View Poll Results: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

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    30 71.43%
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Thread: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

  1. #1

    Default Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    Several weeks ago a guildmate who has played since launch canceled her account and went to another online game. She had become disinterested in crafting, and hunting had lost it's appeal as well. Her husband still has an account but now he only logs in about once a week or so for short period's of time. Last week he logged in and went out to hunt high tier named mobs. He killed several and looted ... a backpack pouch, a tech form and a trophy. He was upset, but he talked to me for a few minutes before he logged out. He felt named mobs should drop better loot, after all they are harder to kill. He said there are no weapon pieces, no armour pieces, nothing like the old days worth hunting for anymore. He was becoming disenchanted with the game too. So when his subscription runs out we will probably lose him as well. And why? Because there is no excitement in hunting. There's no reward beyond forms, techs, comps, trophies and trash. I suggested he make a new toon and start over with all the revamped areas. He told me he has no interest in making a new toon because they can't have the things his current toon has.

    There are many old items, forms, techs, crystals, etc. that are no longer obtainable in Istaria. Many of these things are gone forever as old players that had them have left, never to return. Many of these things have become attuned on equip and so are no longer tradeable to alts or other players. And why are these things gone forever?? Rare I can understand. Attuned I can understand. No longer obtainable, I feel, has become a detriment to the game. Because some of these things make a difference in gameplay. Not a huge difference, but a difference none the less. Being able to use a Boar's Hide Mask is an advantage when hunting. Being able to use Thundercloud and xGenerate Health is an obvious advantage to not having either spell - only one player that I know of on Order can still make these spells. Having a Regal Weapon is an advantage - I don't even know anyone that has one anymore. Making ambrosia is something very few players can do because the quest for the spirit oil formula was removed. Having a scale teched with Primal Vengeance is an advantage - no active player on Order has the tech. Having stat boosts from the Wishgiver is a definite advantage too, but the Wishgiver was removed. Even things like the silver whistle are gone forever from Order because no one is left that can make them. And when new players find out about these things and ask how to get them we have to say "sorry they are not available anymore, you can't have them".

    Unfortunately I am seeing this game become a world of the "haves and the have nots" and the have nots are now the majority. In my opinion, one of the reasons new players don't stay in the game is they find out that the veteran players can make things they will NEVER be able to make or have items that they will NEVER be able to have. There are many veteran players who don't have all these things either, or have pieces/parts stashed in their vaults that are now useless. They have no incentive to play because all they get from loot drops is the same old stuff they already have thousands of. Sure, new players will never get to experience the excitement of the "old days" when the events happened that brought these items into the game, but they should at least feel like they can become on a par with veteran players. And many veteran players need something to do, a reason to hunt, a resurgence of the old excitement.

    Please, bring these things back to the game, not as the old events obviously, but as quested items or rare loot drops. It's the hope for rare things and the excitement of hunting for them that makes folks look forward to logging into a game every day. Bringing these old items back and keeping them extremely rare but still attainable would breathe new life into a stale loot table, would give us a reason to hunt or quest for weeks/months on end, and would stimulate the economy. It would give new players a feeling of equality and hopefully would bring back some of the old disenchanted players too.

    Some things need to be rare and precious and even very difficult to obtain. I can understand that completely. But gimping new players and losing old players because things are now beyond rare and precious I cannot understand.

    Thaalia of Order
    Last edited by Holth; October 16th, 2010 at 04:36 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    I do not think they should re-add the old items. The fun in them is that they were one time events, and that should be kept as is. HOWEVER, I do think similar one time events so that current players could get rare and valuable items for a time would be good. Have events such as these repeated every few months but with different items. Bring into the game new and different items that are good, and useful, but leave the old items alone. To bring them back would cheapen them I think.

    I would like to state that I am speaking from the have not perspective. I'm an old player yes (about six years now) but I missed the original events that gave all of these desired items.
    Nayuaka and Nayukhuut. Freelance Helian lorekeepers of Chaos.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nayuaka View Post
    I do not think they should re-add the old items. The fun in them is that they were one time events, and that should be kept as is. HOWEVER, I do think similar one time events so that current players could get rare and valuable items for a time would be good. Have events such as these repeated every few months but with different items. Bring into the game new and different items that are good, and useful, but leave the old items alone. To bring them back would cheapen them I think.

    I would like to state that I am speaking from the have not perspective. I'm an old player yes (about six years now) but I missed the original events that gave all of these desired items.
    I totally agree and in the same situation.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    No don't bring back old items, make new items that are better. That renders the old items into curios and relics, but obsolete. That's what progress is about.
    *edit* and then no one would care about the proc rate on a couple techs.
    Last edited by Trust; October 16th, 2010 at 07:39 PM.
    Tempus fugit, memento mori.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    I'm for bringing back old items as rare drops so that those who do like to "get them all" or want something like that can have them.

    The problem in asking for new events that drop one time items is that honeslty - we don't have the dev power to do such a thing. We don't even have the same old holidays' we've always had (not exactly sure why myself...).

    So saying "don't put back in old content do new events and new content" isn't really I think a fair statement - simply because new events aren't going to happen with any regularity. I would imagine even an event a year is practically impossible with the dev population we have now, if we also want them to continue to work on what they are already working on (tweaks, bug fixes, other revamps, etc.).

    So yes, while it would be awesome to have 3-4 events a year, all with awesome individual techs and formulas - that's a "pie in the sky" type of thing.

    Whereas putting back in things already designed, even if phased out, requires much less work and is more "practical" it seems to me from that standpoint.

    "New Items being better" is probably a more realistic request, but then I don't really know that much about the time it takes to even create one or two new tech/formula/armor pieces that are going to all be "special" in some way and yet not be Overpowered. I mean even that could be taking 6 months at a time or something...

    This coming from someone who was around for all the world events, but all I have to show for it really is an old chest scale triple teched with vengence . (at least It hink that's what it is...I've not looked at it in awhile...). I may not be interested in some of the old stuff, simply because that's not what I'm into - but I've always thought it a bit off that they simple just weren't available at all anymore, and that it was intended for them all to just fade into nonexistance.

    Seems like the original plan would yes, be to replace those things that move out with new things - but since we no longer have the capacity to keep pace with that idea - seems like it would be then appropriate to bring it back.
    Frith-Rae BridgeSol
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    No don't bring back old items, make new items that are better. That renders the old items into curios and relics, but obsolete. That's what progress is about.
    *edit* and then no one would care about the proc rate on a couple techs.
    You serious? they will just nerf those items into oblivion too. It just takes one person to complain that it's too powerful and they will again adjust and neuter that item.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    I would say perhaps instead of bringing back the old items make some new things to shoot for. Essentially use the same principle as the old Items but a whole new set of things to work towards and build up would be excellent.
    "Nothing Is Never Not... everything is never."-Vacuus, Lord of Nothing

  8. #8

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    I say YES to this too!!

    There is an opprotunity to really reach and compete with other games out there, but instead we are begging the devs to not make changes that put us in line with other games.

    This game is unique in that it multiclasses and builds its own world. Its proven that an economy is not needed in game to survive. (Disagree if you like but its staring you in the face when you log in).

    The game is good the way it is.. or the way it was with the Wish Giver was in. Return items and develope new items. Please don't waste time changing existing content. What is broke is that there is a whole database full of things that can be brought back, to add flavour for the new players.
    As a Cleric of Harden I am duty bound to teach you his ways.
    or kill you trying!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frith-Rae View Post
    So saying "don't put back in old content do new events and new content" isn't really I think a fair statement - simply because new events aren't going to happen with any regularity. I would imagine even an event a year is practically impossible with the dev population we have now, if we also want them to continue to work on what they are already working on (tweaks, bug fixes, other revamps, etc.).

    So yes, while it would be awesome to have 3-4 events a year, all with awesome individual techs and formulas - that's a "pie in the sky" type of thing..
    It's not "pie in the sky" if it gets old players to return, keeps new players longer, and grows the game. It's precisely what the game needs to grow.

    If you bring back old stuff, it will not be old anymore and its' value would become worthless like all the weapon crystals currently are.

    Bringing back old stuff will help for a time. And then everyone will have everything, and we will be back to square one, except now no one would have anything that feels like it has any value, because everyone and their kitten has them plus spares in the vault. Then the situation would be worse than it is now.

    To be fair the dev's have tried to put new stuff in. We got alot of new claw techs, and new techs for scales. Rune of Flame, Frozen weapon, Bone Seeking, Rune of Protection, (myriad of t2 armor techs, only suited for t2 gear), Stun IV, Freeze IV and V, Concentrated V, unique underwear usually with each gnomekindle, new headscales with halloween, new crystals, probably more things I am not thinking of.

    I would suggest improving the stuff already in game so it is more desirable. Increase %chance on all the weapon crystals to 10%. Make the dots on the weapon crystals stronger. Increase by a large factor the chance of getting a good effect from a trinket, and make those effects last longer. Better yet, get rid of the bad effects except on the cursed versions, and give that one a chance to land some really awesome effects.

    More end game mobs with multi-piece new weapon drops, and maybe even some low and mid game mobs with multi-piece drops + formulas would be good. More raids would be good.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    I can definitely see the desire to bringing back old items. What new players can get now vs what old players have are no comparison. For example, no healing spell new players can get now can stack up with and match the usefulness of xGenerate Health.

    As it stands, new players will never be able to match the effectiveness of an old player in terms of PVE. Even if they had the same exact levels of the same exact schools. Triple teched PV or Eminence scale? Dim crystal of might? xGenerate Health? Boar Hide mask? Those weapons that allow you to cast a damage shield on you that I can't remember the name of..?

    There is absolutely nothing that even comes close to comparing to the above items that have been made available in the time I started playing in January 2009 to now. For a new player to know that they can become good but they'll never ever be great, I can definitely see that hurting motivation. And since 9 times out of 10 the only way to get an old item is to trade it with another old item, old items are limited to old players and nobody else.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Frith-Rae View Post
    So saying "don't put back in old content do new events and new content" isn't really I think a fair statement - simply because new events aren't going to happen with any regularity. I would imagine even an event a year is practically impossible with the dev population we have now, if we also want them to continue to work on what they are already working on (tweaks, bug fixes, other revamps, etc.).
    So yes, while it would be awesome to have 3-4 events a year, all with awesome individual techs and formulas - that's a "pie in the sky" type of thing.
    Frith, I appriciate your post and agreement with the thread.. but, this is not about events, it is about bringing back old things to make a level playing field between old and new players.
    Returning spells no longer in game, Thunder Cloud and X Generate Health; Dragon Techs such as Primal Vengence. The Wish Giver.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guaran View Post
    If you bring back old stuff, it will not be old anymore and its' value would become worthless like all the weapon crystals currently are.
    Bringing back old stuff will help for a time. And then everyone will have everything, and we will be back to square one, except now no one would have anything that feels like it has any value, because everyone and their kitten has them plus spares in the vault. Then the situation would be worse than it is now.
    If you think that the only old stuff needed in the game is a mask? I think you've missed the mark too. Its not about value.. Its not about stuff... its about leveling the playing field.
    Again, this game has an opprotunity to reach and compete with other games. By standing on its strengths of community and uniqueness in the MMO world.
    As a Cleric of Harden I am duty bound to teach you his ways.
    or kill you trying!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    What's with the bringing back old stuff kick? There are, well were, some nice things to up damage. This a "it's not fair that some have an item" thread and some don't? I say let everyone have a dcom, bhm, Triple teched PV or Eminence scale. I can only guess why things get nerfed or reduced cause of fairness. If everyone has it no complaints. Bring them all back.

    But that will never happen. I did buy a xgeneratex health spell of CD connie just to have something unique. And that's what those things are. Unique. Some new things were added in game for those who want a nice weapon. Calimirs/kion spirit xstal/ frozen tech would make a nice biped weapon. All still attainable in game. I know there are some new players that made it over the Istaria hump of grinding and are working to be lifers in the game. You want something rare and powerful too.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riaken View Post
    But that will never happen. I did buy a xgeneratex health spell of CD connie just to have something unique. And that's what those things are. Unique.
    xGenerate Health is not not just simply 'Unique'. It's a powerful heal over time that will stack with other heal over time spells and abilities. xGenerate Health + Field of Regrowth, for example. No other spell as far as I'm aware can stack like this.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    In one of the queen runs, I remember someone demanded that at least one of the dragons have a PV scale.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    Imho games are like companies. Those that look behind are those that die.
    I had some opportunities to have those "relics" of the past and lost them when GN forced me to delete my bugged dragon.
    I had some opportunities to have other "relics" and I took them.
    I could not play any more for years and lost other opportunities.

    What I got and what I miss is what makes me. Having everything would just create a lot of copy cat zombies, would just kill diversity and also kill the reward for having stuck with the game.
    Vahrokh Vain - Ancient dragon level 100 adv 100 craft 34M of untainted, fireworks and other crap free hoard.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    Although I really would like some (ok, maybe all) of the "old" stuff, I have to agree that giving players a way of attaining them again will (in the long run) be bad for the game. Teaming up with old schoolers is heaps of fun and most of the ones I know are more than happy to lend a hand when you ask them.

    Having said that... New items of the along the same lines would be cool (already added items not withstanding )
    SoG? Where? :-P

    Alas gone are the days when this was easy to do.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    Some things I would like to see back, like recipes for spun sugar and spirit oil.
    Some things which were overpowered, *cough* Boar's Head Mask *cough*, I do not think it would benefit to bring back.
    I liked the old Gregory quests and love the items I've kept from them.
    However, the new quest stuff is fun for me too. I just wish I could keep track of what class I need to be to get some of them...

  18. #18

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akrion View Post
    xGenerate Health is not not just simply 'Unique'. It's a powerful heal over time that will stack with other heal over time spells and abilities. xGenerate Health + Field of Regrowth, for example. No other spell as far as I'm aware can stack like this.
    Yes it stacks, but it isn't what I would call "powerful". It's a 30 second heal dot that ticks maybe 5 or 6 times, healing about 35 each tick. So over time maybe a 200hp heal, less than half a single revit cast which recycles faster. xgen is a 60 second recycle. it's also only available as a t3 and t4 version. Not all the powerful I think, but it is unique and different, which is why people still buy it.

    Chances of it being brought back is likely nil, because it was a beta spell left on jman random formula generators (now gangafs formulatrons) by accident, and removed in march 2004.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shian View Post
    In one of the queen runs, I remember someone demanded that at least one of the dragons have a PV scale.
    That makes no sense, because her attacks are spell-based. We ask our dragons to bring Eminence (maybe thats what you were thinking of).

  20. #20

    Default Re: Does Player Base Want the Return of Old Items to Istaria?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guaran View Post
    Yes it stacks, but it isn't what I would call "powerful". It's a 30 second heal dot that ticks maybe 5 or 6 times, healing about 35 each tick. So over time maybe a 200hp heal, less than half a single revit cast which recycles faster. xgen is a 60 second recycle. it's also only available as a t3 and t4 version. Not all the powerful I think, but it is unique and different, which is why people still buy it.

    Chances of it being brought back is likely nil, because it was a beta spell left on jman random formula generators (now gangafs formulatrons) by accident, and removed in march 2004.
    Your numbers are off.
    On my character, xGenerate Health III does roughly 55 to 65 every 5 seconds for 30 seconds. And xGenerate Health IV does roughly 80 to 90 every 5 seconds for 30 seconds. That's 330 to 390 total and 480 to 540 total respectively.

    Minus the AoE, that puts xGenerate Health IV on par with Field of Regrowth V. A tier 4 heal over time that's usable by just about every class is on par with a tier 5 ability usable by only one class. And not only is it on par, but again, it stacks. And sure, they have a 60 second cool down time, but since they have a 30 second run time, just cycle between the two tiers and you won't have a problem.



    To Vahrokh and Freelancer: I don't believe the problem is just people having unobtainable items. The problem is that these unobtainable items are unmatched in terms of how useful they are. Nothing players can get now come even close to the list of things you obtained from the past. It's not just about having unique items.

    When you have certain epic fights that groups require players to have certain unobtainable items to be allowed to fight, something is seriously screwed up. No new player will be able to participate in this case unless they're extremely lucky to get some of these items.

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