what I see is (RoP/ARoP)

[flamestar]

If it makes you Vets feel any better, I'm not a vet to this game, but I love it here anyway. The graphics are beauitifully done, not to mention I've never seen another game yet with the "day/night" cycle of Istaria. Also the colors are more realistic then say, WoW, and besides, I kinda like the "retro" look this game has.

The crafting actually helps me relax, and helping others build things is a good way to earn coin. The stories in the quests are pretty cool. The mobs are challanging, and you have to actually learn which spells/abilities/weapons work best for which targets, and in which order they should be used for the greatest effect. If a mob is too strong for me right then, I go hunt something else until I get strong enough to fight that first mob, or work on my crafting to make better armor/weapons.

As for groups and powerleveling... Whenever a higher lvl player is grouped with me, I actually seem to get less xp then I would fighting the mob solo. But it is fun to hunt things as a group. The other players I've met so far have been very nice, and helpful.

I actually haven't seen anything worth complaining about in this game so far, and hopefully won't for a long while. Also looking forward to doing my RoP and earning those Adult wings.

[Dhalin]

Thank you, devs, for the 30-day wait on RoP.

Muchly needed, I think it will alleviate a lot of the problems we've been seeing with trial peeps wanting PLs and carries through RoP.

Thanks!

[Krinharth]

Anyway, your time is not free. It should cost them money or something in order to craft scales for them. Ask them for one set of components that you need for your own scales in exchange next time.

it doesn't work also. I've try ask, and promice was broken.
So only one, hwo tell from the begining, that can't play, and left after trial, do something for me as reward.

so...or prepaid, or..?

[Darkwing_Duck]

A 30 day requirement has been added to the quest "Becoming An Adult Dragon: Choose Your Path" with the next update.

omg Velea, and Amon you guys are awesome!

*high fives*

[Mimir]

it doesn't work also. I've try ask, and promice was broken.
So only one, hwo tell from the begining, that can't play, and left after trial, do something for me as reward.

so...or prepaid, or..?

I think what you are trying to say here is:

SHOW ME THE MONEY!!

Before you do the work...It is a good idea with the trial accounts.

[Dhalin]

I think what you are trying to say here is:

SHOW ME THE MONEY!!

Before you do the work...It is a good idea with the trial accounts.

...and what do you expect a <Lv30 to pay you that'd actually be meaningful to you? Just curious...

5-10s at most?

[Mimir]

...and what do you expect a <Lv30 to pay you that'd actually be meaningful to you? Just curious...

5-10s at most?

First is was not me I was translating in what I thought in a slightly humorous fashion. And second I don't think it is the amount so much as if the player had an agreement it should be honored. Unless you are advocating the 14 day players get a free pass to everything for no charge.. and can and should lie, cheat and steal their way to goods and services... In that case take it up with Krinharth.

[Chasing]

A 30 day requirement has been added to the quest "Becoming An Adult Dragon: Choose Your Path" with the next update.

Great )))))))))

[Dhalin]

First is was not me I was translating in what I thought in a slightly humorous fashion. And second I don't think it is the amount so much as if the player had an agreement it should be honored. Unless you are advocating the 14 day players get a free pass to everything for no charge.. and can and should lie, cheat and steal their way to goods and services... In that case take it up with Krinharth.

Oh, no, people shouldn't lie and cheat their way in/out of stuff.

I fully agree.

Perhaps I just misunderstood what was posted.

I didn't mean to say that 14-dayers should get everything for free, but yet when you think about it, a 14-dayer (or even a paid newbie) doesn't have a whole lot to offer some 100/100/100 dragon for making lv20-40 scales, either.

So, expecting everyone to "pay up" doesn't really work, as there's not really much of an economy in Istaria, especially at the low end of the spectrum.

Now, if someone made an agreement, then oh yes, they should honor it. I agree whole-heartedly. Or the least they could back out politely and say "err, sorry, I thought I'd have that much money by the time you got done but it didn't work out" or something.

[Garfonso]

I didn't mean to say that 14-dayers should get everything for free, but yet when you think about it, a 14-dayer (or even a paid newbie) doesn't have a whole lot to offer some 100/100/100 dragon for making lv20-40 scales, either.

Demanding money for your work from low level players is not really about you making a fortune. If you are honest you don't really need money in this game appart from buying a plot/lair.

It's more that the people you help will need to earn it, that's what you diskussed in this thread. There are people who don't like crafting. Why not demand some money from them, as you say like 5-10s (or even a little more for RoP things). That will keep them busy some time hunting mobs and selling everything they drop for money and in the end, they didn't craft that stuff you give them, but they have earned them nevertheless, cause the hunt still was some work to do.

10s is quite a thing to achieve in the levels from 10-20. And I think people should regularly to demand that from players.

[Sigi]

With the "new" quests (they are there for a while now) even for a new/low char 10s is easily earned.

[meepsa]

Yeah, earning coin really isn't that hard, I remember having near 100s when my newest hatchie hit 20.

[Chioxin]

I didn't mean to say that 14-dayers should get everything for free, but yet when you think about it, a 14-dayer (or even a paid newbie) doesn't have a whole lot to offer some 100/100/100 dragon for making lv20-40 scales, either.

So, expecting everyone to "pay up" doesn't really work, as there's not really much of an economy in Istaria, especially at the low end of the spectrum.

Well, when I mentioned it, it was a little more "off topic" honestly. Someone was upset that they were being asked to make all these high level scales for high level dragons, and having to spend time farming the materials for it. So I made that suggestion.

This would work perfectly fine for lower level players if there was a purpose for money, which there is not. That is the biggest of a few downfalls as far as I see it. There's nothing /really/ to spend your money on constantly that makes you feel good about spending it! But, this is probably a topic for a whole different thread... Not for this one... which is about RoP and ARoP.

--EDIT--

I just saw what Garfonso said about, and he's absolutely right about that! Which is how I feel about crafting. If I want things made, tell me what I can do for you!

[Thangorodrim Atanatari]

interesting to see so many old names still here;

a game that might appeal to some of you is Archeage Online

i know i am going to try it because of its extensive crafting, perhaps cancel all my other games for it, oh and dont let the korean-ness turn you off, currently all the news for the game is aimed at that market, westernization will happen at a later stage.

right now i play many games, but each resub of istaria for a month (you know good memories can spin illusions) had me play for at most an evening. aimlessly flying around as dragon seems to be the most interesting part of istaria, but even that could have been so much better if it would have evolved over time.

im sorry to say dhalin has it right here, right at the start of the thread.

about new players getting many stuff for free; its a sign of an mmo comming of age, many bored vets in it with more time then stuff to do, they tend to focus on noobs and spoil them with premium gear, that happens in any mmo, not just istaria, devs cathering to that is just a way to equalize it, otherwise some noobs get more spoiled then others, generally honey-voiced

[Venge]

I have done the RoP half a dozen times at least, the most recent one just a few months ago with a 50/60 dragon going Lunus. There were a great many parts that I could not solo. A lvl 30/30 dragon will not be able to solo any part of it at all. Actually most of fights I still needed help. When comparing it to the old ones there really actually is not much that is easier, you don't have to kill the mind lasher... thats kind of it. However it is much smoother, with one part easily transitioning to another. The shadow dragon is harder IMO. I remember making the head scale and being able to solo the shadow at 50/50 by run and gun. Not anymore at all. Of course there is no head scale now but he doesn't have the kill strike either. But the phylacter does less than 10,000 dmg despite what it says (was between 5 and 8000) and it wasn't instant and the shadow still does a ton of dmg. With 2 lvl 100 dragons helping, a high level biped healer and me spamming the phylactery it was still a 5-10 minute fight.

I was able to do the crystal golem myself, all the crafting, the runs to the peak of storms and pool of teeth and got darn lucky fighting the enslavers and soloed two of them, had help with the third one. The others I needed help with. So if the quest is easier, it isn't by much.

[LOVWYRM]

thy for your input Venge- if a vet like you say so its very reassuring.

We talked and discussed a lot in this thread- which I appreciate much- thank you all!!

But my original intention was to prevent, that dragons can start RoP/ARoP
without having played all quests (of their level/available) or within a time its impossible to lean about Istaria.
For the reasons I mentioned- they will leave soon after RoP/AroP.

And that vets get exploited, cause some are too lazy to find out things on their own-
not to talk about a new generation of dragons, who take it for granted that we make teched scales for them
not even willing or able to bring whats necessary (if they know about that at all )

[Dhalin]

thy for your input Venge- if a vet like you say so its very reassuring.

Venge also left out the fact that instead of wading through EPL/WPL, we go to NPL instead which is much more reasonable.

Sounds like the bosses are still a challenge (which is good!) without the absurdness of "RUN or DIE!!!" when you're trying to run past mobs you have zero chance of fighting at 50.

We talked and discussed a lot in this thread- which I appreciate much- thank you all!!

I'm always glad to talk even if my views aren't particularly well-liked. I almost never take offense, and sometimes I wish the mods weren't so quick to moderate threads. I'm glad they allowed us to talk in this one, and I'm glad it maintained the civility that it did.

But my original intention was to prevent, that dragons can start RoP/ARoP
without having played all quests (of their level/available) or within a time its impossible to lean about Istaria.
For the reasons I mentioned- they will leave soon after RoP/AroP.

The new 30-day minimum limit should help with that; we won't get any more freebies signing up just to see RoP and then quit a day or two later and never come back. No Sub = No RoP. People won't try RoP unless they're serious about actually playing the game, which means they won't bug the vets for help as much unless they've got at least some intention of sticking around (otherwise why would they pay a month's sub?)

I think the new rule will do wonders and I again thank the devs for it.

And that vets get exploited, cause some are too lazy to find out things on their own-
not to talk about a new generation of dragons, who take it for granted that we make teched scales for them
not even willing or able to bring whats necessary (if they know about that at all )

They need someone to *teach* them... the game itself doesn't tell you what you should be using to be effective, the game only offers a couple tutorials at New Tris, but beyond that... they never tell you that tech'd stuff is so absolutely essential to your survival, and unless you have the tech on you and scribed, you won't know what materials go into a tech without asking, yes, the vets.

The game IS getting better at helping new people learn (much better than it was since before VI took over), but we still got some distance to go yet...

Istaria wiki is a nice thing, but it is also outdated and incomplete in some areas, I've noticed unless I'm using the wrong one.

[dorrin]

a topic that has been near and dear to my heart since march 18th, 2004. at the time many of us expected a requirement of level 50 since the quests that were available at the time stopped after level 40. it seemed a natural progression, and at level 50 you are able to contribute quite a bit to the fights during the rite.

that has always been a concern to me - if it's your rite of passage, you need to be contributing, not having others do it for you. it's no longer YOUR rite of passage at that point, and doesn't serve the purpose of a rite of passage - that you prove that you are becoming a capable dragon.

the level 50 special scales are icing on the cake, and a good reason to stay the course before doing the rite, but i'm not sure it's common knowledge. maybe this is something karane should mention (if he doesn't already).

i also still think a craft requirement of level 30 is reasonable since you can't complete the rite 'til you're 30 anyway, even with transmutation scales (ignoring the fact that you need at least 40 for the helian route).

that said, i realise it won't happen. it's been discussed, many, many times. i just like to bring it up now and then because i'm a curmudgeon (to put it nicely).

regardless, thanks to the devs for introducing the 30-day "waiting period". at the very least, it will bring some much needed funds to istaria, even if the effect is that people start a character, wait 30 days, pay, THEN start begging for help at level 1 in NT. i hope i'm wrong, but i can see this happening. the incoming funds are what's important, though. keeping istaria alive.

recently on order a few of us in a small group of like-minded crotchety old fogeys have had the pleasure of being introduced to a new-ish player (actually returning from several years ago) who genuinely seems to want to learn. they're out there, even if their numbers are disappointingly small. those are the ones you help. actually got out of my lair to help him to abandoned isle... that's saying a lot. i don't move for much these days. *shrug* sad, but true.

[Kesqui]

i also still think a craft requirement of level 30 is reasonable since you can't complete the rite 'til you're 30 anyway, even with transmutation scales (ignoring the fact that you need at least 40 for the helian route).

Not quite true

It is completely possible - with the right equipment and assistance - to do the crafting required for a Lunus ascension at level 20 (well, 20+what you get doing the ROP quest) craft.
Kesqui's Guide to ROP for Lunus Who Hate Crafting

I must admit that I had rather hoped to get a couple of my friends into the game, help them get to the point where they could do ROP in the free trial period and HOPE that the lure of playing a flying dragon would get them to subscribe to stay and play longer... I can understand the reasoning for "no sub, no ROP, no pay, no fly" .... but at the same time, I know my friends, and flight early might have been the impetus to stay, rather than "oh, now I've done it, don't need to play any more."

[Indigo]

I'd like to add my 2 coppers to this convo from the perspective of at least one new player.

I just started a couple days ago & only reached lvl 8 so far, but I'd like to say how impressed I am with the Dev responsiveness. That makes a super first impression. I'm on the 14 day trial but only because I have to wait til the 3rd of next month to start the sub, being on a fixed income & all. I've done all my homework though and made my decision to stay.

I'm also very impressed with the crafting, housing (lairing?) , community in and out of the game, and the fact that I have to actually think a little (gasp) about what to do to complete a quest. The game isn't holding my hand and steering me every step of the way with bright arrows and lines and highlighted circles. And of course I'm loving the dragons.

On topic, as a newcomer not only do I have no problem with a subscription and 30 day requirement for flight, I applaud it. Not unreasonable at all, same as with housing.

Since I've decided that I'm here for the long-haul based on all I've seen so far, I look forward to taking my time and enjoying the journey. Seems like all the new games now are catering to the gimme-now, rush-to-endgame, epeen crowd. And that's just not for me.

Also, I can sympathize with the "elders" who are being put upon by the short-term people (see paragraph above). Being a do-it-yourself competionist, I have little sympathy for people who play a game and yet want others to do everything for them. Asking for, and receiving help is fine if you've at least attempted to do it. To my mind, giving lots of advice is helping more than catering to the gimme-stuff mentality. Or as someone else mentioned, require a payemnt. Granted you may not "need" 100 coppers, but it would require the new person to expend a little effort.

I know I'm an old stick-in-the-mud on a lot of stuff, but I prefer to do things for myself. Otherwise why even play? If I've tried and failed, asked for advice & tried to look things up & failed, then I might ask for help. And I would expect to at least make an attempt to compensate someone for their time.

(Also my most sincere apologies if I ninja'd anyone's in-game name for the boards. I tried to use Indigo on Chaos server and discovered it's taken. But I'd already put the name in for the boards. I hope it doesn't offend anyone.)