Spirit Isle Crafting Quests/Adventure Quests

[joemarra052075]

I would recomend the following changes/additions be made to Spirit Isle.

1. Add miner and gatherer to the schools you can join and quest for there.
2. Add a series of quests that gives the player all the beginner tools, these are usually given away anways by older players and the experience will do the new players good.
3. Add a series of quests that will provide a basic set of equipment for each of the basic adventure schools (spells included in that). Let the quest do both 2h and 1h and shield for the appropriate schools.
4. Add monk, spiritist, and druid to the initial adventure quests...most new players don't even know these schools are there and since they are not actually prestige they would be better served as part of the spirit isle experience.
5. Add one quest to show what a technique is and how to impliment it. Make it an inferior technique to those found in the real world, but still useful (say and armor tech of health +1)
6. Add at least 1 fight with a agent of the WA.
7. Let the quests give money as well...this will let the new players be able to buy things from the older ones as soon as they get to NT.
8. Put in a pawnbroker and oddities collector.
9. Make part of the quest to NT be to see the vault keeper and connie.

Similar changes should be made to the dragon starter area.

The pourpose of these changes is to give players a better and more rounded experience while still on spirit isle. Then when they hit NT they will be far better prepared for the challenges ahead and will have more knowledge of the game and how it works.

[Velea]

I would recomend the following changes/additions be made to Spirit Isle.

First, thank you for taking the time to make suggestions and playing through the tutorial again. We are always trying to improve any barriers to entry for players...

1. Add miner and gatherer to the schools you can join and quest for there.

These are not beginner schools, so they are not appropriate for Spirit Island.

2. Add a series of quests that gives the player all the beginner tools, these are usually given away anways by older players and the experience will do the new players good.

Players should be being given the tools they need to craft already on Spirit Isle. If they are not given them as part of one of the quests, please let me know specifically which quest and which tool so I can fix that.

3. Add a series of quests that will provide a basic set of equipment for each of the basic adventure schools (spells included in that). Let the quest do both 2h and 1h and shield for the appropriate schools.

Again, players are given basic equipment they need on a basic level already. They aren't going to be given everything they need via quests in later levels, so setting them up early with all the equipment they need sets up false expectations. In addition, T1 is the only part of the game where they can collect refurbished armor from looting mobs. That armor needs to have a purpose.

Also, giving them too many different options too early on is very confusing. Keep in mind that Spirit Isle is very much a "tutorial of the very basics", and players should be only level 3 or 4 by the time they get through with this island. We want them to move on and move off it very quickly to get into New Trismus where they can interact with players more.

4. Add monk, spiritist, and druid to the initial adventure quests...most new players don't even know these schools are there and since they are not actually prestige they would be better served as part of the spirit isle experience.

Again these are not the basic schools, but are part of what we consider to be the advanced set of schools. Learning the basics is the focus of this island, not learning everything that is possible.

5. Add one quest to show what a technique is and how to impliment it. Make it an inferior technique to those found in the real world, but still useful (say and armor tech of health +1)

Techniques are taught as part of the quests on New Trismus, as this is where players are expected to start needing and looking for new armor.

6. Add at least 1 fight with a agent of the WA.

Again, this is done on New Trismus.

7. Let the quests give money as well...this will let the new players be able to buy things from the older ones as soon as they get to NT.

That we could do. In fact, I'm surprised the adventure quests don't.

The pourpose of these changes is to give players a better and more rounded experience while still on spirit isle. Then when they hit NT they will be far better prepared for the challenges ahead and will have more knowledge of the game and how it works.

I understand your purpose for what you are saying... but you are setting expectations for Spirit Isle that are simply not part of the design of the island.

Players should be in and out of SI within the first half hour to hour of play depending on how many of the schools they try and if they do crafting on SI or not. And this is very intentional on our part to get them through this early content fast. The sooner a player can move out of the tutorial and into what they feel is a "real" part of the game, the better they feel about themselves and what they have accomplished. If we can teach them the very basics and give them the chance to feel they have "learned the game" (even if they really haven't), they are much more likely to stick around and gradually learn more about the real depth of the game rather than feel overwhelmed. It's a fine line balance.

[joemarra052075]

First, thank you for taking the time to make suggestions and playing through the tutorial again. We are always trying to improve any barriers to entry for players...

Thank you for your fast response.

These are not beginner schools, so they are not appropriate for Spirit Island.

Hmm ok for those two I could see that, perhaps quests for them though on NT

Players should be being given the tools they need to craft already on Spirit Isle. If they are not given them as part of one of the quests, please let me know specifically which quest and which tool so I can fix that.

They are given the correct refurbished equipment (though if they have better it keeps giving them the training gear). I was going for a more through intro into crafting....more equipment than just the beginner pick axe formula you get...but I understand the speed through issue you want for people.

Again, players are given basic equipment they need on a basic level already. They aren't going to be given everything they need via quests in later levels, so setting them up early with all the equipment they need sets up false expectations. In addition, T1 is the only part of the game where they can collect refurbished armor from looting mobs. That armor needs to have a purpose.

Once again this was just more low level crafting forms, though I do understand what you are saying about time spent on the island.

Also, giving them too many different options too early on is very confusing. Keep in mind that Spirit Isle is very much a "tutorial of the very basics", and players should be only level 3 or 4 by the time they get through with this island. We want them to move on and move off it very quickly to get into New Trismus where they can interact with players more.

I understand what you are saying, and the speed is decent, I would almost like to see a little more time spent there, say to level 5 but that is me.

Again these are not the basic schools, but are part of what we consider to be the advanced set of schools. Learning the basics is the focus of this island, not learning everything that is possible.

I'm not sure I agree with that, those schools require no prerequeists to enter and I'm sure many new players (and some older ones) would like the experience of being able to start with these classes, particulary as they don't have very good opening quests currently.

Techniques are taught as part of the quests on New Trismus, as this is where players are expected to start needing and looking for new armor.

At last check the technique quests for both the dragons and bipeds were sending them after the wrong components...and the only biped quest I can think of gives you a tech kit, not a technique.

Again, this is done on New Trismus.

That quest on NT is very difficult, often requiring that adventures return at a much latter level in order to complete it. It took my dragon to rating 17 before I felt comfortable doing that one. I tried when I was 3 levels over the boss and he devoured me, and that is not couting the swarming skeletons you have to face in earlier parts of the quest. That quest is most assuradly not a beginner one.

That we could do. In fact, I'm surprised the adventure quests don't.

Thank you

I understand your purpose for what you are saying... but you are setting expectations for Spirit Isle that are simply not part of the design of the island.

I just want to expand slightly on it....give players a slightly greater overview of the game...soften the early learning curve just slightly

Players should be in and out of SI within the first half hour to hour of play depending on how many of the schools they try and if they do crafting on SI or not. And this is very intentional on our part to get them through this early content fast. The sooner a player can move out of the tutorial and into what they feel is a "real" part of the game, the better they feel about themselves and what they have accomplished. If we can teach them the very basics and give them the chance to feel they have "learned the game" (even if they really haven't), they are much more likely to stick around and gradually learn more about the real depth of the game rather than feel overwhelmed. It's a fine line balance.

I do agree...I just feel right now it is slightly on the wrong side of the line for too quick (just barely).

When it was designed (and I was playing in the beginning) players could read about miner/gatherer/druid/spiritist/and monk in the book. They no longer have that option and while there are some good web guides out there a new player won't know to go to them.

Since Istaria no longer has a box or comes with a manual it is up to the starter isles/nt to teach them what options are available.

Even if you don't add some of these things to the starter isle some additions should be added to NT.

Ok thanks for listening, look forward to hearing more from you.

[Akrion]

I'm not sure I agree with that, those schools require no prerequeists to enter and I'm sure many new players (and some older ones) would like the experience of being able to start with these classes, particulary as they don't have very good opening quests currently.

Monk, Spiritist and Druid may not have prerequisites but they're not part of the 'Base 4' type of schools that just about all fantasy RPGs have. Melee, Range, Healing Magic, and Combat Magic. (Warrior, Scout, Cleric, and Mage respectively). So while they're not a prestige class like Bloodmage or Healer, they're also not a base class either, which would put them outside the scope of what the Spirit Isle is there for.

Also, a player who knows of the school's existance can start as Monk/Spiritist/Druid if they so care to. They're not forced to take any of the schools available on spirit isle.

[joemarra052075]

Monk, Spiritist and Druid may not have prerequisites but they're not part of the 'Base 4' type of schools that just about all fantasy RPGs have. Melee, Range, Healing Magic, and Combat Magic. (Warrior, Scout, Cleric, and Mage respectively). So while they're not a prestige class like Bloodmage or Healer, they're also not a base class either, which would put them outside the scope of what the Spirit Isle is there for.

Also, a player who knows of the school's existance can start as Monk/Spiritist/Druid if they so care to. They're not forced to take any of the schools available on spirit isle.

very true and I am doing that right now (btw the quests for spiritist and monk are horrible...monk gives one quest to kill 10 sand beetles and spiritist dosn't give any quests)

However you have kinda made my point about monk/spiritist/druid...these are not the standard fantasy 4, so how could a new player be expected to know about them?

If you had them available or at least better talked about on the spirit isle I bet you would see more of them being played.

[Akrion]

very true and I am doing that right now (btw the quests for spiritist and monk are horrible...monk gives one quest to kill 10 sand beetles and spiritist dosn't give any quests)

However you have kinda made my point about monk/spiritist/druid...these are not the standard fantasy 4, so how could a new player be expected to know about them?

If you had them available or at least better talked about on the spirit isle I bet you would see more of them being played.

Well the thing is, you're talking about the Spirit Isle. You're somewhat introduced to them on New Trismus, though perhaps there could be a bit more of an introduction to the other classes. But the original point that I think Velea is trying to make is that the point of the Spirit Isle (And only the Spirit Isle) is to get new players accustomed to the game enough where they are hopefully functional enough to learn more when they move to New Trismus.

[joemarra052075]

Well the thing is, you're talking about the Spirit Isle. You're somewhat introduced to them on New Trismus, though perhaps there could be a bit more of an introduction to the other classes. But the original point that I think Velea is trying to make is that the point of the Spirit Isle (And only the Spirit Isle) is to get new players accustomed to the game enough where they are hopefully functional enough to learn more when they move to New Trismus.

Fair enough..though I feel my ideas are valid they could be put in better at NT and keep spirit isle the way it is for the most part....but if spirit isle stays the way it is NT could use alot of improvements.

and I still say there should be a small intro to the WA in Spirit isle....particulary since the nt wa is extremely overpowered.

[AmonGwareth]

Fair enough..though I feel my ideas are valid they could be put in better at NT and keep spirit isle the way it is for the most part....but if spirit isle stays the way it is NT could use alot of improvements.

and I still say there should be a small intro to the WA in Spirit isle....particulary since the nt wa is extremely overpowered.

Doesn't really work on NT either in my opinion. We already introduce a lot more on NT and to be honest players are still learning the basics. You have lots of quests, you get quite a bit of coin, you fight the WA, you can extend each of your basic core schools (both adventurer and crafter) up to level 10 via quests. That's quite a bit plus we're still bombarding you with information.

Miner and Gatherer aren't really that great for new players to join and level. They produce nothing that is directly usable. And so they aren't a good thing for players who are attempting to learn the basics of the game to join as they add nothing that the core trade schools don't already offer.

That said, Joe, you are thinking about the right things. Ways to improve accessibility for new players, to lower the barrier to entry, and to improve new players' understanding of the game's mechanics.

[joemarra052075]

Doesn't really work on NT either in my opinion. We already introduce a lot more on NT and to be honest players are still learning the basics. You have lots of quests, you get quite a bit of coin, you fight the WA, you can extend each of your basic core schools (both adventurer and crafter) up to level 10 via quests. That's quite a bit plus we're still bombarding you with information.

Miner and Gatherer aren't really that great for new players to join and level. They produce nothing that is directly usable. And so they aren't a good thing for players who are attempting to learn the basics of the game to join as they add nothing that the core trade schools don't already offer.

That said, Joe, you are thinking about the right things. Ways to improve accessibility for new players, to lower the barrier to entry, and to improve new players' understanding of the game's mechanics.

Miner and gatherer could at least use some quests. While they don't prouduce any finished products they provide an amazing varity of skills, and the skill gains for those skills is far better than in the regular schools.

To give you some hard numbers, though I will only use the three primary crafting schools (skill gain numbers taking from --edited link--

Blacksmith VS Miner and Gatherer:

Skill Gained/Lvl Stat Gained/Lvl

Fletching 8/0/0 Health 5/5/5
Logging 7/0/11 Strength 8/8/4
Metalworking 8/0/0 Power 3/4/4
Mining 7/11/0 Focus 3/4/4
Quarrying 7/11/0 Dexterity 6/4/8
Weaponcraft 8/0/0
Woodworking 8/0/0
Sculpting 8/0/0
Armor Use 7/7/7
Smelting 8/10/0
Lumbering 8/0/10
Stoneworking 8/10/0
Ingenuity 10/10/10
Gemworking 0/10/0
Salvaging 0/8/8
Prospecting 0/10
Foraging 0/0/11
Fishing 0/0/11
Essence Shaping 0/0/10
Essence Harvesting 0/0/11
Spinning 0/0/10
Tanning 0/0/10
Dowsing 0/0/10
Papermaking 0/0/10

Ok as we can see here it is to the advantage of a player to gain a level of miner and gatherer prior to every gain of blacksmith. Most players I know tend to level their crafting before their adventuring as the stat bonuses help greatly. Miner and gatherer do this best when taken together. The stats you need to gather and process your resources are much higher with miner/gatherer than with blacksmith. Every player who has spent any time gathering resources knows the you want to do every thing you can to raise that score prior to gathering....The time saved by doing so is huge as the higher the number the more of the resource you get with each strike. Of course the higher the processing stat the less of the resource you need to make the refined version.

The same holds true with outfitter and scholar.

One a seperate note there still is the problem with lack of good technique quests and that the WA quest is very overpowered.

[joemarra052075]

also what about the monk/spiritist/druid...all of whom there is barely any mention of and have terrible to no starting quests.

[AmonGwareth]

also what about the monk/spiritist/druid...all of whom there is barely any mention of and have terrible to no starting quests.

Correct, they do need more. But starting on Lesser Aradoth, likely, rather than on NT.

As far as Miner and Gatherer, yes, they do add more to crafting and allow it to be done more efficiently. But, they are only useful if you are trying to be efficient, to min/max as it were. And they aren't useful for someone just learning the game who is barely familiar with the crafting process.

[joemarra052075]

Correct, they do need more. But starting on Lesser Aradoth, likely, rather than on NT.

As far as Miner and Gatherer, yes, they do add more to crafting and allow it to be done more efficiently. But, they are only useful if you are trying to be efficient, to min/max as it were. And they aren't useful for someone just learning the game who is barely familiar with the crafting process.

Ok I can agree with that for the miner and gatherer, but I still say they need quests.

As far as monk/spiritist/druid are concerned they need quests on Lesser Aradoth (though that makes it harder for even experienced players who want a pure of any of these classes) but they need to be talked about more and directed to from NT better. Druid and Monk are kinda directed to, but in a out of the way location. Spiritist gets no love at all, just sits with the healer prestige school in kion with no mention of it being there in NT at all.

[joemarra052075]

I am about to submit a quest that will answer some of my issues with new player knowledge of miner/gatherer/druid/spiritist/monk. It won't have the players joining any of the schools or do anything more than tell them the schools are available with no prerequisits and have the trainers describe the schools. It will give a title at the end that is fun and a little cash and xp. It will also give players somthing to use those imperial tokens on.

[joemarra052075]

it took me about two hours but I completed the quest and have now submitted it. Hopefully it meets all requirments.

[Chasing]

Have to agree that Spirit Isle/Skalkaar should be kept to 'the basics' as such.

I worked through all the Skalkaar and most of the Spirit Isle quests recently and to be honest I still think there is too much information overload.

The tutorial popup's have far to much information in them and do random things like open up screens and pop up at what I would consider strange times.

A new player doesnt really need to know about every single customisation option for each window during a tutorial.

For example (from what I remember, there were lots and lots that I would personally change)

1. Completing the blacksmith tutorial quest and I walked into the mine for copper and tin and I got a message about 'why are you leaving the mine'
2. Popup about drowning when you are no where near the water (that was on spirit isle)
3. Popup about using your abilities and hotkeys just as you are about to attack a grulet (on skalkaar)

As for miner/gatherer, if they aren't the best choice for a new player then maybe they should be relocated away from new trismus.

Also Miner and Gatherer have a sting in them, they increase your salvaging skill which in turn then impacts the amount of XP you get for deconning in other schools (Note. Enchanter and Tinkerer also do this as well)

[joemarra052075]

Also Miner and Gatherer have a sting in them, they increase your salvaging skill which in turn then impacts the amount of XP you get for deconning in other schools (Note. Enchanter and Tinkerer also do this as well)

I know blacksmith dosn't have salvaging, don't think outfitter or scholar do either. And I know you don't get xp for deconing in miner/gatherer

[Chasing]

And I know you don't get xp for deconing in miner/gatherer

Actually you do. Make a bronze tool. No XP making the tool in Miner. Right click the tool in your inventory and deconstruct it. Then you get XP (as long as your skill is not too high for T1).

[joemarra052075]

Actually you do. Make a bronze tool. No XP making the tool in Miner. Right click the tool in your inventory and deconstruct it. Then you get XP (as long as your skill is not too high for T1).

hmm..made and deconed some cedar short bows when gatherer and got no xp.....sorry made a false assumption about miner from that.

[Chasing]

hmm..made and deconed some cedar short bows when gatherer and got no xp.....sorry made a false assumption about miner from that.

Should be the same for gatherer unless its been changed

[Sigi]

Only for tools perhaps and not for weapons?