Role Playing Policy - Enforce It or Remove It

[Wirevix]

I have played on Order for quite some time. Yes, there've been breaks in it, but I've still been around awhile. I'm certainly no instrumental member of the community, and I've definitely not been an exemplary member in all my time on board. I've done stupid things, made mistakes, broken rules, all of that. But I've tried to retain some sense of respect for my fellows at least most of the time, to keep ahold of at least a shred of civility for other players on the shard.

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to matter anymore. Dragon Chat, as I'm sure's been made known numerous times, has sort of devolved. There was always some OOC chatter, to varying degrees, in it--I suppose it's inevitable in a public chatroom. The chatter itself doesn't really matter, it's only a symptom of the issue at hand.

There is a Role Playing Policy file posted up on play.istaria.com. Some may not know of its existence, but it's there. It has a naming policy for characters created on the Order shard, and it has a Communications policy for how folks on the shard are supposed to talk in public channels. I don't think there are too many who deny its existence or what it says outright.

However, probably thanks to the placement of this document on an almost-defunct website, its location in a big list of other items where it is unlikely to be read, and its lack of mention in any other document pertaining to Istaria, the Role Playing Policy has since come to be regarded as just so many meaningless words.

It is treated as a "suggestion" at best, or outright irrelevant at worst. If you bring it up, the response will be "It's not in the ToS or EULA, so I don't have to listen to it." You may also get "It's many years old, there's no new one available, so it must be outdated." You may also get harassed in /tells after you've left the channel, because the players are so adamant about telling you how worthless this document is.

Order, at least in regards to Dragon Chat, has thusly changed from "Role Playing Shard" to "Kind of, sort of, more Role Playing than Chaos Shard." After all, the only evidence that remains that role-playing is supposed to be enforced on it is the little note by its name.

If Order is still intended to be a role-playing enforced shard, the Role Playing Policy ought to be brought back into full notice and made deliberately "official" in players' eyes. It ought to be given its own mention in the ToS and placed on the Community Site where people can easily find and read it.

If the Role Playing Policy is to be left to molder and waste away with the rest of the play.istaria site, then I suppose the public channels of Order will continue to be what they are--a place where the roleplayers are competing with discussions of energy drinks or system specs, and anyone who says different is chased out as quickly as possible.

This thread is in Rants because I made it to clear my mind. There was no way for me to calmly and constructively make a Suggestion thread for this. If someone else thinks I'm not speaking crazy talk and is more capable of being calm about it than I am, I implore you to make a legitimate Suggestion thread, because the Role Playing Policy deserves to be made official.

As it is, I'm almost considering just leaving--Order or Istaria, I don't know which--because I feel like I've lost my home. I don't know if I can adequately express how miserable these events have really made me. It's like a group of friends I knew and loved have turned on me because I can't even show up in public for fear of attacks anymore.

[Vaz]

I agree.

The document may as well be deleted. Virtrium will never enforce it. I dare a Vi staff member to contradict that statement with a straight face.

[Raptress]

Public channels have a lot of players in them. That in and of itself makes it hard to enforce a strict roleplaying policy within them. Most everyone on the server is not IC all the time, some players aren't IC at all, and still other players do not really know how to RP [no offense to anyone, but there is a right and wrong way to do it.]. Where do these players all come together? In public channels. Istaria's population of players is so low that public channels are really the only place to meet a good number of people at once. A fair amount of OOC is, as I see it, inevitable.

The only public channel I hang out in is Dragon, and it has always had a balance of OOC and IC chatter in it for as long as I've been in it - a little over a year. I don't think making the policy more "official" is going to do anything. And this is totally beside the fact that, as I've heard it, the Dragon channel itself was not a public channel when it was first created. It was made public, after the merge, I believe.

Besides that, public channels are really not a good place for RP. There are often too many people to make a cohesive, in-depth RP viable. The only thing I find Dragon useful for IC-wise nowadays is catching up with events in general in light RP and setting up for more in-depth out-of-channel RP. All of my serious RP takes place in private channels, tells, or local nowadays.

There. That's my opinion on the matter. Public channels of 20-odd players are ill-suited to anything but light RP, and really, most RP in Dragon happens between two or three people, with others RPing in other similar small groups. This means that it would in fact be much easier to take the RP to private channels, as OOC chatter often involves many more people than any given individual RP in the public channels.

The OOC chatter doesn't last forever either. When a topic is exhausted, the OOC dies down. If there was RP going on during the OOC, then it generally continues. But sometimes, the only thing going on in Dragon is the OOC. OOC is inevitable, and the most likely place for it to show up is in a public channel. As long as it's marked, I really don't mind it at all. It's only as annoying to me as watching an unrelated RP being done in the same channel.

Please understand that this is not an "attack." It is simply a differing opinion.

[Tcei]

Perhaps a dev should correct me if Im wrong but, last I understood all global chat channels are ooc, except for the one titled role-playing. They were ment more as a way for players to chat and communicate with each other as the playerbase tends to be very spread out. While rp does happen its not reqired for the global channels, and I for one dont want to see it happen.
Just imagine how awful it'd be if you're a newbie and get reported because you asked an ooc question in dragon chat. Double so if it was because you forgot to use brackets.

Now if these things are happening in regular say then yes it should be enforced. But the devs/gms cant enforce it if noone reports it. Same with the naming policy.

[Wirevix]

Tcei, your opinion is the general opinion in DC nowadays--that is, that the Role Playing Policy and what it says is not actually any sort of official rule. The Role Playing Policy is where it's said that public channels are meant to be IC, and OOC discussions are intended to occur elsewhere.

So I guess a dev wouldn't correct you, since as it is, it seems that the Role Playing Policy is being discarded so that it dies with the old play.istaria site. No new guide for Order behavior has been written, and there's no sign that they'll hold onto the old one.

Eventually I guess Order would just end up as "Normal Shard #2." Because the OOC has not been receding.

[velveeta]

not playing on the rp shard, i really can't comment on this matter, except that i feel:
1) peeps creating characters on a rp shard should expect to be rp'ing for at least 90% of their time ingame. what's the point otherwise? ooc convo should take play only in ooc rooms. if you are in the rp room and need help, i would expect that you would do so in character or take it to one of the ooc rooms. any non rp, irrevelent chat does not belong in a rp room.

2) the current rp policy - outdated or no, updated or no, anticipated to be changed in future or no - should be enforced. if someone feels there has been or is continueing to be a problem that touchs on the current policy in place, they should submit whatever process in place to address such things.

3) no one on any shard, but especially the rp shard, should be harrassed or made to feel uncomfortable for stating their feelings. this behavior, to me, requires contact with the devs for resolution. peeps who harrass other players are never welcome or should never be tolerated.

[RuneDragoon]

Tacked a link to this document on Tales of Order, for reference.

[LOVWYRM]

To be honest: I do not quite understand what prob we are talking about here

And Vel: I disagree with you here: Most of the Unitarian players who had chosen order as their new home had other reasons than rp: The community at first place, available plots second place. And some other reasons.

I dare to state, that Unity players have always been semi-roleplayers.
We were used to the practice, that if rp was going on, you can join if you like- or not if you do not feel in the mood. That had never been a prob.

There are so many (too many?) chat channels on order.
We all have the choice which ones to join.
Is it really not possible that all find a channel that satisfies the demands and needs of everyone? I really do not understand why this seems to be impossible.
Do we really need all that drama?

[awdz]

from what i have seen, most rp enforcement has been from players requesting other players stop ooc'ing.

generally speaking, if it is not from or about istaria specifically (e.g., other games, rl stuff such as music, sports or politics) and i notice it, then i would either send a tell or say something in the chat (hopefully politely enough that they don't take offense). if they blatantly refuse to keep it "in istaria", i would report them, complete with log to show how bad it was.

with all the different rp styles out there, as long as it is "in istaria" (e.g., technical questions), i don't worry about it. that approach seems to work in marketplace; would it work for dragon chat too?

[ScaleIron]

While I agree that there is quite a bit of OOC on the Order shard, I don't think it's anything to get worked up over. I have no problem with it, as long as one player isn't attacking another, or making assumptions/jumping to conclusions/putting words in someone's mouth/throwing around insults and pointing fingers. As mentioned before, there are other people that either a) don't RP at all, or b) don't know how to RP. Raptress is right, there is a right and wrong way to it. I have seen some players make a lot of improvement in their roleplaying, though.

That doesn't mean other players need to be sending tells and harassing anyone.

OOC is bound to happen. And sadly, it's about the only interesting thing going on in DC these days. I've tried getting involved in some of the RPs that happen there before, and have gotten ignored or even told "you can't, cause we're not in earshot" even though I'm obviously watching it. So if I RP there, it's not often and it's usually very short; it's a starting point for me, and anything serious is taken out of DC so it can't be butchered. I won't take part in any serious RPs in DC, because it's irritating to me to have a mob of other people jump in on it. It usually ends in it being a big confusing mess and leaves me very annoyed. So, I use it to either help new players (who usually won't know anything about the brackets for OOC talk), to get ahold of the few people I do RP with on a semi-normal basis, or use it as something to keep me entertained while I'm crafting. I RP in local or in tells (if I have to), DC just isn't a good place for it.

[Tcei]

At no point did I intend my post to say that the old rules should be done away with and rp shouldnt be enforced at all. I really shouldnt post when I have less than 2 minutes to rush out the door for work.

What I meant to say was that from what I've been told over the three years that I've been here is that the global channels were officially considered ooc, but this is what players who've been around since the begining have always told me, not what a dev has said. So I was kinda hoping for some sort of offical responce to clarify that.

If this is true then rping on the global channels considered acceptable, but not required, similarly ooc should be acceptable, with or without the brackets most of us use as a courtesy, if not expected. I also have to agree with Raptress that gobal channels arent the best place for serious rp, IMHO they're better suited for lite rp, or as a spring board to invite others into your more serious face to face rp.

Also, if this is true, rp should be enforced when it comes to /say and /emote as should the naming policy. However we cant expect the Devs/gms to divinely know when someone half way across the world /says somthing ooc, thats why we have to police ourselves and report violators. Just please dont go to the extremes that I've seen in other games and report someone because they /said afk a sec, stove on fire. When rping with a small group locally.

[peladon]

Elder and wise

My words are but the whisper of a forgotten wind. Let them be lost or found as suits the seeker.

I have played on Order for quite some time.

Many there were and some there are that may speak the same. It may be that the eyes of others see me as one.. it may not.

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to matter anymore. Dragon Chat, as I'm sure's been made known numerous times, has sort of devolved. There was always some OOC chatter, to varying degrees, in it--I suppose it's inevitable in a public chatroom. The chatter itself doesn't really matter, it's only a symptom of the issue at hand.

For the place ye speak of, and the voices there, i cannot speak. It is... not a place I choose to walk.

There is a Role Playing Policy file posted up on play.istaria.com. Some may not know of its existence, but it's there. It has a naming policy for characters created on the Order shard, and it has a Communications policy for how folks on the shard are supposed to talk in public channels. I don't think there are too many who deny its existence or what it says outright.

However, probably thanks to the placement of this document on an almost-defunct website, its location in a big list of other items where it is unlikely to be read, and its lack of mention in any other document pertaining to Istaria, the Role Playing Policy has since come to be regarded as just so many meaningless words.

It is treated as a "suggestion" at best, or outright irrelevant at worst. If you bring it up, the response will be "It's not in the ToS or EULA, so I don't have to listen to it." You may also get "It's many years old, there's no new one available, so it must be outdated." You may also get harassed in /tells after you've left the channel, because the players are so adamant about telling you how worthless this document is.

Order, at least in regards to Dragon Chat, has thusly changed from "Role Playing Shard" to "Kind of, sort of, more Role Playing than Chaos Shard." After all, the only evidence that remains that role-playing is supposed to be enforced on it is the little note by its name.

If Order is still intended to be a role-playing enforced shard, the Role Playing Policy ought to be brought back into full notice and made deliberately "official" in players' eyes. It ought to be given its own mention in the ToS and placed on the Community Site where people can easily find and read it.

If the Role Playing Policy is to be left to molder and waste away with the rest of the play.istaria site, then I suppose the public channels of Order will continue to be what they are--a place where the roleplayers are competing with discussions of energy drinks or system specs, and anyone who says different is chased out as quickly as possible.

Wise one... the words ye speak are indeed words that, to some eyes and ears may hold wind's strength. To others... well and all. As each eye sees it, so let it be to that sight. There have been more times than one that words I have spoken have been ill received by those that are forced, by that very speaking, to endure them. But... that which I am, I am. And yet, in those very words, lies quandary. For that which the land is, it is.

The land is no fixed thing, do ye see? Or at least.. not to my own poor eye. Those that were there may go, those that were not there may come. And those that are, in a sense, are indeed the land. Even as my kind must shift wing to the wind as the wind itself dances, and thus dance themselves if they wish to fly, then there is that wind dance which is the land.

But who am I to speak so? For there are those that may tell ye that mountains may fall to dust ere Sephiranoth's nature changes one grain of that sand. And if they see it so, then for them it is so, for... as each eye sees it, so let it be to that sight.

The land is the land, and I will be a part of the land so long as the land is there to be a part of. And if I am more silent these tides, then it is because I would not offer offence, and some are offended when I speak. It is because, mayhap, that there is little purpose to my words, and less to my nature. but that does not cause my nature to cease to be.

That which I am, I am. Silent, or less so, my being is mine. And my being...

Is of Order.


Sephiranoth, called by some ShadowSeeker
Nobody and Nothing ever, save The Five do Feast
A Fool that walks among the Wise

[Shian]

Well, how DO you enforce the RP policy, anyways? (Is there one?) Everybody RPs differently.

I did take a break from the game due to RL issues for about a month, now upon my return I find I have no wish whastoever to join RP in Dragon. It's too difficult.

The current RP in Dragon is not what my view of Istaria is (as was stated by someone else, everyone has to have mystical powers, etc).

I don't ENJOY struggling to keep Shian as Lore-centric as I can and just be what my view of a regular Istarian dragon is when seemingly everyone else wants to be Mary Sue with powers they've made up and I now have to conform to and entertain these magical powers or don't join.

Hence my opening question.

As there is no "right" or "wrong" way to RP, so what part of it is supposed to be enforced?

I stay in dragon for what minor OOC chatter is about. Helping answer questions about mobs, scales and so forth. Should that too be not allowed?

[Deth]

I agree. I am an Istaria Dragon, Not a Star dragon or any of the other things I have seen in there. I have no problem with them being that but do not expect me to rp That way. I RP that I sleep and wake in other worlds but that does not impact anyone one else RP. I also do OOC help in the channel but try to crouch it in RPish terms.

[Frith-Rae]

First off - If the devs of Istaria acually enforced any "Rping" policy they'd be the first MMO game to actually do so...so that rant applies to every other MMO game out there... (and you get back to the problem of what is IC and RP and what isn't - cuz yea we definitley have lore breaking RPers out there...)

In EVERY other game I've ever played, the only "IC world" that people normally expect to stay IC (note I didn't say RP...I said IC) is that in the /say channels (the true public...lol). Not the general channels, nor trade channels, nor LFG channels that are all created by the game itself... (following your assertment - they shoudl also all be RP enforced channels in other games since the RP server made them..and that's just not the case)

2ndly - I explained this quite throughly in the OTHER rant thread about events that recently happened in DC on order - its probably the last or next to last post - please if you need the full explanation of my logic about the idea that Dragon chat is NOT meant to be "RP only" - go read it there.

To sum up the points I had made.

Of all the bot-created "public" channels - half, if not more than half, are clearly NOT meant to be "RP only" channels (throwing out Dragon chat in that consideration altogether I speak of the other ones...).

Therefore applying a rule to dragon chat that doesn't exist for the say, New Player channel - is random and doesn't hold water. It isn't consistent - and that's not fair to the people who go to that channel to ask OOC game related stuff or discuss OOC stuff with their friends.

Anyone's assumption that dragon chat is meant to be RP only is just that - their assumption - without finding out from other players that perhaps that is not its ONLY function. The fact that the shard is RP is irrelevant, that's not how it works in other games either.

Now I'll never ever ever assert that RP doesn't belong or shouldn't happen in the channel. I think BOTH have a right to coexist there. I've done both myself and welcome both.

But as I said in closing in the other rant - if you're expecting to engage in some steady, "serious (as in plot developing)" RP, then expecting everyone else to shutup in a public channel is a bit self-aggrandizing. (cuz hey even if they are RPing if they're not RPing in your chatline then that's interrupting as much as IC/OOC comments right?)

I am NOT saying, Tchanel, that's what you're expecting - I'm just saying that as a statement in general lol.

If its lighthearted RP, playing around, talking with other dragons - people will come in and out of the RP discussion as they can and want to (they always have). Those who need questions answered or guidance - that chanel was made for them too!

Come on people, its about sharing and respect. Why some Rpers feel a need to kick everyone else out of "their" channels always boggles my mind. Everyone in dragon chat - those IC and OOC have the same right to be there and talk. I mean we don't kick out the non-dragons do we? No...

I knwo its a rant - I respect your right to rant - but I can rant about the rant topic too and year after year this comes up and I just get a little sick of defending player's rights to have questions answerd and to be in whatever public channel they want...

[Wirevix]

Now I just regret bothering to post this thread. None of this it is relevant any longer anyway. I'm taking a long break from Istaria in the hopes that I am just forgotten.

[Galdethriel]

To tell the truth, I don't even know why you're so upset over this. Or what you're even upset about. :/

Is this just that you don't like your roleplay being interrupted by OOC chatter? Because it seems a bit of a daft reason to get so upset... just ignore it, or better yet, don't go in Dragon. Many of the people I know are simply asked if they would like to come to a private RP channel with friends, and we sorta focus RP in there. It's calmer than Dragon chat, which has been noted on several occassions to not be the best place to hang out. (Though I do go there sometimes... when you get frustrated, take a deep breath, relax, step out. Give yourself a break. You know?)

With the OOC chat, Dragon channel is, as I've been told and has been noted in the thread by others, actually an OOC channel. Besides, you have to keep in mind that just because someone joins Order it doesn't mean they want to spend every second of every hour of play roleplaying... some people need a break from that too. And there's also the case of you're not really there to roleplay; maybe you chose the server just because that's where your best friends play. Maybe you only like to RP with a certain group and will be constantly OOC to everyone else. Fair enough.

It just seems elitist to expect to be able to force players into playing how you want them to play.. in the end, they pay good money for the game too. If they don't feel like RP'ing constantly, that's fine, just find someone who does want to RP. (Remember also, actually knowing someone OOC can help RP along so much. It's really important, in my opinion.)

I did offer to RP with you when you were in Dragon Chat not so long ago, but you ignored me. You can't expect to stamp your feet for something and then stick your nose up when someone offers it. T_T

~Galde

[LOVWYRM]

We`ve already lost players cause of all this.
Report those players who are offending and harassing to support.
Send the logs.
We have to get rid of those.

[ScaleIron]

I have to agree with Galde's post, all of it. I'm still not seeing what the issue is/was here.

If it's something that was read in chat... well, you gotta think, is that really how the other person meant it to sound? It's hard to communicate with just text... so much goes into communication for it to be understood clearly. Tone, volume, body language... all of that is missed in text.

I would like for players to send each other tells to clear things up, instead of one saying something and another taking it in a way it wasn't meant to be taken, and having them fire back, and having the first defend themselves, and it all becomes a big confusing mess.

I see no reason to leave a game over OOC chatter. It's easy to close a window if you can't ignore it outright. Maybe it's just me, but I see this as being blown way out of proportion. I know that things I have said in chat have been taken the wrong way, and there's nothing more irritating than having someone jump all over you without bothering to ask for an explanation. Yes, I can see that some people are leaving over things like this, but has anyone given any thought to the other side? Maybe they didn't intend for their words to come of as jerkish, and now they have to deal with thinking they chased off another player. That's a guilt I wouldn't want, especially if I didn't actually deserve it.

[Vaz]

There's a problem:
1. A lot of the good roleplayers do linger in Dragon and use it to connect with opportunities for RP outside of it.
2. A lot of those same people are Invisible, making it difficult to get in touch with them unless you too subject yourself to that channel.

Most people I know in Istaria are part of Dragon. I am not, nor do I want to be, but they talk about things happening in there and I'm tempted to join it anyway. Half of the RPs I might be interested in begin there. I'm probably not the only person who encounters this conundrum.

I propose a new channel be created and every decent roleplayer abandon Dragon.