Talk to the Team: Techniques

[Arzel Rashemi]

It could be argued either way actually. It could reduce as you suggest or it could increase as players would be able to buy specific tech kits from players. Or you might also be able to stock consigners with tech kits and actually see a small economy again.

It could be, but the logic doesn't support an increase. Taking a look at similar changes in the past supports the outcome of it being reduced rather than increased. Confectioner, alchemist, scholar, and tinker schools have had changes made to them in the past, all of which should have supported and helped Istaria see an increase in player interactions and economy. Although they were all great changes and content additions, a boost to the economy in game is something that never happened and the economy is still broken.

Past threads on the subject of a working economy in game are all over these forums and have lead to the same answer. There is no way to fix the economy of the game and how it works (or doesn't) unless the crafting and vendor systems are completely rewritten or redesigned.

Moving on to address and further expand on player to player interactions. Player to player interactions do not occur with consigners and vendors. With techniques added on at the time of item creation there is far more interaction that goes on then there would be with a system of mass produced tech-kits which would get stocked on a consigner/vendor for cheap, just as potions, dye-kits, scrolls, and confectioner items already are.

At present, if a player wants an item with techniques on it, then they must ask a crafter who has the techs they want to make it for them. The player must describe the weapon/armour/jewelry item that they want made and what techs they want on it to the crafter. The crafter will most likely let the player know what tech components are needed and how many, and the player will have to fetch those. Once the comps are gotten, the crafter then has to assemble the item for the player, so they have to meet with each other. The item is then made and payment if required is exchanged along with the finished item. That is quite a fair amount of player to player interaction for an item that has techniques on it.

With a tech-kit the crafter would be able to mass produce them and place them on a consigner or vendor for sale. Tech-kits would be just another line of mass-stock consigned goods, handled in the way in which potions, dye-kits, scrolls, and confectioner goods already are in game. The only interaction made player to player would be for a player to ask and be told by the crafter (or another player) to go see the consigner or vendor, (or to aid the crafter in noting that their stock on the connie was low and would have to be replenished.)

All of the above when taken together shows that there is little to no chance for any increase in interaction, and if anything it shows that a decrease is the most likely outcome.

Just sounds like way too much work without much real return on investment for the players. I'd much rather amon (or whoever would be doing the work) worked on say some new epic quests for new epic spells like Banshee, Fury of the Power Demon, etc. New story/lore.

Don't know how I missed this, but I fully agree with it. I would rather see this.

[Guaran]

Without getting too offtopic, as far as the economy goes, it's not completely broken (on Chaos, New Trismus routinely has 2500 items listed). However the "craft it for free" might have some blame as to why there just isn't an economy. And of course the player population affects it too. I know Order likes to be friendly and give everything away in a sense.. We are all friends. But on Chaos, I charge for everything except tier 1 for new players (I might list something for a few hundred cp just to get it on connie). But the rest I charge for. I craft Thundercloud V, fully teched, and list it for 2 to 2.2g depending on the techs applied, and have sold at least 40 like that. I sell pv scales for 1g. Unrelenting winds V with primal flash for 129s. Everything sells. And it might seem "expensive" and for me it isn't about the money really (although the time spent gathering comps directly affects the prices I charge). It's about the time spent to produce the item. But I learned long ago that doing everything for a guildie can backfire. They get to 100, need to go work on gathering comps to get their t5 gear, no one else does it for them, they quit.

As mentioned above, it's a fair amount of work getting a set of gear made. What techs can I get on my rings? Greaves? It's a mix of what can and cannot apply. With kits, newbies will be buying Spirit I tech and trying to apply it to everything, but it will not go on greaves. A crafter actually helps steer them through that process of "what techs would be best on this piece?" Remove the interaction and something meant to make it easier, will just add to the confusion, at least for new players.

On the flip-side, since a tech kit would require the comps to craft, and comp hunting takes time (my overarching factor in cost), they would sell for decent coin. Or players would just ask if someone could craft the tech kits... Thinking about the existing in game tech kits like Battleforged, rarely do I see those for sale. That's a good litmus test to see if making all the techs into kits would really accomplish much in the market. Dev's go to all the trouble to make these new forms, and no one bothers... the time that needs spent gathering comps to list kits for sale quickly becomes a chore that someone just decides to let someone else worry about. Before you know it no one is bothering. It's back to the "go get the comps and then I will craft it" scenario...

[Chasing]

Without getting too offtopic, as far as the economy goes, it's not completely broken (on Chaos, New Trismus routinely has 2500 items listed). However the "craft it for free" might have some blame as to why there just isn't an economy. And of course the player population affects it too.

Items in demand (consumables) are selling on the Chaos NT connie (potions, formulas, crystals (not T5), scrolls, food, techniques, kits).

Armor/Weapons/Tools/Spells are rarely sold as 'teched' on the connie (my assumption here is everyone's requirements for techs differ so one teched combo doesn't satisfy all). The demand for unteched versions isn't really there as once players understand the technique system, they don't want to buy unteched.

However if they could buy an unteched item, and then purchase kits to apply (sale1 for an unteched item, sale2 for a kit, sale3 for a kit, sale4 for a kit) we have a market for the unteched products and the kits.

From my point of view, allowing more tech kits will create a demand for products that don't currently sell very well via the consigners.

It could be, but the logic doesn't support an increase. Taking a look at similar changes in the past supports the outcome of it being reduced rather than increased. Confectioner, alchemist, scholar, and tinker schools have had changes made to them in the past, all of which should have supported and helped Istaria see an increase in player interactions and economy. Although they were all great changes and content additions, a boost to the economy in game is something that never happened and the economy is still broken.

Using a consigner is still a form of player interaction (albeit via proxy as supply). I generate a lot more sales when I am offline than when I am online (would prefer to not have to goto work or have to sleep but....). However its a matter of how you choose to sell your wares/services.

As a snapshot; (this is including money spent on connie fees)
If I look at Custard's coin he has made around 4g in consigner sales from NT since last weekend selling T1-T5.
Chasing has made about 15g from the Clearport connie selling high value items over same period of time.

Only downside with the connies at the moment is that some of the trade filters don't work, and the free account players are severely capped in how many stacks they can list.

[Calyndrell]

As mentioned above, it's a fair amount of work getting a set of gear made. What techs can I get on my rings? Greaves? It's a mix of what can and cannot apply. With kits, newbies will be buying Spirit I tech and trying to apply it to everything, but it will not go on greaves. A crafter actually helps steer them through that process of "what techs would be best on this piece?" Remove the interaction and something meant to make it easier, will just add to the confusion, at least for new players.

Yep. And thats just ANOTHER reason why I am against tech kits.. Unless your going to have some riduclously long list for "Can be applied to...." but then won't we also need one for "Conflicts with" I am a old player and a reasonably capable crafter and even with a GMC crafters help making my tier V crafting gear was still a head ache. For a new player your gonna make them give themselves a lobotomy.

Using a consigner is still a form of player interaction (albeit via proxy as supply). I generate a lot more sales when I am offline than when I am online (would prefer to not have to goto work or have to sleep but....). However its a matter of how you choose to sell your wares/services.

Yes It is a form of player interaction... interaction with an NPC that is. it is not Player to player.. Consigners are an NPC facility for players to sell gumpf and garbage.