RE: Slate Fields and Dragon Stone Fields

[Dhalin]

Since Amon locked the thread (really REALLY wish he would stop doing that) in mid-conversation, I'm starting another thread on a similar subject.

What he didn't give us _time_ to say before he locked a thread on a subject that was _not_ done being talked about, was this:

The only decent thing for Dragons to level DCRA on, is Stone Scales.

Hear me out here.

What can a dragon level DCRA on?

Spells: You need two different materials to do these past Tier 1. Most dragons do T1 spells and then start Stone Scales when they can do Tier 2 good enough.

Scales: You either do Metal or Stone, or Metal-Stone scales. Metal-Stone scales are plain annoying and take a long time for a not reasonable reward; and Metal past tier 2 has that annoying "2 unique, 3 resource per bar at max efficiency" aspect, that makes it unattractive to work with. So, those who do scales tend to want to do Stone scales, as you only ever need 2 slabs per brick.

Gems: If I wanted to level Miner, I'd do so on a biped.... once you make the gems, what are you going to do with them? Add to the fact there's a complete lack of a gemcutter anywhere near any Tier4 gem, and you got a no-go.

Anything else: Too many materials needed. Claws, Scalepacks, etc...

So, we're stuck with Stone Scales.

That's OK usually, but... let's re-iterate the fact we are doing scales. Doing scales requires a Scaleforge, or, an Anvil work in a pinch (but will not give you Scalecraft bonus).

So, we need an ANVIL or a SCALEFORGE near a Stone field. How many areas fit the bill for this?

On Order:

Tier 2:

Snowfall did, at last on Order.
Scorpion Island? Nope.
Abandoned Island? Not last I checked.
Lesser Aradoth? I don't even remember there being slate in Lesser Aradoth..
Dalimond Peninsula? Never checked, but there'd have to be a player-built machine, as there's never Ore and Stone right next to each other.

Tier 3:

Aughundell? Nope. Not unless you want to fight Level 50 mobs and spend 5+ minutes running back up to the Granite Field after dropping down to the anvil down in there. I think there's an anvil down in there anyways...

Drift Point: Currently on Order there's a player plot there that allows this. Everyone knows, though, that these can disappear at any time.

Not sure where else Granite is found...

Tier 4: Obsidian: South of Dralk is perfect.

So, my point with the Slate, and why so many dragons are upset with this, is because it was one of _the_ few places where it could be feasibly done. So, my suggestion is...

Either add a couple more non-player dragon caves near some of these resources to bridge the Tier2 and Tier3 gaps, or, change how Scalecrafting is handled. There are far too few anvils near stone, for dragons to level their DCRA efficiently.

The Snowfall Slate field empties out if you got 2-3 hatchlings trying to level their DCRA on Stone scales. They _could_ do Iron, but there's only 1 place in the game I know of, that allows for this (that has a smelter AND anvil) and it is pretty out-of-the-way and difficult to get to, and harder still to explain to a newbie.

That, and if you're in Tier2, gearing yourself for +Smelting and +Mining, you'll hit Tier 3 and have to switch over to +Quarrying and +Stoneworking instead, for the stone scales.

We wouldn't be so upset about the Snowfall Slate Field, if you'd fix the Scalecrafting problem. That could *easily* be done by adding one dragon craft cave (doesn't even have to have all of the machines -- JUST a cutter and scaleforge would do) near at least 1 decent-sized, unguarded Slate and another near a similar Granite field. Make it a world project, even, to give people something to do.

Or, stash a couple anvils near aforementioned stonecutters. Easier still.

[AmonGwareth]

Dhalin, if you need an anvil and/or scaleforge go buy a plot and build one. Or find someone to do it. We won't be adding more for you. And I can guarantee 100% that the slate field at snowfall will not be beefed up UNLESS golems are added to it.

[Chasing]

Why was the spawn of slate at snowfall lowered in the first place?

Edit:

Increase the spawn and put golems there, if thats the only alternative to how things are now

[Lord Shinobai]

I too am wondering why the node spawn was lowered in the first place.

Moving past that though, if adding golems is the only way to increase this I'm sure most would accept this, some reluctantly and others upset, but still accept it nonetheless.

I would hope that the spawn rate for the golems would be low and limited considering you are adding the golems to an already existing (and some would consider randomly nerfed) field and the intention is to offset the increase and not turn people off from using the location.

[Shian]

Dhalin, if you need an anvil and/or scaleforge go buy a plot and build one. Or find someone to do it. We won't be adding more for you. And I can guarantee 100% that the slate field at snowfall will not be beefed up UNLESS golems are added to it.

What? Where? There are plots on AI, SI and the Aug mine that can hold a stoneworker and anvil/forge? Sign me up to buy and build! Oh.. wait. Nevermind.

I also vote for adding golems if it means we don't have to fight each other for the ONLY place one can actually level DCRA.

[Knossos]

Hopefully any potential "beefing up" of the Snowfall slate field will include substantially more fixed nodes (hopefully a ml and some rich ones) rather than simply the "walking" nodes.

Knossos

[AmonGwareth]

Hopefully any potential "beefing up" of the Snowfall slate field will include substantially more fixed nodes (hopefully a ml and some rich ones) rather than simply the "walking" nodes.

Knossos

Actually, no beefing up is going to occur. It will remain as is. There are LOTS of other locations to gather slate from in Istaria. Some are even near towns that can have plots built up on them.

[Gimbold]

Actually, no beefing up is going to occur. It will remain as is. There are LOTS of other locations to gather slate from in Istaria. Some are even near towns that can have plots built up on them.

Can you please fix the broken machine at Slate Crest then.

[Blue Hasia]

what what the reason why you lowered the spawn count in the first place....and talking about the slate nodes the nodes in snowfall done even give out an avg amount of slabs. most other places i can gather 130-150 per node but in snowfall i only get an avg of 70-90 per node.

their seems to be a wave in this game of forcing us players to scatter around the world. i like going to gather slate in snow fall also because i get to see other people wave hi and have a conversation with them

[Shian]

Slate crest isn't worth working.

Even if the nearest lair had a stoneworker and an anvil, the nodes are 10-15m apart + a compounded distance away from the machine. That and the terrain is not hatchie friendly at all. In order to get to the nearest lair, you have to walk around hills that hatchies cannot climb. Ditto for the machine that is nested within a hill. Not exactly the ideal working conditions like snowfall has. Not including the golems that pose yet another difficulty.

There's no anvil on AI period and no plot for silos.

You cannot tell us "Just go to another field" when the other areas are counter productive. In short, difficult to work when there is a far easier place to go. Why work in a place built for mountain goats when you can work a flat field?

Scorpion Bay was the only place we found that had near the conditions of Snowfall. The nearest lair there is 471m away from the site and the nodes are close to the machine. The current distance to get from Snowfall to Mahagra's anvil is 463m away. There's some golems, but at least the terrain is usable.

Anyone got a plot they can dedicate to a new field?

[velveeta]

it is well known that i have always been a horizons fanboi, loud and proud baybee....
and maybe i am too set in my ways, but....
i am starting to feel like we players who have stayed thru thick and thin are being punished for our loyalty.
change things if you must, but can we make them more addition than subtraction? if the snowfall slate field was fine all these years, what could be the reason to diminishing it now?
to stay on target and not get deleting again, i will not bring up the other things that i am disturbed by....
not even the company that cannot be named drove me this close to considering what a life without istaria would be like....

i don't expect a response, i know how the game is played, but all i can say as a warning (hopefully not a prophecy), is that all good things come to an end.......

[Holth]

Ok, time for me to say something here.

The slate in Snowfall used to be a huge spawn. I've been in this game for over 6 years and there is no question that it is considerably smaller now. There are plots very close to it and on both Order and Chaos folks have built stoneshops, blacksmith shops, vaults and public silos for player use. Many players use the area to level and for building resources. This has all been said already.

What hasn't been said Amon, is how your comment on the last post to the thread you locked came across to me. "Some of those dragons should find another place to mine" To me at least, that read "Go play somewhere else".

I have spent a considerable amount of time in the last year trying to get people to try Istaria. It's a hard game to play, with a very difficult learning curve. Most folks that try it don't stay. It's been said over and over that what makes this game so unique is the community of players. And in my book if a bunch of dragons want to get together and quarry stone in Snowfall like we used to do years ago, they should be able to. They should not be told "Go find another place to play". Because they will - they'll go find another game to play.

Istaria needs places like the Snowfall slate field, the steelsilk outside Harro, the radiant wisps and other such places where folks will go to gather resources to be large spawns. This encourages lots of players to work in one place and work together. It encourages them to talk to each other and get to know the rest of the player base. After all, this is an MMO not a console game. Right now if I need steelsilk or radiants and another player is already harvesting the field I will leave and go do something else because there is not enough spawn for 2 people to comfortably gather. If I need slate I go to AI and haul it all the way around the island so I don't take away from the small spawn in Snowfall. Most folks don't have the amount of playtime I do so I just go somewhere else or come back later when they are done.

If this game were to suddenly grow a bigger player base (hundreds of players on at once) you will have to add more resources everywhere or there will be such crowding in the fields people will leave. When the game first came out each major city had spawns of tier 1 and 2 resources around them. Now there are only a few small fields of the tier 2 resources that are close to machines. No one wants to run all the way around AI to make slate blocks. Or run all the way into Augh to make iron sheets. Please think about this.

Leveling crafting classes is hard and very time consuming. It took me 5 years to get my Grand Master Crafter title and I play way more than most of the player base. All we are asking for is to make crafting a bit more fun and lessen some of the grind. Give folks a chance to socialize and chat as they work. And if this keeps folks in the game and makes new players feel they are a part of the community instead of working by themselves WHY WOULD YOU BE AGAINST DOING THAT??

Thaalia of Order

[LOVWYRM]

sad enough, I have to agree to you Velveeta.
I feel the same.
Others do as well.
Long term players, who weren`t that close to Istaria like we are, have already left. Though I thought they never will.
I agree with Chasing, who said in another thread, that its the vet players who keep the game alive atm.
Which gives us no priviledges, I know(but we do not deserve rude answers) .
And its more than fair to give that warning.

Edit: Well spoken Thaalia, thank you

[Sigi]

change things if you must, but can we make them more addition than subtraction?

so true! and because that was to short: I so do agree!

[Akrion]

Why say this:

Dhalin, if you need an anvil and/or scaleforge go buy a plot and build one. Or find someone to do it. We won't be adding more for you. And I can guarantee 100% that the slate field at snowfall will not be beefed up UNLESS golems are added to it.

If you're going to say this:

Actually, no beefing up is going to occur. It will remain as is. There are LOTS of other locations to gather slate from in Istaria. Some are even near towns that can have plots built up on them.

Why even bring it up in the first place?

[Raisty]

I really enjoy crafting and not as much adventuring so my comments will come from that view point. Be warned! Also, I do love this game and while I tried to tone down this post so it isn't a complete rant I think it has to be said and other crafters just aren't getting their point across in this thread.


Right now if you wanted to level up adventurer you will always find people who will make you gear. You can even fight without the best gear just scraps you find lying around and blighted gear makes this even easier! Not saying this is preferred... but it is possible.

But if you want to level crafting you have to plan out what classes to take. Just so you can get near resources that aren't guarded. Then when the crafters complain that a spawn area is reduced your only comment is "we'll add mobs" What I hear as a crafter is: "So either be happy with the spawn as it is, or find somewhere else, or adventure so you can beat up mobs while trying to grind out this tier for 3 weeks"

You do still realize you have a second set of people who play this game with adventure being a side thought. We like to craft and build. Since at this point anyone who plays this game just to adventure does not have to craft. Why are you trying to make it so anyone who plays this game to craft has to adventure?

Of course I don't expect to get near t5 and t6 resources without being able to defend myself. Just as I expect any high level adventurer will eventually take up crafting if for no other reason then to make perfect sets of teched gear. But still it used to be that you needed a crafter to make you gear to adventure. This was changed with blighted gear. So now all you need from a crafter is spells.

Is this the current goal of the game? Make sure crafting is an after thought to adventurers? After coming back from a break and starting a new character that is what it seems like to me. Just like most mmorpgs out there.

(this post didn't even get into the fact that you have to adventure to afford jman forms, the pawn broker nerfs that make it harder for crafters to get silver...)

[Blue Hasia]

What hasn't been said Amon, is how your comment on the last post to the thread you locked came across to me. "Some of those dragons should find another place to mine" To me at least, that read "Go play somewhere else".

thats what i see sometimes also. to me it says we dont care for those that play the game long term we only care for those that buy a months sub and then leave.

[Nambroth]

I'm going to chime in with a great big 'I agree' blanket with pretty much everything the other players have said here.

Change things if you must, but for good reasons. If it's a big enough change to warrant this many upset players, be prepared to explain why... nicely.

Otherwise... it's just going to cause us to get all frustrated and angry, which isn't good for us players and it's not good for you folks (devs and the folks that run the game). I personally have brought dozens of players to this game over the years and I find myself increasingly questioning if I should continue-- not just because of changes (change happens, I get that, no problem), but because of the nature of some of the changes (why make things less enjoyable if there is no good reason for it?) and especially because of how it is handled with the players.
There is a lot of good, cool stuff that goes into this game. I do appreciate and respect that very much... possibly more than I can say given my own personal work and contributions to the fluff in the game. But sometimes all the candy in the world cannot clear out a bitter taste.

Just food for thought from an increasingly frustrated long-time player. Best wishes.

[Kulamata]

I'm reminded of the Lesser Aradoth iron and silver fields that used to be above Parsinia. You usually came up from Kion, past a very nice little gem hut and mini-field. Quite a bit of iron, silver, two fields, smelting and crafting facilities, all in a compact area bordered by a neat little ghost town and spider fields. The first fyakki I ever saw would come visiting along the road; in the upper field, the visitors were golems and their keepers that would wander down. Enigmatic blackbirds flew past occasionally, and the Huntress was feared.

And the place was packed. A wide range of levels had good reasons to be there. Armor sales and guild recruiting throve. I saw the first dragons to complete their ROP there. In those days, you could cast tier III (!!!) Crown of Thorns on a youngling, who'd take great delight in slaughtering a few spiders. Something bright and vivid has been misplaced; I don't know of any place now that is not pretty level-specific. And given how few players there are at any intermediate tier, let alone level...

I do think that it would be a worthwhile experiment to try a few areas with resources of interest to both dragons and 'peds of a couple of tiers, and moderately close processing and crafting equipment.

Yes, with such a center, leveling would be easier. But then, I've never heard of anyone leaving Istaria because the leveling was too easy...

[velveeta]

amen to all, kula, most especially your closing lines....