Breathing Life into the Economy

[Frith-Rae]

As I have said before in many other threads discussing the "economy" or lack thereof, the economy will fix itself once there are more players.

As I have said before in many other threads discussing the "economy" or lack thereof, the economy will fix itself once there are more players. That would be wrong, and in all my time being part of this game, I have never seen any indication that the playerbase is going to suddenly increase. It's silly to pin your hopes on a solution that requires something that is probably never going to happen.

While I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that a bigger player population would "fix" some (not all) of our economy issues - I do agree that waiting for this "fix" is somewhere in the "probably not going to happen at a significant rate to fix the economy" area. The odds of this game having the numbers to "fix" the economy I'd put at pretty slim - not because its not a good game but because due to its age, mechanic issues, grind-fest its always going to be small.

Therefore, whatever tweaks/addons/changes to the game always need to account for "doesn't need a large population to fix/be appropriate."

And new players find out pretty quick in this game that to get equipment they either need to level up crafting themselves, or join a guild/find friends who can help them make what they want. (which will either mean its for free or at a discount) Thereby the circle of "bad economy" continues.

And I'm with Shian, I'm not so hot on the "whatever you need/make it becomes bound" philosophy either. Either work on developing dependencies (ala the confection and scholar changes where classes offer something others need consistently) or work on self-sufficiency (bound crafted items to me are counter-dependency).

And this question goes out to the confectioners - do you honestly make money on what you create? Does it create a self-sustaining sub-economy? Or is this school such a reptitive grind-fest that what you get paid for the time you spent means its not worth it (other than you enjoy doing it and providing a service) - and its actually not helping the economy at all?

I would think such feedback would actually help determine wether the devs steps in making more schools/items like this school actually do HELP and IMPROVE the playerbase and economy - and not just put in more grind.

[Unicorn's Lady]

And this question goes out to the confectioners - do you honestly make money on what you create? Does it create a self-sustaining sub-economy? Or is this school such a reptitive grind-fest that what you get paid for the time you spent means its not worth it (other than you enjoy doing it and providing a service) - and its actually not helping the economy at all?

I would think such feedback would actually help determine wether the devs steps in making more schools/items like this school actually do HELP and IMPROVE the playerbase and economy - and not just put in more grind.

I've been a 100 level Confectioner for at least a year now and I provide a large selection of foodstuffs at my large tavern in Carmo on the Order Server (T2-T6 & upper level Festival Foods), the Kion Tavernkeeper (T1), and the New Trismus Consigner (lower level Festival Foods). To answer your question, I think I am slowly making money and may earn a gold in about 5 years. I definately am not doing this to get rich, I am providing a service.

My prices for Order are moderate, not too high nor do I give it away (well, not usually; some special events like Shian's Storytime are a different matter). Here is my price structure since Oct. 2008:

Awdz came up with this for me when I asked her for pricing help (Thanks again Awdz! )
T1 -- 1c per minute
T2 -- 2c
T3 -- 4c
T4 -- 6c
T5 -- 8c
T6 -- 12c


I decided to add to this basic pricing these things:

• If there are purchased items (such as vanilla beans or cocoa beans) the cost is added to the food item.
  
  • So for Sslanisian Chocolate Fudge my price would be: 1c x 8 min. + 500c (10 Cocoa beans) = 508c

• If there are rare ingredients such as a rare meat (squirrel), rare seafood (swordfish, clams), rare veggie (chili peppers), and/or a rare garnish (garlic, fennel) I add the basic tier price per ingredient item as a "Pain in the Posterior" tax.
  
  • So for Anima's Blueberry Fennel Cake my price would be: 6c x 45 min. + 6c x 4 Fennel = 294c

And of course for Kakashi's Swordfish my price would be: 4c x 60 min. + 4c x 16 Swordfish + 4c x 8 Fennel + 150c (1 Olive oil) = 486c

With the new attuning system my sales in the mid-range (T2-T3) have trickled down to almost nil. The new folk just aren't finding Carmo anymore until They are much higher. (They weren't great to begin with, but there has been a marked change)
I hope this info helps.


Nellie Lovett of Carmo on Order

[Kenaut]

my two cents in coin spending ideas:
- every item is breakable
- monsters and crafting can hurt your stuff even more (critical blows etc)
- too low skill can hurt your stuff even more
- common items are more fragile than rare ones
- repairs are little bit expensive than item itself
- consigners are tiered and specialised (gates will get few coins)
- player owned vendors requires wages
- new abilities are given by trainers for coins or quests
- add casino with blackjack and sluts? =)

[Mearis]

I hate equipment ware & tear. Having to repair your equipment after every fight, or repair your tools every time you craft would be a huge burden. While it would dispose of more coin, I do not think it would be a good thing for the game as a whole.

[Kenaut]

I hate equipment ware & tear. Having to repair your equipment after every fight, or repair your tools every time you craft would be a huge burden. While it would dispose of more coin, I do not think it would be a good thing for the game as a whole.

thats the balance issue, make repairs after each fight or once a month should decide player himself by choosing between junk equipment looted from low level enemy and someones good quality crafted item
such system will make players to buy more stuff, that brings more fun and good for the economy

[LOVWYRM]

*flamebursts Kenaut*

upps- sry-- what was I going to say?

uhhm- ah yes: I do not like this idea

[Mearis]

While I see the need for us to need to use more coin I do not believe it should be done by changing anything existing in game as it is now. I think it should be a new project (see my post on the first page) or maybe adding a new vendor with all new items. Like plot decorations that have to be bought instead of built for example.

[Kenaut]

I do not like this idea

here the example: few years ago there were the game called star wars galaxies and there were player driven economy (almost no vendor items, like we have in Istaria) with breakable stuff and it was really cool, then greedy developers remade that game to be more "user friendly" and around 50% crafters left the game immediately! just because items became unbreakable, so this small nasty feature has huge impact on the game economy and must be not ignored in such cases imo

and btw... trading is fun! =)

[Shian]

here the example: few years ago there were the game called star wars galaxies and there were player driven economy (almost no vendor items, like we have in Istaria) with breakable stuff and it was really cool, then greedy developers remade that game to be more "user friendly" and around 50% crafters left the game immediately! just because items became unbreakable, so this small nasty feature has huge impact on the game economy and must be not ignored in such cases imo

and btw... trading is fun! =)

Subsequently, I'm sure just as many Istarian players would quit if the equipment it took them months to build (T5 scale sets, epic weapons etc.) suddenly had decay and could break.

Your statement is also grossly off. The 50% that left was not because of the decay factor, but because they changed the game system from MMO style to FPS.

You can't just put decay in a game that didn't start with it.

[Mearis]

Kenaut, SWG was fun, but the majority of people left due to SOE's horrible patching, and changing the game completely not once (CU) but twice (CU & NGE) since the game was intially released. Implementing deterioration of equipment and/or plots would do nothing but drive some of the dedicated player base away from Istaria. The only way to really fix the economy is to add something that is not yet in game, have them be something extremely desireable and costly. Like a special Saris Manor house with a bed in it.

[Kenaut]

again, thats the balance and implementation issue - T5 and rares may have huge amount of durability, newbie crafters however could find buyers for their stuff
and i was talking about 50% of swg crafters =) at least in my guild it was so

[Frith-Rae]

well I'm bored so I'll bite

my two cents in coin spending ideas:
- every item is breakable

As Shain said - when it can take months (or for slower players even years) to build a tier appropriate set - having such items break and become useless or have to be built up again - would be a disaster. Things in this game are enough of a grind, money isn't so important that things need to be double and triple more of a grind.

- monsters and crafting can hurt your stuff even more (critical blows etc)

Again, see above. And this isn't just for tier v/vi stuff. It can take a Teir I or Tier II player just as long to gather their components as it takes the tier VI person. Just cuz its Teir I doesn't make it less of a grind to gather components and build. And considering all the poor biped crafters who have to have multiple sets to build things - seriously not a good idea.

- too low skill can hurt your stuff even more

Again, bad idea. Since for many players they can't even GET their "current" tier gear until they've at least slightly outleveled it, and because it can take so long to get their next tier of gear they are getting levels on "old tier gear" (at 90 I have level 80 teir stuff for example) - this is also a bad idea. And the tiers are designed ot be 20 levels apart, so there is no "oh I'm 35 I need new gear from my level 30 stuff." That's a different type of game.

- common items are more fragile than rare ones

Define "rare" and "common". Players would probably argue that anything going into a crafted set that has to be hunted is "rare". Whereas anything built from regular crafting resources is "common". But what are drops exactly? And how does it effect pieces of gear that are combination of common and rare resources?

- repairs are little bit expensive than item itself

That would be crazy. If you are making your gear yourself the cost of that gear may be zippo but if you invest 3 weeks in a single scale or piece of gear, the cost is priceless. This would either abnormally drive DOWN the cost of a piece of gear, which would mean it is no longer worth the time and effort for people (who do have to spend the time and effor to make it) to SELL them, or repairs would cost so much that people would quit finding it absorbantly expensive to DO anything in game! Not really much point in playing if you can't afford it.

- consigners are tiered and specialised (gates will get few coins)

We use to have more connies, and they were all spread out and noone was connected so you had to visit 18 connies to try and find what you were looking for to know wether or not it was even being sold. The new way is better.

Specialized however would be fine - I like the fact that there are tech comp only connies (though people still put comps up on the regular connie..). Not sure how that would solve the problem of economy though - just add NPCs .

- player owned vendors requires wages

No, Crafters, not adventurers, are normally the people in our game who are broke. This would just serve to add fees to those who are already broke. Whereas someone who is more adventuring with no vendors on their plot pays nothing.

- new abilities are given by trainers for coins or quests

For many this is already the case. Dragons quest for the majority of their abilities, for example.

[/quote]
- add casino with blackjack and sluts? =)[/quote]

Well sluts would change the game's ratings . And there are already gambling machines in game - though I don't know that they take coin.

All of these suggestions Kenaut have to do with taking money OUT of the players hands, when really I think its a bigger problem that most players need to have more money PUT into their hands. Providing more money sinks to try and drive the economy is NOT the way to go.

Certainly not with these suggestions. Stuff like that would kill this game. Its enough of a grind to make your own gear. Its difficult enough for some of us to even spend an afternoon killing without getting ooberfrustrated (due to the whole mob popping on to of you engine) and a pile of Death Points we then have to spend time sitting and waiting for them to tick off or spend money we don't have on piles and piles of dozens of pieces of food.

Making equipment breakable just adds insult to injury. What works in other games doesn't necessarily work in Istaria. Istaria mechanics are...pretty dang unique. For good and bad.

[velveeta]

o gods, please, no wear and tear. please no. i beg you on my arthritic knees....think of the time its gonna take me to get back up on my feet! do not let my sacrifice be in vain!

[Vandellia]

Value is innate and in this virtual world entirely in the eye of the beholder I find money difficult to get and am reluctant to spend it i dont have deep pockets. dont change the way it works by modifying existing game strengths add new and exciting perhaps unique thing into game . for example to each plot add a 1x wiide paramiter that we could plant flowers tht we could customise the look they could last for a specific season and then fade out and require replacement or some sort of maintenance to keep them from dissappearing or a new seasonal type of plant. the ability to customise your plot to a unique look is a sure fire method of stimulating the economy but it has to be reasonably priced or its not worth the effort. Id willingly pay for a "garden" so i could grow some of my vegetables for confectioner school, could we not create new gardens that a player could use inginuity or some skill then harves it and sell flowers for placement it our plots? the idea is creat new methods with desire to spend not nurf the living tar out of existing systems.

[Arietna]

I really like this idea. I remember what a pain it was to run around the connies to see if anyone had put just 5-10 bars that I needed to finish something off, to no avail. Having to then go out and gather just a small amount to finish off a project was something I hated doing.

I also think the idea of a "grocer" or something in an inn situation who would buy (and sell at a markup, or perhaps a connie equivalent) the processed raw materials - eg sugar - so that people who wanted to level gatherer on foodstuffs without being a confectioner could have somewhere other than a regular consigner to sell on (because no one looks there)...