Devs: Why nerf t4 loot?

[Raspewtin]

That worked, and amazingly quickly Awdz. Thanks for making the suggestion.

For anyone else interested - the response was that the current plan is to work through all of the tiers in order. The response indicated they would add a note about the Jade golems I mentioned in particular to look at when they get to T4.

Devs - thanks for all you do. Especially the part about responding to questions from players. It's very nice to see that you don't agree with those trying to shut us down from asking questions. A good attitude from the devs is enough to keep me around for a long time.

[velveeta]

velveeta, your post isn't helpful. It's not disagreeing with my points either. It's actually just trolling at me personally. Which is against the rules of the forums. Please stick to topic and post your opinions only. Keep the personal attacks out of it.

Last I checked this forum was for all of us. We all get to post our questions and opinions. It may annoy you, and you are entitled to your opinion. But you don't get to tell us not to post.

Devs - still looking for an answer.

just a question for you, then, rasp -
can you explain to me how my post was trolling or could be considered a personal attack?
i would like to make sure i don't do it again, as i have not recieved an accusation of trolling for several years now and thought i was doing pretty good.....
or how i was telling you not to post your opinions or questions.....can't figure that out from my post either......

original post for accuracy:

let me ask, rasp - once you get your answer, what then?
what difference will knowing make?

what's done is done and what will be done will be done and what is not to be will not be.

will you stop playing if you get an answer you don't like?

leave the devs to do what they do. they will answer or not. if you don't like the game, don't play. if you like the game, keep playing.
everything ultimately comes down to that.

i am not trying to sound rude or flippant, but its a pain to keep seeing so many posts about this.
you must learn patience, grasshopper - all things come in their time.......

[Chrissi]

will you stop playing if you get an answer you don't like?

leave the devs to do what they do. they will answer or not. if you don't like the game, don't play. if you like the game, keep playing.
everything ultimately comes down to that.

i am not trying to sound rude or flippant, but its a pain to keep seeing so many posts about this.
you must learn patience, grasshopper - all things come in their time.......

If I may say something...

I've been lurking a bit and something has become apparent to me. The devs actually care in this game. They seem to want to know what players are talking about, what they want. And they ask for more details when people say something is wrong.

So I think it's up to us to make it clear what is and isn't working for us. Saying things lke "be patient" and "leave them to do what they do" and "don't play if you don't like it" isn't helpful, in fact it's counter to the point, that devs need feedback to know what they ought to be doing.

You could argue that this isn't the proper medium in which to make these complaints heard, that it should be in tickets? (Um, I really don't know, I'm really new so I am not sure, just guessing) But I don't really think that comments like "be patient" and "leave them alone" are helpful or appropriate.

Again, I'm new so if I'm off the mark then explain why and I may agree, but this is just how it seems to me right now.

[Velea]

Chrissi, I'm not trying to speak for velveeta when I answer this, but this is what I can say...

I don't feel that she was trolling, nor do I feel as though she was telling anyone to not post, not ask questions, or even saying "don't play if you don't like it".

I believe, and agree with her, that what she was saying as there is no need to repeatedly "bump" a thread demanding an answer every day, every other day, or even once. I can assure you that the forum threads are read, usually multiple times a day. If I, or anyone else on the staff, doesn't specifically respond to a post, bumping it multiple times demanding an answer (which is what even asking is doing in my opinion) isn't going to change that.

As I am the one who responded to the support ticket I can say this... The question which was asked in the support ticket was phrased so differently from this original post that I felt comfortable answering it. The original post was asking something which I did not feel comfortable answering. I will never, be it on the forums or in a support ticket, make a promise or commitment that I don't know can be kept, just as an example.

[brainbasher]

tks for posting the reply from ticket Rasp..i too had concerns about the apparent direction of this game.

[Raspewtin]

Thanks for the clarification Velea. I'll try to be better in my future posts.

For everyone else - here's the support ticket text:

"T4 loot appears broken after the last patches. For example - in killing 20 jade golems now, 2 trophies, 6 completly empty, 3 forms, 3 minor hoard items (bells) and some lockets. I read that jade golems loot tables were cleaned up or tweaked, so I'm thinking went too far on this one. I'm hearing that other t4 mobs loot is similarly affected, but I haven't tested a lot of others personally.

Is this already on a list to be looked at? If not, can you advise if it could be added?

Thanks."

As to Velveeta's intentions, and Velea's thoughts on it. I'd hazard my own opinion.

The dev are tough and can take criticism, and they don't need Velveeta - or anyone else - defending them in forums or anywhere else. The post I made, while may have been annoying to Velveeta, and apparently less than what Velea was comfortable answering, wasn't directed to Velveeta, so clearly wasn't intended to annoy her. Although it apparently did.

I feel Velveetas comments were unfair, and as she did direct the comments to me, instead of about the subject, and wasn't respectful when responding directly to me, so she really is harassing me, according to my understanding of the forums rules and TOS of the game.

By way of example, I think Chrissy said it very well to illustrate the disrepectful point: "So I think it's up to us to make it clear what is and isn't working for us. Saying things lke "be patient" and "leave them to do what they do" and "don't play if you don't like it" isn't helpful, in fact it's counter to the point, that devs need feedback to know what they ought to be doing." I also don't see how that is saying simply to not bump posts. That point from Velea I can understand - Velveeta just wasn't saying that clearly.

To the devs, and just in case I am wrong and you aren't as tough as I think. My apologies if my first post was offensive. In retrospect, several days after the post (and the discovery that my toon wasn't going to be leveling his 5th class as quickly as expected), my feelings aren't as strong as they were at the time. So the tone of the support ticket moderated, as my feelings had.

I like the tough devs, able to take criticism story better though. And I really think it's true.

[Chrissi]

I don't feel that she was trolling, nor do I feel as though she was telling anyone to not post, not ask questions, or even saying "don't play if you don't like it".

Actually, she/he said almost exactly that:

leave the devs to do what they do. they will answer or not. if you don't like the game, don't play. if you like the game, keep playing.

As for the intention that topics shouldn't be repeatedly bumped if getting no reply, I disagree, and I also don't see that coming across in velveeta's message, but nevermind that...

Even if that's what they mean, I am pretty sure that if I had a problem and was waiting for an answer I'd keep bumping until I got some sort of answer. In this case, Raspe is waiting for an answer from devs. Didn't get it. So asks again in case they missed it.

And obviously got it since you replied... so doesn't matter so much anymore

[velveeta]

not sure if i should respond - i never can tell if i will make things worse or not...

so i think i will take velgod's advice to us all and not say anything.

if anyone (notice i am not directing this post at a particular person) is interested in a rebuttal, please feel free to pm me.

thanx for your responses, everyone

[Velea]

And obviously got it since you replied... so doesn't matter so much anymore

Like Velveeta, I'm not sure I should respond to this or not...

However, I'm going to act stupidly on purpose and do so...

I feel I should point out that no, no developer has responded to the original question in this post. I feel it important to point out that I responded to

• whether velveeta's advice was trolling... I still don't feel it was and feel it is being mis-interrupted

• how bumping a thread repeatedly really isn't going to get you anywhere (and in fact really pisses me off, but that's a personal annoyance I have learned to live with on multiple forums, not just here)

• the fact that the support ticket which I responded to was not the original question in this thread, and thus I was in essence misquoted.

This may seem minor and nitpicky to some, but to me it is important because I do not want to in any way support the bumping of a thread trying to get someone to respond... It's a huge pet peeve of mine when people do that on any forum, whether I'm the "developer being harassed" or not.

[velveeta]

• ... I still don't feel it was and feel it is being mis-interrupted

hey vel, no prob!! i LOVE being mis-interrupted!!!!

[medweasel]

I think people are too used to wow's forums were trolling is the rule and not the exception. I have never seen anyoneone troll here before. I still maintain that this is a troll free zone. The Dragons would just burn the trolls anyway. Not to say there might not be someone here and there that might not come through to make trouble but like I said.....the Dragons.

[Chrissi]

This may seem minor and nitpicky to some, but to me it is important because I do not want to in any way support the bumping of a thread trying to get someone to respond... It's a huge pet peeve of mine when people do that on any forum, whether I'm the "developer being harassed" or not.

Is that really not acceptable on these forums? Sorry, it's just that on all the other forums I've been on, if nobody replies in a couple of weeks (or, depending on the speed of the forum, a couple of days) it's pefectly fine to bump it, after all, if nobody can see it then nobody can reply.

But I guess of course there are different customs in different places, and if it's not appropriate here, I apologize for carelessly passing it off.

[LOVWYRM]

If I am new in any social group soever,
I try to find out first who is who, and who is he/she.
And how does this social group work- written and unwritten rules.
This is an important step towards integration.


*links arms with Velveeta and walkes out of this thread- "none of our kin" *

[Lillyjo]

Its only polite and nice to respond to a post if you can give good information, not bad and not getting personal peeves into things..they dont belong here.

I expect when i ask a question a polite and helpful answer for me to understand why some things are happening and not disrespect and go else where type of answer from anyone. if you can't help just keep quiet.

Lillyjo_chaos server

[Chrissi]

If I am new in any social group soever,
I try to find out first who is who, and who is he/she.
And how does this social group work- written and unwritten rules.
This is an important step towards integration.


*links arms with Velveeta and walkes out of this thread- "none of our kin" *

That's easy to say, not so easy to do when you've never encountered anyplace with a particular custom, it's easy to assume everyone does it that way, personally I don't see a reason not to bump old topics that have not yet garnered an appropriate reply, since otherwise I am left wondering...

You also assume I haven't lurked and modified my posting style to suit this new environment. Of course I have.

I found that last comment particularly offensive by the way - the disdain and superiority you feel is apparent and I won't say more about it except that I don't see a reason to be so haughty especially toward a newbie who is trying her hardest to be polite and respectful while still being an active participant. I guess you could say I am bold and will not be trampled over just because I am new.

[Creme]

I guess you could say I am bold and will not be trampled over just because I am new.

In all sincerity, good luck with that. You'll find this game is not that kind to those that don't play in the manner the "masses" expect.

[Chrissi]

In all sincereity, good luck with that. You'll find this game is not that kind to those that don't play in the manner the "masses" expect.

Oh, I didn't mean at all that I'm not trying to fit in and play analogous to the current environment, I really love how friendly and courteous everyone is and I don't want to disrupt the current environment! My "bold and won't be trampled on" comment was just in regards to the remark by LOVWYRM, there is really no need for that and I am not going to just roll over and let him/her be so rude toward me without saying anything.

[Creme]

Yes, that includes rolling over, it is expected by some that you do exactly that

[Chrissi]

Yes, that includes rolling over, it is expected by some that you do exactly that

Haha.. I guess with that one I won't be learning to do like everyone else.

[Drevar]

I'm no public relations expert, but I can gaurantee you, after over a decade of playing and posting in MMORPG forums, the absolute best way to be sure of not getting a dev or CM response is to directly call them out and demand one.

The best way to communicate a personal gripe is via private message, preferably a support ticket. I have found that even if you are a bit crass and it is more of a complaint or whine, a support ticket will be answered (probably not to your satisfaction, but an answer at least) while making a scene in public will not.

I was suprised this didn't get moved to rants, as the OP was more rant (vs the devs and veteran players) rather than a simple inquiry.

Drev