Buffs

[Dragonboy]

Agreed.

Dragons get buffs. Dragons have dragon's gift, determination, Gift of Velocity, Promote Intellect, Promote Vitality, Arcane Refusal, Ignore Mysticism, Primal Attack.

Promote Intellect & Vitality both give 2 buffs each. Biped enhances don't double up.

Don't feel cheated because a dragon has different buffing capabilities than that of bipeds.

IMO if you haven't learned how to play your dragon without needing biped buffs, then you really don't know how to play your dragons effectively. It's a luxury, not a necessity.

Dragons may not get all the same buffs as bipeds, but bipeds don't get the innate armor and damage output that dragons yet.

I find myself amazed that bipeds aren't screaming for a biped version of Gold Rage especially in situations like this.

While I went from lvl 1/1/0 to lvl 100/100/100 without extensive use of biped buffs I can tell you that the only buff that as a dragon I really missed was Gift of Alacrity…With GoA you do a strike on a mob or resource node a whole of a lot faster, cutting back on gathering time a freaking lot while in the resource fields.

Part of the issue of dragons wanting biped buffs is also probably due to the fact that dragons have only 2 real gifts while like bipeds they have 5 gift slots. In fact for me 3 of those are ALWAYS empty except when I meet a biped in Bristugo or whatever place I am at the time that buffs me without me asking or just before a battle against one of the Epics…
Dragon’s Gift : Very nice to have, but be honest when you already have 1000 skill that small amount will not really help for Primal and TnC.
Gift of Velocity : +10 Flying speed… Technically a 10% raise in flying speed, but not really all that useful in either crafting or hunting.

It is all really nice that dragons have their own selection of buffs, but some last 15 minutes and others 30 minutes (like bipeds also probably have). The biped gifts last for 2 hours (just like the 2 in hunting and crafting useless gifts we have).

[Dhalin]

Gift of Velocity : +10 Flying speed… Technically a 10% raise in flying speed, but not really all that useful in either crafting or hunting.

Going to/from the machine, even +1% percent is helpful.

Anything to get the atrocious grind done faster, is helpful.

But I also find that how a Biped can run faster than an Ancient can Fly a bit silly. But whatever. If I dare mention Dragons and Bipeds in the same sentence I get a bunch of people yelling at me for bringing up "Dragons vs Bipeds" or somecrap.

But yes, having empty Gift Slots and nothing to fill those Gift Slots with, other than buying expensive scrolls (not to mention using up valuable stack/bulk in carrying them around/storing them) is not really a very good option. Nor is waiting an hour+ on Order trying to find somebody to buff you and then, if you get killed, then what?

You gotta run them down again. Ask them to drop what they're doing and meet you in Bristugo (or spend 5-10 minutes running them down). I don't like having to feel like an annoyance or a leech because of character design flaws.

To those who say "you don't NEED those buffs" ... um... 25% faster gather rate? 25% faster auto-attack rate? Are you serious?

25% is NOT a small bonus. It is powerful enough to expect that EVERYONE will want this bonus. The other gifts, yeah, they are nice but I could do without....

But Alacrity is a whole class by itself and if the Devs threw Dragons a Bone with Gifts, that would be the 1 and only I'd ever ask for that Dragons get. Some sort of Primal Alacrity or something that does the same thing (but doesn't stack with) Gift of Alacrity.

[LOVWYRM]

I`m always serious Do not need biped buffs!

[Akrion]

But I also find that how a Biped can run faster than an Ancient can Fly a bit silly. But whatever. If I dare mention Dragons and Bipeds in the same sentence I get a bunch of people yelling at me for bringing up "Dragons vs Bipeds" or somecrap.

Bipeds can only truly run faster than an Ancient can fly when they stick to roads. You have to keep in mind that even if a Biped can run faster, an Ancient can take the most efficient route of making a straight line to their destination. I can usually get from Point A to Point B on Ikaron (my Adult Dragon) faster than on a buffed Akrion (my Biped). In many cases, Akrion is forced to stick to the road else use /setscale 0 as there's usually unclimbable terrain in a straight line to his destination.

Dragon's don't have it that bad when it comes to ground speed, either. While you can't use Gift of Speed and Swift Feet when you want, you can have two speed techs where Bipeds can only have one.

Bipeds may be a bit faster from node to node, but they're usually a fair bit slower from pad to field to portal. There are trade-offs here.

[AmonGwareth]

One point here made by Dhalin that I do feel is valid was the lack of an Alacrity spell for Dragons. Plus, the idea of the name was good. So, with the next patch:

ADD: New spell, Primal Alacrity, to the loot tables and formulatrons.

[Akrion]

One point here made by Dhalin that I do feel is valid was the lack of an Alacrity spell for Dragons. Plus, the idea of the name was good. So, with the next patch:

Random additional suggestion if you guys wished to keep interdependency: You could allow the Dragon Alacrity to stack with the Biped Alacrity, so there remains a benefit to seeking out the other for a buff. Though I'm not sure how you would feel about a double +25% buff like that.

[AmonGwareth]

Random additional suggestion if you guys wished to keep interdependency: You could allow the Dragon Alacrity to stack with the Biped Alacrity, so there remains a benefit to seeking out the other for a buff. Though I'm not sure how you would feel about a double +25% buff like that.

I would feel like that was a big "heck no"!

[Akrion]

I would feel like that was a big "heck no"!

I thought so. xD

[Blue Hasia]

Amon would this primal ala be a gift that can stick for 2 hours? and would dragons be able to cast it on bipeds?

ala is one of the key reason why i wait around for the buffing.

if dragons can finally cast ala, i think this can really help calm the conflicts with dragons wanting buffs and scrolls.

[AmonGwareth]

Amon would this primal ala be a gift that can stick for 2 hours? and would dragons be able to cast it on bipeds?

ala is one of the key reason why i wait around for the buffing.

if dragons can finally cast ala, i think this can really help calm the conflicts with dragons wanting buffs and scrolls.

Its a copy of Gift of Alacrity, but using Primal and only scribe-able by Dragons. So yes it could be cast on anyone and it lasts 2 hours like the Gift. Spell formula can be scribed and made by anyone.

[Blue Hasia]

thats good to here...now if dragons can just cast a flame attack buff i think they would be set... since getting a attack buff in town is pointless because by time you get to the field it is half gone

and dragons should get an attack buff for each main breath weapon they have.
flame, energy, ice

and before people say we got primal attack.......primal attack is really not that good since it never really adds any damage bonuses. the only time primal attack has ever been useful is fighting ice beetles on island of ice when they up their slash defense with a buff they have.


or just up the time a attack buff to an hour 15 mins is really low

[Dhalin]

One point here made by Dhalin that I do feel is valid was the lack of an Alacrity spell for Dragons. Plus, the idea of the name was good. So, with the next patch:

*jumps up and down cheering*

Yes yes!

And no, we don't want it stacking with Gift of Alacrity -- that WOULD be way too overpowered.

OMG Thank you.

thats good to here...now if dragons can just cast a flame attack buff i think they would be set... since getting a attack buff in town is pointless because by time you get to the field it is half gone

We have Primal Attack, which is just as good IIRC?

[Akrion]

And no, we don't want it stacking with Gift of Alacrity -- that WOULD be way too overpowered.

Well I just figured since people already stack Alacrity with the candy.. xP

[Blue Hasia]

We have Primal Attack, which is just as good IIRC?

Please tell me a mob where primal helps add more damage over slash in a way that flame attack adds a boost

I said in my post the only mob that i can think of where i use primal on...and that doesnt even add extra damge realy its only becuase they can buff themself to be close to immune on slash damage so i cast primal attack to be able to do damage

[Akrion]

Please tell me a mob where primal helps add more damage over slash in a way that flame attack adds a boost

Beetles.

[Blue Hasia]

did you even read my post?????????????


i said beetles to and was (repeats self again) saying it does not give a real boost it only really helps when they cast that armor buff that immunes themselves to slash

and if we were to compare what primal did over flame or ice depending on the beetle the primal one always looses


so no primal does not give a boost comparable to flame or ice can on beetles

[Dhalin]

Yes, but Primal Attack does a good enough job in of itself.

Would Flame/Ice Attack increase a dragon's output? Maybe so.

Is it needed? Not really. I've never felt where Damage Output was anywhere near my top of the list of things why I couldn't kill a mob; the dragon school in general has very high damage output as it is, and some decent survivability, especially with the addition of Primal Health. Primal Attack does the job nicely (for those annoying mobs that are slash resistant), very few mobs seem to have Primal Resistance, so it is a buff that is universally good against all mobs, but not especially effective against any (other than beetles) either.

Bad at nothing, but not terribly good at anything either.

Meanwhile, Ice and Flame attacks have mobs where they are not so useful against, and mobs that they are particularly useful against.

It balances out.

Meanwhile, as I said earlier (that Amon said he agreed with), Alacrity was that glaring hole that needed filled, and with that being filled, I'm quite satisfied and so very thankful. I can't say I have any other buff requests for Dragons; the rest is just icing on the cake. Sure, Gift of Strength, etc are useful but I can't say they'd make-or-break my play experience like Alacrity does. Alacrity can turn a 4 hour crafting job into a 3:15 hour job (accounting for the time spent moving and processing). That's a pretty large bonus.

[Blue Hasia]

I would like to make another point.


now that amon has said dragons will get ala it seems people are loving this news....but i have been trying to get this for ages now and all i ever got mostly was negative feedback.


so how come no one now is arguing with amon saying this should not be done?

this also proves another point that people are doing this just to argue and derail the thread.

[Dhalin]

I would like to make another point.


now that amon has said dragons will get ala it seems people are loving this news....but i have been trying to get this for ages now and all i ever got mostly was negative feedback.

It depends on how you word it sometimes, and the tone of the post, and such. That, and sometimes the passage of time, and the more people who suggest it, and give convincing arguments as to why it should be can also play a role.

Also, games evolve, as do the mindsets of those who are in charge. I remember, once, suggesting a casted Heal spell for dragons, and it too was shot down way back when it was Tulga. Guess what we have now? Primal Health I through V. I'm not mad or upset at the least; I'm just glad we have it.

so how come no one now is arguing with amon saying this should not be done?

This news was only posted today; give it time. I can think of a person or two who might speak out against this. I won't name names of course. But then, the people speaking out against things of late, are speaking out against making things "Easier"... maybe they'll see reason that giving Dragons a Primal Alacrity isn't really changing the difficulty other than making dragons a little less dependent upon Biped buffs? Maybe some of the people arguing every suggestion made play dragons themselves and are now going "OMG, I don't have to run down a biped for Alacrity anymore! Woot!"?

so this also proves another point that people are doing this just to argue and derail the thread.

Doing what? Talking about Primal Alacrity, or arguing in general?

Talking about Primal Alacrity isn't derailing the thread -- it is actually a huge support of your OP.

Arguing against every helpful idea? Yeah, there are people who try to shoot everything down, including things that don't hurt them in the slightest... never understood the mentality myself, but whatever.

I speak my piece and leave, or at least I try. Sometimes even I get my moods, though, where I'm tempted to start shooting back...

[Lord Shinobai]

I would like to chime in as a 95% biped player regarding the primal attack vs flame/ice attack. There is an extreme difference in damage done between these types of attacks with a huge favor on the side of flame/ice. This isn't just between same tier buffs, this is flame attack 1 gives a bigger boost to 99% of mobs than primal attack 5.

Personally I would have thought that dragons would have gotten all three above mentioned attacks. Primal being their "energy" type. Lunus would have gotten fire, or "Primal Fire" if you will, and Helian would have gotten "Primal Ice"

Just my 2 cents on that topic anyways....