So, I got this gripe about Istaria

[Vahrokh]

In the past I have never hidden the fact that imho what we play in games reflects what we are in real life (save for hard role playing, I talk about the "natural" flow of feelings that come from the inside).

As such I feel a lot like my dragon: red, fierce, Lunus even IRL, grumpy and... with some "natural connection" with gold / money.

That is, every single games I have played in my life, including real life itself, I ended up as being a trader or merchant of sorts.
In RetroMUD (yeah that old) I could afford myself multiple castles (the biggest money sink, one was heavy already) and the top epics.
In WoW I was probably the richest on my server (many thousands of gold in 2006 when most never got more than 100). I was a crafter with those elusive, rare, requiring top content raiding or "event" recipes.
In Warhammer Online same as above, I had a stash of Black color selling for tons a piece.
In EvE Online, by heavily trading, I multiplied my possessions in a week and now I could afford what newer players (like me) could not even imagine.
In real life I trade on Forex to fix my income and I have to say I can't complain about the results at all.

In Istaria, back in the day, I had those event techs and would trade in resources and spells and let's say I was rich enough to have multiple of those 110 x 110 plots plus other.
Now, I am seriously tempted to play Istaria more often (that is more than 1 hour every 6 months ) expecially because of the ancient friends.

But this is what turns me down... there's no trading to do any more. Yes there are (were?) those epics bits to sell / exchange but they are not a "normal life of trader" like I enjoyed in 2004/2005.
I mean, I loved to have a purpose to go around and spill essence (people would arrange for a payment), to find spots to sell at Kion for profit, to sell all sorts of spells (high volume, affordable price), expecially the latter, as it made me interact with hundreds of different people, I really loved it.

For some reason, since I got on the USA servers I can't find the same thing. I mean, instead of "roleplaying" a market, people just solo grind everything or have it handed for free.

So, I'd log in and find very friendly people to chat with... period. Don't mistake me, people like Chasing or Dakoren are rare pearls in an "internet anonymous game" but... I could achieve the same just with their MSN address and chat there.

What's left to do that is not boring (ie grinding the same epic boss or making the 20th plot)?
Is any market left? Or any crafting venture? (yeah I am Lunus AND craft addict and like spells. Maybe I'd be Helian if they did not murder my parents).
Something to do while talking with all those fine people that won't constantly tell me "why don't you just MSN them"?

[Shian]

I know exactly how you feel.

I'm a hoarder in most of my other MMOs. I have to have every collectable, rare 'junk' item.

Being not much of a fighter, I'm also a professional cross game interior decorator. Which... kinda dosen't exist in Istaria. I have high standards for what games I play. If they don't fit the parts I play, I don't play them because they leave holes.

I can't play Wow because of the void it leaves as there's no IG housing for me to have and the lacking craft system I won't touch with a 10 ft pole.

I sorely miss AOC because it has some of the best quests I've ever seen. But I don't play it because you only get some 30 vault/inventory slots combined, leaving no room for trinkets or those quest rewards. You are expected to sell those as soon as you outgrow them. That gets under my skin. This limited space also makes it difficult to be a merchant.

By all my standards, I should have left Istaria long ago, but that same thing is also what keeps me here.

With no real loot to speak of, but a decent craft system, it baffles me every day how this game can be so long running, but running on the spirit of the community alone as the IG economy just dosen't exist. Only game I've ever played where coin has little meaning.

What drew me to it in the first place was the RP. At the time, I had just given up on Wow. I was sick of being a certain level and being asked why I wasn't 5 levels higher or get that question of 'Are you 80 yet?' as if every level before that had no meaning whatsoever. Because of the RP-centric Istaria, my low level hatchling actually meant something. I could contribute no matter what my level or equipment or items I had.

While not my style or natural tendancy for gaming, at first I used HZ as an augment to the other MMOs that filled that need for crafting, trading and IG housing. Now it's one of my staples for reasons that defy my natural game play. There's another post around here referencing this game as a 'retirement MMO' and I agree with it.

I play this game because I don't have to worry about the things I normally enjoy.

Playing the market game for hours on end to get that rare item in the end is fun, but at the same time, it's also stressful. Istaria, for good and bad, lacks that.

[Vahrokh]

Don't mistake me, but I am not playing Istaria for "the rare item". I indeed have from those long gone even techs to boar mask to epic.. almost everything... but this is not what would keep me in game (in fact, it didn't). I wanted some player to player interaction like I can have in other MMOs, I mean the friendship part is GREAT and unique of this game but I can't see myself talking with people for 6 hours a day and little else.

PS the other day I logged in, a storm came and then a blackout so I could not help those I told I'd help. Sorry.

[Guaran]

If the player base goes up, then the ingame economy will improve.

For now the best selling things are radiant stat crystals, and epic weapon bits.

Beyond that it's maybe once a week where I am asked to craft something. Most players are self sufficient.

[Xarog]

Coin serves almost no purpose in the game at the moment. Yes, there might be the occasional squabble over a plot auction, but what can you actually do with coin?

Unless I'm sorely mistaken, the only other coin sink are the craft trainers who sell formulas. Removing Nadia from the game removed the last place an established player could actually go to burn a lot of money.

The expert formulas I come across I simply delete. It's too much hassle to even take them to a pawnbroker. After all, why should I? It's not like the coin is actually going to provide me with any tangible benefits.

And I think this is one of the fundamental problems with Istaria. Trading only occurs in coin because of tradition. But unless players actually have a need for coin (which right now is basically restricted only to plot purchases), why would they even want to trade?

The lab might kickstart things in some respects. New items means demand which means that people will want to be useful to other players for a while. That can take many forms and so limited trading will occur. But to be honest I doubt that it will cause a complete rebirth of the economy.

I wouldn't spend all day making mithril bars to sell it to someone. Would you? Would anyone?

Trading, imo, could be revived firstly by returning Nadia to the game, and secondly by creating new vendors with limitless raw materials which trade those materials for coin. Whether they have a set price or whether the price floats based on supply/demand would be something for the devs to decide. Either way, it would give all players a place to exchange their money for tangible in-game items on demand without having to wait for other willing players to log-in. Coin would thus serve as a viable reserve, because it could be exchanged at any time for something which has a direct and tangible use/benefit to the player.

[BrightCat]

I know this might be slightly off topic, but even though coin has no real use here, I still try to get more of it. Perhaps it's just my dragon personality to try and gain more stuff and hoard it. I like seeing my amount of gold go up!

But I was never much of a crafter/merchant so... yeah. *shrugs*

[AmonGwareth]

There are lots of things that were added in Dralnok's Doom that are there for players to trade. Collection sets, Dragon Techs, Lots of tech comps and trophy items, dye kits, and more.

[Whysp]

The following are my personal observations and opinions, and do not reflect the observations or opinions of anyone else.

Coin serves almost no purpose in the game at the moment. Yes, there might be the occasional squabble over a plot auction, but what can you actually do with coin?

Usually when playerbases get as small as they are in Istaria (active players are down to under 1,000 worldwide if my estimations are right), money does tend to lose meaning, because such a high percentage of players are likely of the same mind; trying to fill time by doing everything. They also get tired trying to find what they're looking for when they need it, so decide to just get it themselves, rather than pay for it.

Unless I'm sorely mistaken, the only other coin sink are the craft trainers who sell formulas. Removing Nadia from the game removed the last place an established player could actually go to burn a lot of money.

Removing an NPC source for an in-game item forces the community to look at the community to get it. When people buy and sell with other players, an economy is established. Again, this only becomes a problem with a large game world and a small playerbase. The real problem is when ITEMS are removed from the game, not NPC's. Formulas that could burn reagents, techs that required difficult to get or rare items, even vanity items.

The expert formulas I come across I simply delete. It's too much hassle to even take them to a pawnbroker. After all, why should I? It's not like the coin is actually going to provide me with any tangible benefits.

I'm not sure whether or not to thank you for this one. Because you delete an item, it alters it's visable rarity. Though I did hear that expert forms are now availiable on trainers.

And I think this is one of the fundamental problems with Istaria. Trading only occurs in coin because of tradition. But unless players actually have a need for coin (which right now is basically restricted only to plot purchases), why would they even want to trade?

Coin is, was, and always will be used as barter because of tradition. I tried trading formula for formula the other night, and no one would take. After two days of trying, I gave up and consigned them. They sold like hotcakes. For a lot of people, it's difficult to imagine the worth of things in Copper and Tin Ore, for instance, as opposed to copper coins. (They're worth roughly the same, by the way.) The world is a monetary place. We look at something, and immediately assess how much we'd pay for it. Even our time. A lot of people have $15/mo accounts, because it's the best deal for our time in the game.

The lab might kickstart things in some respects. New items means demand which means that people will want to be useful to other players for a while. That can take many forms and so limited trading will occur. But to be honest I doubt that it will cause a complete rebirth of the economy.

New items might be an incentive for new things on consigners, but the main problem is still going to exist. There's too much coin, and not enough players. I'm honestly not sure if there can be a "complete rebirth" of the economy, without being able to bring in a larger influx of players, with various different mindsets.

I wouldn't spend all day making mithril bars to sell it to someone. Would you? Would anyone?

Me. I would. I do. Why? Because Mithril Bars are needed by several people, and like you said; who wants to spend all day making them? That leaves a hole in the marketplace. A hole that I fill. And because of that, I'm able to make a bit of coin, while also helping my fellow players.

Trading, imo, could be revived firstly by returning Nadia to the game, and secondly by creating new vendors with limitless raw materials which trade those materials for coin. Whether they have a set price or whether the price floats based on supply/demand would be something for the devs to decide. Either way, it would give all players a place to exchange their money for tangible in-game items on demand without having to wait for other willing players to log-in. Coin would thus serve as a viable reserve, because it could be exchanged at any time for something which has a direct and tangible use/benefit to the player.

So you want to fix the economy by removing the player to player interaction? Other than collecting raw materials themselves, the only other way to get raw materials is by trading with other players. If there were vendors that sold them, I believe the economy would be more broken than ever. Unless the price could somehow be linked to consigners so that the NPC always sold it for more expensive than the highest listed price, all this would result in is an influx of materials, rather than coin.

There's always going to be economy problems in game worlds, because there's not really an economy. It's a farce. We only notice it when there's a small amount of players.
Coin drops from the sky in game worlds. Currency in real life had to be either found (if it took the form of a natural item, such as a specific shell) or created (such as coins, metal-backed notes, or paper currency). This created a rarity, and gave it actual value.
No matter what in-game changes there are, I'm not sure there's going to be a stabalizing in the economy until and unless we can get more players into the game. New characters start with 0 coin, which gives them incentive to begin collecting things to sell to others. Higher level players could then use the low level players as a "money sink", paying them to collect and/or process items they'd no longer get experience for.

Hopefully we'll be able to strike a good balance that allows everyone to be happy; but in the meantime all we can do is wait, and tell potential new players about the good points in the game.

[Xarog]

Usually when playerbases get as small as they are in Istaria (active players are down to under 1,000 worldwide if my estimations are right), money does tend to lose meaning, because such a high percentage of players are likely of the same mind; trying to fill time by doing everything. They also get tired trying to find what they're looking for when they need it, so decide to just get it themselves, rather than pay for it.

That's certainly part of it.

Removing an NPC source for an in-game item forces the community to look at the community to get it. When people buy and sell with other players, an economy is established. Again, this only becomes a problem with a large game world and a small playerbase. The real problem is when ITEMS are removed from the game, not NPC's. Formulas that could burn reagents, techs that required difficult to get or rare items, even vanity items.

Maybe I'm lazy, maybe I'm crazy, but the things that took me effort to get aren't going to be traded out for stuff I can get easily, even if it's masses of the common stuff.

I'm not sure whether or not to thank you for this one. Because you delete an item, it alters it's visable rarity. Though I did hear that expert forms are now availiable on trainers.

That's certainly one way to look at it. The other way to look at it is that formulas are frequently for sale on consigners at a measely 1-2s. And what happens 90% of the time? Those formulas get returned to vaults when the week is up. My vault stacks are important to me; I'm not wasting 1 stack for 1-2s, especially not when I can farm 100s per hour without causing myself any undue strain (and I'm a friggen spirit disciple).

If you think you should thank me for this, well feel free I guess. The real problem is that this same "problem" is suffered by the majority of the playerbase. Item saturation has occured.

Coin is, was, and always will be used as barter because of tradition. I tried trading formula for formula the other night, and no one would take. After two days of trying, I gave up and consigned them. They sold like hotcakes.

Well I'm quite curious to know which formulas you sold. It sounds like you've found a nice little hole in the market.

New items might be an incentive for new things on consigners, but the main problem is still going to exist. There's too much coin, and not enough players. I'm honestly not sure if there can be a "complete rebirth" of the economy, without being able to bring in a larger influx of players, with various different mindsets.

I pretty much agree with all of this.

Me. I would. I do. Why? Because Mithril Bars are needed by several people, and like you said; who wants to spend all day making them? That leaves a hole in the marketplace. A hole that I fill. And because of that, I'm able to make a bit of coin, while also helping my fellow players.

Do you play on chaos by any chance? If you do I'd like to avail myself of your services sometime.

So you want to fix the economy by removing the player to player interaction? Other than collecting raw materials themselves, the only other way to get raw materials is by trading with other players. If there were vendors that sold them, I believe the economy would be more broken than ever. Unless the price could somehow be linked to consigners so that the NPC always sold it for more expensive than the highest listed price, all this would result in is an influx of materials, rather than coin.

Not quite. First of all, there's more than one way to go about this. The first way would be to create a new NPC which actually *buys* the materials. This is more like how the pawnbroker is. The player, at the time of selling, would lose ownership of the item. At the end of a week, the item would not return to the player. If prices were set according to supply and demand, then the more that players bought the item, the more the price would rise (and thus the price which the vendor buys material from the players). Instead of removing the player to player trading, all you're actually doing is adding an intermediary.

There's always going to be economy problems in game worlds, because there's not really an economy. It's a farce. We only notice it when there's a small amount of players.

Eh? If you have mithril bars and you're willing to part with them in exchange for something that I have (and am willing to give you for the bars), then a defacto economy exists.

Coin drops from the sky in game worlds. Currency in real life had to be either found (if it took the form of a natural item, such as a specific shell) or created (such as coins, metal-backed notes, or paper currency). This created a rarity, and gave it actual value.

Everything drops from the 'sky' in mmorpgs. But it's also governed by things such as spawn and drop rates. This is what creates an item's "rarity".

No matter what in-game changes there are, I'm not sure there's going to be a stabalizing in the economy until and unless we can get more players into the game. New characters start with 0 coin, which gives them incentive to begin collecting things to sell to others. Higher level players could then use the low level players as a "money sink", paying them to collect and/or process items they'd no longer get experience for.

The new players would also have to suck away the surplus formulas. But in theory it is one solution. But we aren't going to magically increase the game population exponentially, so it's worth looking at other alternatives, no?

Hopefully we'll be able to strike a good balance that allows everyone to be happy; but in the meantime all we can do is wait, and tell potential new players about the good points in the game.

It's a nice thought.

There are lots of things that were added in Dralnok's Doom that are there for players to trade. Collection sets, Dragon Techs, Lots of tech comps and trophy items, dye kits, and more.

Sounds promising.

[Vahrokh]

Yes, there might be the occasional squabble over a plot auction, but what can you actually do with coin?

Well, as dragon I tend to make nice mounds of coins and to relax while sitting on them

There are lots of things that were added in Dralnok's Doom that are there for players to trade. Collection sets, Dragon Techs, Lots of tech comps and trophy items, dye kits, and more.

This is a fantastic feature and I hope your hard work will be prized by a substantial rise of subscriptions (don't forget to advertise the expansion!).

Still, the lack of money sinks is not going to be fixed. Money will just switch hands. Faucets will introduce more.

Now, we have seen that Nadia was a quite hideous money sink, mostly because you could not avoid using her for some limited drops.

Imho the game should introduce more small sinks like (some) teleports do or bank accounts do.

Tier 3+ teched gear should bind on the wearer and also lose efficiency after repeated damage, ie be only 30% as effective till repaired up by an armorsmith / "scalesmith" who would have to use minerals and a NPC only reagent per repaired piece.

This would introduce a money and materials sink and a neat meta game of shops.

[Deth]

Do not for get the huge money sink of the vault up grades. No it is not a on going money sink but at the higher levels it is quite expensive. Also some expert and I do belive master forms are being sold now as well as dropped so that is a bit of a money sink as well. Yes they still drop but they are the base required forms so you do not have to wait for a drop of them you can pick them up as soon as you reach that level.

I do agree with teched Gear binding on being equipped I do not want to see item wear my self. Hopefully as the new techs are really high level and considered epic I hope, they will be bind on equip.

I would rather see some work done on stuff like the tassles and such that would be used to trick out weapons and spells and the resources needed for them be sold only items. Now that would be a money sink no one would complain about. But that is something that will never happen or be a long long time in coming.

[Death-knell]

I think his issue is more with the lack of people in game. I don't play much either, everytime I do get on for a while the only people I see are in chat channels but I never actually run across them. Trading is great when you have a decent player base but right now the player base is almost a ghost town.

Honestly to bring people back I don't think you need more content. The game itself needs a major upgrade....I know, I know....no money, not enough employees. But for this game to increase player base the game needs to be reborn.

[Draxe]

I think you're problem, or dilemma, is that there aren't enough players. It's supply and Demand really. Theres WAYY too much supply, and with what maybe 200 actual players (might be 500-1000 subs tho), theres not enough demand through the entire leveling process.

It's unfortunate for newer/returning players like me who are just starting up a new character, because there aren't enough other new players to help build things on my plot. Normally charging 1s per unit of T1 is a fair price, but because everyone is lvl 100 in everything, why do T1 when you can just as easily do T4/5/6 and get paid 4-6x more?

Also, I hate it when there is NOTHING going on in Istaria. I find myself crafting in what seems to be my own world of Istaria. Nobody is saying anything in chats, and I couldn't find another player no matter how hard I try. This really removes the social aspect of it, and if it's not a social experience I might as well go play Oblivion for $0/month

The fix to what ails us, probably nothing short of upgrading to CryEngine and just remaking Istaria.

I just thought of a question. What if some company decided to buy up Istaria, and did just that. Treat it like a whole new game, build it using a state of the art engine, but just use some of the intellectual property that comes with the Istaria rights? ie Crafting system, class spells.

I think that's part of why Istaria will never see a big rush of new players. Same way as N64, though amazing, isn't going to see a wave of new players just because people realize how fun it is and the Nintendo Marketing department decided to advertise for it again.

This game looks dated, so people pass right by, unfortunate but true.

I have so much to say on this topic, I could probably write a book. Ending here.

[Shian]

=
Me. I would. I do. Why? Because Mithril Bars are needed by several people, and like you said; who wants to spend all day making them? That leaves a hole in the marketplace. A hole that I fill. And because of that, I'm able to make a bit of coin, while also helping my fellow players.=

What server are you on? I've been trying to buy stacks of raw resources for weeks. No one wants coin for the amount of work it takes for that. I eventually started selling off my energy and spirit converting claws to get bars and orbs.

Time is the real currency here.

[Phillip]

I like diversity in the playerbase. I like pure crafters, gatherers, merchants, explorers or both craft/adv, or just pure advs and whatever else. I think it's grand to have that in an mmo. Currently I do see disparity in this, and it's not something many of us didn't predict 5 years ago. The problems persist in the game-model, development and the players.

The game lean towards crafting mostly. From plot construction to gear to perishable goods to everything else. This is good for the crafting crowd, not so good for the adventuring crowd because the adventurers are having to a) rely heavily on crafters and 2) not having enough of what is rare & lucrative, to make them feel unique in their existance. The lack of rarity and uniqueness span into the crafting side as well. Development didn't fix this, and the minority of playerbase (who thought they were majority) supported this form of development.

Plot & Lair construction to me, overall, is the best feature in this game. It is tedious, time consuming yet truly rewarding. Personally I would not make a whole lot of changes here. This is great in a sense that all types of players would want. From pure adventurers to crafters, this is what they like to have. Keep in mind balance though, that one type of player (adv) needs the other (crafter) completely and even so, most are fine with it.

Perishable goods (potions and food) are necessary, and all types of players want this. Crafters make these, everyone else needs. Good enough.

Armor, weapons, jewelry and spells are made by crafters. I know few are drops but on a general basis, these are crafted. This is a multiclassing game, so you can imagine the amount of stuff above mentioned that one single adv would need, over time. It's a hell of a lot.

For the true adventurers who started playing at retail, this is the biggest gripe. It was really difficult to get geared up because a) gear was expensive and b) so difficult to find crafters to make, even if you're in a big guild c) advs didn't make a lot of cash, and no lucrative drops to make money or to trade with d) you have to bring comps, cash and sometimes forms/techs - in other words, you can't just go and buy these things.

Now, I understand that player interaction is important. I don't remember the lack of such back in the days but I do remember what most advs wanted: 1) for the crafters to make/teched items and place them on vendors everywhere so we can just buy or b) to be able to go up to an NPC, pick which item/techs you want, and simply pay.

Most crafters wanted to work on their schools (they go annon 24/7). To get them to stop and make stuff for you was a pain for both. This forced one-side dependency, interdependency isn't challenging, but extremely annoying on the MMO challenge - annoyance meter.

(Note: this is still to this day - so if we get a massive influx of new players, they will feel the same way and take their leave)

Things got a bit better months after retail as advs dropped out. Even if one could get all he needs always (like me), there's still nothing truly unique since we all have the same crafted stuff. I know most players don't understand this but just know that it's really boring for the adventuring-type, if such can past the "go back to wow if you want uber gear" mantra.

(Note: I never did play wow)

The introduction of T5 made things better the advs monetarily, due to it's flawed design. This is when many crafters dropped out. Nonetheless, still not anything for the adventurer state of mind. Yeah they made lots of money but then what, can they buy better gear with all that cash? After a while they're gone too. The interesting thing about that event: I saw how crafters reacted. These folks and forms and techs haha. Kind of like how advs want the best, topp gear and will do anything for them, but 100 times worse. Moving on.

I know there are artifacts from events past that were lucrative. Personally, I feel these items are priceless in Istaria because they add to the history/lore of our existance. These items, and the fact that they are no longer attainable, gives an extreme sense of uniqueness to Istaria. The problems: the whinny havenots in the playerbase, and those in development who seek to nerf/renerf these items year after year after year.

I also understand that there are epic mobs in the game which drops some unique stuff. SoG, Valkor etc. I'm ok with these except: a) saturation and b) camping. Actually, I don't mind camping. I do mind the anti-camping whinners. I notice now that the SoG spawntime is around 30 minutes...lol. wtfork. I don't get this sense of development.

If I could add something to stimulate Istaria, it will go like this:

New enemy - The AncalÃ**mons

New Mob Boss - Amarië of the AncalÃ**mons. A spiffy fiend in nifty tight fiend outfit.

They took over the ED fortress that is now their HQ, cuz the WA sux.

They took over other areas in Istaria as well.

Current weapons/spells will only do 25% damage to these mobs. You will need drops from them to make new weapons (new art assets welcome here).

(Note: weapons as mentioned include dragon claws)

The new weapons/spells will do full potential damage, as well an additional 25% to mobs worldwide. Weapons can be socketed, spells teched.

The drops are from these high end AncalÃ**mon minions. There will be NO CAMPING problemos since the drops don't come from one mob, but many at random.

The drops are formulas and component pieces.

They drop pieces needed to make weapons (aka Valkor). You need 100 pieces. All these are rare, rare drops. Not needed to be numerical order.

They also drop runes for the sockets in weapons. Extremely rare drops with randomly generated stats (aka Blighted items). Stackable. So it's super rare, but then you need the stats you want on it. Now imagine getting one, and how you'd feel finding out the stats. They drop cogs, too.

They drop formulas to make better cargo disks, cargo armor, forms for better tools, etc.

They drop a blueprint for a new, buildable structure (koi pond, wizard's tower or something) which require the blueprint as a component to complete. This is ultra-rare.

The AncalÃ**mons will spawn, abeit rarely, in player plot communities.

You can attempt to kill the Boss. A difficult task yet not annoying design like Reklar/Faf. No forced race/class in group play. No one hit wonder. If you defeat her she will disappear, leaving behind only the tight outfit (no stats). Players can wear this. New art assets welcome (dragons get sandals or something).

I'm sure more can be added.

Basically, we got stuff for both crafting and adventuring. Not easy, not that hard. Not for the lazy, instant gratification crowd. Not for the faint of heart. No camping involved. Something to do. Truly rewarding. This will hold the top end playerbase for a long time.

Anyway, too much rambling ..the coffee is wearing off.

[Vahrokh]

Currently I do see disparity in this, and it's not something many of us didn't predict 5 years ago.

I was there - Tazoon.com - 5 years ago. Indeed you said that.
Indeed you were right.

[lino]

The AncalÃ**mons will spawn, abeit rarely, in player plot communities.

Basically, we got stuff for both crafting and adventuring. Not easy, not that hard. Not for the lazy, instant gratification crowd. Not for the faint of heart. No camping involved. Something to do. Truly rewarding. This will hold the top end playerbase for a long time.

I dont see a problem with your ideas except those 2 quotes. New mobs are good, new high level crafting options that require crafters and adventurers to cooperate are good. But high level stuff spawning in player communities and only thinking about "holding the top end playerbase" is short-sighted and rather stupid - although the reduction of a game to "end game experience" is very common these days.
If you turn plots from safe havens to potentially deadly areas you will give any new player a bad feeling and many of the more casual players will simply give up on plots (and probably on the game). No MMORPG can live on it's "top end playerbase" alone in the long run. People will always leave for different reasons, no matter how good "end game" is. To keep a game alive you need a constant influx of new players as well as keeping the drainage of old players small.
Thus anything you plan to improve the "end game" needs to be balanced against negative impact on new players. Building and improving on your plot is a major part of the positive experience in this game across almost all levels - adding a major risk of death to plots greatly reduces this positive experience.

Instead of the plot communities I would suggest using selected towns as spawn area for those mobs. Ideally one would chose towns that have NPCs and/or travel gates valuable to high level players only. Additionally routes to popular hunting grounds could be "attacked" by these forces from time to time - to avoid unwanted casualties only in a safe distance from travel pads and gates that are frequently used by lower level players though (so people at least have a chance to recall; having to chose a different route is probably acceptable, getting smitten right after porting is not).

[Phillip]

On the point of mobs attacking player plot communities - that happened before, as well as player towns. Ports were shut down. Noobs/NPCs/Dragons/All fought and slain left and right. DPs for everyone. To my perspective, those events did a lot of good. The boards were happening, chat channels active. People more aware and interraction galore. It brought the community together and made Istarian living much more interesting.

As far as casual gamers are concerned, I can't find a more casual friendly game than this. I don't think making it more so will help Istaria. It's been watered down so much already. As well, I don't consider those who craft 6-10 hours/day as casual gamers. The reason why I'm saying this is somehow, those type folks consider themselves such to make the argument stick.

What I stated was more of a way to introduce things that are new & unique to the current playerbase (must have new art!). The idea is to hold their interest for a long time while development find a way to make the game more interesting not just for new players, but all players. Vahrokh posted something not long ago and he's right on: new players find this game uninteresting, and outright boring. I'm not sure how to make it better, but I feel to hold on to the current playerbase is a good thing. It's not about the endgame, it's about the elder game.

I'm excited about the T6 stuff coming out. Because it's T6 and it's new. I can't help but wonder: how long before saturation takes effect now that so few are playing? Remember T5, we had 10-20x more players. So how long before we all got what we need, filled our vaults with excess form/techs (like we have with T5), and go back to the status quo of plot construction?

Think I'm gonna sign up with MSN.

[lino]

On the point of mobs attacking player plot communities - that happened before, as well as player towns. Ports were shut down. Noobs/NPCs/Dragons/All fought and slain left and right. DPs for everyone. To my perspective, those events did a lot of good. The boards were happening, chat channels active. People more aware and interraction galore. It brought the community together and made Istarian living much more interesting.

And how many people where playing the game back then? How fast could people gather forces strong enough to fight back an attack on their community?
Unfortunately the player base is rather small these days and that has to be considered when adding new content. You can't just force people to deal with content designed for a large group when it takes an hour or more to assemble such a group.

As far as casual gamers are concerned, I can't find a more casual friendly game than this.

Yes it is very casual friendly. Because you don't have to be high level to do fun and rewarding stuff in this game, like building your own home and creating crafted goods for yourself, your friends or for sale. And because you can do so without beeing 100% "alert" during your play time.

I don't think making it more so will help Istaria.

I am not asking to make it more casual friendly. You are suggesting making it less casual friendly and I am arguing against that.

It's been watered down so much already.

Ah, the good old "watered down" reasoning. I wish I had a dollar for every time this came up in a discussion about any MMORPG I played during the last 10 years. I'd never have to worry about paying for my subscription fees again.

As well, I don't consider those who craft 6-10 hours/day as casual gamers. The reason why I'm saying this is somehow, those type folks consider themselves such to make the argument stick.

I consider those casual gamers that are bound by RL constraints and have to "struggle" for their gaming time. People with jobs, families and their own household. People who can't just say "Mum, I am going to play for the next few hours. Can you bring me dinner later and make sure I am not disturbed otherwise?". People who have to leave the computer at any time because the baby cries or their wife calls.

What I stated was more of a way to introduce things that are new & unique to the current playerbase (must have new art!). The idea is to hold their interest for a long time while development find a way to make the game more interesting not just for new players, but all players. Vahrokh posted something not long ago and he's right on: new players find this game uninteresting, and outright boring. I'm not sure how to make it better, but I feel to hold on to the current playerbase is a good thing. It's not about the endgame, it's about the elder game.

I am not against new art or new content. I am not against spicing up the elder game. But I am against doing so at the cost of the rest of the playerbase. Some of us are actually new.
Myself I started about 2 months ago and I expect to be here for many more months. But I don't want to be thrown into the middle of a snake pit now just so you can have something big to fight against. Putting mobs I can't possibly defeat right on my alleged safe haven will not make the game more interesting for me, it will make it more frustrating.

I'm excited about the T6 stuff coming out. Because it's T6 and it's new. I can't help but wonder: how long before saturation takes effect now that so few are playing? Remember T5, we had 10-20x more players. So how long before we all got what we need, filled our vaults with excess form/techs (like we have with T5), and go back to the status quo of plot construction?

Well, with less people playing it will probably take a while until everyone has their T6 stuff. Some will be fast, some will be slow (because they have less luck with drops or less time and there is no big market supplying everyone with the newest stuff).
I don't see how forcing high level content down low level players throats should or could change anything about that.

[Creme]

Well I pretty much agree with everything you said Philip and some good ideas in there.

The AoP wandering the roads and towns of Harro/ML was great...I will admit I didn't have a home in those areas, but I definitely was porting in/out very frequently. You learned how to evade and usually there were warnings in the public channels when they were in the towns, so players knew to sprint once they landed.

There's not as much lethality/spice on the roads any longer, or at least, they're a lot more isolated.