Blight Update 223 Comments

[AmonGwareth]

I'm sorry you all feel that we're somehow out to get you. After this many years and everything we add on a regular basis the continuity of that belief continues to surprise me.

First, let me reiterate and say that as we stated above existing tool claws won't be losing their 4 tech slots. Only NEW prototype claws will be getting 3 tech slots instead of 4.

Regarding this issue and the choice for Dragon Breath boost my thinking was as follows:

1) The claw is obtained in a quest for BREATH OF ACID. So it makes sense to tie it to the quest a bit.

2) If a dragon has the tool claw equipped while crafting and has to fight they'll get a boost to breath (in addition to whatever they have socketed).

3) The quest is not a quest for a tool claw, but rather for a breath attack. So, the tool claw should not be the be-all end-all of claws.

You are welcome to disagree, and I'm sure many will. I'm firmly against boosting base stats since you can get a regular tool claw with those stats if you wish, but I did wish to differentiate it from a regular Tier 6 tool claw (which btw will be making its appearance in this update as well).

[Merrik]

i must take responsibility for this whole discussion, because it was I, who originally asked if they were going to add essence harvesting 1000 as a requirement for this claw. not knowing it was going to blown so far out as it now has. which if the claw stays, it still needs the essence harvesting requirement.

you won't add a stat, but you are willing to add a boost to a dragon fighting ability.

ok, a fighting ability on a tool is as useful as adding quarry to a sword.

if you insist that a fighting ability needs to be on this then switch it to a fighting claw. and allow older players to aquire it. as a fighting claw with dragons breath + 3 sockets would be more on the fair and correct side of things.

now, as far as opening my mouth about anything else in the game... i think i'm done. the claw with 4 sockets was fine the way it was. it was not unbalancing anything. only saving some dragon vault space and backpack room with a few less tool claws needed.

the claw doesn't add ability for a dragon to gain benefit related to their ratio on making any resource.

[Mimir]

I feel a portion of that responsibility as well. I discussed it with Merrik (as I assumed the way to keep tickets to a minimum). And when I entered the discussion I was told it was not a bug and my post was deleted.

[Northwind]

I'm sorry you all feel that we're somehow out to get you. After this many years and everything we add on a regular basis the continuity of that belief continues to surprise me.

We don't get this feeling out of thin air, Amon.
Is it you guys that see "bugs" when anyone is asking for anything that it will benefit a dragon - see the request to add essence harvesting requirement to the Prototype Tool Claw and the "bug" regarding the tool claws not having a skill cap - i hope you don't actually plan to fix that too...

First, let me reiterate and say that as we stated above existing tool claws won't be losing their 4 tech slots. Only NEW prototype claws will be getting 3 tech slots instead of 4.

Regarding this issue and the choice for Dragon Breath boost my thinking was as follows:

1) The claw is obtained in a quest for BREATH OF ACID. So it makes sense to tie it to the quest a bit.

2) If a dragon has the tool claw equipped while crafting and has to fight they'll get a boost to breath (in addition to whatever they have socketed).

Again, it puzzles me why all this effort to fix something that requires no fixing at all??? But if you guys are totally decided to "fix" the Prototype, then:

1) you may as well delete it since no one that is making the effort to craft a set of crafting scales (1000 mining/quarry skill required to wear the Prototype, ouch!) will actually use it for the 3 sockets it will provide.
We CAN use the regular T5 claws since they also have 3 sockets with lower requirements and no one sane will fight Tibur with a tool claw equipped - even if it has +50 dragon breath

Or 2) you can make the Prototype an improved T5, with 800 skill requirements to wear, 3 sockets and a random bonus to make it special and better than a regular T5 tool claw (yes, even +50 breath will do if you insist).
It will be an oddity yes, but I guess no one will mind that, IF you actually get in game the real T6 tool claw with 4 sockets - or more, why not?

or even 3) as Merrick proposed: Make it a T6 fighting claw with +50 breath and 3 sockets and replace it in everyone's inventories that did the Acid Breath quest

3) The quest is not a quest for a tool claw, but rather for a breath attack. So, the tool claw should not be the be-all end-all of claws.

No it is not a quest for a tool claw, but the Prototype was a really nice Easter Egg out of this quest and it actually IS "the be-all end-all of claws" - at least till you introduce the real craftable T6 adamantium tool claw with 4 sockets.

[Akrion]

Amon - What about the suposed bug of tool claws not having a skill cap?

[Thicklesip]

You know, I think I wondered once about the lack of cap on dragon-tools because I'd assumed they were a code-carbon-copy of biped tools, but then the thought flitted rapidly away. Hrm. I am absolutely loathe to drag out this ridiculousness, but now that I'm thinking of it: what's the point of tool skill caps anyways? Is it just meant to keep cheapskates (like me) from grabbing the training version and using that until craft level 100 if we're too lazy to buy/make teched tools?

(which btw will be making its appearance in this update as well).

That's practically a magic trick, sneaking that point in at the end of the paragraph. *laughs*

Concerning the plot resizing and repricing: taking in the new lay of the land on Blight has been a blast, I'm very excited for some of these community reconfigurations and giving serious thought to adding a subscription to snag one of these new beauties. So a million-thousand thank yous for this!

Secondly, the plots revamp has gotten me curious about your aims with "fixing" communities. Was the aim to make many communities attractive, or do you plan/hope to eventually make all of them attractive for someone? Either way I consider the changes made VERY good. Again, thank you! (I'm gonna get a little postage stamp over in mmhm and I'm gonna have a pond and a gazebo and some hedges and ANOTHER pond and....)

[Peaches]

I am sorry, the sarcasm statement got lost on me. I wasnt trying to cause any problems here, was simply trying to understand.


I dont care that I dont get the best tool for my dragon. I will settle with what the devs are offering us.


/sarcasm off?

[AmonGwareth]

what's the point of tool skill caps anyways? Is it just meant to keep cheapskates (like me) from grabbing the training version and using that until craft level 100 if we're too lazy to buy/make teched tools?

Exactly. A mechanism to force players to use higher tier tools.

That's practically a magic trick, sneaking that point in at the end of the paragraph. *laughs*

You like that?

We're discussing the tool claw further, just a heads up, based upon your feedback.

i must take responsibility for this whole discussion, because it was I, who originally asked if they were going to add essence harvesting 1000 as a requirement for this claw. not knowing it was going to blown so far out as it now has. which if the claw stays, it still needs the essence harvesting requirement.

I didn't and still don't understand your reasoning for that to be honest. Both Lairshaper and Dragon Crafter get Mining/Quarrying and at the same rate per level.

[meepsa]

just a quick reply here, but I agree that adding dragon breath, although kinda related to the quest, doesn't make a lot of sense to me, so I took a quick look at the description, seeing as it states it should be able to hold Brachina Beetle Acid, perhaps adding armor instead of dragon breath would make a bit more sense?

[Knossos]

I didn't and still don't understand your reasoning for that to be honest. Both Lairshaper and Dragon Crafter get Mining/Quarrying and at the same rate per level.

If the Mining or Quarry (or, if added, Essense Harvesting) skill stay at 1000 minimum, a dragon will need teched scales to reach any of these. Thus if changing Scale sets is to be avoided, or the need to do so reduced, it makes sense to allow Essence Harvesting as a qualifier to equip the Tool Claw.

Knossos

[Guaran]

...Also it is worth mentioning that NOT a single dragon tool claw has an upper limit - the only incentive to use the T5 claw instead of T1 is because the number of sockets it provides.

Thanks for bringing that up since that is a bug that nobody has ever reported. This will get fixed.

Northwind, you are mistaken in that the claws should have a skill cap (along the lines of biped tools). The "Tool Claw" isn't really a "tool". The ONLY thing the claws are for is for tech slots/crystal sockets. The Dragon's "Tool", is an Ability, magical in nature. The Claw slot was added so that Dragons could finally use some of the weapon crystals that bipeds had all along, especially the nicer ones like the Pulsing and Sugent stones. I'm pretty sure it was me who campaigned to have a claw slot added, and the sole reason was for sockets. It made sense to also allow techs (such as T&C V). They were then later expanded into a tool claw, to allow Crafting techs to be added as well, as it was neigh impossible to get optimal on Crystalshaping for t6 without a +20 tech. Originally the tool socket was allowed on the regular "weapon" claws, but they couldnt be equipped because something about how they work on the backend made the system think no one met the requirements to use them. So they had to add the tool claw. Again, this is solely for tech slots and socket slots.

It isn't really a tool, and it should NOT be capping skill levels.

Edit: Reading through the rest of the thread, it appears others already stated what I did above.

[Guaran]

...First, let me reiterate and say that as we stated above existing tool claws won't be losing their 4 tech slots. Only NEW prototype claws will be getting 3 tech slots instead of 4.

Regarding this issue and the choice for Dragon Breath boost my thinking was as follows:

1) The claw is obtained in a quest for BREATH OF ACID. So it makes sense to tie it to the quest a bit.

2) If a dragon has the tool claw equipped while crafting and has to fight they'll get a boost to breath (in addition to whatever they have socketed).

3) The quest is not a quest for a tool claw, but rather for a breath attack. So, the tool claw should not be the be-all end-all of claws.

You are welcome to disagree, and I'm sure many will. I'm firmly against boosting base stats since you can get a regular tool claw with those stats if you wish, but I did wish to differentiate it from a regular Tier 6 tool claw (which btw will be making its appearance in this update as well).

I don't see anything wrong with adding Dragon breath to it.

Reasons to do so: Takes up a tech slot, yet still leaves 3 for the sockets.

I think the arguments about the socket slots are really a bit weak. It's one extra socket, not really a big deal (either way). And you likely still would need another tool claw anyway. So arguing that existing people get to keep it but new people dont. I say big deal. I myself don't have a 4 socket claw, because playing around I put rune of flame on it ages ago. But letting others keep it isn't some game breaking advantage for them, and I'm not going to cry about it.

Dev's fixing it, but adding Dragon breath. It's better than nothing, and they are leaving the claw in as part of the quest. It's a good compromise.

They are talking about a t6 tool claw. But I'm wondering what the point will be? What's going to differentiate it from the t5 tool claw? Some built-in base stats or something? +6 Velocity, +6 Mining, +6 Essence Harvesting, +6 Quarrying? Sorta like a Blessing tech, but not taking up a tech slot. Can use the item template from the prototype tool claw, and pre-add the 4th blessing-type tech. Still leaves the 3 regular tech slots. But don't go putting skill caps on it. The t6 items are all supposed to be uncapped anyway (even biped tools). And as I explained in the previous post, the lower tier tool claws really shouldn't have caps either.

[Knossos]

They are talking about a t6 tool claw. But I'm wondering what the point will be? What's going to differentiate it from the t5 tool claw? Some built-in base stats or something? +6 Velocity, +6 Mining, +6 Essence Harvesting, +6 Quarrying? Sorta like a Blessing tech, but not taking up a tech slot. Can use the item template from the prototype tool claw, and pre-add the 4th blessing-type tech. Still leaves the 3 regular tech slots. But don't go putting skill caps on it. The t6 items are all supposed to be uncapped anyway (even biped tools). And as I explained in the previous post, the lower tier tool claws really shouldn't have caps either.

So long as any added skill/stat techs do not prevent socketing of Cogs by "stacking prohibitions".

Knossos

[Merrik]

I didn't and still don't understand your reasoning for that to be honest. Both Lairshaper and Dragon Crafter get Mining/Quarrying and at the same rate per level.

my original request was for essence harvesting 1000, be added to the claw, just as mining and quarry were placed as a requirement to be able to equip it. it had nothing to do with this removal of the claw, or the socket. it was due to the fact that the tool was equipable bny means of only 2 out of the 3 gathering skills a dragon recieves. the claw requires 1000 mining or 1000 quarry to equip it, but did not pertain to essence harvesting. so if you were gathering metal, you would have on mining scales hence giving you 1000 mining to be able to use the claw.

now with essence harvesting you couldn't equip the tool claw if your set of scales for essence harvesting did not contain mining or quarry techs on it. as a dragon can only have 1000 skill if he has the scales equipped first.

this was the basis for my original question of "are you going to fix the claw by adding essence harvesting 1000 as a requirement for equipping the tool claw"

so in essence: tool claw requirements to equip: lvl 100 craft / mining 1000 / quarry 1000

mining / smelting / scalecraft scales grant the ability to equip the claw
quarry / stoneworking / spellcraft scales allowed you to equip the claw

essence harvesting / shaping / crystal or lairshaping scales would "not" allow you to equip the claw, because there's no place to add mining or quarry that the claw required, to be able to reach 1000

so i asked for essence harvesting 1000 be added as a requirement to be able to equip it
now with essence harvesting explained. you can review my original post with more understanding:

http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...&postcount=34e

[Raptress]

To be fair, the fact that it requires mining or quarrying only is actually a feature (bug?) on all tool claws, not just the Prototype Tool Claw. So, the behavior of the Prototype Tool Claw will likely be determined by whether that requirement is as intended on the other, normal tool claws.

[Solan]

I'm sorry you all feel that we're somehow out to get you. After this many years and everything we add on a regular basis the continuity of that belief continues to surprise me.

I don't think the real issue is what is done overall, but what is refused to be done. Going around removing/nerfing items, then bribing existing player who already have said item by not taking it away from them... What kind of balancing is this? And don't get me wrong, I understand that it's not easy. It's a lose-lose situation, either you accept that you designed yourself into a corner for that aspect or take a whole lot of flak for the change. But this 'bartering', in the long run, does nothing but instill distrust and frustration to anyone who'd care to create a new character. Not to mention the general paranoia or disdain to report anything that could be slightly beneficial.

That feeling didn't just appear out of thin air. These indecisive fixes leave nothing but rifts within the community, and I'm rather surprised that you get surprised when something negative from it belches up from it as a result. I'm sorry that there was no easy way to say all of this , but it's starting to be painful to watch from the outside and I doubt it will get better with time unless things change.

If anyone truly cares for balance, then why are we worried about an extra socket when something like this is allowed to exist?:





Is this really a fix? Is this balance?

Fix the real issues, and fix them well. Yes, we'll rage on it at first, but in the long run, it's the best for both the game and the community. Maybe you'll see a little faith from your players once the real problems start to be solved.

And to the community, wouldn't this be better than sitting in our little corner with all our secrets while everyone wallows in their enmity over trinkets? Maybe the Devs could make an informed decision if you all didn't hide every undocumented 'feature', no?

[Merrik]

To be fair, the fact that it requires mining or quarrying only is actually a feature (bug?) on all tool claws, not just the Prototype Tool Claw. So, the behavior of the Prototype Tool Claw will likely be determined by whether that requirement is as intended on the other, normal tool claws.

but the point being is, there are 3 gathering classes for a dragon, not just 2, i only noticed it on the prototype, since i could not equip it with my current scales on. once i checked the requirements is when i made a post about it.

fix them all, the point was it was missing one vital gathering aspect. essence harvesting

[Mensar]

I don't think the real issue is what is done overall, but what is refused to be done. Going around removing/nerfing items, then bribing existing player who already have said item by not taking it away from them... What kind of balancing is this? And don't get me wrong, I understand that it's not easy. It's a lose-lose situation, either you accept that you designed yourself into a corner for that aspect or take a whole lot of flak for the change. But this 'bartering', in the long run, does nothing but instill distrust and frustration to anyone who'd care to create a new character. Not to mention the general paranoia or disdain to report anything that could be slightly beneficial.

That feeling didn't just appear out of thin air. These indecisive fixes leave nothing but rifts within the community, and I'm rather surprised that you get surprised when something negative from it belches up from it as a result. I'm sorry that there was no easy way to say all of this , but it's starting to be painful to watch from the outside and I doubt it will get better with time unless things change.

If anyone truly cares for balance, then why are we worried about an extra socket when something like this is allowed to exist?:





Is this really a fix? Is this balance?

Fix the real issues, and fix them well. Yes, we'll rage on it at first, but in the long run, it's the best for both the game and the community. Maybe you'll see a little faith from your players once the real problems start to be solved.

And to the community, wouldn't this be better than sitting in our little corner with all our secrets while everyone wallows in their enmity over trinkets? Maybe the Devs could make an informed decision if you all didn't hide every undocumented 'feature', no?

It doesn't exist.. It's a glitch I ticketed myself years ago where you could put a socket into a claw and pull it out and the residual ghost image of the crystal remained.

Not useable, not applicable.. and for someone lobbying against creating rifts, lying about an item that doesn't exist... isn't helping your case.

Edit: Sorry, this item exists by essence of the fact that you can screenshot it (or did waaayyy back in the day) but it doesn't exist as an object or you'd have the whole claw represented to show who made it

[Guaran]

my original request was for essence harvesting 1000, be added to the claw, just as mining and quarry were placed as a requirement to be able to equip it. it had nothing to do with this removal of the claw, or the socket. it was due to the fact that the tool was equipable bny means of only 2 out of the 3 gathering skills a dragon recieves. the claw requires 1000 mining or 1000 quarry to equip it, but did not pertain to essence harvesting. so if you were gathering metal, you would have on mining scales hence giving you 1000 mining to be able to use the claw.
...

There's no point in having a skill requirement on a claw. Only a level requirement is needed.

[Merrik]

There's no point in having a skill requirement on a claw. Only a level requirement is needed.

i didn't design them, the devs added 2 out of 3 gathering requirements to the claw. i only asked that the 3rd be added.

in the process, it's what fueled this whole debate on the claws being removed and or changed. the only claw that prevents essence harvesting is the prototype, because you can't lvl past 100, and dragons only get 7 points per lvl for the class. so, if you want to make full use of the prototype, then it needs to have essence harvesting added as a requirement.

all claws should have all 3 gathering requirements on them, if they are going to have even 1. since dragons get 3 classes to harvest and only 2 are required for the claw, the prototype can not be used for gathering essence. unless you add quarry or mining to your essence scale set, and who wants to do that? when you could put it to better use with lairshaping for example