Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

[AmonGwareth]

In our on-going work to improve the game for players and to reduce the barrier-to-entry (that is, the learning curve and the difficulty of getting very far into the game) we wanted to run an idea past you. Currently, if a player wants new armor or weapons or even spells they must seek out other players or learn to make it themselves. This can often be difficult if no-one is online who can make the item or who knows it. Or worse, if the player would have to spend many days learning to make the items themselves by joining a school and leveling it.

One solution to this would be to add non-teched items to existing Trainers so that players could purchase un-teched items for immediate use. Only items that are also sold as formulas would be available (so, for example, an Armorsmith Trainer would only sell Ringmail and Scalemail, not Chainmail or Platemail) and these would be un-teched.

This would still leave a market for teched items as well as for the looted variety of items. But it would provide a mechanism for players who are new to the game or in the middle tiers to obtain basic equipment for their level quickly, while still providing a market for existing players by providing techniqued equipment.

Questions, comments, feedback welcome. Would you support this enhancement?

A. Yes
B. No

[Jorev1]

I disagree with the notion that making the game easier and reducing the learning curve and difficulty is a positive step. Those are exactly the things that make Istaria worth playing. If someone wants easy, they can play WoW, Rift, or one of many other theme park designs.
I find the negative sentiment that a player may have to spend time learning a trade in order to provide themselves goods, shocking. Istaria is foremost a crafting MMOG after all.

Considering the state of Istaria currently in regards to player base size and thus economic health though, it really doesn't matter if you add these things to vendors.

[Dhalin]

I support the idea, but I can't help but to wonder, why no plate or chain?

What good does it do to allow people to purchase Lv1 equipment, and then they reach Level 10 and then they're running back to the Consigner looking for Lv11 armor again?

Mobs <Lv11 can oftentimes be killed while naked anyways, even if you're just a plain warrior and nothing but.

If we're going to have T1 armor on consigners, we might as well go Whole-Hog and make the Chain and Plate available too.

As long as it is untech'd, I don't really get why it'd be overpowered, as it is only Tier 1, and at least a Lv20 character has access to more stuff than a Lv10 character would.

As for learning how to craft your own, that is kind of a catch-22:

The Chain and Plate Formulas are not sold by any NPC; you have to kill junk to get it. But, as you get Level 11, you need new armor, right? You can't get that armor unless you, or someone else crafts it. You can't craft it without killing hordes of mobs... but yet you're Lv11 and you need armor...

See the run-around circle here? At least a Lv20 would have full access to all Tier 1 mobs (and thus be able to farm up Tier 1 form drops).

Edit: Keep forgetting that Chain/Plate is Lv11, not Lv10

[joemarra052075]

I thought this was pretty much available on the imperial vendors....I know I just bought refurburished hide armor for my monk and refurbished plate for my warrior.

[Teto Frum]

I vote no. I havent ever heard one person say they are leaving because they couldnt find a set of armor. Other things to worry about more important than this.

[Shian]

I vote no. I havent ever heard one person say they are leaving because they couldnt find a set of armor. Other things to worry about more important than this.

I have. Several times in chat in fact.

Person was on a trial account, asked for armor throughout the course of hours. Did so the next morning with no reply. Got too frustrated because they couldn't play the game and had been trying to do so for two days. It takes just the right amount of people to be on or not be on to get the right armor.

Then you get scenes from Thickle's well written post where they can't get the materials for the armor nor can they fight at all really.

[Draeconis]

How about just including a full set of starting (refurbished) armor to new characters when they join an adventure school as part of the starting equipment, like weapons and shields? This way they're not running around in a pair of starting pants and and a t-shirt. They also won't have to spend their hard earned copper on buying the refurbished stuff once they get to NT.

[awdz]

I like the idea of refurbished gear being available for tiers II - IV as well as tier I. By the time they get to the higher tiers, they will most likely be looking for crafters who can make properly tech'd gear anyway. I do not see how it hurts to have something minimal available to the desperate. It's not like crafters are falling over each other looking for business at the middle tiers.

[LOVWYRM]

A happy YES from here

But I also support Draeconis` idea,

and would sign what Awdz says- but only for t1 - t3.

I am sure- such a measure will help to make newbies stay longer!
And it does not hurt anybody.

[joemarra052075]

How about this? Vendors that give quests requesting certain amounts of gear (5 chainmail helms), give coin and xp for completing those quests, then turn around and sell what they have.

This keeps the creation of materials in-house, gives some much needed xp and money to young crafters and provides inexpensive items to new players.

If you make it so that the items don't decay people can constantly work to keep the venders stocked by way of the quests...and there will always be plenty available.

[LungTien Temeraire]

I support the idea for simple and unteched items, at least for the first tiers.

[Kesqui]

How about this? Vendors that give quests requesting certain amounts of gear (5 chainmail helms), give coin and xp for completing those quests, then turn around and sell what they have.

That's a fantastic idea - and adds a "lore" reason why the crafting quest people would have that sort of thing to sell.

[Andaras]

I like the idea of refurbished gear being available for tiers II - IV as well as tier I. By the time they get to the higher tiers, they will most likely be looking for crafters who can make properly tech'd gear anyway. I do not see how it hurts to have something minimal available to the desperate. It's not like crafters are falling over each other looking for business at the middle tiers.

I like this idea, mostly.

I have reservations that by doing such we will be programming the new
players into believing that the Imperium will provide them with everything.
With this early training and experience of "the Empire will provide all" they
will get frustrated when they hit "the end" of those provisions. At the risk
of sounding negative, I honestly feel like you are attempting to "cure
stupid".

To me, it would best serve if players were trained from the beginning
how to get the best gear. Think raising a Child, it is the early formative
years (levels) that will create the foundation. Teach them yes, just don't coddle them and give them what they are whining for.
Vendors should steer the new players to look for Crafters for their
specific needs.
*Yoda voice* Mighty Dragon Crafter? Icabald, You seek Icabald, Yes!

I'd really really really like to see a system where the Crafters can have
their name(s) and possibly an Item Displayed as advertisement.
An Imperial Vendor can show players a list of Available (Online) crafters
for a specific set of gear. (Modified Player search - Crafting - Trade - Tier/Lvl of skill = List)

Para-Quote Sephi here -- My words are the wind.....

Andaras

[Balthizar]

It's a catch-22 now with the crafting verses the gear you need to play.

To be Truthfull I think Tier 1-5 Unteched Armor/Weapons/Spells and Tools should be sold by npc's.

Lets be truthfull this is not going to harm crafters income much. As this will promote more players to stay with Istaria longer. And thoughs players will then not get fustrated when looking for a crafter to make stuff for them. Now they can get the very basic and later when they find someone they can get what the realy want.

I also think a new NPC is realy realy realy needed. A Orders NPC were a player can place a open order to be filled for coin. i.e. I place a Order up for a Tier 3 E-bolt with Tech-3 Stun/damg inc. and Range.

I would just use the crafting interface to let buyers pre-build the iteams as they wished built. Then put the iteam up on the Order's NPC for crafters to come buy and see what wishs they can full fill today. The coin go's to the craft the iteam drops into the buys vaults.

[Holth]

I thought the whole point to having blighted armour and weapons/shields drop off of mobs was so that if someone chooses not to craft they don't have to. There is already a system in game for pure adventurers to get a full set of armour and weapons by hunting for them. And blighted gear is already teched. Some of it with better techs than crafters can make.

My concern with putting pre-made armour and such on trainers is this .. what will stop someone from buying a basic scalemail helmet from a trainer and dropping a socket tech on it? Now that helmet becomes exactly the same as the best player crafted helmet. Ditto for weapons and shields. Instead of selling basic armour/weapons on trainers would it not be much easier to spread out the loot drops of blighted gear on lower tier mobs so anyone that chooses to not craft or hire a crafter can loot what they need.

Thaalia of Order

[Gimbold]

[quote >snip
Or worse, if the player would have to spend many days learning to make the items themselves by joining a school and leveling it.
<[/quote]

sorry but i thought that was the point of this game.
I would prefer to see all beginer forms put back on trainers for people to buy.

[Shian]

joe's idea sounds like another cosigner. If no one is currently making that item, then the person wanting that item is SOL. No thanks.

I also disagree with having all the beginner formulas on the vendors.

I support the the OP where if you just need gear to get by, it is available for you without the need to grind "godnotanothercraftschool". I would like to see this for all levels truthfully.

This sounds very handy for characters of all tiers wanting to get that next set and would rather not depend on others because they are not quite high enough to make said item. For when wearing the last tier's set will get you dead way too quickly but you're too low to get the comps for your current set without the armor you're trying to get. Running in circles is no fun. A slight boost of help in the right direction can get a player the boost they need to grow properly.

[jerk-o]

I like this idea. I also like the idea of having the trainers give out crafting quests to make several of whatever items they're selling.

[joemarra052075]

joe's idea sounds like another cosigner. If no one is currently making that item, then the person wanting that item is SOL. No thanks.

I also disagree with having all the beginner formulas on the vendors.

I support the the OP where if you just need gear to get by, it is available for you without the need to grind "godnotanothercraftschool". I would like to see this for all levels truthfully.

This sounds very handy for characters of all tiers wanting to get that next set and would rather not depend on others because they are not quite high enough to make said item. For when wearing the last tier's set will get you dead way too quickly but you're too low to get the comps for your current set without the armor you're trying to get. Running in circles is no fun. A slight boost of help in the right direction can get a player the boost they need to grow properly.

While my idea is similar to a consigner it is different on several important points that should make it viable.

1. It gives people quests for large numbers of items (20 chainmail helms, 20 hide gloves ect ect ect). The fact that they are quests will give people more incentive to make the items.

2. By stocking up on those items with large quest orders it will prevent a shortage in stock.

3. It will actually add to the lore of the game and help keep the sandbox nature.

4. It takes the risk out for the seller - If a player know that when he makes 20 chainmail helms he will be paid for them, then he will be far more likely to make them.

5. It standardizes the prices for the basic items. Let's a player know what he needs to save to get them.

6. It makes a standard against which teched items can be priced on the connie.

The only disadvantage that I can see would be for the first few months while the stock was being established. The easiest way around that would be to give the vender a initial stock and if stock falls below a certain threshold the initial stock would reset.

[C`gan]

I've seen requests for such stuffs by some new players on Order shard. They were less than happy that people weren't stocking consigners with basic, unteched gear. I made mention that it's often the wish of the person looking for such armors and stuff to want them teched to fit their own style. However, as an interim to seeking out a skilled crafter to make such stuff, this would at least get them in the right direction.

I vote yes.