Gatherer - The root of all evil

[Mahja]

As a recent returning player...
What is Tannin? (Besides the cryptic "XP by the bucket load")
Where do I get the formulas?
What is the process?
Where is a good place for each Tier?

Tannin is a resource used in for example, making leather armor. There are 2 types. Hide Tannin and Leather Tannin. Hide tannin uses bark + water. Leather tannin uses sap + water. Beginner and journeyman formulas can be purchased from gatherer trainers (and others like tailor and outfitter) with lore tokens. The tools you need are: harvest knife for bark, bucket for water, sap spigot for sap, and brew stirrer for tannin. The machine you use is a distiller. Cargo discs help a lot. I usually fill up a cargo disc with either bark or sap (bark for first half of tier and sap for second half) then fill my backpack with water and go over to a distiller and craft away. Tannin sells well to pawnbrokers. NT is a good place to start for T1 with the cedar trees, a well and a distiller nearby each other. Right now I am working on T2 so I go to Scorpion Island or Abandoned Island for elm then haul my cargo disc to a plot community that has a well and journeyman or expert confectioner shop (for the bonus to skill). I use the map mod for finding resources.

[Mensar]

Something for most everyone that has responded thus far:

Ahh.. tanin is something they can make as gatherers that is more than one component. Definitely have to work on that.

My ignorance for biped is pretty epic here.. Thanks for curing some ignorance on the Tannins.

As far as gathering goes though, it's not working well if, as I said, you're getting just a pittance of the overall exp that other classes get.

I've seen the usual suggestion to bootstrap with the skills from another class. Which is the perfect bandaid.. raise blacksmith to 100 fairly quickly and then use that to raise gatherer or some other class. I don't think that really addresses the issue as far as gathering as an independent class.

Yes, it's a powerful class. But if you think about it... it gives nothing you can't get by raising other much easier to raise classes. And I mean MUCH easier to raise classes. Say.. 10 to 50x faster to raise in almost every case.

I'm not saying make it the same.. because then people would abuse how easy it is to raise gatherer and use it to raise other crafting schools (nobody ever does that with other schools... heh)

I'm just saying it needs some attention on some level because it's not, at all, a viable school by itself. At this point, for me to make ANY headway in raising other schools, I'm going to have to go "forget" the 16 levels of gatherer to bring my salvaging back down so I can go level blacksmith and outfitter for the wood and cloth skills I need. Overall, even with all that work in forgetting, re-raising and everything I'll still be years ahead of where I would be if I stuck it out with gathering.. and that's a sure sign that something is broken.. and we're talking two other schools from zero at least 20 if not 40 in the time (guaranteed) it would take to continue and make 20 in gatherer with the way it is now.

So that kind of cancels out the whole "it's powerful" argument considering you get the same skills (albeit 20% less in some cases) per level in much much much easier to level classes.

Steele: Making spells in order to be a proficient essence structurer.. scholar is what I was talking about and essence shaping is the skill they get.. I can level scholar to whatever I want very very quickly and in a few days become a great essence structurer with the whole "bootstrap" method even though I have never touched essence structuring before. It was just an example.

As far as the "long run" argument. 200 extra skill when you're at 800/900 already? you could have already leveled every other class (17 of them not counting miner which I understand, but haven't experienced personally, is just as broken) to 100 by the time it would take you to level gatherer to a much lower level without some type of bootstrapping. This is a bandaid.

I'm seeing lot of suggestions on workarounds (thanks for those) from very intelligent people. But I'm not really seeing any support for the original posting suggestions. If those aren't what people want to hear (and the class is definitely broken no matter how "powerful" it is deemed to be.. it can be bootstrapped by much easier to level classes, yes. But the neccessity to have that instead of it being an option kills it for a stand-alone class) then maybe someone has other suggestions to bring it up a bit in ease of leveling from "impossible" to "hard"?

Say the "turn in" option where raw materials are turned in for the whole tier instead of just for the first half of it. Or additional exp for turn in quests. Something that won't throw it into disarray for the player that wants to just level it instead of "bootstrapping" it with other easier to level classes.

Again, and I can't stress this point enough, when you can level the other classes to 100 in the time it takes to get to .. maybe 30 in gatherer? It takes away the "powerful" part.. because you can now use those 100 classes to increase gatherer much much faster. So you take away the sovereignty of the class when you dilute it with the cross-ability exp raising (bootstrapping) of the other classes.

The long and short of it.. this needs attention on some level. So I'd love to see some suggestions on what COULD change to make it a better class but wouldn't disrupt the balance now that everyone cured my ignorance on tannins, hehe.

[Valornyx]

. At this point, for me to make ANY headway in raising other schools, I'm going to have to go "forget" the 16 levels of gatherer to bring my salvaging back down so I can go level blacksmith and outfitter for the wood and cloth skills I need.

If your salvaging skill is too high for a class - then equip a bronze salvage awl (or better a training awl - if there is such a beast) - this will cap your salvage and let you get decon xp .. this is a time honored approach for anyone with high levels of Tinkerer which kills the other classes salvage abilities.

Besides - I do not think it is possible to forget a craft school - only adventure ones (may be wrong on that though).

Again, and I can't stress this point enough, when you can level the other classes to 100 in the time it takes to get to .. maybe 30 in gatherer? It takes away the "powerful" part.. because you can now use those 100 classes to increase gatherer much much faster. So you take away the sovereignty of the class when you dilute it with the cross-ability exp raising (bootstrapping) of the other classes.

I think though (and this is my take on it) that it is not supposed to be a standalone / sovereign class ..

The whole point as far as I can see of miner and gatherer is to give you the extra gathering skills that come with high level MIN or GATH if you choose to use those schools to supplement your other ones. Neither of those classes is actually required to build any particular thing (although as pointed out by others, high level crafting may be impeded by just using the base classes (BLK OUT etc..) to gather with. ie "Bootstrapping" is actually intended rather than a workaround to a broken class

Please note - I am not answering your original or subsequent posts directly .. I'm not suggesting that the classes could not perhaps use a looking at.

Rather, suggesting that to me it seems that they are designed to supplement other classes and enhance those rather than to exist as a sovereign class of their own. Individually they are pointless, they are only beneficial if you have another class. But with another class, the extra resource gathering abilities become meaningful for high level crafting.

Maybe this is something to consider - maybe not

As an aside, back when I took Miner to 100 I did it in part for the Standish Deluxe Cargo Disk .. and was privately gutted when they made that available for everyone .. as I felt that the disk was one compensation for all the hard work that had gone into it. Perhaps a new disk for GTH MIN classes only that makes them more attractive again might be one part of the solution (if one is needed).

[Guaran]

The class is not broken. Changes to the way it gets skill, such as granting exp from the actual gathering, would simply be exploited by afk gatherer's mining and deleting. (which could keep resources from others) Removes the time needed to drag the disk of materials. In short, something like that while it seems to make sense simply would be bad. Perhaps the random, ocassional "bonus" exp would be ok (as rare as EoB drops).

The only change I can see addressing your concerns would be a more exp from the trainer quests.

Ultimately, you need to better familiarize yourself with the biped crafting schools http://horizons.gamersinfo.net/schools/schools.php

And then follow our advice. These schools cannot be given exp any other ways than processing or quests because it could be exploited, would be suddenly "too easy", and in doing so impact other crafters IMHO. Another thing these changes would require is overhauling of every single craft school. If miner and gatherer get exp from gathering, then all other shools shouldn't get these skills to begin with really. Also, what would be the reasoning of getting processing skills if the school is a gathering school? They are "Processing" schools first and foremost, even though the names do not infer that.

These are "Prestige" schools (even though as far as I know you can join as lvl 1 with no pre-requisites) and are meant to supplant other schools. On the same character. The way you are doing it with multiple individual toons will ultimately give you a nice advantage. But yeah it might take 3 times as long to level 3 characters vs leveling all these schools on a single character (what you should be doing). No one told you to do it that way. You are going about it completely backwards. You need to learn about it (biped schools) before demanding changes. I do not feel that you have as yet enough experience in these schools to understand them. The ways the skills between schools work together and one school can help another.

I suppose one change would be to require 200 mining before being able to join. Then you wouldn't have been able to get yourself in this "predicament".

Also, miner only gets 8 salvaging skill per level, therefore there is no need to "forget" 16 levels of miner to be able to level blacksmith. BS still gets exp from making tools, weapons etc, and would even still get some exp from making bars. Perhaps not quite as much but this is a small piece of the overall exp pie anyway. BS doesn't get huge exp from making the bars and less than half (likely even less) from the deconning. btw the 160 salvaging will actually be a benefit because while a small reduction in decon exp may be noticed, you will be getting more resources back with which to do your main exp gaining step: make tools.

Leave the miner schools as they are (don't go deleting the toons) and change to blacksmith or outfitter. take those and cleric to 100. make t5 teched crafting gear. Then if you want even more mining skill, switch to miner.

************************************************** ****************

Rule(s) of thumb on exp and leveling biped schools:
It's safe to take to 100, schools that get 8skill/level. Level 91 for schools getting 9 skill/level, and level 80 for schools getting 10 skill/level. This is referring to creation or processing skills only, not gathering skills. The pattern here is stop leveling once you hit 800 base skill cause as you pass that the exp (gained by that skill) will lower in all classes that get exp from that skill. Stop Miner, Gatherer, and Tinker at level 80 until all other desired schools are done. Leave Tinker as the absolute last class. All three of these schools are the slowest to level, think of it as multiclassing for crafters (leveling gets slower the more schools you add, same thing adventurers face due to rating).

The idea is to allow you to level other schools slightly faster, and then later come back and finish off the schools to 100. If you only have 1 or 2 schools you want leveled to begin with then take them to 100 without concern.

Ultimately at some point you do have to take schools beyond that, and even then when say processing metal as 100 black smith/80 miner vs 100 miner, the exp is only reduced by 36.6% (104 exp vs 164 exp per), and thats only the processing exp. (Again, its the smallest piece of the exp pie typically).

Anything else you need to know ask in game.

[Mensar]

If your salvaging skill is too high for a class - then equip a bronze salvage awl (or better a training awl - if there is such a beast) - this will cap your salvage and let you get decon xp .. this is a time honored approach for anyone with high levels of Tinkerer which kills the other classes salvage abilities.

Good idea, thanks.

Besides - I do not think it is possible to forget a craft school - only adventure ones (may be wrong on that though).

Didn't realize that, thanks.

I think though (and this is my take on it) that it is not supposed to be a standalone / sovereign class ..

I guess I would recommend they change it to not be available until a certain point, or just boost the gathering skills for the appropriate classes that actually are related to the making of the items that require them instead of having a separate class.

"Bootstrapping" is actually intended rather than a workaround to a broken class

I don't agree. If a class is given as a class.. it's a class. It should be self-dependent and a complete class. If it's not a complete class, it should be broken up into it's basic skills and placed into other skillsets rather than allowing people to get stuck in this mire that is gathering.

I'm not suggesting that the classes could not perhaps use a looking at.

But that's really the point of this thread, Val

[/QUOTE]

[Mensar]

The class is not broken. Changes to the way it gets skill, such as granting exp from the actual gathering, would simply be exploited by afk gatherer's mining and deleting.

LIke so many other forms of crafting in this game.. the ends have very little to do with the means.. when you can make tools to increase scholar which in turn increases your abilities in enchanter.. very little that you do in a class has to do with how well you do it or how well you'll do at the end product.

I'm not suggesting folks get exp from gathering. I'm suggesting they get more exp from the methods already available.

The only change I can see addressing your concerns would be a more exp from the trainer quests.

Thanks, I agree with that. If that's the only way to get exp beyond processing basic resources, it needs to at least be somewhat competitive with other classes.. not saying 100% of the same exp, but let's look at .. what, 50%? I think 50% would be a good starting place.

Ultimately, you need to better familiarize yourself with the biped crafting schools http://horizons.gamersinfo.net/schools/schools.php

And then follow our advice. These schools cannot be given exp any other ways than processing or quests because it could be exploited, would be suddenly "too easy", and in doing so impact other crafters IMHO. Another thing these changes would require is overhauling of every single craft school. If miner and gatherer get exp from gathering, then all other shools shouldn't get these skills to begin with really. Also, what would be the reasoning of getting processing skills if the school is a gathering school? They are "Processing" schools first and foremost, even though the names do not infer that.

I didn't suggest a change to the way exp is received beyond what I typed in my original suggestion. I never suggested exp for gathering as a skill (or foraging, lumbering, mining, etc). If I gave that impression, I apologize. That wasn't my intent. The ways gatherer receives exp is fine. It just needs to .. well.. my original post has the info, hehe.

These are "Prestige" schools (even though as far as I know you can join as lvl 1 with no pre-requisites) and are meant to supplant other schools. On the same character. The way you are doing it with multiple individual toons will ultimately give you a nice advantage. But yeah it might take 3 times as long to level 3 characters vs leveling all these schools on a single character (what you should be doing). No one told you to do it that way. You are going about it completely backwards. You need to learn about it (biped schools) before demanding changes. I do not feel that you have as yet enough experience in these schools to understand them. The ways the skills between schools work together and one school can help another.

Well.. I'm pretty familiar with the classes. I'm saying thank you to people that give me information because it's much kinder than saying, "I already know that" and they, like yourself, are taking the time to provide what they feel is good information, and I'm always happy to receive it when it's meant with good intentions.

Having said that, I'm pretty familiar with my methodology, I don't take steps toward a goal without planning it out. The point of having 3 crafters at once is to do things 3x as fast and it works very well. Gatherer, having no other class to rely on is going slow, admittedly, but it's not because I'm not doing what I should be doing. It's simply because the class isn't geared correctly for getting exp when it's not being supplemented with other skills as everyone is pointing out which means it isn't working correctly as a class.

Which is why I submitted suggestions to change it.

Leave the miner schools as they are (don't go deleting the toons) and change to blacksmith or outfitter. take those and cleric to 100. make t5 teched crafting gear. Then if you want even more mining skill, switch to miner.

THis is, as I've been saying, the bandaid for the problem. Not a solution. But I understand what you're saying and I appreciate the information, truly! But after seeing what I've gone through on this, I'd really like to see the problem get fixed rather than allowing someone else to get caught up like I have.

But I'd like to know more about how you would change the exp to be more in-line with the other classes based on my original suggestion. Or maybe how you feel the exp on the quests could be tweaked to allow a more fluid and enjoyable experience.

[Mensar]

I tried out the tanins that everyone was talking about.

And.. short of the fact that you can fit more in a disk (even though it's really not any faster to gather) I would say I'm not impressed by the exp.

After two solid hours of doing nothing but leveling gatherer on Cedar leather tanin.. and that's with one person gathering water so the other two could just gather sap even so it was going twice as fast as it would for anyone else.

I netted a total of 8500 exp. Two hours solid.. and that's at double speed with no breaks. I need 14,000 for a level.. so you can't even get a level.. to put it in perspective:

One person gathering Cedar leather tanin components.. let's assume they gather water and tanin efficiently and do so for two hours.. they will make a total of 4250 exp roughly.

That means for lvl 16 it will take them 4 hours of nothing but making cedar leather tanin.. for one single level. And that's considering you save all kinds of time from fitting 1150 units in your disk/inventory vs. 700 for unrefined wood. Of course you lose that time when you consider you have to gather water.

In just about any other class 4 hours of intense leveling (from level one) will easily get you to 20 if not 30 or so even if it's the first class you have ever put your character into - so no bootstrapping there)

So I don't know what the real solution here is guys. My original suggestions stand. I think really one of three things should happen to gatherer:

1. Increase the exp for the gatherer quests since this is really the only viable source of exp for the class.

2. Make "turn in" quests for the raw materials available always not just at the front end of a new tier (the first 10 levels of the tier).

3. Increase the exp for processing materials while assigned to "gatherer" class.

For those that think the class isn't broken. I hate to say it, but this thread isn't for you. It's for suggestions on how to fix it. Let's be creative.. and if you don't want to see something changed, maybe make a suggestion on how it can change in another way to achieve the same end.

This class is broken. There's no way to level it beyond bootstrapping it. Can you imagine how many runs it will take to get from 19 to 20? Probably several hundred.. we're talking weeks of work for ONE level. Anyone out there can say that's not in-line with the difficulty of the other classes. And without the mushroom exploit, those of us trying to level the class the right way through the first tier might be experiencing some imbalances that most of the "older timers" may not have been privvy to.

[Aaelefein]

Well gotta throw in my two coppers...

Sorry Mensar, but I have to agree with everyone else on this.

Believe it or not, miner was I think around the 8th or 9th school I finally started leveling (after all other metal-based schools were lvl 65) then from there I kept them in balance to 100. I didn't bother with gatherer (about 14th lvl 100 craft school) until I already had a 100th level Weaver, Enchanter, and Carpenter; even before that I used the skills from my Blacksmith to take the Spellcrafter to 100 in a couple weeks which rapidly allowed the leveling of gatherer eventually making Yew Boards...which I was able to store for my fletcher and outfitter to level and for my Carpenter when I was working T5 Silos.

I really have to agree with Guaran, Miner and Gatherer really are prestige schools. Except and unless you have an infrastructure already in place where you can store the processed materials your Miner/Gatherer are making...I have never and would never suggest to any player to start with either of those schools until that have one that's at least to Tier 3. Until then, there is really no need to even bother with those two schools...at least in my opinion.

My biggest suggestion, since you are using three PCs...use your Dragon to level your bipeds to 100 adventurer...should be able to do that in a week for each biped alt..preferably a class that get at minimum 9 Armor/Level so they will be able to wear the best armor and jewelry for whatever craft school that are in...I know THAT made a huge difference when leveling my craft schools...as much as +200 skill, or the equivalent to about 20 levels.

Assuming you have structures and seem interested in speed...use your trio of dragons to do the hard work...harvest and store resources for your bipeds to use...they can harvest much faster and move a lot more per trip...you'll be amazed at how fast your bipeds level...I know, I did the harvesting and hauling for my Dragon Treyvan.

Like everyone else though, this is just MY opinion...there is nothing broken that needs fixed for miner/gatherer.

[Aaelefein]

In just about any other class 4 hours of intense leveling (from level one) will easily get you to 20 if not 30 or so even if it's the first class you have ever put your character into - so no bootstrapping there)

Having done them all, and helped various guildmates and other alts...there is only one way to get a new crafter to lvl 20-30 in 4 hours...

1) The best gear right from the get go

2) Massive harvesting and storing of resources by another alt that can to the harvesting and hauling,

3) Requires having a decent support infrastructure in place.

None of these things a starting player would normally have. Want to see what it is really like...start a new biped from scratch and give him the typical help a new player gets...none. You'll be lucky if you're level 10-15 in any school. I nearly quit this game a long time ago, but like adventuring...the first 20 levels are pure hell and it really doesn't get 'easy' for any craft school until you hit T3 (level 40+).

And I noticed several times you seem against the idea of bootstrapping, as if it is a bandage of a broken system. You are moving from Dragon to biped...you can not compare the two. Dragon's can't bootstrap anything really, their best advantage is once they have lvl 100 in either school (I took Treyvan to 100 Crafter before doing adv)...ALL Scale slots are open and can use the best teched scales possible. The point I'm trying to get to here though...bootstrapping is also part of leveling a biped adventurer.

Like the miner can use the blacksmith's smelting skill and ability to say, gather mithril and smelt that for rapid advancement...it is no different than say, a new level 1 druid being aided by the skills of say, a lvl 100 Warrior, or better yet, a lvl 100 Cleric...all the strength and martial skills makes the leveling so much easier. The difference being that the leveling/expereince gain of multiple craft schools is not hindered by the craft rating...only by the current skill.

[Shian]

You know, this isn't the first time you have tried to jump into a prestige class without doing the basics first. Having a hard time, you just declare it broken and that it must be fixed, no matter what other players or devs for that matter try to tell you.

Does the game let you take a prestige class? Yes. You can take any school at level 1. These are the joys of a sandbox. One of the very very few left in existance right now I might add. Should you? Well... your xp gain is giving you a hint that you probably should not be here right now.

In most games, the concept is far more basic (and restrictive) by using branches, trees whatever.
"Okay, which of these 5 do you want to start with? Okay, now that you've mastered that, which of these three do you want to specialize in?" There is no 'bootstrapping' 'baindaid' whatever. It's just how the game works. Basic, then advanced.

Here, we are not restricted to branches and trees. We can two or three of any class we choose. Adventure, basic crafting. There are no prequisetes and I'd prefer it to stay that way. As MY choice on what I think would be fun to level, not what the game dictates.

I'm also getting really confused on the things you're saying. Are there two people using your account or something because you keep contradicting yourself?

1. Give gatherer some type of secondary skill like metalworking or stoneworking or something that will allow them to actually MAKE things.. they get the strong ability to deconstruct things (salvaging I think).. but what good is that if they're not capable of deconstructing anything?

I didn't suggest a change to the way exp is received I never suggested exp for gathering as a skill (or foraging, lumbering, mining, etc). If I gave that impression, I apologize. That wasn't my intent. The ways gatherer receives exp is fine. It just needs to

My ignorance for biped is pretty epic here.. Thanks for curing some ignorance on the Tannins.

Well.. I'm pretty familiar with the classes.

[Vlisson]

interesting discussion
i wonder why the game runs now for 6 years and this is the first time that we discuss the use of the gatherer/miner skill in this way ^^

[Takora Drakan]

Eh no, not 6 years, in december horizons/istaria becomes 5 years old.

[Zexoin]

Hmmm I don't remember GTH/MIN being prestige schools... They have no requirment to join it (or maybe I am wrong, correct me on that.)

Anyway what I would like to see to make those two schools more attractive, is the primary skill system applied on every class.
I find silly to be able to level mason by making bricks and tools, same for fitter, ect..
of builder only get xp from actually building, it would be much more interesting to switch to GTH/MIN for the base ressource processing.

[Guaran]

One good point I think he made was that the quest exp tends to be really a low piece of a level after a certain point, and that a new player 'could' get caught up in this school not really knowing any better. There is a miner trainer on New Trismus who even has some quests.

My Recommendations if Dev's were going to look into the matter:

Possibly examine the exp per quest for the gathering schoolsn and how other schools would get exp doing the same task. For example is a dragon crafter task is say make 50 malachite, the dragon will get a small bit of exp from making the gems, then a more when turned in. This combined amount could be compared to how the miner/gatherer schools work. Truth be told I only did those type quests a few times before realizing it was slow and inefficient way of leveling (I believe the dragon tasks give some exp + tokens). The impression I got from guildies was that was the way to go about amassing tokens for forms. This was games first year, no abundance of techs and forms like we have now. Keep that in mind: the forms/techs for you schools are so much easier to come by these days, be thankful for that. The comparison of exp gained may show they are the same, even identical. If dev's where to change it (more different and varied quests for leveling crafts might be a welcome addition for some players) then they might very well have to change those types tasks across the board for all schools... (Then we start getting into the available dev time for such a project and the return on investment of the time required).

Another recommendation would be to update the chat from the miner/gatherer trainers, especially those on new trismus. Some round about way explain that players will have better benefit of experience if they come back after getting some skills in another craft.... Basically let the player know it usually is better to came back to miner at a later time. (Or simply require 160 mining skill as a pre-requisite, the mining skill a lvl 20 blk should have).

As slow as you have observed these schools being to level, in the end they really are 2 of the most overall useful schools. Therefore I'm not sure they need to level any faster than they currently do.

[Mensar]

Believe it or not, miner was I think around the 8th or 9th school I finally started leveling (after all other metal-based schools were lvl 65) then from there I kept them in balance to 100. I didn't bother with gatherer (about 14th lvl 100 craft school) until I already had a 100th level Weaver, Enchanter, and Carpenter

It would seem, you can't relate to the bad experience rate though if you bootstrapped it. This is what I keep telling everyone. Has nobody tried leveling gatherer without "bootstrapping" from another class? It's not a prestige class as far as I know...

My biggest suggestion, since you are using three PCs...use your Dragon to level your bipeds to 100 adventurer...should be able to do that in a week for each biped alt..preferably a class that get at minimum 9 Armor/Level so they will be able to wear the best armor and jewelry for whatever craft school that are in...I know THAT made a huge difference when leveling my craft schools...as much as +200 skill, or the equivalent to about 20 levels.

As much as I appreciate the recommendation, there are a million things I could do to make this easier for myself. But this isn't about me trying to get to some point in the game, it's about a broken class.

People are saying it's not broken, but can't relate to the root of the problem.

[Mensar]

Want to see what it is really like...start a new biped from scratch and give him the typical help a new player gets...none. You'll be lucky if you're level 10-15 in any school

This is what I did.. dragons couldn't help my biped with logging or with spinning. Kind of why I chose two helpers with gatherer... it's the only class that gets both of those skills.

And I noticed several times you seem against the idea of bootstrapping, as if it is a bandage of a broken system. You are moving from Dragon to biped...you can not compare the two. Dragon's can't bootstrap anything really

And that's exactly why I'm seeing what I"m seeing.. not only as a new biped basically starting over, but also as a dragon-transfer that knows how things should work when you level a class from scratch without using skills from the other.. Heck my dragon is 65 lairshaping and 28 DCRA (which I can't stand).

Just like I only leveled the pre-requisite schools to the bareminimums before I become all 5 crafting schools because I like taking them from zero all the way up. I like building for exp because it's no fun to NOT build for the same exp and somehow make tools for one class and suddenly I'm an excellence builder.. I just don't see how that was meant as a game mechanic.. and no new player will be privvy to that.

[Mairynn Nalnair]

So you can't relate to the bad experience rate. This is what I keep telling everyone. Has nobody tried leveling gatherer without "bootstrapping" from another class? It's not a prestige class...



As much as I appreciate the recommendation, there are a million things I could do to make this easier for myself. But this isn't about me trying to get to some point in the game, it's about a broken class.

People are saying it's not broken, but can't relate to the root of the problem.

The class is not broken the only problem is that you (chose) to refuse to lvl the most effecint way realy not the games fault nor other players

if you wont acccept the help and advice you are given you cant be helped.

there is absolutly no reason to change the game just because you cant be bothered to look into how the game works.

[Mensar]

Wow, didn't expect a personal attack on how I'm posting from you, Shian. But here's my response.


No point in getting involved in a personal attack response.

[Mensar]

Hmmm I don't remember GTH/MIN being prestige schools... They have no requirment to join it (or maybe I am wrong, correct me on that.)

Anyway what I would like to see to make those two schools more attractive, is the primary skill system applied on every class.
I find silly to be able to level mason by making bricks and tools, same for fitter, ect..
of builder only get xp from actually building, it would be much more interesting to switch to GTH/MIN for the base ressource processing.

That's a suggestion! Congrats on being .. I think, the first person to make one!

And I agree, that's how it should be.. if they got rid of gatherer and put the skills in the classes where they should be, or pulled them out of ALL the other classes and made gatherer the only gathering class.. I'm sure everyone would be on-board with the exp increase.

[Mensar]

The class is not broken the only problem is that you (chose) to refuse to lvl the most effecint way realy not the games fault nor other players

if you wont acccept the help and advice you are given you cant be helped.

there is absolutly no reason to change the game just because you cant be bothered to look into how the game works.

Wow!

Well, thanks for your opinion!

I'm not looking for help. I'm trying to fix a problem and looking for suggestions on how it should get fixed. But folks seem they have a bit of changephobia in some cases and are probably looking at it exactly the way you seem to be. If you just do this other easier thing first.. then you can come back and make this easier by doing this.

But that doesn't fix the class.

And that's what this thread is about.