Who really is the player base?

[Riaken]

I see alot of stuff for lower lvl people, but all I see in game, me being one on Chaos, is lvl 100 dragons, pure crafters and high rating peds. There are a few lower lvl newbs in New Tris, but I'm guessing they just alts or mules or RP'rs.

It's hard to get groups going for epic mob hunts, mostly because this game is very solo friendly which I like. If you put new content in game make it for those types of people. Heck, have kill tasks of hard mobs for a special gambling tokens that we can turn in for a rare chance at fluff or an uber tech for armor or weapon. It's so bad for me I get moist when a mace of intervention drops. It's so bad I'm a B- crafter, meaning i have all my crafts to at least lvl 80. I loathe crafting btw.

Put hidden triggers for tasks or quests in Istaria like the old confectioner quests that dropped of mobs.

Put in experince potions in game that are rare to help with leveling our other schools. You know, drink pot get 1 million xp in current school. And for the love of GOD, don't attune them. Make it tedious, hard to get, heck even frustrating but please give us veterans some challenge. Cause every mob in this game is easy to kill, or insanely impossible to solo. For me anyways.

Probally should have put this in rant, but it's worth a shot.

[Shian]

They just put a ton of level 100 stuff. Dralnoks Doom remember?

[Riaken]

Yes, I remember that last year.

[Akrion]

Yes, I remember that last year.

That was actually quite a massive content update for the size of the team, and probably one of the biggest updates Istaria had received for a long time. There's no way they'll be able to do that yearly along with other things they have in mind.

While I still think they could do with not making some changes so drastic for the sake of their existing community, they still have to make stuff in hopes of drawing in and holding new players as well.

[Shinkuu]

However, there ARE newer players like myself who currently find things INCREDIBLY frustrating. When I blow my entire coin stock on just a few forms for basic TOOLS (not weapons), that I need to continue my crafting to TRY to keep up with my Adv levels, it does not seem so easy to me.

Sure, there needs to be more end-game content. There needs to be more content all around eventually. All MMORPG's do well with new content when well implemented.

Right now they have been adding a lot of new things. New crafting, some neat scrolls which they have improved now, new higher end Tinkering etc. They are also trying to fix a lot of things and that is a HUGE task but it needs their attention almost more so than new content and I am glad they keep working on it.

However, the counter to your argument is that a lot of the player base right now may be older but IF we want more people to come to the game we want their beginning journey to feel rewarding enough to keep them here. This game is still very unfriendly to starting players. Economically Istaria needs to keep attracting new blood but even as a community it is good to encourage new people to come and play with us. It helps us expand our play and enjoy it more. So I see no problem with making the lower end of things (which needs a lot of work) better and a little more friendly.

That said I do not always agree with how the Devs go about it but I feel they are trying to make a positive difference regardless and applaud their efforts as they keep working on both improvements and just fixing what was left to them.

[LOVWYRM]

Though I respect your request, Riaken:

Lots of my friends (all vet. players-that means 5 years +/-) left the game in the course of time. But nobody of them left because of boredom or absence of new content. And we (my friends from Unity and Order-can`t speak for Chaos)
are still busy everyday. Not that we are fan boys and girls, who accept all and everything - there is a lot we could and would dicuss about- but its not the absence of new content for high level players.

Most important for me is: Keep new players in game, help them to learn to know Istaria, so they can walk alone.
And
Encourage the middle level players (40-80) to reach the top.
I use to tell them, that the fun starts with level 100^^and I mean that .

So sad to see so many give up. I have no idea why.
But that is why we have so many vet and high rating players- compared with low- level.

[Riaken]

New players don't stay cause of the grind that's ahead of them. When you can plvl a toon in WoW in a few weeks, or get a lvl 50 in DaoC off of ebay, but this game is way different. I always help people with low lvl gear and offer to kill mobs for trophys. But let's face it most people want it fast and now, and this game is not that. So those that are left are the lifers that have the rare items, powerful xstals and have much invested in the game.
I can't speak for crafters or rp'ers, but as an adventurer I want purpose. Dralnoks doom was way awesome, spent 6 months in there killing and even lvl'd an alch for the new dyes. Hunting for the stun 4 tech was a great idea, put stuff in game that's rare or hidden for us killing stuff players. On Chaos theres alot of those kind of players.

[Venge]

It's not the length of the game thats the problem, or the amount of time it takes to get to 100. It is the sheer monotony of killing the same mob, or walking that some ore for the 78 millionth time.

And your right, I want purpose too. In the old days there was a war that screamed purpose. Technically it's still there I guess but really it's faded into the background. I don't feel a purpose or excitement enough to try and get to that 79 millionth bit of ore.

Venge Sunsoar

[lightning claw]

New players don't stay cause of the grind that's ahead of them. When you can plvl a toon in WoW in a few weeks, or get a lvl 50 in DaoC off of ebay, but this game is way different. I always help people with low lvl gear and offer to kill mobs for trophys. But let's face it most people want it fast and now, and this game is not that. So those that are left are the lifers that have the rare items, powerful xstals and have much invested in the game.
I can't speak for crafters or rp'ers, but as an adventurer I want purpose. Dralnoks doom was way awesome, spent 6 months in there killing and even lvl'd an alch for the new dyes. Hunting for the stun 4 tech was a great idea, put stuff in game that's rare or hidden for us killing stuff players. On Chaos theres alot of those kind of players.

@Riaken i sign your post and second it 100 %

It's not the length of the game thats the problem, or the amount of time it takes to get to 100. It is the sheer monotony of killing the same mob, or walking that some ore for the 78 millionth time.

And your right, I want purpose too. In the old days there was a war that screamed purpose. Technically it's still there I guess but really it's faded into the background. I don't feel a purpose or excitement enough to try and get to that 79 millionth bit of ore.

Venge Sunsoar

@ Venge Sunsoar you hit the nail dead on the head And thank-you for shouting what the community wants!!! Sadly your cry's will fall on deaf ears the team has chosen to move things the way they want to and ignoring the screams for the continuation of the war . However they are indeed helping the game for the few remaining old timers Doom , and the t revamps and the various amounts of fluff that have entered the game are indeed shoots of improvement but not what the community is craving . i have a few pms form developers telling me it aint gona happen ect
'

[Archaios_Glacies]

I would love to do that, sounds like it was a lot of fun. o.=.o

[LOVWYRM]

oh yes it was fun.
It was the very best I ever experienced in a mmorpg.

Though the devs say its not possible atm (and I can see why!)
I`m sure they`ve heard us and will keep it in mind.

Concerning leveling up:
If its only grinding (craft) or killing the same mobs (adv) then that this is what you made it . We have choices how to raise a char: A bit grinding and lots of learning and experiences- and fun!

Our game is challenging- its much more than:
-create a char- find a guild- pwlvl to max-raids- rdy.

This is why we (Istaria) are still here- we cant offer e.g. add ons if all players are "ready".

But we can offer something that is and always was more important to the playerbase: Multiclassing, craft system, dragons (and more as we all know) .

Besides other, you need patience, structured thinking/planing, kinda social competence to play our game.
I do not want to see that changed to "WoW style".
But I want new players and I want them to stay.

There must be a compromise.

[Frith-Rae]

Mmm, to a certain extent old games have a "set" population/player base. EQI isn't going to be new player haven, whatever other older games "first gen" so to speak that are still around (AO? UO still around? DAOC? I don't know anymore lol).

So unless that new player comes into the game with that mindset - realizing that the game IS "dated", that it was designed with a much different game-genre/growth in mind (EQI was the biggest game of the day, this was Pre-WoW, DAOC and AOs were contendahs! Before EVE's overhaul...) then they probably won't stay unless something hooks them (like the crafting or the dragons).

Heck, if it weren't for dragons *I* wouldn't be staying. Newer games (WoW and since technically..) offer much more content, polish, fluff, and other stuff for far, far, less grind - including crafting (EQII).

And for the same monthly fee. That is something that tweaks me, the full monthly fee for this game being the same as WoW or EQII or any other game out there (well EQII going f2p so actually this game will cost more ). I realize I guess the game has to do that to stay afloat, but to me the 9.99 monthly sub should really be the "full deal". I think it would help attract and keep those players who are "on the fence" and would like to play a dragon or have a plot - but don't see how this 14.95 game compares to the OTHER 14.95 a-month games.

I mean if I had to only play one game, as many do (through choice or necessity) I get much less grind in other games, which to me is more fun.

And I'm "old player" heh.

If I came to this game as a new player in the last year or two - it just couldn't compete (outside of the dragon).

It does take a "special" type of mindset starting the game in order to keep going. Probably at least 80% of today's "gamers" aren't going to be in this mindset, and they don't have to be and honestly I don't blame them.

The trick is finding more of those "Niche" gamers and getting their attention. Just free-form advertising isn't going to necessarily net you the "Stick with it" player.

Its kinda like watching old classics - for some of them part of the grab/goodness of the movie is putting it in its perspective for the time it was released/popular. It isn't necessarily that the movie is a "timeless classic" for its own sake, but made a classic because of what it was when it was released. And should be watched and appreciated on that level, in order to be "enjoyed." (Think.."Day of the Triffids" or other examples of just horrible movies that are considered classic and genre defining lol).

[Riaken]

I brought this up before, I'll bring it up again. I'm on Chaos server, and I see the same names everyday in New Player, MP,EpicBattles,Dragon and Crimson Dawn chat. The names I don't see are on my friends list of new players that I help greatly and they appreciate it equally by adding me as a friend. I have to walk them through it, making a friends list, so they know how. I too add these people to my friends list hoping to see them log on and ask how it's going in the land of Istaria.

I have 50ish people on my friends list since I came back a year ago to see their names next to an empty circle. The online circle that should be green when they are on. It's depressing to see people come for a bit and never return. There is no changing this game to be an easy level gring WoW like game to keep people interested. The only people I see all the time are the veterans, rating 200 plus, master crafters, returning vets and ancient dragons.

I tried Order server for kicks to only realize that either it's underpopulated or everyone is on anon. Probally a little of both, so I stayed in Chaos. I'm 90% Adventurer, which is probally a rare breed, and 9.99% crafter out of necessity. That .01% is my grouping with others to farm epic monsters or have chats. I spend almost all my time alone trying to kill as much as possible. I play to farm, make my toon stronger and adventure into Istaria discovering new changes.

My Rant? Stop these changes of attuning items, nerfing techs, changing drops of components, messing with the RPr's emotes, ninja'n in rare items(stun IV) without notice and whatever else I missed. Us veterans are your player base, and while many are happy just to be able to log into the game, you still have a duty to make us happy. I know you fix things in the game albeit you messed them up, you'll get more praise when you improve our lives and not take things away.

[Knossos]

*Takes a deep breath and hopes tomorrow will be a better day*.

Knossos

[LOVWYRM]

We- the vet players are the player base.
And this is both a blessing and a curse.
Istaria would be an empy place without us.
And the knowledge about the game we hold, is not written down anywhere.
Without us, new players could not play Istaria at all-cause there is nothing like a
player- manual (though there are other ressources, but you have to find them first). And what about testing blight updates without vets?
Not going to discuss if it was a loss for the spirit of Istaria, if we leave.

The curse is that- like in every overaged society- the inhabitants have extreme
qualms and concerns when it comes to changes (of the familiar environment) or innovations. We start to whine (me included^^) and threat to leave.
And that is a dangerous circle: Istaria can`t affort to loose too much vets- but it needs new players soon.
I trust in VI that they watch the market(s), that they know what to implement to make the game more attractive to a new generation of players. Things have to be done, even if it means that vets are annoyed and leave.
Its their responsibility, their decisions. And they are doing a great job!

And remember: Stagnation means Regress.

Maybe we can have a vision all together:
A modern Istaria with a fine playerbase of all levels- even if that means that we vets loose some of our hard earned priviledges, or that we have to get rid of routines and Istarian goodies that we hold dear since the very beginnings.
Do we have a choice?

O yes- we can die beautifully- on empty shards.

[Vahrokh]

And remember: Stagnation means Regress

This is a great truth. Even when I had two companies, "just" keeping them afloat equated to eventually lose them. There had to have constant effort and progress, else it's like sea-skying once the boat stops.

Istaria has some great flaws that prevented and prevent it from getting famous but most of all it's the daily reinforced knowledge that the game is in a downward slope.
Every day a little bit dies, every day the time Virtrium will decide the game just can't survive any more comes closer.

I am sorry for Amon, Amarie, Velea and all the other very hard working good guys, but your work is not enough.

There needs to be a long term vision and people who knows it'll come true.

Adding impressive content effectively delays the inevitable but that's it: delays.
That vision must be easily visible by the guy who just created his first character exactly like by the guy with 220 levels under his belt.

Only then, the new guy will possibly deal with the years '90 kind of difficulty at getting above level 30 (so frustrating: so little info / reference available, you get CRAZY to get your young spells done and then anything you do you aggro 2-3 mobs that just nuke you out of life and then back to walking there AND penalty. And spend days hoping someone of those bitter vets may help you. Not at questing, just at getting some teched gear done so you can try level up.

Only then, the bitter vet endures after he has farmed all the content for 10 times.
I think Istaria lost its chance the day it lost those things that were so popular for all of my old guildies.
Was it epics? No. Was it easy mode? Nope.

It was being able to cooperate all together to a greater objective, "the vision".
To me, Istaria peaked when the epic battles against WA happened, when game masters would make the game alive, when there were so many structures to build.

That fostered community, that gave an end to reach - the vision. People would happinly grind 10M sandstone bricks (yielding ZERO exp) to make the **** bridge fast, while they quitted once the 10M bricks were just to level up the next craft. Level after level with the objective of levelling up... No, it does not work like that. In any case once you "ding" the umpteenth lv 100 you are done. A screenshot and then boredom begins.

It's also why I quitted several times. My "vision" was to have fun with friends - they quit. My vision was to participate in something grandiose (even with lag and crashes) - it ceased. My vision was to learn every formula to be the best spellcrafter on ICE and then Unity and become rich. Economy died, all became free, "rich" is not an objective any more.

Now I have 3 subs (running since... years). Why? Because I have 1 lair and 2 plots. But wait - they are mostly incomplete. Why? Because I can't feel a vision pushing me to GRIND and GRIND MORE. Who do I make see my home since all my old friends left? What guarantees I finish my plots in 1 year and the next day Virtrium closes shops?

Istaria is a beautiful woman but with an inner cancer and she does not know about tomorrow. The best doctors work HARD and valiantly to save her, but every day she dims a bit.

I look at her and instead of joy I feel sadness. For what could have been, maybe for what could still be but we are impotent to steer such destiny so that "could be" turns in "will be".

What is the long term vision for Istaria? What are the plans to make it happen?

Until this question won't find an answer, a pall will enclose us all. Maybe it's the newest agent of the Blight, I don't know. But he is slowly winning.

[Teto Frum]

The biggest problem I see, is that what keeps so many of the people I know here, the current team believes (it appears at least to me) that those are the things that keep people from staying. Maybe a dozen or so vets leaving after each change doesn't seem like anything too worry about, but lots of us carry multiple subs and those numbers add up fast with a small player base.

[Riaken]

It was being able to cooperate all together to a greater objective, "the vision".
To me, Istaria peaked when the epic battles against WA happened, when game masters would make the game alive, when there were so many structures to build.

Recently players have been pulling epic mobs to Bris on Chaos server. I happened to be there when Faffy came a calling. What gave me chills of excitement was the emote "You sense danger in Bristigo". I thought this was a world notification and I quickly equipted my two hand beast of a weapon and went to the portals. There was faffy with many gifted fighting and fellow Istarians on the ground dead. I rezzed the first healer I saw and proceded to perfect spell thunder cloudV faffy. I was then invited to a group of fellow high rating toons to help with the scourge. Been awhile since I had that much fun. All my years of playing, month after beta, I rarely got to join epic battles. Some people squawked, and luckly the people who camp bris that like to appeal that kind of stuff were not logged on. Food was sold at the taveran for the many dp's we got. That was team work. Unfortunately I looted the mob so I could be incharge of the rolls. Them **** hides are attuned. I'll give the hide to guaran next patch after the fix.

[LOVWYRM]

Vahrokh, what an impressive post! Thank you for that.
Though I agree to nearly all you`ve said, its not as black as you paint it.
The game is still alife, and so is the community.
The Lady does not have cancer but a serious infection. She needs the RIGHT drugs to recover. But the medics (players/VI) have different opinions, which are the right therapies. And if they do not come to a conclusion fast, our beloved Lady might die, cause some docs refuse to try something new, or only care for their own ego/convenience. And all have to accept, that not all therapies that could help are available.
Go, and take a look at her- she`s still a beauty- and bring her some flowers and some vitamins

[Shinkuu]

T
So sad to see so many give up. I have no idea why.
But that is why we have so many vet and high rating players- compared with low- level.

They give up because about the time they get into Tier IV stuff and realize they cannot make the gear they need because they do not have the proper techs for it and cannot buy them anywhere.

Playing the "gambling" game of hunting tech giving mob for days on end in the vague hope of getting just the tech you want can be very infuriating.

It is also about that time that absolutely everything you do goes up a notch in difficulty which is a bit of a slap in the face considering that usually as you get stronger you get better at doing things not suddenly worse.

Prices of the things you CAN buy are also rather intense compared to the meager earnings you can generate so all in all that is a point of extreme frustration.

It also does not help to have the lvl 100's telling you they can do all sorts of things for you because it makes you feel that if they can just do all this stuff then why should you bother? It makes cheap your victories.

That and if you are like me and enjoy seeing how skills work by then you have seen it all and things are just repeating so you may lose interest in playing that character.