Training Points - Remove the Buy Back Point system

[Guaran]

I'm horrible about remembering to use training points. When I do, it would be nice if I could swap all of them around how I see fit. I do not think this should be a "remember to buff with training points" thing before every hunt, but after months of doing nothing with them, it seems like the limit should have worn off.

You can swap them around. The system already allows it.

..Also the current system highly punishes experimentation too. Nobody likes to experiment when they gotta wait several days to undo what they did...

Punishes? Seriously?

The only reason you can move tp's around, is to be able to FIX a mistake you might make. It is NOT so that you can tweak your skills every time you change schools. Pick a balance and leave it. They are not meant to be changed all the time.

[Frith-Rae]

Eh I would be against having a "purchase all TP point back" at a vendor anytime you wanted. I am totally against being able to switch them out in the field, per fight.

I can't argue any points around multiclassing - I've never been anything but a dragon.

But I do know our TP system is confusing as all Heck I'm sure for new players (even for old ones lol) as there is really no other system in a current game like it. There are similiar systems that are much less complex and do allow buybacks of points for money. But I agree, those aren't necessarily appropriate for Istaria.

But I think perhaps a compromise would be to earn back more points at a faster rate? So say instead of it taking 1-2 weeks to reallocate training points - perhaps it takes no longer than 3-5 days?

My main thought with this sort of compromise is that if you do spend points wrong, or say you are trying something out and learn real quick its full of fail (Or you are a new player and are not sure what all those TP points due for your multiclass abilities etc.); or you just want to experiment - you aren't forced to then keep something you messed up on for weeks at a time. Perhaps even so frustrated that you don't even want to go out adventuring until you can reassign.

I do think week(s) is just too long to have to wait before you can "fix" things. Some will always want the immediate; but surely 3-4 days is a good compromise between those camps and keeps the mechanic fitted to our game's playstyle - but still gives the idea of giving more freedom to those who wish to experiement (without feeling they'll be 'stuck').

And no - saying you're against it and never giving valid reasons why its a bad idea is not helpful nor really productive. POst it all you want; but if you want to stand up for something then stand up and explain *shrugs*

[Hoberton]

And no - saying you're against it and never giving valid reasons why its a bad idea is not helpful nor really productive. POst it all you want; but if you want to stand up for something then stand up and explain *shrugs*

Well, I'm against it... just because!!! (Standing up while posting this.)

[jerk-o]

I wouldn't mind if we got buy back points a little bit quicker and if we got enough buy back points for all of the training points available (1 buy back point for each training point you get)

[awdz]

You can swap them around. The system already allows it.

Not all of them at once. Only up to 300 at any given time.
If someone [who has not changed around training points in over a year] roleplays that their character takes a vastly different direction because of some defining event, why do they have to realign the training points piecemeal?

[Finkledbody]

If I make my font large enough, perhaps my opinion will count for more! >.>

Brought attention to it, didn't it?

Oh the burn..

Perhaps, if you were any smarter, you'd reconginize that 80% of a conversation is tone and facial expressions.. Since those are limited when typing, one must use whats availabe..

Font size, color, and use of punctuation tend to do this

So good job pointing out my ability to adapt and utilize whats available to me!
Sure I could try and act all smart on the internet through use of proper grammer and sentence structure; carefully laying out what i'm trying to say, in a clear and concise manner.. However, I just don't care.

Carry on

[LOVWYRM]

If I make my font large enough, perhaps my opinion will count for more! >.>

You do not need that Akrion

[Raptress]

I thought it was against the forum rules to do that sort of thing just to bring attention to your post... I know I've seen posts edited by moderators for it in the past.

On topic, I don't see much harm in simply allowing TPs to accumulate at the rate they currently do, but without the 300 limit. As Vortura says, all that really does is punish people who don't log in as much as others might be able to.

[starlight]

Punish players how so? i myself have no issues with the way the current system is setup with the training points and yes i have recently been playing around with half of the total TP i have so waiting the time for the points to come back i don;t mind it lets my curiosity run to wonder how good this trial will turn out

[Peylor]

Would it real matter if you could do a one a month buy back system. Realy? 99% of the time this is a solo game. So does it realy matter?

[Raptress]

Punish players how so?

At max level, the training point cap is 300, but that's not how many training points you have in total. In order to completely reallocate your points in the most efficient manner possible, you would need to make sure to log in and use your training points as soon as or before they cap out. If a player cannot log in often enough to do this, they will end up "wasting" any time between hitting the 300 cap and being able to log in and spend them all again. Thus, it will take that player longer to reallocate their points than another player that can log in every day and stay on top of the buyback points.

Would it real matter if you could do a one a month buy back system. Realy? 99% of the time this is a solo game. So does it realy matter?

In a way, yes. As soon as a game allows players to spend coin to reset their training points (or whatever equivilents), there is essentially no limit on reallocating those points. There is no permanence to the choices you make because you can just spend a little coin to reset it all again. The way Istaria does it (via time) makes your training point allocation an actual decision.

Depending on how much it cost, richer players could even abuse a money-based training-point reset. Shian touched on this in an earlier post. Going out for stone? Reset your TPs and spend them all on craft-boosting stats. Going adventuring after that? Reset your TPs again and spend them on your combat skills. Switching to Healer for an epic hunt? Reset your TPs again and max out your healing skills. The entire system of having to balance your point spending between crafting, adventuring, and even different classes is lost when players can reset training points at will.

[Krinharth]

I afree, that cup 300 - too low, but do not agree make changes absolutely free, in every time on any amount.
back for money? not sure, how it will works, so can't yell anything

[Peylor]

Would it real matter if you could do a one a month buy back system. Realy? 99% of the time this is a solo game. So does it realy matter?

like i said once a month......

[Seilan Moonside]

So cheating to the max, huh? How about no.
Seeing as combat and crafting are both heavily dependent on TP, there is a subtle grace about being able to balance out your TP so that you don't totally suck at one or the other.
Being able to change them at will is like putting an "I win" button in the game because you can instantly become very good at anything you choose: who needs spellcraft when you are working on stone at this very moment and can max out your skill by pumping every little TP in strength? Who needs combat skills when you are crafting and vice versa?

I enjoy the current system- it is currently very easy to do minor tweaks if you make a mistake, but difficult enough so that if you want to change your layout entirely, you have to wait a little while.

I'm part of this camp myself. Making a "reset by payment" option would feel like a trivialization of the current system, for me at least. Planning characters is something I've always liked to do, and being able to change them to be the most "optimum" for any situation would just seem a little... lame.

[Daulnay]

Has anyone here played Guild Wars? It allows you to completely respec your attribute points and skill selection when you're in a town, and even partially change your character class. When I started playing it, I was skeptical about how being able to completely respec at any time would feel. With your character being very plastic, wouldn't you feel less attached to it?

At least for me, that has a much weaker effect than I'd feared. And the freedom to try different things makes that game very engaging and feel very not-grindy.

Istaria is a different place. More than any other MMO, what you do permanently changes the game world. The malleability of Guild Wars would not feel right here, as much as I enjoy it. However, the TP system definitely frustrates some, me included.

Change two things:
1) Allow people to easily change a small number of skill points (maybe 24 or so?) automatically.

2) Put in a longish quest that can be done every several months, which awards a large number of TP points. If someone wants to make a major change in their character, it would be possible without having to dribble it over a couple months 300 at a time. The quest could reward TP points in 300 point chunks in the last couple stages, if taking out the 300 cap is too much trouble.

[Mensar]

It makes changing and tweaking an adventure school a very long and drawn out process.
Sometimes you even want the changes because you've switched from solo to group hunting.

Is there any reason why this system is needed?

For a total pool of 1200 TPs, you get a max of 300 BBP you can use at any one time.

Not sure how long it takes to build the stock of BBPs up again, but we're talking about a week to make a complete TP re-allocation... if you make daily adjustments as your BBP stock builds back up.

Possible choices could be:

Pay a trainer for those BBP to come back (like visiting the TP trainers that used to be in the gatehouse in Tazoon)
Increase the rate BBP accumulate
Get rid of the BBP system altogether and allocate TPs as you like, when you like.

Would make things easier for bipeds who, when they switch classes, need points in a whole different place usually.

I can see increasing the BBP rate as an idea that makes sense.

[Shian]

2) Put in a longish quest that can be done every several months, which awards a large number of TP points. If someone wants to make a major change in their character, it would be possible without having to dribble it over a couple months 300 at a time. The quest could reward TP points in 300 point chunks in the last couple stages, if taking out the 300 cap is too much trouble.

This would be cool. I can see the need for bipeds to change out their TP when they switch classes, so being able to plan for these kinds of chunks would be useful. They also have quite a great deal number of skills to pour points in than dragons do, so maybe even an increase in cap for them would not be too game breaking. I don't play my bipeds often enough so I'm not sure if there is also a 'subtle grace' I mentioned earlier where if you gain levels in some type of order, you do not feel crunched when having to move TPs and do it a little at a time as you move through each class.

I would be against such a thing for dragons though. The current TP seems very balanced to me. No one can change their TP to all combat or all crafting at will so easily. Not even going to bring up how borked dragon magic is, so it's not like there are many combat templates to try.