

I spend a lot of time crafting. To be stuck all that time in Khutit form, well, I may as well go make a Sslik.

What you are saying is you want all the benifits of being a dragon and none of the disadvantages eh?

[CallakDW]

Why not just get rid of the debuff entirely? What is it for again? If it's so people won't initiate combat in it, I say let them. A part of dragon's strength is in thier ability to remove themselves from combat altogether. Or was there another reason beside the lore attached to it?

Or they could just shift the debuff from strength and power to T&C and Primal instead. That way it would not effect crafting, but would affect combat.

[Shian]

Are you crafting beyond your ability?

Of course I am.

I simply wait unill I have the skill to use to work on higher level rooms.

For making T6 structures? There is no "wait till you get better". Lvl. 100 is the best you can get.

But you are willing to use biped equipment not designed for you. I think you should have to make a sacrifice to have to use it. That is the "lizzard" form you speak of, simply because the equipment does not accomodate your true form.

TMK there weren't lairs some time ago, so such wasn't even an option. Maybe it will change once reclimation hits, but I see far too many unbuilt, unused lairs around Istaria. That's less machines, much less machines near crafting areas.

And it would not undo a lot that has changed, people would have to just adapt and find different ways of doing things that make more sense.

You don't think that it's the least bit funny that we get such wonderful changes to speed on our cargo disks only to have to retreat to a dragon lair, now farther away to craft?

What you are saying is you want all the benifits of being a dragon and none of the disadvantages eh?

We already have a disadvantage and a stat decrease on the get go in exchange for being able to fly past any node guardians. You want to add more?

[CallakDW]

Of course I am.

Then no complaining... craft within your ability.

For making T6 structures? There is no "wait till you get better". Lvl. 100 is the best you can get.

Use the modified Kutit form I suggested.

TMK there weren't lairs some time ago, so such wasn't even an option. Maybe it will change once reclimation hits, but I see far too many unbuilt, unused lairs around Istaria. That's less machines, much less machines near crafting areas.

Reclaimation should remedy most of this. In the meantime use the modified Kutit form I suggested.

You don't think that it's the least bit funny that we get such wonderful changes to speed on our cargo disks only to have to retreat to a dragon lair, now farther away to craft?

Again use the modified kutit form I suggested.

We already have a disadvantage and a stat decrease on the get go in exchange for being able to fly past any node guardians. You want to add more?

I never said that.....


[Edit]
Actually what stat decrease are you speaking of?
[/Edit]