Blight comments

[Raptress]

The following quest lines in ranks 9 and 10 (generally level 90 and 100) will now properly require that the dragon be an Ancient Dragon before they will be offered the quest: Accurate Breath, Hardened Scales, Drain Strike, Spiked Scales, Dragon's Reach, Primal Instant Heal

Meh. :/ This is disappointing.

[walkerglassmire]

The following quest lines in ranks 9 and 10 (generally level 90 and 100) will now properly require that the dragon be an Ancient Dragon before they will be offered the quest: Accurate Breath, Hardened Scales, Drain Strike, Spiked Scales, Dragon's Reach, Primal Instant Heal

Any chance we can get a response as-to the reasoning behind making this decision? Being basic abilities, I can't fathom any reason why any lvl 90 or 100 dragon should not be able to get these.

[Sigi]

Any chance we can get a response as-to the reasoning behind making this decision? Being basic abilities, I can't fathom any reason why any lvl 90 or 100 dragon should not be able to get these.

Meh. :/ This is disappointing.

I totally agree!

[Akrion]

Meh. :/ This is disappointing.

Any chance we can get a response as-to the reasoning behind making this decision? Being basic abilities, I can't fathom any reason why any lvl 90 or 100 dragon should not be able to get these.

I totally agree!

As do I. A completely unnecessary change. What is this? Every single dragon in Istaria should now all be Ancients and only Ancients? (Ancient Melee Dragons, at that with casters considered). No diversity. Tough luck if you don't want to be Ancient, you're just going to have to deal with being significantly more inferior now. Direct and nudge everybody to the absolute endgame of content by making it increasingly pointless to try and remain unique. The WoW method. If you're not on the top of the tier and kitted out in *this exact way*, you're wasting your time.

I'm sorry, Amon, but changes like this make no sense.

[Guaran]

Blight Update 205 has been applied to the Blight Testing Shard on Friday, May 6th and includes the following additions, changes, and fixes...

Changes

• Drain Strike 8 and Spiked Scales 8 will no longer be awarded as part of the ARoP quest.

And

The following quest lines in ranks 9 and 10 (generally level 90 and 100) will now properly require that the dragon be an Ancient Dragon before they will be offered the quest: Accurate Breath, Hardened Scales, Drain Strike, Spiked Scales, Dragon's Reach, Primal Instant Heal

It sounds like they have compromised, making some of the arop abilities now obtainable even by hatchlings, yet others requiring arop to be completed.

Since spiked scales is mentioned twice, I am unsure if this one is still part of arop.

But honestly, I do not see a big problem with these changes. Ancients should be more powerful. You should want to complete it.

... Every single dragon in Istaria should now all be Ancients and only Ancients? (Ancient Melee Dragons, at that with casters considered). No diversity. Tough luck if you don't want to be Ancient, you're just going to have to deal with being significantly more inferior now. ...changes like this make no sense.

You do not have to deal with being inferior, finish arop! Also, hatchies as they currently are, are quite powerful. These changes ADD to ancients, and subtract nothing from hatchies.

Changes like this make perfect sense. It would be rediculous having hatchies run around with all the power of an ancient (or very near it).

[Velea]

The only lines which require you to be Ancient before you can begin the quests are ones which had previously stopped at level 70.

Nothing is being taken away, nerfed or otherwise making someone be "inferior" to what they were previously.

Yes, if you want to complete all the dragon ability quest lines to level 100, you are going to need to be an Ancient Dragon to obtain these new abilities. If you choose to remain as a hatchling dragon at level 100, you can still do so and obtain all the same abilities as you had been able to obtain prior to this change.

[Raptress]

I can understand the reasoning and I also understand that no one is being nerfed. That doesn't mean that I have to like that standard ability quests are getting tiered by whether a dragon is Ancient or not, which I still do not.

I've already made it known where I stand though, and I get the feeling trying to debate about this is going to be pointless. So I'll spare myself the grief.

[Starstilanxs]

Alright, reading through this thread. I -entirely- agree with Akrion and Raptress.

Do NOT make it more difficult on adults by requiring them to ascend to gain these abilities.

First of all, people who Role-Play enjoy having adult characters, they play them as they are and develop them as -adults-. These characters are generally also used to actually play the game with, you take away their ability to progress their characters more gameplay wise because they want to remain as adults for RP purposes. Maybe this is ok for people who just want to play the game (not speaking for everyone of course) but it is -not- right to do something like this and essentually crippling their gameplay progression.

It will make them inferior because they no longer have the ability to gain these higher teir abilities, basically giving them a choice. Either they ascend to gain these abilities, or be signifigantly weaker than ancients who have these higher teir abilities because they refuse to ascend from an RP standpoint.

In a nutshell:
There are -many- of us who have adult characters who we won't ascend due to RP purposes, doing this will essentually screw us over on the gameplay aspect and progression.

[meepsa]

ok, I think this needs to be repeated once more adults are not being defected by taking away abilities

all these quests that need ancient now, weren't there to begin with, they have just been recently added, so it's more of an ancient buff than an adult nerf, because adults ARE AS STRONG AS THEY WERE, now ancients can be stronger, which to me, makes allot of sense.

they are not "taking away" quests for adults, they are limiting them to the high ranks of the NEW quests

[Akrion]

You do not have to deal with being inferior, finish arop! Also, hatchies as they currently are, are quite powerful. These changes ADD to ancients, and subtract nothing from hatchies.

Changes like this make perfect sense. It would be rediculous having hatchies run around with all the power of an ancient (or very near it).

Hatchlings as is are already nowhere near as powerful as Ancients. They can't fly, they don't have Shiled of Gold, they don't have the special breath attacks, they don't have Drulkar's Wrath, they don't have Breath of Flame Burst, they don't have +33% to their armor, they don't have the ARoP abilities.

So no, it doesn't make any sense at all. They're being disallowed from completing quests that are based on level and nothing more. Which up until level 70 doesn't require Adult. So please enlighten me as to how it could possibly make sense in the slightest if a hatchling can get the same base abilities as an Adult, and for them both to be suddenly cut off from the base ability quest lines.

And I can point out one thing that Hatchlings would be far better than Adults at, and Adults would be far better than Ancients at that would make sense:

Evasion. If anything you should have evasion bonuses as a hatchling, and lose them as you ascend to Adult, and lose them further as you ascend to Ancient.

But I doubt this will ever be implemented.

The only lines which require you to be Ancient before you can begin the quests are ones which had previously stopped at level 70.

Nothing is being taken away, nerfed or otherwise making someone be "inferior" to what they were previously.

Yes, if you want to complete all the dragon ability quest lines to level 100, you are going to need to be an Ancient Dragon to obtain these new abilities. If you choose to remain as a hatchling dragon at level 100, you can still do so and obtain all the same abilities as you had been able to obtain prior to this change.

This doesn't change the fact that it makes absolutely no sense. They start out as abilities that are completely unaffected by being Hatchling, or Adult, until they make a sudden change. It's honestly the same as being able to do the first 9 levels of Dimensional Pocket then suddenly having to be adult to get the last. There's no logic behind it other than pushing people to ascend.

[Chasing]

Playing as a dragon character is about your character growing as it ages.

It makes perfect sense that adult and ancient should be able to do things that their earlier forms can't.

between 30-50 the majority of players may ascend to adult

between 90-100 the majority of players may ascend to ancient.

If someone takes a hatchie to 100, then they aren't following the natural flow of the game, they have made a choice to bypass some of the options that are available to them.

If I was going to be purist here, I would say that hatchlings should be restricted from doing any adventure quests above 50 to bring them in line with the ancient/adult differences. However thats not my decision to make :P

[LOVWYRM]

I agree with Guaran, Amon, Velea and Chasing .

Makes all a lot of sense for me.

I shall never be a doctor or unversity professor if I refuse to take all the exams-
nor shall I be allowed to work as such.

[Thicklesip]

That is a very good metaphor, Lov! If I can borrow it for a minute--

If I never get my degree I'm not going to be a doctor. But you don't have to be a doctor to buy groceries.


(Some people think fewer things should be tied to the maturity of a dragon. Some people think more things should be tied to the maturity of a dragon. The devs have final say, but I do think it's interesting to see what people think-- and have us do our best to convince the devs, of course. )

[Sigi]

Playing as a dragon character is about your character growing as it ages.

It makes perfect sense that adult and ancient should be able to do things that their earlier forms can't.

It would make sense if it were things a hatchie couldn't do it's whole hatchie life. not just the last 2 or 3 steps.

between 30-50 the majority of players may ascend to adult

between 90-100 the majority of players may ascend to ancient.

All the heated discussions about when to do rop, is it too soon, can you do enough yourself and now, because "the majority" is doing it at a certain stage, one is almost obliged? I don't think so.

If someone takes a hatchie to 100, then they aren't following the natural flow of the game, they have made a choice to bypass some of the options that are available to them.

You don't make the choice to bypass, you have to make the choice to do ROP. My dragon is 60/60 now and till now I haven't had to bypass anything. Nowhere till now the "natural flow" of the game offered me to become an adult and I doubt if it will.

If I was going to be purist here, I would say that hatchlings should be restricted from doing any adventure quests above 50 to bring them in line with the ancient/adult differences. However thats not my decision to make :P

And I'm glad it's not cause really it's based on nothing supported by the "flow of the game" natural or not.

[Chasing]

This where you and I have differing opinions Sigi. I'm doing what I normally do and play devils advocate.

Is being able to complete the high level adventure quests as a hatchie (aka juvenile) 'right'?

It certainly isn't if you compare adult and ancient as that precedent has been set.

You don't make the choice to bypass, you have to make the choice to do ROP. My dragon is 60/60 now and till now I haven't had to bypass anything. Nowhere till now the "natural flow" of the game offered me to become an adult and I doubt if it will.

If the game isn't telling you about the ROP around level 30ish, then this suggests something is missing (regardless of whether ROP should be completed at 30 or not), players should be guided towards the ROP as it is available from 30ish.

Natural flow would be when a quest becomes available, as that is the level it has been deemed the correct point to take the quest. In this case ROP at becomes available 30-40.

As for your 60/60 Hatchie, you have missed all 3 of the faction breaths as they require adult and 50 adventure (excluding current blight changes).

[Chasing]

Yes it's a game, as I've already said also where people have differing opinions.

I've made a couple of suggestions, just because I've raised a suggestion doesn't automatically mean its going to be included into the game design.

The subject here is different dragon forms are restricted from doing certain quests, which also have a level restriction. So I've raised the question about hatchies.

Quote back to what I said 2/3 posts ago regarding high level hatchies.

they have made a choice to bypass some of the options that are available to them.

[Dracaena]

I can see both sides of the fence on whether adult or ancient on the final steps of the ability chains so am not going to comment on that. What does trouble me no small bit is the very mixed messages we are getting for when to become adult.
　


I always thought the adult rites were geared for a lv50 hatchling and being able to get a *what would you like your tombstone to say* quest at 30 was just that. Possible with enormous amount of help but too high to really tackle yet. Hence why we have some very nice lv50 hatchling scales. Problem being most (on Chaos) consider them obsolete with a vengeance crafter. However that isn't the case on Order (no vengeance crafter), although many are rp dragons who only ascend for their story and could care less what scale they have on (based on what I see later as the few middle range adults look for a scale maker and I have them link what they have on). Now we will have a breath quest at lv40 adult. This knocks the lv50 hatchling scales completely out of the water.

The breath quests at lv50 were again more of a "what would you like your tombstone to say" at 50. Unless you had some big guns to come with you more levels were needed before it was really viable to do. How will they be able to do the quest at 40, unless the targets are getting revamped?
　


The problem I observe with ascending at lv30 is many fly around for a week or three and then poof, early fliers often vanish. I think this may be due to the fact the hatchling really couldn't do much but watch others do their quest. There is no real sense of accomplishment, of "I Did It!". Epic quest lines should be epic, the old class weapon quests in original EQ took you though heck and high water. But when you finally got that weapon you had the satisfaction of a reward well earned and a feeling of accomplishment. The early fliers don't get that. It seems to me the beggars you get in every game who generally ask for money, instead ask for someone to do their rites. Istarian style beggars.

What really boggled my mind recently was a conversation in New Trismus on Chaos, I was playing my lv34 hatchling. The new(er) player thought I was some kind of freak for not being adult already. I don't think they understood at all when I tried to explain I was too little and wanted to get my hatchling scales before even thinking about starting the rites. Something has gone very wrong that people think you MUST do rites at 30.
　


But that aside, you then have this level thirty something hatchling ready to ascend and they go to Peak of Storms. Which is now inhabited by ghost dragons and a rift clone of Elial. This doesn't follow lore. The dragons who happened to be at Sleeper's Peak the day the humans took their battle there withdrew when the armies approached. Few dragons stayed to observe. Many more bipeds died that day then dragon and there should be biped ghosts there.

Why the rift clone lv160 Elial instead of the lv70 version that used to be there? I hear he does a good job of one shotting ascension party members who are trying to guard this thirty something hatchling up to the platform. Does put a damper on having low level friends come as guests. I understand Elial is intended now to be this way and I hear he will work to complete your ancient rite if you botch the fight in the rift. I really don't understand what was ever wrong with the way the ghosts on the peak used to be.
　



Dracaena the Confused

[Darkwing_Duck]

As do I. A completely unnecessary change. What is this? Every single dragon in Istaria should now all be Ancients and only Ancients? (Ancient Melee Dragons, at that with casters considered). No diversity. Tough luck if you don't want to be Ancient, you're just going to have to deal with being significantly more inferior now. Direct and nudge everybody to the absolute endgame of content by making it increasingly pointless to try and remain unique. The WoW method. If you're not on the top of the tier and kitted out in *this exact way*, you're wasting your time.

I'm sorry, Amon, but changes like this make no sense.

I couldn`t agree more. not to mention ancient dragons (sizes) tend to take more RAM, and video card speed, so people with less powerfull computers sometimes rather stay adults. least from what I`ve heard. course I could be wronge, but either way. why do this? I can understand epic spells/abilities like Drulkar`s wrath, and acid breath. but all the basic abilities? O.o