In-game Clock

[Akrion]

That's the core of it, yes, though, aside from displaying localTimeStr, there's an issue of making sure the client doesn't call the above every frame.

Not saying it's impossible, just saying it's not as trivial as two lines of code.

I just said that getting the time was that trivial. :P I know the entire process is going to be more than just 2 lines of code, I didn't go into detail about this becuase I didn't think I would need to explain game programming concepts to VI's game programmers. :B Though honestly if it's a difficult thing for you guys to limit the frequency of something to once every x number of game ticks or once every 1000ms then things must be crazier than I thought. xD

[Tcei]

The first time I was exposed to it I was annoyed because its 2 hours behind my time zone and I was like "waht do I care what time it is on the server" but once you start attending events and groups and such you realize just how awesome it is to just say "Everyone here at 6 server" and everyone knows what time that means to them.

Probably out of the abilities of our own Istaria but that is sooo helpful!! I know reading all the Order posts trying to get people together online and havingto post up 12 different timezones for everyone to try and figure out what time the poster is meaning - this would be a loved feature on Order. LOL.

Unfortunately, (unless something has changed since the last time I played) in-game time is handled client side, meaning that it can very easily be two very different times for different players.

[Raptress]

Unfortunately, (unless something has changed since the last time I played) in-game time is handled client side, meaning that it can very easily be two very different times for different players.

As far as I have ever been able to observe, the in-game day/night cycle is synched between clients unless the client modifies it afterwards with something like /settime. Not that it would matter for purposes of timekeeping; the cycle only lasts like.. an hour or two.

[Dhalin]

I might be devil’s advocate but ......

Don`t have Pc’s already a clock in their bottom toolbar? So Full window mode (toolbar visible) + game = Clock visible. Problem solved!


No offense but I think that Dev’s have much more important things to do than installing a clock which we already can see on our pc.

That's not "full-screen".

That's "windowed, stretched to fill most of the screen except the systray/taskbar".

There *is* a difference, and many games run better if you do an absolute full-screen, which I tend to do. That, and the taskbar eats up a small portion of the screen, and some of us like having more area to place UI elements and/or have more area that we can see what's going on around our character.

I shouldn't have to be forced to buy a whole 'nuther clock to set beside the computer, or run the game in windowed mode just because it is missing something nearly every other MMORPG has.

As Frith said, it is just one of those things that makes the game look old. When we want newer players to join up and stay, we want the game to look good and attractive, and when it is missing simple features like this, I think that some players might go "errr, wut?" when they realize some of this basic stuff is missing.

I know there are some limits as far as the dated engine we use, which makes some of those things impossible, but this... a simple clock... surely isn't one of those "impossible" things.

[Gimthen]

I shouldn't have to be forced to buy a whole 'nuther clock to set beside the computer, or run the game in windowed mode just because it is missing something nearly every other MMORPG has.

Granted, I would not have Mimir's Clock on my desk either :P ... ( no offense Mimir - just different taste)

But because nearly every other MMORPG has it does not mean that Istaria must have it also? That's just what makes every MMORPG unique and interesting!

(there are already enough "wow" similar style games in the world)

I just don`t see the point when you think that we as humans live in a world where time is displayed on so many things: mobile, pc's, clocks, even radio/tv is in a certain way time related. Why force it also on a game when you have all the other possibilities for something -which in my view- doesn`t give a real benefit to the gaming experience.

[Mimir]

Granted, I would not have Mimir's Clock on my desk either :P ... ( no offense Mimir - just different taste)

But because nearly every other MMORPG has it does not mean that Istaria must have it also? That's just what makes every MMORPG unique and interesting!

(there are already enough "wow" similar style games in the world)

I just don`t see the point when you think that we as humans live in a world where time is displayed on so many things: mobile, pc's, clocks, even radio/tv is in a certain way time related. Why force it also on a game when you have all the other possibilities for something -which in my view- doesn`t give a real benefit to the gaming experience.

/agree (except the clock crack ) Remember what your parents always said...Just because little Johnny jumped off a cliff would you?

I think a real time clock sort of detracts from the immersion of the game. Unless one has a completely darkened room or playing with a VR hood it is not a terrible thing to turn ones head and look at a clock, a watch or some other time piece. (Dragon clock included)

In game time might be nice, would like to be able to tell how long it is until it gets dark or light, but besides that Meh! time shime...we don't need no steenking time!

[Malaya]

maybe if we don't put local time, how about we put ingame time that will be common for everyone? It's hard to arange ingame raids/meetings with all these different time zones on the forum. People have to post the time for many time zones and even then it gets confusing. I think it would be better if we just said " 6:00 pm server time" or something like that. Then while playing we could keep track of the time easier to go to the "meeting"
Just suggesting.

[Akrion]

It's amusing how something as simple as an in-game clock can spark so much debate. "Oh, I don't need one, so therefore nobody else does!"

[Thicklesip]

Alternatively, "In-game clocks are vital to my well-being, why are you jerks linking Amazon.com desk clocks at me?!"

This thread somewhat amuses and mostly terrifies me.

That reminds me, I need to go put the wind-up clock back down on the baby brother's computer table next to his monitor, the kid plays Minecraft full-screen and likes to pretend he's always surprised when homework hour rolls around....

[Steelclaw]

Using server time for event coordination may be a bit painful. The day/night cycle is loosely tied to an existing notion of server time, and as you may notice, that cycle is pretty short. To get an idea, go take a look at the various clocks in game. The minute hand moves pretty darn fast!

I cringe at the thought of adding another kind of "server time" that coincides with real time, in addition to the existing server time that controls the day/night cycle. That creates ambiguity and thus confusion, especially if the designers decide to make use of the current notion of server time later on. "Which server time? The slow one or the fast one?"

Similarly, slowing down the existing server time sucks for everyone. Since people play on a loose schedule, they'd probably end up seeing the same time of day in game each time they log in.

Some non-interesting clock window (like the notepad) may be within the realm of possibility, though the time displayed on it would either be some combination of GMT and/or local time, but not server time, for the reasons listed above.

As far as event coordination goes, I suggest using some of the existing tools for that purpose, for example, http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedform.html. At least that way, as a participant, you don't need to log in or do anything fancy to figure out how long you have until the event starts.

Also, I suggest learning the GMT offset for your time zone and figuring out how to convert between two time zones given their GMT offsets. We're all part of an international community, so the ability to convert between time zones is as important as being able to tell time.

[Akrion]

I think the idea of "Server time" for coordination is more along the lines of a similar idea to what Eve Online does, that being the in-game clock simply displays GMT for everybody and not local time (It would be a bit silly to just base the time off of the server's own timezone as that seems rather arbitrary). So "An op at 04:00 Eve time" is going to be 04:00 on the in-game clock for everybody. The best option in my opinion (assuming anything is done) is to display both client local and GMT in an optional clock window, which is one thing I love about Istaria and that really sets it apart from most every other MMO out there; extremely customizable UI.

[Dhalin]

It's amusing how something as simple as an in-game clock can spark so much debate. "Oh, I don't need one, so therefore nobody else does!"

It is unbelievable, eh?

"Let's not add something to the game that some players might like just because I personally don't think I'd ever use it"...

Nevermind the fact that nobody is being forced to use it...

Sometimes I hate "Suggestions" forums in MMORPG games; no matter what game it is, you always see these sorts of responses.

It is just crazy, the twisted logic some people use to shoot something down for no real actual reason other than just for the sake of shooting it down, how far some people will go to shoot down the simplest, smallest idea just because they don't personally think it is necessary.

Had this been some change that one couldn't opt-out, hey yeah I could understand if there'd be a few nay-sayers, but when it is something that doesn't affect them in the slightest, well...

My apologies, but I really don't get the huge negativity. Would you people be really that bothered if an option for an in-game clock were added?

Would it destroy your personal ability to enjoy the game? Would the game suddenly be broken if someone were able to tell the time without using an outside-the-game clock?

I guess one has to be a psychiatrist to understand this type of mentality; perhaps we could get Frith or someone here to dissect their responses, maybe they'd understand it, because I certainly don't. I'm usually the more logical sort, and this type of backwards logic completely escapes me.

The only ounce of logical counter-argument is "why use dev time on this?" but yet we already answered that: It is so easy that there's really not much time actually being used on it.

The rest is just backwards logic that just plain doesn't make sense. "I don't personally see a need so I think it shouldn't be" and "You could spend real money and buy a clock and stick it on your desk instead!" (what if I don't have ROOM on my desk!?) or "Run it in windowed mode!" (what if I wanna run it in FULLSCREEN mode!?) etc etc.

... meh, whatever.

Edit: We should make it against the rules (it is actually Trolling to be quite honest with you) to nay-say a suggestion without actual, real reasons as to why not, and this thread is exactly the reason we need such a rule. Now, I'm not going to report anyone in this thread for trolling, but I will say that I am quite disappointed with the responses.

[Northwind]

You walk a dangerous path if you start calling Trolls the posters that do not share your views regarding the importance of an in-game clock.

[Steelclaw]

Hey, hey, let's keep this thread on the clock, not the people posting in the thread (go take that stuff to rants if you need to let it out).

A clock, being so immaterial to the client, would be done on free time. It's also not going to be some obtrusive thing. We're not talking about 10cm high, flashing, magenta digits overlaid on the game window. The clock would be another UI window that, like all others, could be closed (and probably not open by default).

[Akrion]

A clock, being so immaterial to the client, would be done on free time. It's also not going to be some obtrusive thing. We're not talking about 10cm high, flashing, magenta digits overlaid on the game window. The clock would be another UI window that, like all others, could be closed (and probably not open by default).

I expected as much and that seems perfectly reasonable. x3 I'd offer to do it in my free time but the significant bit is going to be dependant on the source so.. Either way, I'm sure a number of people will find it helpful if/when it does ever materialize.

[Malaya]

Using server time for event coordination may be a bit painful. The day/night cycle is loosely tied to an existing notion of server time, and as you may notice, that cycle is pretty short. To get an idea, go take a look at the various clocks in game. The minute hand moves pretty darn fast!

I cringe at the thought of adding another kind of "server time" that coincides with real time, in addition to the existing server time that controls the day/night cycle. That creates ambiguity and thus confusion, especially if the designers decide to make use of the current notion of server time later on. "Which server time? The slow one or the fast one?"

Similarly, slowing down the existing server time sucks for everyone. Since people play on a loose schedule, they'd probably end up seeing the same time of day in game each time they log in.

Some non-interesting clock window (like the notepad) may be within the realm of possibility, though the time displayed on it would either be some combination of GMT and/or local time, but not server time, for the reasons listed above.

As far as event coordination goes, I suggest using some of the existing tools for that purpose, for example, http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedform.html. At least that way, as a participant, you don't need to log in or do anything fancy to figure out how long you have until the event starts.

Also, I suggest learning the GMT offset for your time zone and figuring out how to convert between two time zones given their GMT offsets. We're all part of an international community, so the ability to convert between time zones is as important as being able to tell time.

I am not suggesting that we should change the day-night cycle. I'm just saying we could have a normal 24 hour clock (the same thing as just putting a local clock) except it would be the same time for everyone (6 pm for China and America) The way we might be able to coordinate meetings easier (my view)

[Gimthen]

We should make it against the rules (...) to nay-say a suggestion without actual, real reasons as to why not, ...

Whether or not I am one of the mentioned nay-say’ers, I ‘ll bite.

For me personally when we as players make suggestions to the dev’s it is to express our wishes in how the gaming experience for all players could be improved, and also often what our dreams are on where the game should go, whether or not they are realistic or plausible. Stupid suggestions don’t exist as far as I know as every player has different opinions on everything.

This suggestion started by quickly doing something before going to work (yes I do that also sometimes!), and losing the sense of time –as we all get caught up in the game, with the need to go and grab our watch.

But for resolving that problem having a clock might be handy, for me personally I do not find it something which increases the benefits to the player or a player’s gaming experience. This is as the requirement for time is mainly required in real life rather than game life. Granted, playing on Full screen does not provide you with a clock on your pc. Hence I play in windowed mode when I am in a rush and full screen otherwise (or I make sure an alarm is on or clock is nearby to prevent me caught up in game and ending up late) But the requirement for having a clock in such circumstances is not to increase the gaming experience, but to assist a player in ensuring he does not get caught up in game and create problem (ie being late) in real life.

The suggestion of some to relate it to the Istaria server time, can have its benefits, especially in Roleplaying purposes. I remember that Ultima Online had a actual calendar system with hours/days/years, but mainly on the forums (if memory serves me right). Whether such an “Istaria related” clock would increase gaming experience, is not up to me to say as I am not that involved in RP.

Yes, for me Dev time could be spent on other and more wider matters that could improve the game experience for all players rather than a clock showing the actual time (not speaking on server time now). However, I am only 1 opinion just as there are plenty of other views as this thread has shown.

Note: I am not trying to be negative by seeing something added to the game, but question the functionality of it to the overall game experience. If my questioning –or negativity as it seems to be called- offended or has hurt you, then please accept my apologies.

/leaves discussion as the Dwarf notes a solution may have been found by Steelclaw.

[Dhalin]

A clock, being so immaterial to the client, would be done on free time. It's also not going to be some obtrusive thing. We're not talking about 10cm high, flashing, magenta digits overlaid on the game window. The clock would be another UI window that, like all others, could be closed (and probably not open by default).

That's all I was asking for in the first place.

A simple time display in a small window that is closed by default, that is opened by typing /window clockwindow or some-crap.

[Mimir]

It is unbelievable, eh?

...
Edit: We should make it against the rules (it is actually Trolling to be quite honest with you) to nay-say a suggestion without actual, real reasons as to why not, and this thread is exactly the reason we need such a rule. Now, I'm not going to report anyone in this thread for trolling, but I will say that I am quite disappointed with the responses.

So if I am reading this correctly...If I (or others) don't happen to agree with what you are saying I (we) am/are a troll? The purpose of the thread was really just to get positive feedback on the idea of an in game clock not to gather other opinions on the idea? Pretty closed minded I would think. For the developers to expend time on something what may seem as trivial as a clock for one player seems a big waste of their time. The reason that a clock is needed is that Wow has one was not a valid argument.

If this is something that you feel very strongly about, I suggest you try to convince me (and possibly others) that my support (read I changed my mind and a clock in game would be wonderful) rather than tell me because I disagree with your point of view I am a troll.

As it stands right now I think it is a rather silly use of developer resources. But that could be just me.


Edit........
I also think that ANY player with a paid subscription should be able to pose their opinion in ANY topic without fear of being labeled a Troll.

[Dhalin]

RE:Mimir:

Edit: We should make it against the rules (it is actually Trolling to be quite honest with you) to nay-say a suggestion without actual, real reasons as to why not, and this thread is exactly the reason we need such a rule.

to nay-say a suggestion without actual, real reasons as to why not

without actual, real reasons as to why not

If someone disagrees with me, that's fine.

If they are going to nay-say a suggestion, that's fine, as long as they have an actual reason.

But to do so, for the sole purpose of saying "no", without providing any real, actual reasons? That sounds more like Trolling to me. *shrugs* The only reason one would do something like that, is for the sole purpose of annoying the original poster, and that's what "Trolling" is, right? Arguing for the sake of arguing?