Returning Player confusion

[Dhalin]

There've been a few times I've posted on the boards about coming back to try the game again, and it is difficult for me to remember everything I've read about the game...

But anyways, tonight, I made a serious attempt to "come back" to Istaria.

The last thing I was working on, was trying to level a biped, my Saris.

She's currently 56 Warrior, 61-ish Cleric. I chose those two schools because I want a nicely-armored melee class that can heal themselves and use the full line of Gift spells (which require Augmentation).

Leveling Cleric by itself limits the kinds of armor I can wear, so I added Warrior to it for the Armor Use and extra Health they get (as well as 1HC/2HC).

Anyways, I remember why I 'failed' to come back to Istaria last time -- I took her out, trying to get levelups. I'm trying to get Warrior to 61 so I can make a whole set of Level 61 armor and not have to carry around two sets of armor, so I'd level one school to x1 and then level the other school to x1 and get a new set of armor and get rid of the old.

The last time I tried to play Istaria, my Warrior was 55, and XP was painfully slow. Mob kills take forever and it is dangerous -- with only two heals and very little defensive abilities, I don't last long if I get 2 mobs on me at once, and kills that yield trophies that I can currently turn in, give so pitifully low XP (not even a noticeable increase on the XP meter).

Tonight, I decided I'd try my old trick: grab my Level 90+ dragon, invite my Saris to a group and go to town on those fire opal golems near Saritova.

Well, that XP isn't much better. Faster kills, about the same XP as single kills that my Saris would normally get, though no trophies to turn in (trophies are a bit too rare to rely on them anyways).

But now... golems drop no Hoard items anymore, it seems.

That stinks.

For me to get any decent kill speed, I must spend Hoard. But if I keep using Gold Rage, Silver Strike, et. al, I'm going to run out of Hoard unless I kill something that drops Hoard. I don't get the reasoning for removing the HV drops from Golems (what DOES drop it now? Undead only? UGH), but suddenly, this leveling method won't work anymore.

So basically, I got a biped that is nearly impossible to level because the kills are too darn slow and too dangerous, unless I just drop the Warrior school entirely, but then if I do that, I have to use out-dated weapons and armor because Cleric doesn't get enough Armor Use or 1HC.

So now, I'm left with trying to figure out why the heck this is so hard to do. Trophy drops are much too rare to rely on unless they boosted the drop rate (based upon the golems I killed, I'm going to say, probably not. I got like 6 trophies out of 30 kills, which barely gave me 10% of a level).

I think I liked how the game was before more, when I could kill anything and keep my dragon going with the hoard drops that dropped off of anything.

Edit: I also tried leveling her by farming trophies with my dragon. After 50+ kills and not even enough trophies for 25% of a level, I gave up on that.

[Fratricide]

The biggest problem I see here is that you tried to lvl 2 classes at the same time to 100. It is way faster to lvl 1 class to 100 and then swap classes and start the second class to 100. If you did so, especially if you started with Warrior first, you would not only have that armor use satisfied, but you would also be capable of using 1hc and shields without any issues all the way to max level. The biggest problem in leveling 2 classes at a time is your adv class rating goes up way too fast and so you'd have to fight stuff at such a huge level in order to gain levels it would be virtually impossible, or at the very least improbable, and pointless to do so.

[Dhalin]

The biggest problem I see here is that you tried to lvl 2 classes at the same time to 100. It is way faster to lvl 1 class to 100 and then swap classes and start the second class to 100. If you did so, especially if you started with Warrior first, you would not only have that armor use satisfied, but you would also be capable of using 1hc and shields without any issues all the way to max level. The biggest problem in leveling 2 classes at a time is your adv class rating goes up way too fast and so you'd have to fight stuff at such a huge level in order to gain levels it would be virtually impossible, or at the very least improbable, and pointless to do so.

But wouldn't I have the same problem trying to level the 2nd class?

Say I leveled Warrior to 100.
Then I go back and try to level Cleric, the Cleric would be Level 1 but yet Rating what, 30+, 40+?

Also, how does one level Warrior with absolutely no healing spells whatsoever? Warriors can cast Revitalize and Improved Revitalize, but they need either Life or Nature skill (neither of which warriors get naturally, right?). Also, what about lack of buffs? If mob kills are too difficult with Gifts and other buffs I get by having Cleric up, how do I kill things my own level Without them, and/or without having to farm mats to make/buy hundreds of buff scrolls?

Mobs my own level are difficult kills and require generous use of Revitalize spells, I couldn't imagine attempting to do this without using them.

That, and my rating isn't -that- much higher; my 56 Warrior has a rating of something like 61 or something like that. That's only a 6-rating discrepancy. Even then, that doesn't solve the ridiculousness as far as how slow the kills are, and how squishy the school is. It might shave 800-1k off of XP per kill (last I remember, kills give like 3k XP or something like that), but the rating shouldn't affect kill speed.

So, I ask again, if I did do "pure warrior", how do you heal yourself? Would you have to sit on your knees between battles? I remember having to do that as a dragon before Primal Health, only I at least had the Breeze spells.

[C`gan]

Since I've played pure warrior for the longest time and only recently picked up crossbowman, cleric, and healer, I think I can help with this one.

For warrior, the trick is fighting what you can. For me, that's been treants. I've been using treants as the base material for my carpentry class. It works the same for gatherer, blacksmith, or fletcher. If wood isn't your thing, I'd also recommend the metal golems. The other suggestion I have is go out with young hatchlings on their RoP quests. If you're really unhappy with those options, I'd suggest looking at the deadlands that are a tier equivalent to your warrior class level.

[Fratricide]

The warrior school truly isn't terribly squishy... and neither is the cleric for that matter... The biggest thing that you must take into account is if you are solo fighting, I tend to find that while the damage is lower, it is usually more benificial to use a 1h weapon with shield vs 2h weapons. I would have to assume that since you are leveling cleric at the same time that you would just use the same shield and 1hc weapon that you already are using for the other. The other thing is that you need to make sure you place your points in the right places for survivability.

If you kept cleric where it is now, and just lvled warrior to max from where you are now, you'd solve the healing portion, but make sure you tech all your gear according to what you are actually fighting. I typically found it easiest to fight golems and ice type beetles as a warrior. I would also suggest to ensure that you are using potions when you can. If you ask any pure adventurer out there, I'm sure that you will find that most of them are always utilizing as many potions as are available to them.

[Shadowedraven]

You could also solve your problem by exploring the paladin class if you have 2H slash to 200 and life to 150 which judging from your warrior and cleric levels it sounds like you should have. I am fairly new to Istaria and started a sari as warrior/cleric with the intent of shifting over to paladin once I could meet the requirements to do so. The neatest thing about Istaria is if you don't like a class you don't have to stay with it. You can quite literally be every class and perform every type of crafting in the game... it might be slow leveling if you are trying to fast track to 'end game' but then what? Do nothing but socialize? Well if you're sociable yes, you could do that ...or you could just take your time, explore the game, make friends, craft if you want to and generally have fun... which is what I plan to do.

[Dhalin]

Hmmm.

I read in the Blight patch notes that they're removing the secondary ore requirement for alloy metals, which will make it MUCH easier for me to level my armorsmithing/weaponsmithing schools.

They have been holding me up for some time, and they are the reason why I have limited (or no) techs on my gear; my skill was barely high enough to make the armor I could wear, let alone trick it out with the best techs.

Once the patch reaches Live, I should be able to level these schools very easily, I could gather mithril with my dragon, and have my biped smelt it into bars for large XP gains until I can make mithril armor/weapons and then I'll be able to make anything I need, with techs.

I think that'll help a bunch. Also, I've been wondering, should I consider trying to level Mage up to level 7 for Flame Attack, even if it is only Tier 1? I remember when my dragon first got Primal Attack II (my dragon was high enough to cast IV but there was none up on consigner at the time) and I saw a huge jump in auto-attack damage alone.

, I'd suggest looking at the deadlands that are a tier equivalent to your warrior class level.

....eeew.

Deadlands? You mean, Aegis mobs? I'm getting my butt handed to me almost by Gold Golems... I doubt I'd last more than 2 seconds in the Northern Deadlands lol. Unless, of course, they did serious nerfs to Aegis/Deadlands...

You could also solve your problem by exploring the paladin class if you have 2H slash to 200 and life to 150 which judging from your warrior and cleric levels it sounds like you should have.

I considered Paladin, but they only get 7 Augmentation per level which means I'd have to do 3 training points every level just to cast the gifts "on time". That, and Warrior/Cleric are already 50+, my rating would be pretty high, I'd have to completely unlearn the schools and start over...

[anonimas]

As one player said - use your higer lvl character to kill mobs that: a) are easy to kill; b) drops trophies. I am lvl.82 Warrior, lvl.71 Cleric and lvl.38 Berserker. I collected trophies for my Cleric and my vault is still overflooded with them. For my berserker, I found it easier to kill Massive elms: they drop stuff that can be sold to Rhahool (money money...).
Golems do rarely drop hoarding items: I found that these are dropped by Aegis in Deadlands (lvl.112 Indestructable Fiyakis) or Ogres.
As people said - consider growing up one class, then level another. Example: grow up Cleric, invest training points into health and life (so that your healings get stronger), then to Warrior. I would still consider farming trophy tokens with your Dragon (from easy mobs) and collecting them. Once it took me some 150 Granite golem trophies to advance some 3 levels - not bad, I have to admit. Another solution - group hunting. I may say from my own experience: needed to kill Jade golems. Invited one friend to come as a healer so that I fight, he heals; we fought very good without losses/deaths so that we both gained xp. Well, that may be not the fastest way, but still a possibility. Example: as a lvl.82 Warrior I hunt Marble golems. Your Cleric character may come within safe distance and heal me while gaining some xp (not too much, but still better than nothing). Solution number two: fight as w Warrior and invite some lower lvl Cleric/Healer to aid you with heals, you both get xp - you fight without problems, Cleric/Healer gets xp without real fight.

[Philidius]

Getting mage high enough for ice/fire/energy attacks will help loads, it's not the bonus damage bonus that's the important thing, it's changing the damage type you attack with. Getting Monk to 12 might be an idea as well, foresight is really useful against metal golems, since if you time it right it negates their multistrike ability, gives dodge as well as a nice bonus.

[AmonGwareth]

To point out, if you have NO teched equipment then you are only hurting yourself. Maybe ask around, buy some teched equipment from other players?

I like to mostly play warrior like schools, but I leveled enough Cleric to have some heals and enough Mage to be able to lead with a bolt and hit them with a DoT. In addition, being able to cast gifts on yourself is very useful as well. Or use scrolls and potions.

Dhalin, it really sounds like you are limiting yourself and getting frustrated at the game about it. Sounds like you might benefit from reading some of the older patch notes to see what is available to you or ask your friends for tips.

[Dhalin]

Getting mage high enough for ice/fire/energy attacks will help loads, it's not the bonus damage bonus that's the important thing, it's changing the damage type you attack with. Getting Monk to 12 might be an idea as well, foresight is really useful against metal golems, since if you time it right it negates their multistrike ability, gives dodge as well as a nice bonus.

That's what I was thinking, someone else suggested treants, which are I assume, very weak against flame, right?

I might try that monk idea too. I doubt another 1 rating (if it even adds that) would really hurt anything, but I'd gain some useful skills in the process.

[Dhalin]

To point out, if you have NO teched equipment then you are only hurting yourself. Maybe ask around, buy some teched equipment from other players?

I like to mostly play warrior like schools, but I leveled enough Cleric to have some heals and enough Mage to be able to lead with a bolt and hit them with a DoT. In addition, being able to cast gifts on yourself is very useful as well. Or use scrolls and potions.

Dhalin, it really sounds like you are limiting yourself and getting frustrated at the game about it. Sounds like you might benefit from reading some of the older patch notes to see what is available to you or ask your friends for tips.

I tried to keep up with patch notes, best-I-could, but while I was away from the game, I forgot when the last time I played exactly was. I got lost in which patches were released when I last played and which were not, and the whole thing is confusing now.

I've got a few ideas to try now, though. To reduce my rating, I can drop a couple experiment schools (I considered ELAR at one point, so I've got scout and ELAR on like 20 or so) and I already have Mage at 4 so I can put another 3 levels on that for Flame Attack, someone suggested Lv6 monk for that one ability, etc.

Also, when the patch comes out, I'm going to work on crafts.

I knew Un-teched gear was hurting, wasn't sure how much it was hurting. I tried asking around a few times to get some tech'd gear made, but I must have just been online at bad times, didn't get any responses. But if I level my armorsmithing up some more (with the alloy metal change next live patch!!), I can make my own tech'd gear, provided I have a little luck when trying to farm up the techs I don't already have.

Also, if I level up my crafts, I can clean my vault out... it is stuffed to the max, as is my dragon's t2 library, of expert forms that I didn't want to throw out because I knew I'd need them one day. If I cleaned my vault out, I could hold more than 1 suit of armor which I think might help too.

So basically, I need to get that mage and monk worked out, and wait for the next live patch... probably get my dragon on 100 and try to hunt down some techs I need while I wait for the alloy metal change.

Thanks for the suggestions, all!

[Knossos]

Bear in mind that entry to Monk school now requires you to be at least level 10 Mage.

Knossos

[AmonGwareth]

Bear in mind that entry to Monk school now requires you to be at least level 10 Mage.

Knossos

Incorrect. To join Monk you must learn 10 levels of Warrior.

[Knossos]

Amon:

Sorry I was incorrect.

Knossos

[AmonGwareth]

Amon:

Sorry I was incorrect.

Knossos

No worries! You had me wondering there for a moment that we'd messed up. Heheh. I had to go into the database and check to make sure before I posted.

[Dhalin]

Derp.

I found something else I was forgetting to do.

For some reason, I left TNK28 as my craft school. I could have, say, switched to BLK100 and put on a Level 60-ish +armor cape I had in my vault and some Lv60-ish +strength jewelry. Duh. That might have given me a small bonus, haha. I'll have to remember to do that.

[Dhalin]

Update: Today I logged on, and took my Level 4 mage out for some quests in NT, getting Level 7. Picked up Flame and Ice Attack I.

Went and got Monk 5, but didn't realize that I had to get Level 10 to get Foresight mastered, so I gotta get 5 more levels.

Anyways, I checked the Mahagra trophy NPC and it suggested several mobs, among which were Massive Oak Treants. I was a little hesitant at first, but I figured "meh, try it." So I took my 56 warrior out to the Acul area.

Turns out, for some reason, they're suddenly massive wimps. With Flame attack on my weapon, they aren't that hard to kill at all. With my 1h mace, I was doing about 100-120 damage per hit (a level 50, not a 55 mace) and I could fight a Massive Tree (tried a 57 first) and I only got hit once. I equipped my greataxe and I was doing 180-200 damage per swing and I tried a few Level 59 massive oaks and never got below 50% health.

I don't know why those gold golems were hurting so much, but these massive oaks are wimps. Also, I changed my craft school to BLK and stuck that cape on for an instant +48 armor, so maybe that had something to do with it too.

I spent about 35-40 minutes, got about 22% or so XP, and got 9 trophies (I got another big chunk o' XP when I turned in 5 of them. Started with 25% XP, now I'm about 65%-ish XP towards 57). I woulda had a lot more trophies if I could actually find more massive trees (I tried the area north of Acul as it was the quickest one to get to that I know of), I had to kill a lot of Oak, Enraged Oak, and a few Saplings while looking for Massives.

So, at least until 61, I know what to do next. Hopefully by then, the patch is out, and I can raise my armorcraft school with the new alloy metal change.

Thanks for the help, all!

[Daulnay]

Couple more suggestions.
- Get a bolt teched for range, for pulling.
- Consider learning the Druid school. You gain Nature skill (10/level), and some nice abilities (Cloak of Thorns!). Nature spells will give you some crowd control (root, AOE root), and a bolt. Your Cleric and Druid will be able to cast all or nearly all of each others' spells, too.

[Korchak Strongbone]

Just an FYI note on mastering abilites. Generally on abilities that are masterable it is double the level at which you gained it. So for example if you gained Foresite at level 5 then at 10 it would be masterable by all other schools. This being said you can see why 50 would be the last level where something could be mastered.

If your new to game. Might I suggest doing a school where you get 10 armor use per level. That way at 91 you will have 910 armor use and won't have any armor wearing issues as you change schools. Then all you have to do is get a craft to 91 to wear 910 cloth with a new adventure school since cloth is based off of the highest school and not the highest adventure. BLACKSMITH would a good choice on that as well, they gain skill in wood,metal,stone very good base for all other schools. Cheers -Kor