Dragon Idea: Specialization Quests

[Kaerisk]

(Note: this is somewhat similar to another idea of buying skills with exp, but does not require the technology to do that. It’s also a bit more lore-grounded, as that has to do with my background. Disclaimer away~)



A thought came to me. It is well known that for 4225 years, the Academy of Draak tutored and taught hatchlings as they became adults. But what precisely did these dragons teach? In that many years, what actually developed that was lost with the fall of Draak?

Okay, I thought. Let’s look at the dragons that teach hatchlings today (the npcs). So I did – the earlier dragons of course teach all tutorial, which will get you up to level 10ish. You then learn, through Gerix, that there are many specialized skills that a dragon can use! And each has a trainer associated with it, who teaches this ability when a dragon is proven worthy!

Why stop there?

At current, dragons all get these abilities and dragons use all of these abilities. This makes dragons very same-y. Yes, there are helians and lunus, and spellcast-y and melee-y dragons, but they’re all basically the same. Same skill sets, same possible outcomes, no differences. Specializing with classes might make them too biped like, and make it difficult for balancing the quests and hoard abilities. And the old forms idea is just bizarre. But why could we not specialize with certain abilities?

What if the trainers are not the ones who developed the skills? What if they are the only survivors of teachers that have passed these skills down through the ages, of specialized dragons who focused on one or two or even three of these sets? If we look at it that way, the possibilities suddenly become wider. We could have a reaver-like dragon, who by taking quests deep into the specialized drain-strike pool, are able to bolster their power with melee and ranged siphoning attacks or blows that sap strength or other attributes! We could have healers who focus, through specialization quests, on giving primal essence to mend and close the wounds of their kyn, in area effect and in primal augmentations! We could have haughty hoard dragons, specializing through Winteria in berserker like attacks that burn through hoard but can cause great damage in melee, or… The possibilities are incredibly open.

This fits into a lore idea of mine called, for lack of a better term, a Community Rite, which would have had the dragon complete a series of trials to become specialized to some role in dragon society. Clearly, roles must have existed in some degree – dragons are not completely individualistic if they are forming race-nations and faction-clans!

I know what I am suggesting will not be easy, but it is doable. It might require more quests on the order of magnitude of the Rite of Passage. It would require a supreme balancing act and the ability to turn off one quest if another is being or has been taken (which seems to exist since the dragon quests only allow one at a time). It would require looking at quests a little differently than they currently are, with instead of being one choice (Rite of Passage Helian/Lunus choice) for a quest tree, there being several possible trees that eventually nix each other out to enforce specialization. It may require some new technology that allows for quest-granted abilities to be unlearned and quest lines to be reset (unless we want the choice to be permanent, like Helian/Lunus, which would be fine in my opinion). It would require Gold Rage to be nerfed a little, to support the new damage/utility of the specialized abilities. It would require all specializations to be available in one patch, so to not draw ire from players who feel cheated by a new great idea that gets implemented. And it would most certainly require an anal retentive attention to balancing in the development phase.

But all of those things are doable with enough time.

I’d really like some dev input on these ideas before I go any further. This is peeking into a second page and I don’t want to spend more time on an idea that is deemed too impossible.

I’d also like some other player feedback on this – think about the dragon trainers we currently have for adventure – reach, drain strike, instant heal, etc – and think how you might want to specialize your dragon if you could only chose one or two that you’d want new and unique skills to augment your dragon. You could even give some suggestions on what those skills would be if you like, but be sure to link it to a dragon trainer who already teaches one of the dragon skills.

Thank you for your time.

[aine]

I would like to major in Lazing.

And, when I wake up...I think it would be fun to perfect my skills at melee. I don't mind burning hoard (*holds her wings over Callak's earfins*), and I would LOVE to storm in there and smack some...well...I'd love to tank more effectively. *Smiles sweetly*

I like this idea, Maekrux.

[Dragonboy]

First of I believe that this additional training should only be able from a moment that a hatchling is “old� enough to be able to make a choice about specializing himself. So I am inclined to simply state that it must be around lvl 30-40 or after finished RoP.

Start of the quest could be the Historian and I do believe that the choice Lunus/Helian should remain. Both are completely different from a “political� standpoint and shall always remain like this. So no resetting quest stuff, you made a choice when you were a hatchling after reading the stories the Historian told you and you should stick by this. I know some only take Lunus because RoP can start sooner but point 1 that would be their problem and point 2 there is no mayor difference apart from passive stat increase after RoP and probably ARoP.

I would not think its needed to implement new abilities (maybe for ancients, but they already have flame burst).
Personally I would choose for a passive ability and no strength or prima stats increase, real extra damage/healing bonus.
1. Casters (Grizelian the Primal Master)
2. Melee (Periado the Tooth and Claw Master)
3. Healers. (Lomak the Healer Master)
4. �Tanks�. (Zebegina the Scale Hardener / Rykhar the Spiked Scales Trainer)

My idea of a Caster would be:
1. Passive ability which increased damage similar to Primal Damage.
2. (Open to suggestions)

My idea of a Melee would be:
1. Passive ability which would increase damage done by a dragons abilities Ravage, Silver Strike, Gold Rage, Drain Strike, ect. (not Galewind) (damage reduction of Gold Rage is not bad idea as long as hoard cost would also go down and overall dps does increase when specializing for melee)
2. Make Tail Whip have an area range so you can hit multiple enemies.
3. Make Breath of Fire and Ice have an area range so you can hit multiple enemies.
4. (Possibly) Damage increase for “Damage over time� for Bite ability.
5. (Open to suggestion)

My idea of a Healer would be:
1. a higher passive bonus similar to the ability we already receive through healer master quest (perhaps trough additional quests).
2. a decreased timer for Instant heal and Primal Rebirth abilities.
3. maybe use of some biped healing spells (or dragon created variations usable only by Dragon Healer).
4. Increased Health through passive ability / dragoncrystal.
5. (possibly) Increased Armor through passive ability / dragoncrystal.
6. (Open to suggestion)

My idea of a Tank would be:
1. Passive ability for Spiked scales which as Ancient would do more damage than Spiked scales or biped spell variations (IMHO This would result in losing the Spiked scales ability as we use it now and biped spells should not be allowed to work since a passive ability is in use).
2. Increased Armor through passive ability / dragoncrystal.
3. Increased Resistance to various types of damage through passive ability / dragoncrystal.
4. (possibly) Increased Health through passive ability / dragoncrystal.
5. (Open to suggestion)

Personally I think it would be good that you must choose between Caster and Melee, as separate specialization I would suggest either Healer or Tank.

Some passive abilities might even be places instead on a attuned on received dragon created crystal in combination with Memni the Augmentor, I can imagine that only having the Lasting Ember quest is kind of boring for him. Personally I would love to get additional quests from him.

This would allow for plenty of variation in play style I would believe.

[LaughingOtter]

It is well known that for 4225 years, the Academy of Draak tutored and taught hatchlings as they became adults. But what precisely did these dragons teach? In that many years, what actually developed that was lost with the fall of Draak?

<Snip>

What if the trainers are not the ones who developed the skills? What if they are the only survivors of teachers that have passed these skills down through the ages, of specialized dragons who focused on one or two or even three of these sets?

That question has not entirely been answered and set in lore, but personally I think that's probably close to what happened. Periado, just as a side note, was appointed to his position by Malganival Lunus himself, well before Draak was lost. (At least, I think it was Periado..)

Did dragons have greater power in the past? Without a doubt. Could some of those lost skills be rediscovered? That remains to be seen.

[Favoran]

Specialization is a good idea if it's done correctly. For me personally, I'd rather follow a general route than be forced down one set path of combat style simply because I wanted to at one point in time. For example, my dragon is Lunus, but by the time I was around 80 or 90 adventure I started playing with spells more, and now he's a hardcore spellcaster. I can't go back and change my faction (which I chose ENTIRELY for combat purposes, thank you very much Dragonboy ) even though ICly my dragon behaves more Helian anyways (and loves crafting over adventuring, to boot!).

Anyways, my point is to NOT make any kind of specialization permanent. Other than that, it's worth looking into.

[Avalina]

I am all about these ideas! It would be great if we could make our dragons a little more diverse instead of the cookie cutter builds we have running around now. I'd love to make Avalina into a tank and just plow through enimies and brush damage off like its no big deal when there's a dragon healer pumping life back into me with some dragon sized spells. Don't get me wrong, biped spells are great and all, but not every dragon (Lunus) will want the help of a biped, plus I'm sure it gets tiring for a little two legger trying to keep up with a dragon who has their wings. Anyhow, I'm rambling. I think this is a great idea and I hope something can be done with it in game!

[Deth]

Anyways, my point is to NOT make any kind of specialization permanent. Other than that, it's worth looking into.

Personally I think some Specialization should be permanentor very very hard to change.

[Kaerisk]

I like your ideas Deth, but the one thing that I am trying to avoid is the idea of "tank"/caster/healer/melee etc if I can help it. I'm trying to more dragons more unique than that, I suppose.. Let me detail a bit of what I had in mind.

The system would look something like this:


-------------------------------
Example Dragon Path
Hatchling............ Drain Strike Tier 1

Adult ................................. Primal Healing Tier 1

Ancient............... Drain Strike Tier 2

At X level as a hatchling or older, you could have your first choice of specialization. You would go to say, Severant and say, hey, I want to learn more about this draining of enemies thing. He sends you on a quest to Mt. Doom and back, and when you return he teaches you a fancy new ability. Let's say this ability is Void Claw - an attack that cuts the prime directly so that the nearby energy floods into the hole for the dragon to then use. (IE, a short distance area syphon, as an example).

At Y level as an adult, you are able to go to Severant again and get the second tiered specialization, or you could go to another. Let's say you want to be a healer this time. So you go to Lomak or Frall or whoever, and you say, hey, I want to specialize in this healer stuff. So he sends you to save Narnia and when you return, you get the first tier ability from the healers. Let's say this is Healing Rain - a primal storm that infuses the target with primal healing energies that slowly tapper off as they soothe wounds. (Again, example ability, medium target heal +short duration heal over time.)

Okay, you're ancient. You're the baddest ancient out there. And you think, I tried the healing thing, now I want to drain more critters of their health. So you fly back to Severant and say, I want to specialize more in drain strike. So he gives you the second tier quest, and you go and defeat the Horde and come back and he gives you the second tiered ability: Soulstrike, a hoard-using mid-to-high attack that does ethereal damage.

-------------


Now under this system, you'd only have 3 new abilities as a dragon. But the number of combination would be staggeringly high - we have 12 trainers: meleex2, primalx2, healingx2, reach, drain strike, scale hardener, spiked scales, gold rage, and accurate breath. We can eliminate the doubles of the first three, leaving us with 9. Under this system, there would have to be 21 new abilities added, which would be about as many or a little more than a new class. However, we would have many, many possible dragon types based on the various combination.


That is sort of what I was envisioning.


As to Laughing Otter's statement, it is my supreme hope that dragons will regain their lost prestige and place in Istaria. And could those skills be recovered? Well clearly they already are... we did just get Promote Intellect, after all.

[Guaran]

I think if any ancient specializations ("classes") come along, that the player can choose to change schools at any time, multiple times. This is how existing multiclassing works. You can play for a year as a mage and change to warrior when you /get bored/get an itch/want to use an axe instead of a staff/insert any number of other possible reasons here/.

I can't think of any reasons Dragon schools should be any different.

[Zexoin]

I think if any ancient specializations ("classes") come along, that the player can choose to change schools at any time, multiple times. This is how existing multiclassing works. You can play for a year as a mage and change to warrior when you /get bored/get an itch/want to use an axe instead of a staff/insert any number of other possible reasons here/.

I can't think of any reasons Dragon schools should be any different.

Because that wouldn't be changing school, but specializing in the existing one.

[Guaran]

Because that wouldn't be changing school, but specializing in the existing one.

Specializing = Prestige school in my mind.

Prestige schools can be changed ad infinitum in existing multiclassing. Reasoning still applies.

Hasn't everyone already learned that the "forcing" of a combat style based on the political factions was a huge mistake? Granted, players will now know ahead of time what the school entails in a general sense, but as far as combat usefulness that will remain to be seen until someone takes each path and reports.

I still cannot think of any logical reason whereby a combat specialization should be a permanent, unchangable decision.

If Vitrium wants to give players alot more to do, multiclassing for Dragons would be exactly that.

[Zexoin]

I wouldn't want to see my dragon becoming a biped with wings, though :/

[Kaerisk]

Well, admittedly the specialization quests would be easier to handle without being able to re-specialize. I think that Guaran has a point though - this solution by itself does not add a whole lot of content for elder dragons without the ability to re-specialize. It is possible that it might be added later, or perhaps the technology already exists. And I think that even if we can re-specialize, that doesn't mean we'll become like bipeds - it's still quite different from the biped way of things. It gives players more choice... which from a purely game standpoint, makes a lot of sense.

I want dragons to stand apart from bipeds and I feel that these specialization quests are a step in the right direction.

[SinOfSuns]

To be honest, I feel that the distinction you have drawn between multiclassing dragons and specialization of dragons is different only in name. Being different classes refers to having areas of specialization, and class-specific abilities; both things you have described in your above posts. The only real difference I can see there is that you're suggesting a more limited version of dragon multiclassing, with abilities being modified or changed instead of an entirely new moveset.

The point of the matter is that it still sounds like dragon multiclassing. One of the things that drew me to being a dragon initially (because I knew it would be a LONG time before I reached adulthood and thus flight was out of the question) was the fact that dragons did not have classes and instead fought naturally, using the weapons they had that came inbuilt. Thus, I would not want to see dragons gaining areas of specialization which create exclusive abilities that only certain types of dragons can use.

Your idea COULD work on the basis that all dragons could get all abilities - just like they do now. That way, specialization would be dependent on which move sets a particular player liked to use rather than which specialization school (read: class) that they picked. In other words, all I'm really suggesting is that there are new abilities added - ones which aren't heavily damage-oriented like Gold Rage is, and with different effects.

Doing this would not break gameplay and also open up new areas for dragon specialization, without going so far as to create unique categories which dragons must the ascribe to (aka classes). I have always thought that Helian dragons should have a fair bit more ability in healing spells, for example. While admittedly, we don't want to create a dragon healer class, I don't see anything wrong with dragons who are good at healing other dragons. It makes sense, because Helians study heavily the primal energies that give dragons so much of their power, so why shouldn't they know how to use those abilities to speed healing and remove nasty effects? (Techs can do this, but that's not the same as having an actual restorative spell...)

So yeah... expanding on the current moves list and abilities of dragons seems like the perfect compromise to me. We just don't want to fall into the trap of creating exlcusive moves and abilities that one class or the other can't use...

Edit: I think the devs are already working on this, judging from the Gold Burst thread. I was going to say that originally, but I forgot XD

[Deth]

With Gold rage and Gold burst they are going towards a linked timers so you will have both but can only use 1 at a time. So going that why may be a better way of having dragons specialized.

[Kaerisk]

Your idea COULD work on the basis that all dragons could get all abilities - just like they do now.

In other words, leave things as they are now. Dragons don't need to be glutted with new abilities when we have our ezbutton, honestly.



Actually what this boils down to? Talents. It's not multiclassing, but it is rather similar to an unnamed 800-pound gorilla. Not about to ask for that system be put into place, so I tried to make it an Istarian compromise. Apparently, not a particularly good one.

Well. I'll try again next year.


::busily casts promote intellect on everyone::

[SinOfSuns]

In other words, leave things as they are now. Dragons don't need to be glutted with new abilities when we have our ezbutton, honestly.



Actually what this boils down to? Talents. It's not multiclassing, but it is rather similar to an unnamed 800-pound gorilla. Not about to ask for that system be put into place, so I tried to make it an Istarian compromise. Apparently, not a particularly good one.

Well. I'll try again next year.

::busily casts promote intellect on everyone::

:P Hey well it's only my opinion. I'm not the dev team, though, so they may see things differently...

[Romirez]

i would like the option of specializing. it's a good idea.

[Zexoin]

I forgot to say in my above posts that I like the idea too x3

[A'Sasha]

I also think this is a really good idea