Overpowered Characters

[Fix]

Greetings fellow Istarians! And welcome to another thread where I get your brains going with another roleplay related question! Today I will be asking the bare-bones. Yes. The most basic of basic questions.

When do you draw a line in the sand? WHEN is a character officially “overpowered”?

Now I myself am not really refering to Istaria in general though this has popped up a few times in conversations I’ve had in-game.

Bob the Sparkly Dragon : DEWD. I LIKE HAT THAT GUY HIS CHARACTOR IS LIEK TOTALLY OH PEE. HE CAN LEIK SUUK PEEPOLZ’ SOULS OUT N ST00F AND U CANNOT DODGE HIS ATTAKS OR KILL HEEM.

And so, I go investigate this and talk to said person.

Derpo the Mighty Herpo : Oh no. It’s totally not like that! My character’s FAIR. He can run out energy after like 1 super attack. And he has like this obvious weakness. And he’s just very hard to kill!


Yet one asks – is that truelly just? What if the second person was correct and his character IS balanced?

I would like you all to discuss! What are your opinions? Where do you draw the limit?

[Shinkuu]

Ok, so the question is "When do you feel a character is over powered?" if I am correct in my understanding.

First, it depends on who this character actually is. So let us assume we are talking about a Player Character not a boss or some NPC.

Now for a PC I generally would say they are truly OP if they meet two or more of the following criteria:

1) Their powers have little to no basis whatsoever in game mechanics or lore.

2) Their powers actually defy logic and cannot really be reasoned out.

3) They cannot be Permakilled in any fashion whatsoever.

4) Their powers allow them to completely ignore all actions of others when they so choose.

5) They actually claim to be a real God or Goddess. (Here I do not mean in a figurative way.)


Nooow... If ICLY they SEEM very powerful and maybe even come off as indestructible but OOCLY we learn that the truth is they are not as all powerful and immune as they claim to be but that they purposefully put on that show ICLY then that is fine. I mean if you were Superman would you TELL people about your Kryptonite issue? If you were a freaky and powerful person who figured you could convince others you were invincible, even when you were far from it, then would you not try to do so? Appearances can be deceiving and it is up to the savvy to figure out what is real and what is a show.

So that is my answer in this regard. Feel free to ask for any other detail or ask my opinion on a specific example.

[Shinkuu]

Bob the Sparkly Dragon : DEWD. I LIKE HAT THAT GUY HIS CHARACTOR IS LIEK TOTALLY OH PEE. HE CAN LEIK SUUK PEEPOLZ’ SOULS OUT N ST00F AND U CANNOT DODGE HIS ATTAKS OR KILL HEEM.

And so, I go investigate this and talk to said person.

Derpo the Mighty Herpo : Oh no. It’s totally not like that! My character’s FAIR. He can run out energy after like 1 super attack. And he has like this obvious weakness. And he’s just very hard to kill!

Just because I HATE ending things in 9's and I had like 399 posts... LOL...

In regards to this particular example... I would need a lot more detail as to what exactly the Accused OP PC can do and how and what their weaknesses are or are not to make a fair assessment.

However, keep in mind that there ARE some insanely powerful attacks. Take Blood Mages... They get an ability similar to Evisceration of Life except it is a Spell. We are talking MASSIVE Ethereal Damage which ignores all but Ethereal Armor (which powerful ancients sometimes have like 300 of... yaaaay!). Now combine that with Perfect Spell (a mage ability that ensures you never miss with spells cast under its effects) and Multicast (Allows you to cast a Spell 3-4 times all at the same time) and you can One Shot an Ancient. Now mind you, that very wicked Ability takes an HOUR to cool down so they are NOT going to be pulling it more than once per battle.

So are there some REALLY NASTY attacks/abilities that in game mechanics and lore can be utterly devastating and seemingly unfair? Yes... Gold Rage is another. However, knowing your opponent is key and preparing a defense for their wickedness is a must if you wish to defeat them. A great one for the Blood Mage may be to attack their Mind and get them to waste this power on something imaginary. Or give them a threat that is not YOU that they all but need to use their massive attack on and then once that is over you swoop in and attack.

[Fix]

Just because I HATE ending things in 9's and I had like 399 posts... LOL...

In regards to this particular example... I would need a lot more detail as to what exactly the Accused OP PC can do and how and what their weaknesses are or are not to make a fair assessment.

However, keep in mind that there ARE some insanely powerful attacks. Take Blood Mages... They get an ability similar to Evisceration of Life except it is a Spell. We are talking MASSIVE Ethereal Damage which ignores all but Ethereal Armor (which powerful ancients sometimes have like 300 of... yaaaay!). Now combine that with Perfect Spell (a mage ability that ensures you never miss with spells cast under its effects) and Multicast (Allows you to cast a Spell 3-4 times all at the same time) and you can One Shot an Ancient. Now mind you, that very wicked Ability takes an HOUR to cool down so they are NOT going to be pulling it more than once per battle.

So are there some REALLY NASTY attacks/abilities that in game mechanics and lore can be utterly devastating and seemingly unfair? Yes... Gold Rage is another. However, knowing your opponent is key and preparing a defense for their wickedness is a must if you wish to defeat them. A great one for the Blood Mage may be to attack their Mind and get them to waste this power on something imaginary. Or give them a threat that is not YOU that they all but need to use their massive attack on and then once that is over you swoop in and attack.

Agh! That's really getting on my nerves the way people use 'cooldowns' and 'total damage' into roleplay situations. Do as you please, but I'll ignore it and never do it myself. Others apparently agree with me.

And that example was purposely obscure.

[Sereamha]

Agh! That's really getting on my nerves the way people use 'cooldowns' and 'total damage' into roleplay situations. Do as you please, but I'll ignore it and never do it myself. Others apparently agree with me.

And that example was purposely obscure.

See, and that is where you can start to get people feeling you are over-powered. If you utterly ignore all game mechanics, what are you doing rping in the game world anyway? A fair rper will take everything they can into account when rping with their character. Of course some rules can be tweaked and bent, but only if they make logical sense, as Shinkuu said. Cooldowns allow people to not just spam OMG I UZE GOLDRAGE 5 TIMES ON YOU NOW. It takes energy to do such powerful attacks, and ignoring that it does is poor RP. Just like it takes time for dragons to work up more fire in their gut to breathe it at people. They can't CONSTANTLY do it. That makes sense too.

Sense is all I ask XD Sense.

[BrightCat]

Another thing that I would consider overpowered is bringing in a new/young character and giving them incredible abilites out of no where that let them be on the same level as an adult dragon or trained biped or something. The only time I could see this is if you already have a well established character with a background (like a returning player for example). If you character was just hatched/born yesterday and has crazy powers, then no. Now, I'm not saying that characters can't have special powers or anything like that. It's just much more believable if they were developed over time and had to train to become powerful.

[Shinkuu]

Agh! That's really getting on my nerves the way people use 'cooldowns' and 'total damage' into roleplay situations. Do as you please, but I'll ignore it and never do it myself. Others apparently agree with me.

And that example was purposely obscure.

I have to agree with Niv up there largely. If someone RP'ly unloads massive Spiritual Damage on you in that fashion and by all the game mechanics it is unavoidable then you are going to die unless you have some very clever way out of it. That way should not be made up on the spot either because your character would have to have come up with it in advance with such intentions in Mind I would suggest.

Likewise when a lvl 100 blasts you with Fire Bolt V that is going to hurt WAY more than some lvl 20 hitting you with Fire Bolt II. RPly the lvl 100 has a LOT more energy and is far more skilled at their magics. This has allowed them to harness a more incredible essence of raw fire and channel it into a large sphere of utterly seething flame.

Cooldowns and casting times are also required. The Blood Mage should not be able to do that trick constantly because it requires massive amounts of energy on their behalf. Perfect Spell cannot be done constantly because it is essentially them focusing to a super human level on the details of their spell. Time slows, their heart races, their focus becomes nearly tunnel vision. They cannot do that constantly because it would kill them. Multicast requires them to mentally prepare the motions and incantations in their mind as they pull upon the wellsprings of energy needed to unleash their fury. Again this sort of thing needs a cool off period or they are being OP.

[Shinkuu]

Another thing that I would consider overpowered is bringing in a new/young character and giving them incredible abilites out of no where that let them be on the same level as an adult dragon or trained biped or something. The only time I could see this is if you already have a well established character with a background (like a returning player for example). If you character was just hatched/born yesterday and has crazy powers, then no. Now, I'm not saying that characters can't have special powers or anything like that. It's just much more believable if they were developed over time and had to train to become powerful.

I tend to agree here as well. Zarla is a wonderful example of this done right. She began with a very powerful ability to unleash fiery destruction based on her back story. However, as a hatchie she was NOT able to control it very well and her body was nowhere near strong enough to contain it properly. She was more of a danger to HERSELF than enemies and actually died a few times due to meltdowns because of that energy. Even now it STILL bothers her on rarer occasions. (Will stop bothering her when she is an Ancient.)

If you are a new hatchie and have some sort of great power it should be beyond your control and possibly more of a hindrance than a blessing. You should grow into being able to make a curse into a blessing as you get older and more powerful in time. Shinkuu's problem for example was just a curse for a long time but after spending 41 seasons as a Spiritist and 51 as a Reaver she has learned to control it and use it to her advantage a lot more these days. Though it is still a curse her knowledge and skill allows her to better deal with it.

The other way is to have the power start off little and grow more significant as time progresses. Maybe you begin with the ability to create static shocks. In time they grow into little arcs that even stun sometimes. As an Adult you learn Breath of Lightning and also a few other electromagnetic tricks. As an Ancient you can call down the full fury of lightning bolts.

The only exception I may make is this: The Gifted are NOT supposed to be just some random people. They are not SUPPOSED to be children or born with the Gift. So if you are Gifted and essentially a powerful warrior brought back from the dead to fight the Aegis then maybe you retained something of significance. However, keep in mind your body was remade and will need retraining to get back to where you were.

[Kaerisk]

Overpowered characters are characters that break the rules.

While this is a good definition for them, it doesn't really explain everything, especially in regards to which rules. Game system rules? Roleplay rules?

I like Shinkuu's use of Superman. Superman is in many ways a very powerful character. Often, it is the kryponite that shown to be his weakness, but if you look at Superman as a whole, there are many other places were we see weakness in him. His moral code prevents the use of his powers just as much as kyrptonite does, choosing to work as a regular person. His heart is also a great weakness of his, be it used against him by villains (I'm going to kill 10 orphans if you try to stop me now!) or in his personal relationships with other people, since he must maintain his secret identity at all times. And of course, there's also the fact that Superman exists in a continuum of super-villains - relatively speaking, there are many who will try to, and sometimes succeed in out-wrestling, out-maneuvering, or out thinking the super hero. Of course, Superman always wins eventually....

Now take these traits and analyze them for their rule-set. Are there limits to his power?

Physical limit: Kryptonite
Non-physical limit: Moral code.

Does he have flaws to help balance out his power?

Yes: his emotional distancing from other people and the world of lies he justifies through his good deeds of saving the world.

Is his power far beyond the powers of 'normal' people?

No, if we define 'normal' as the other major characters in this world. Sure, he could tear a normal human in half, but except for important support characters (Lois Lane, Jimmy), most characters in this universe have super powers or skills of their own (Lex Luther's mind, Sinestro's power ring, etc)

Why does he always win?

Reason: There is a meta-expectation by most readers that good always triumphs over evil. Because of this expectation, this becomes a rule of the world.


------

By answering those questions about Superman, we find out the rules of that world: that super powers are normal, that they must contain some flaw or weakness, and that good eventually wins.

Now, if we apply this to Horizons, we have to ask the same questions to determine the same rules. What makes this more difficult is because there are two types of canon, whereas in a DC Comic, there's only the DC canon.

The first canon is the game lore. It should always be your first stop before deciding on what character you want to play. Horizons is actually very lenient about its lore expectations, because still relatively little lore exists on the world of Istaria. There are many races with histories that can be read about from the main site or from the lore section on the boards here. Considering there isn't a deluge, it really doesn't take long to read up on the race you find most appealing and see what kind of expectations there may be for that race already in place. For instance, sslik history is most enlightening as to their past harassment by other races and their unique gender situation.

The second canon is player lore. This one is a bit more tricky, especially considering how long Horizons has been around. The best type of player canon is lore that is built from fragments left from the game's lore. For instance, there is an understanding that the stars in the sky are, or connect to, other realms. From that understanding, players have sometimes roleplayed as Star Dragons - dragons that come from the stars to Istaria. Unfortunately, some things are not as cut-and-dry as this, and you must ask questions - openly as you have here, or covertly to yourself or individual players based on what you see in a chat channel or live RP - to learn the unspoken rules of the RP community, just as we did with Superman and his world. As Seremeha asks, this is where you need to use common sense and logical reasoning.

If ever you are in doubt about a character you want to create being too powerful, one of the best strategies is to earn those powers. Superman was born into it, so let's drop him as an example and turn to Frodo Baggins. Frodo is a simple hobbit who just happens to be a little more curious and hard working than his peers. It is only through the hardship of the One Ring that he earns everything: his grandfather's sword, Sting and mithril chainmail, the power to become invisible, and the very fate of the world placed upon his shoulders.

In other words, people are more understanding if a character grows into his power, rather than suddenly plopping into the RP as a level 100 necromancer (when the character's level is 1, and especially if they start trying to control other people's characters - one of the cardinal sins in my opinion of RP).

A more pertinent example would be of my character, Maerkrux. As a hatchling when I started the game eons ago, he had no titles, and had ostracized himself from the Lunus community by abandoning his father for Chiconis. Over the course of the character's lifetime, he formed a guild; watched it crumble; lost all his friends and dreams; followed after the last of them into a Rift, where he was given Star Knowledge but robbed of a normal life; returned home to find it changed; underwent the ancient rites and found love, only to lose it (a total of four times thus far); become embattled in the large migration of Star Dragons, subsequently being torn apart and later reassembled; embroiled himself in both individual conflicts, such as Kael's dragon manipulation and the whole vampire incident, as well as world altering conflicts such as the recent Fallen Son war; taught several students and adopted many hatchlings... the list goes on and on.

We are left with a very powerful ancient who knows the secrets of runic magic with extensive knowledge of IStaria and beyond, can and has made a fortress of his own lair, and has successfully fought in both wars and individual battles. But each of those powers have both a limit, and a consequence. And every one of them has been earned through something that occurred as a result of or directly from something that happened in game.


By the way, even though you have these powers, you can't always use them. Maekrux's knowledge could often be used to solve problems that come up as a result of RP (obscure magic curses, etc), but the people involved may not want a direct and easy solution. Offer power, but never try to force it. Sometimes people feel a character is overpowered if their own is marginalized, but if you work with the other players, there may be a way for your character to get involved.

----


There is no silver bullet to the answer of what makes an overpowered character, as sometimes the lines of the rules are blurred and obscured. Still, to summarize, there are a few things you can do to limit potential OMG OP LOL scandals.

1) Attempt to determine the rules of the world and community.
2) Make sure every power has a limit and a consequence, and every character has a flaw or three.
3) Try to make every power, even those you design prior to character creation, earned.
4) Be willing to work with other people.


Do these things, in Horizons and beyond, and it'll help you create much more memorable and believable characters.


Oh, and if you don't know the story of Damocles, you should always keep it in mind when creating a character of power. That very power that you want is more often than not, a hindrance and a fear constantly hovering overhead.

[Akrion]

One thing I strongly suggest if you wish a powerful character to be more well accepted is to spend a good deal of time bringing your character up to power. My character, Akrion, has been a blood mage with a heavy focus in spirit magic since the day of his creation in January 09. He didn't start powerful, he gradually grew into power.

Over the course of the last two years, Akrion's RP experiences have been quite vast and I personally say that Akrion's power over spirit/blood magic is unrivaled, and I say this at the expense of the fact that in order for someone to get such an intense focus in the magic, they'd have to really skimp on every other school of magic so he is very unskilled in other magics, even Blight despite the fact spiritists are normally good at it. I also rarely ever use his powers to anywhere near their full extent, he's lost more fights than he won even though he probably could have won them. I take a great deal of time and care in balancing my character and because of this a number of people would agree with Akrion being as powerful as he is in spirit magic.

Even though it can take time, I really advise not creating a character that's near instantly powerful. For one, it's not always fun playing a super powerful character, which is why I've developed Akrion's philosophy behind using his powers the way I did. It still leaves him to have his *** kicked should some random person want to fight him for whatever reason. But when it really matters, he's near untouchable save for a few tricks. And for two, the more gradually you grow your character into such a role, the more your character is generally supported and accepted by others.

[Fix]

See, and that is where you can start to get people feeling you are over-powered. If you utterly ignore all game mechanics, what are you doing rping in the game world anyway? A fair rper will take everything they can into account when rping with their character. Of course some rules can be tweaked and bent, but only if they make logical sense, as Shinkuu said. Cooldowns allow people to not just spam OMG I UZE GOLDRAGE 5 TIMES ON YOU NOW. It takes energy to do such powerful attacks, and ignoring that it does is poor RP. Just like it takes time for dragons to work up more fire in their gut to breathe it at people. They can't CONSTANTLY do it. That makes sense too.

Sense is all I ask XD Sense.

Oh no! I didn't mean it that way ^^; I do not mind following some ingame mechanics but having to take into account my ingame skills? And follow ingame cooldowns to the letter?

What if someone does not like leveling ? Or is powerleveled?

Anyway. I do not mind following logical cooldowns, for example feeling drained after , or the next attack being far weaker...translating things from the game mechanics like mana use and so on into IC logic is what I'm IN FAVOR of!

It is when people expect me to follow it to the letter and number though , that is a little too far.

Besides. I CAN use gold rage 5 times in a row.

If I wear a HAT made of gold coins :|

[Fix]

Another thing that I would consider overpowered is bringing in a new/young character and giving them incredible abilites out of no where that let them be on the same level as an adult dragon or trained biped or something. The only time I could see this is if you already have a well established character with a background (like a returning player for example). If you character was just hatched/born yesterday and has crazy powers, then no. Now, I'm not saying that characters can't have special powers or anything like that. It's just much more believable if they were developed over time and had to train to become powerful.

I agree. While I'm not in favor of being all "LOL UR YUNGER U CANT' DO SHIZZ NENER NEENER NEENER" I do agree that when someone is inexperianced and -a s you said - potentially a BABY, and pulls the ability to say - revive people as undead or fire lazor beemz, that is suddendly going too far.

I say follow the real heirchy.

Hatchlings are young and inexperianced. Their little bodies cannot really take SUPOR magiks.

Adults are far more adept and can use a wide variety of things.

Ancients have been doing their shtick for ages, are very experianced and physically superior to the other two. Though they may be slower. Depends on the character. The only downside is that they are grumpy old people and probably will complain at you to death. (lolwut?)

Now I agree. If you develop a hatchling to a certain point or hell, anyone to a certain point, if a battle goes in certain ways they CAN win against something far superior to them. But within reason, within development, and within ACUTALLY MAKING SENSE.

So yes. thanks for that

[Fix]

One thing I strongly suggest if you wish a powerful character to be more well accepted is to spend a good deal of time bringing your character up to power. My character, Akrion, has been a blood mage with a heavy focus in spirit magic since the day of his creation in January 09. He didn't start powerful, he gradually grew into power.

Over the course of the last two years, Akrion's RP experiences have been quite vast and I personally say that Akrion's power over spirit/blood magic is unrivaled, and I say this at the expense of the fact that in order for someone to get such an intense focus in the magic, they'd have to really skimp on every other school of magic so he is very unskilled in other magics, even Blight despite the fact spiritists are normally good at it. I also rarely ever use his powers to anywhere near their full extent, he's lost more fights than he won even though he probably could have won them. I take a great deal of time and care in balancing my character and because of this a number of people would agree with Akrion being as powerful as he is in spirit magic.

Even though it can take time, I really advise not creating a character that's near instantly powerful. For one, it's not always fun playing a super powerful character, which is why I've developed Akrion's philosophy behind using his powers the way I did. It still leaves him to have his *** kicked should some random person want to fight him for whatever reason. But when it really matters, he's near untouchable save for a few tricks. And for two, the more gradually you grow your character into such a role, the more your character is generally supported and accepted by others.

Now THAT'S something I like to hear. Yes. That is great! If your character's developed overtime, he is usually diciplined in what he does. People tend to do the mistake though of starting their character off as 'VERY EXPERIANCED' which is a VERY bad idea unless you have played a character like that before. You are essentially killing any development you could do.

In essence - it is FUN to level ICly and attain more knowledge when you're playing a biped. I am not a total joy-kill. I find leveling hard and tedius. But if done with another? And for the right reasons? I say it can be great development.

So yes - In essence, characters that have been developed over time with a certain passion are essentially powerful. Aslong as it's within reason.

[Fix]

Overpowered characters are characters that break the rules.

While this is a good definition for them, it doesn't really explain everything, especially in regards to which rules. Game system rules? Roleplay rules?

I like Shinkuu's use of Superman. Superman is in many ways a very powerful character. Often, it is the kryponite that shown to be his weakness, but if you look at Superman as a whole, there are many other places were we see weakness in him. His moral code prevents the use of his powers just as much as kyrptonite does, choosing to work as a regular person. His heart is also a great weakness of his, be it used against him by villains (I'm going to kill 10 orphans if you try to stop me now!) or in his personal relationships with other people, since he must maintain his secret identity at all times. And of course, there's also the fact that Superman exists in a continuum of super-villains - relatively speaking, there are many who will try to, and sometimes succeed in out-wrestling, out-maneuvering, or out thinking the super hero. Of course, Superman always wins eventually....

Now take these traits and analyze them for their rule-set. Are there limits to his power?

Physical limit: Kryptonite
Non-physical limit: Moral code.

Does he have flaws to help balance out his power?

Yes: his emotional distancing from other people and the world of lies he justifies through his good deeds of saving the world.

Is his power far beyond the powers of 'normal' people?

No, if we define 'normal' as the other major characters in this world. Sure, he could tear a normal human in half, but except for important support characters (Lois Lane, Jimmy), most characters in this universe have super powers or skills of their own (Lex Luther's mind, Sinestro's power ring, etc)

Why does he always win?

Reason: There is a meta-expectation by most readers that good always triumphs over evil. Because of this expectation, this becomes a rule of the world.


------

By answering those questions about Superman, we find out the rules of that world: that super powers are normal, that they must contain some flaw or weakness, and that good eventually wins.

Now, if we apply this to Horizons, we have to ask the same questions to determine the same rules. What makes this more difficult is because there are two types of canon, whereas in a DC Comic, there's only the DC canon.

The first canon is the game lore. It should always be your first stop before deciding on what character you want to play. Horizons is actually very lenient about its lore expectations, because still relatively little lore exists on the world of Istaria. There are many races with histories that can be read about from the main site or from the lore section on the boards here. Considering there isn't a deluge, it really doesn't take long to read up on the race you find most appealing and see what kind of expectations there may be for that race already in place. For instance, sslik history is most enlightening as to their past harassment by other races and their unique gender situation.

The second canon is player lore. This one is a bit more tricky, especially considering how long Horizons has been around. The best type of player canon is lore that is built from fragments left from the game's lore. For instance, there is an understanding that the stars in the sky are, or connect to, other realms. From that understanding, players have sometimes roleplayed as Star Dragons - dragons that come from the stars to Istaria. Unfortunately, some things are not as cut-and-dry as this, and you must ask questions - openly as you have here, or covertly to yourself or individual players based on what you see in a chat channel or live RP - to learn the unspoken rules of the RP community, just as we did with Superman and his world. As Seremeha asks, this is where you need to use common sense and logical reasoning.

If ever you are in doubt about a character you want to create being too powerful, one of the best strategies is to earn those powers. Superman was born into it, so let's drop him as an example and turn to Frodo Baggins. Frodo is a simple hobbit who just happens to be a little more curious and hard working than his peers. It is only through the hardship of the One Ring that he earns everything: his grandfather's sword, Sting and mithril chainmail, the power to become invisible, and the very fate of the world placed upon his shoulders.

In other words, people are more understanding if a character grows into his power, rather than suddenly plopping into the RP as a level 100 necromancer (when the character's level is 1, and especially if they start trying to control other people's characters - one of the cardinal sins in my opinion of RP).

A more pertinent example would be of my character, Maerkrux. As a hatchling when I started the game eons ago, he had no titles, and had ostracized himself from the Lunus community by abandoning his father for Chiconis. Over the course of the character's lifetime, he formed a guild; watched it crumble; lost all his friends and dreams; followed after the last of them into a Rift, where he was given Star Knowledge but robbed of a normal life; returned home to find it changed; underwent the ancient rites and found love, only to lose it (a total of four times thus far); become embattled in the large migration of Star Dragons, subsequently being torn apart and later reassembled; embroiled himself in both individual conflicts, such as Kael's dragon manipulation and the whole vampire incident, as well as world altering conflicts such as the recent Fallen Son war; taught several students and adopted many hatchlings... the list goes on and on.

We are left with a very powerful ancient who knows the secrets of runic magic with extensive knowledge of IStaria and beyond, can and has made a fortress of his own lair, and has successfully fought in both wars and individual battles. But each of those powers have both a limit, and a consequence. And every one of them has been earned through something that occurred as a result of or directly from something that happened in game.


By the way, even though you have these powers, you can't always use them. Maekrux's knowledge could often be used to solve problems that come up as a result of RP (obscure magic curses, etc), but the people involved may not want a direct and easy solution. Offer power, but never try to force it. Sometimes people feel a character is overpowered if their own is marginalized, but if you work with the other players, there may be a way for your character to get involved.

----


There is no silver bullet to the answer of what makes an overpowered character, as sometimes the lines of the rules are blurred and obscured. Still, to summarize, there are a few things you can do to limit potential OMG OP LOL scandals.

1) Attempt to determine the rules of the world and community.
2) Make sure every power has a limit and a consequence, and every character has a flaw or three.
3) Try to make every power, even those you design prior to character creation, earned.
4) Be willing to work with other people.


Do these things, in Horizons and beyond, and it'll help you create much more memorable and believable characters.


Oh, and if you don't know the story of Damocles, you should always keep it in mind when creating a character of power. That very power that you want is more often than not, a hindrance and a fear constantly hovering overhead.

VERY well said! I just finished reading it. It is truefax. A character of high power within reason is a good thing when they have those weaknesses.

I thank you for your phylosophy

[Fix]

I have to agree with Niv up there largely. If someone RP'ly unloads massive Spiritual Damage on you in that fashion and by all the game mechanics it is unavoidable then you are going to die unless you have some very clever way out of it. That way should not be made up on the spot either because your character would have to have come up with it in advance with such intentions in Mind I would suggest.

Likewise when a lvl 100 blasts you with Fire Bolt V that is going to hurt WAY more than some lvl 20 hitting you with Fire Bolt II. RPly the lvl 100 has a LOT more energy and is far more skilled at their magics. This has allowed them to harness a more incredible essence of raw fire and channel it into a large sphere of utterly seething flame.

Cooldowns and casting times are also required. The Blood Mage should not be able to do that trick constantly because it requires massive amounts of energy on their behalf. Perfect Spell cannot be done constantly because it is essentially them focusing to a super human level on the details of their spell. Time slows, their heart races, their focus becomes nearly tunnel vision. They cannot do that constantly because it would kill them. Multicast requires them to mentally prepare the motions and incantations in their mind as they pull upon the wellsprings of energy needed to unleash their fury. Again this sort of thing needs a cool off period or they are being OP.

What are these...numbers that this way come?


I am not saying that just because your character is of higher ingame level they should be able to be killed instantly by a random derp that just made their account. As I said earlier, if your character has ICly developed throughout the leveling process, he will be stronger – of course, that is acceptable. Encouraged even. But what is distressing is when someone whom is at the maximum level considers themselves a GOD and cannot be touched unless you are close to his level. In which case he will say “I GRINDED UP FOR DIS SPELL HIAR AND IT’S EPIC” , be less then 5 feet from you, said your HP is lower and say it instantly kills you.

No. I enjoy following this strange thing called “Logic”. I take Ooc levels as “knowledge points”. Higher the level, the more tricks the other has up their sleeves. But spell levels? I hardly pay attention to those roman numerals. When I get “Firebolt ivivixivixvixvxivxivixvixvixVIXVIXVI” thrown at me, I just take it as “Oh look. A fireball. It burns.”, and take it that way Icly. Perhaps not as strong as mine due to it’s number, but I’ll see. If I get hit, I’ll get nkocked back and set alight. If I see it coming, I shall dodge it due course.

I get annoyed though when a player yells and berates me for using a random spell I do not understand on someone, and I ask what it is. And they promptly call me an ignorant noob. I do not mind the use of ingame spells for roleplay, hell, go ahead! I’ve began to do it. But at LEAST include a summery describtion of WHAT it does and WHAT you are doing.

Let me take this example.

Shik the Blood Mage: *Casts [Fireball IVIXXIXIVBXIBVXIXIIXBIGHEWR] at Bob*
^ That, I consider wrong. Ok, he has linked it. But that still does not tell me WHERE it came from, how he let it loose, aiming at WHAT part of the body or what the effect is. Likewise for buffs. I want to know what your cloak of thorns does and where it effects. Can’t effect the entire body, because that would mean Bob has his organs implailed.

Shik the Blood Mage: *He slowly begins to chant to himself ,waving his arms above his head, a ball of flame slowly forming above him as he gestures forth, the fireball shooting towards Bob. *
^ THAT I like. Feel free to replace ‘fireball’ with the spell being linked, maybe the character will take the mess of numbers there into consideration as an estimate of how hard it’ll hit him. For example if it hits 1k or something ,he’ll take it into consideration that it will really hurt if it hits him, or if it is of lower power it just scorches…you know. Basic stuff. Let the after effects be static.

That is really my only pet peeve with the whole “use of game mechanics” thing. I do not MIND using the game mechanics, but I hate people who cannot survive a single fight without using them, or follow them to the letter relentlessly. Otherwise, no. I do not think it is wrong to use ingame mechanics. But I bloody hell won’t have a health bar appear above my character and scare him witless.

Now reguarding cooldowns. Yet another thing I do not mind, sure. Cooldowns are there to make sure you do not cast the spell again quickly. But that’s so you cannot SPAM it on a mob and kill it’s arse. I like to think of cooldowns as an optional thing in IC standards. Now before you go insane and stab me in the face for this – I do it within reason. Go against a temporary cooldown at your risk. If it’s 1 minute, I translate that into two turns perhaps? Or one? Depends on the situation and what happens. Your character CAN cast it again in that time. But expect it to take a BIGGER toll on their status and to come out weaker. Common sense. But this translates differntly to SO many people. We all have our methods and I have heared people complain about both sides – that use of game mechanics is stupid, and that use of game mechanics is key.

But agreeably, when you see a person casting a very powerful spell that would usually leave a normal mage dry SEVEN TIMES OVER AND OVER AGAIN without pause or showing a very SLIGHT loss of energy, that is too far. It is within logic. Unless your character is BUILT LIKE A BRICK WALL and has a HUGE store of energy connected to him, I do not expect them to SURVIVE casting powerful spells a billion times over. Look at the Aegis! They need to make large-scale rituals and gatherings in order to summon their undead hoards. And they are very powerful necromancers.

So taking that into consideration – good point, mate

[Fix]

Keep this in mind people - that I am not making this thread because I am an evil userper seeking to kill off anyone's hopes of making a powerful character. Ever. I am simply becoming aware of alot of people complaining about "How OP this other person's character is".

Speaking of which - it is annoying…I am not sure if I am the only one who has encountered this or seen this. But people seem to complain when a character either breaks lore or is absurdly powerful…but I keep hearing about these characters that COMPLETELY go against lore, and/or are superultrapowerful, or are not Gifted (which people seem to complain about sometimes) and are usually going about killing things super-efficiantly. Yet people are ok with this. What if someone does not find this fair?

[Frith-Rae]

First off, what Mae said - yup thats' what I go with .

Across RPs (i.e. in games and in forum RP and such) I have had some extremely powerful characters, charaxcters that could wipe the floor with every other character int he same game.

But they never do - because that's not fun at all! LOL They never do becuse I put character flaws, moral rules, and other such weaknesses as a part of their nature. Because in some games GMs (or other players) like to throw in "oober powerful kill kill" bad guys for charaxters to fight against, so my ooberpowerful character can hold their own with THOSE baddies, but with lesser characters I play lesser abilities. And then the characters weaknesses, moral code, flaws, mind issues, whatever and etc. play a part in how things RP out.

For example, I have a game where I play a full-powered archangel (From another plane). She can fly, she has an oober sword that not only has abilities of its own but is somewhat conscious, she has fire and air magic, she can't die (cuz she's an angel and she's imprisoned on this realm because of demons so this is actually torture, if she died that would be a hppy ending lol), and she has the ability that if you look he rin the eye she can control you/drive you insane/etc.

Have I ever used half of all that in the game? Nope. But the ability is there However, she has character and moral codes (cuz you know she's still an angel, even if imprisoned) where she follows the "natural balance" of things. She's anti-chaos (not good, just anti-chaos). Therefore she wouldnt' just run around subduing everyone to her will, staring at everyone and controlling them as her minions. She woulnd't even step in if someone was being killed in front of her. Her sword has a "midn of its own" so to speak and if she uses it to do something against her character, it won't let her do it.

So there are various rules and laws I put into that character that I stick to in order to make sure noone in the game goes "AWW OP OP!! YOU SUCK!" The other players have learned that I don't do that sort of thing, so they are all fine with it because they know I don't abuse such a powerful charater - and it gives them liberties to create really powerful bad guys and we have fun that way.

Weaknesses. Its all about weaknesses. And weaknesses that people can see and realize through your RP. A weakness does no good if noone but you knows or can find out about it. Kryptonite as a weakness for Superman does no good at all if there aren't deposits from space on Earth of Kryptonite for people to be able to use against him .

Yet people are ok with this. What if someone does not find this fair?

Then you don't RP with them. Seriously. Its a simple answer. If you are RPing with people whom you don't feel "play fair" then don't play with them. Step yourself out. If they ask you can explain, calmly and reasonably and politely, why you are uncomfortable with the RP and then move yourself on.

I don't care if 10 people who are RPing with them are fine with it - if you are not liking it don't force yourself to "go along" just cuz others are. They can RP with the group that doesn't care/is fine with it and you go RP with those you are comfortable with.

Its not your right to tell those 10 pepole (or 2 or 5 or 1) how to RP. FI they are happy with what htey are doing and others they RP with are fine then leave them to their game. And you go and RP with others.

The drama there starts when either 1 person thinks its "unfair" and begins lecturing the other 6 people that they are "wrong" and how al of them should then cater to this 1 person. OR The person being doing the "wrong" (as you see it) wants to force YOU or anyone else to play the way THEY want regardles of how you feel about it.

Neither of those are winnign situations - they are just drama. Have the self-assuredness to walk away from RP you don't enjoy, but not to destroy what others enjoy for themselves. And have the strength to defend your RP desire/values to someone else if they are trying to enforce theirs upon you.

If someone is RPing in a chatrom a charater that quite honestly for me, coudln't exist in Istaria, I don't RP. Now if I start RPing before I realize it, then I keep my interactions very superificial after I find out. If I'm the only person int eh room interacting with them, then I'll let them know why I won't be going any deeper (in a polite and respectful way OOC). They can either be fine iwht that and stay superficial, or they can choose to stop RP or change their character.

Just walk away. Its really that simple.

[Akrion]

Now THAT'S something I like to hear. Yes. That is great! If your character's developed overtime, he is usually diciplined in what he does. People tend to do the mistake though of starting their character off as 'VERY EXPERIANCED' which is a VERY bad idea unless you have played a character like that before. You are essentially killing any development you could do.

In essence - it is FUN to level ICly and attain more knowledge when you're playing a biped. I am not a total joy-kill. I find leveling hard and tedius. But if done with another? And for the right reasons? I say it can be great development.

So yes - In essence, characters that have been developed over time with a certain passion are essentially powerful. Aslong as it's within reason.

I don't even personally view that you need to mechanically level, though it could help with credibility among new comers, it's just that so long as you make your character's RP development a gradual happening over time you're much better off. And yes, it is fun to actually have your character challenged and not backed up by a near unbeatable power and/or have a number of powerful characters at your side all the time x3.

[Fix]

I don't even personally view that you need to mechanically level, though it could help with credibility among new comers, it's just that so long as you make your character's RP development a gradual happening over time you're much better off. And yes, it is fun to actually have your character challenged and not backed up by a near unbeatable power and/or have a number of powerful characters at your side all the time x3.

Yay! Agreement.

Not sure how it'll be credable amongst 'them new kids' unless they're thought that way though.

[Fix]

First off, what Mae said - yup thats' what I go with .

Across RPs (i.e. in games and in forum RP and such) I have had some extremely powerful characters, charaxcters that could wipe the floor with every other character int he same game.

But they never do - because that's not fun at all! LOL They never do becuse I put character flaws, moral rules, and other such weaknesses as a part of their nature. Because in some games GMs (or other players) like to throw in "oober powerful kill kill" bad guys for charaxters to fight against, so my ooberpowerful character can hold their own with THOSE baddies, but with lesser characters I play lesser abilities. And then the characters weaknesses, moral code, flaws, mind issues, whatever and etc. play a part in how things RP out.

For example, I have a game where I play a full-powered archangel (From another plane). She can fly, she has an oober sword that not only has abilities of its own but is somewhat conscious, she has fire and air magic, she can't die (cuz she's an angel and she's imprisoned on this realm because of demons so this is actually torture, if she died that would be a hppy ending lol), and she has the ability that if you look he rin the eye she can control you/drive you insane/etc.

Have I ever used half of all that in the game? Nope. But the ability is there However, she has character and moral codes (cuz you know she's still an angel, even if imprisoned) where she follows the "natural balance" of things. She's anti-chaos (not good, just anti-chaos). Therefore she wouldnt' just run around subduing everyone to her will, staring at everyone and controlling them as her minions. She woulnd't even step in if someone was being killed in front of her. Her sword has a "midn of its own" so to speak and if she uses it to do something against her character, it won't let her do it.

So there are various rules and laws I put into that character that I stick to in order to make sure noone in the game goes "AWW OP OP!! YOU SUCK!" The other players have learned that I don't do that sort of thing, so they are all fine with it because they know I don't abuse such a powerful charater - and it gives them liberties to create really powerful bad guys and we have fun that way.

Weaknesses. Its all about weaknesses. And weaknesses that people can see and realize through your RP. A weakness does no good if noone but you knows or can find out about it. Kryptonite as a weakness for Superman does no good at all if there aren't deposits from space on Earth of Kryptonite for people to be able to use against him .


Then you don't RP with them. Seriously. Its a simple answer. If you are RPing with people whom you don't feel "play fair" then don't play with them. Step yourself out. If they ask you can explain, calmly and reasonably and politely, why you are uncomfortable with the RP and then move yourself on.

I don't care if 10 people who are RPing with them are fine with it - if you are not liking it don't force yourself to "go along" just cuz others are. They can RP with the group that doesn't care/is fine with it and you go RP with those you are comfortable with.

Its not your right to tell those 10 pepole (or 2 or 5 or 1) how to RP. FI they are happy with what htey are doing and others they RP with are fine then leave them to their game. And you go and RP with others.

The drama there starts when either 1 person thinks its "unfair" and begins lecturing the other 6 people that they are "wrong" and how al of them should then cater to this 1 person. OR The person being doing the "wrong" (as you see it) wants to force YOU or anyone else to play the way THEY want regardles of how you feel about it.

Neither of those are winnign situations - they are just drama. Have the self-assuredness to walk away from RP you don't enjoy, but not to destroy what others enjoy for themselves. And have the strength to defend your RP desire/values to someone else if they are trying to enforce theirs upon you.

If someone is RPing in a chatrom a charater that quite honestly for me, coudln't exist in Istaria, I don't RP. Now if I start RPing before I realize it, then I keep my interactions very superificial after I find out. If I'm the only person int eh room interacting with them, then I'll let them know why I won't be going any deeper (in a polite and respectful way OOC). They can either be fine iwht that and stay superficial, or they can choose to stop RP or change their character.

Just walk away. Its really that simple.

Well, sometimes it is not that simple. What if this is in a roleplay you really wish to be in? And this little factoid is annoying you or distracting you? It's there that I cannot stand it. While yes I agree on just walking away, if people keep getting away with making such characters it will never change.

|: If I see one more, I am warning YOU here. I will find YOU. I will make a character called Bob wearing a large pastry on his head and find you. And eat you.