Talk to the Team: Techniques

[AmonGwareth]

Should techniques all be modified to be tech kits? And if so, should the formulas drop as loot instead and require tech components? What school(s) should be able to make the techs? Should it be tied to the type of tech or to a specific school? For example, weapon techs for WEaponcrafter, spell techs for Spellcrafter, etc or should it be Enchanter or something similar?

[Terao]

As a personal feeling I would say no to this, but maybe I'm too used how it's now. If this will be added I'd suggest, give this to dragons, bipeds are able to craft such lot of things. Why not adding another special to the dragons, could add this to the crystalshaper school. The crystal is the container with the magic powress that could be released onto items. For crafting the tech components (same as now), essence and azulyte crystals could be components. If it should be both, then spellcrafting ability (Dragon Crafter and Spellcrafter for bipeds) seems to be a good choice.

[Arzel Rashemi]

Should techniques all be modified to be tech kits?

It is an inventive idea Amon, but there are a few issues that need to be ironed out or addressed. Some of which I don't think can be, and unless they are I'll have to disagree and say no.

Following reasons at present that I can't support all techs being tech-kits:

-It would defeat the purpose of players working crafting schools and mastering them. What would be the point of getting 100 in armourcraft for example? You wouldn't need 100. At about 85 a player could make everything earlier and tech it with everything they wanted by using tech-kits. It takes away from the difficulty in adding a tech on during the crafting process, thus removing any need to master any craft to 100.

-By having the tech-kits available for sale on connies and vendors it would further damage or destroy community interaction, which is something that defines a game as an mmo. I understand not every player is a fan of crafting, and that is alright. However all the player needs to do is interact with others and ask around in chat to get that item made for them with the techs they want. This is an mmo afterall, not a single player game. In every mmo that I have played, if you don't want to put forth the risk/time investment for the reward then you must interact with others for it. (in most cases both.)

-Tech kits would cause further issues with item-stack.

-Tech kits for all scribed techs in game would make it too easy for players and defeat the idea of time/effort/risk vs. reward. As we know from previous discussions on the forums, a lack of risk/time investment vs. reward is not a good way to retain players.

-At present, yes you can buy the tech forms off the vendors and connie, but in that case you are still working your crafting to make the item yourself and having to pay the silver or gold you earned for it, so it fits the idea of risk/time investement vs reward.

I don't mind tech kits if they are not craftable and are special rewards that are only gained through a quest or earned by the daily quests as we have them now (i.e volcano, mental bane, etc.) You can't craft those. They fit the risk/time investment vs reward model.

[Guaran]

It is an inventive idea Amon, but there are a few issues that need to be ironed out or addressed. Some of which I don't think can be, and unless they are I'll have to disagree and say no.

Following reasons at present that I can't support all techs being tech-kits:

-It would defeat the purpose of players working crafting schools and mastering them. What would be the point of getting 100 in armourcraft for example? You wouldn't need 100. At about 85 a player could make everything earlier and tech it with everything they wanted by using tech-kits. It takes away from the difficulty in adding a tech on during the crafting process, thus removing any need to master any craft to 100.

-By having the tech-kits available for sale on connies and vendors it would further damage or destroy community interaction, which is something that defines a game as an mmo. I understand not every player is a fan of crafting, and that is alright. However all the player needs to do is interact with others and ask around in chat to get that item made for them with the techs they want. This is an mmo afterall, not a single player game. In every mmo that I have played, if you don't want to put forth the risk/time investment for the reward then you must interact with others for it. (in most cases both.)

-Tech kits would cause further issues with item-stack.

I don't mind tech kits if they are not craftable and are special rewards that are only gained through a quest or earned by the daily quests as we have them now (i.e volcano, mental bane, etc.) You can't craft those. They fit the risk/time investment vs reward model.

Pretty much agree with all of this.

Not only the stacks used issues (more stuff needing more storage space), but the formula/knowledge book limits as well. My GMC has had to delete some beginner blighted gear formulas, since I am at the formula limit (whatever it is). The occasional tech kit that is craftable is one thing. But I wouldn't want a deluge of them.

It seems to represent too much convenience as Arzel mentioned. No interaction, just ready-to-apply techs for everything, plus blank scales/armor/spells all listed on the connies..

And I would want to retain the ability to apply techs at creation as well. Just sounds like way too much work without much real return on investment for the players. I'd much rather amon (or whoever would be doing the work) worked on say some new epic quests for new epic spells like Banshee, Fury of the Power Demon, etc. New story/lore.

Other side issue that would arise is techs that should or should not stack, getting overwritten, issues along those lines.

I must vote: no thanks.

[Guaran]

I thought a bit more about this, and there might be a way to allieviate some of the above concerns.

I think most of us' first impressions, were that we would have to find 200+ some odd new formulas, one for each technique kit. This is a no-go for me. Formula book already can be a bit slow to load on the GMC. Even if the knowledge book limit was increased by however many forms.

The other concern I had but didn't mention already, was that before, you needed to find or buy say "Tooth&claw V" to be able to tech that onto anything. Now we would just need the correct form?

Instead of all separate forms, how about a single new formula simply called "Tech Kit"

This would bring up the item creation window. It would have 1 available tech slot. All techs scribed by the player, would be applicaable to the generic tech-kit item. Let's say I wanted to make a tech kit for Tooth & Claw V. I have that tech in my knowledge book, I could bring up the tech kit formula, scroll through all of the techs listed and select Tooth&Claw V, apply it to the kit. The kit has some resources of its own, maybe a few Mithril bars or something, the tech itself would require the comps needed plus 4 shining orbs. I craft the item, and it makes a tech kit which is a drag-to-apply version of tooth&claw V. To be able to create this tech kit, the player has to already know the tech they want to make a kit for. Could work for all statistic, adventure, defense, spell, craft techs, etc. If needed, I suppose it could be broken out into 5 or so formulas/categories, for each of the above. So it would be "Spell tech kit: Accuracy V", or "Craft tech kit: Mining V" for example.

If the above is possible, I might be swayed to think this could be implemented with minimized impact and dev work. If the above is not possible, I will say let's just skip it. (I am not sure the item can be made to pass the tech on or not, or that it will be able to check keyword conflicts, or will be able to not apply to a piece of gear that it should not apply to, like 2 hand slash on earrings, etc.)

[Dracillion]

Tech Kits could work in same fashion dyes do.

Require extra comps to make. You are spending more for the convenience.

Don't really see the disadvantage of this for those who leveled to 100. Crafting is ridiculously easy and requires 0 trophies.

[Calyndrell]

The other concern I had but didn't mention already, was that before, you needed to find or buy say "Tooth&claw V" to be able to tech that onto anything. Now we would just need the correct form?

Instead of all separate forms, how about a single new formula simply called "Tech Kit"

This would bring up the item creation window. It would have 1 available tech slot. All techs scribed by the player, would be applicaable to the generic tech-kit item. Let's say I wanted to make a tech kit for Tooth & Claw V. I have that tech in my knowledge book, I could bring up the tech kit formula, scroll through all of the techs listed and select Tooth&Claw V, apply it to the kit. The kit has some resources of its own, maybe a few Mithril bars or something, the tech itself would require the comps needed plus 4 shining orbs. I craft the item, and it makes a tech kit which is a drag-to-apply version of tooth&claw V. To be able to create this tech kit, the player has to already know the tech they want to make a kit for. Could work for all statistic, adventure, defense, spell, craft techs, etc. If needed, I suppose it could be broken out into 5 or so formulas/categories, for each of the above. So it would be "Spell tech kit: Accuracy V", or "Craft tech kit: Mining V" for example.

If the above is possible, I might be swayed to think this could be implemented with minimized impact and dev work. If the above is not possible, I will say let's just skip it. (I am not sure the item can be made to pass the tech on or not, or that it will be able to check keyword conflicts, or will be able to not apply to a piece of gear that it should not apply to, like 2 hand slash on earrings, etc.)

I agree to all of this however I have one further concern. Won't making all techs into kits pretty much render the requirement to reach 100 in any given craft redundant (mainly thinking about armourer and weaponsmith possibly fletcher). the way items are currently crafted without teching them you could make everything you want as a blacksmith or outfitter. because as you apply techs to armour the skill required increases if your using tech kits would this still be the case? If not then the skill required for all armour will have to be amended to make it that extra bit more difficult.

Also Personally i feel that perhaps the enchanter school is lack luster. Would it be possible to perhaps create a few special kits that add temp bonuses to weapons.. perhaps increasing damage to certain foes.. or something else not covered by alch or scrolls?

And finally would it also be possible to make a tech scrub kit.. removes all techs from armour. I was thinking this might be useful if we want to respec or ceremonial shields/chest scales?

[Chasing]

Should techniques all be modified to be tech kits? And if so, should the formulas drop as loot instead and require tech components? What school(s) should be able to make the techs? Should it be tied to the type of tech or to a specific school? For example, weapon techs for WEaponcrafter, spell techs for Spellcrafter, etc or should it be Enchanter or something similar?

I would allow both methods;

• Normal crafting and add techniques at time of creation
• Creation of tech kit via a lootable formula

Trade off would be that the technique kits would require more of a tech comp + something else to make the kit (would also make them in the upper skill set of each tier)

Therefore can satisfy current method of crafting and also add in new technique kits over time (don't have to add every kit combination straight away).


I would link them to the most relevant skill? so might be some crossovers with schools (IE smelting). If there isn't a relevant skill then closest match school [as suggested above]

[AmonGwareth]

The one drawback to this change would be that Techniques would be draggable when looted. Meaning, looted techs would have to remain as-is and not be tech kits unless they no longer dropped as techs and instead dropped as tech-kit-formulas.

I do wish to clarify that I am not set on making this change nor have I done much research into it. I simply posed the question for brainstorming.

[Tathar]

I like the idea as an optional thing, since it would allow crafters to offer more a la carte options for goods. However, I'd like to see more reason to use the less-popular techs, since right now, spell damage and accuracy are essential for every spell.

As for which school should be able to craft them, I'd like to suggest something that hasn't been tried before in Istaria, but is an essential part of any healthy game economy. I believe that we need a system where each craft school needs to rely on other related schools to get the most benefit, and especially needs to utilize certain things that can't be obtained through that craft school alone. Istaria has next to no reason for different crafting schools to trade with each other. Techs would be a good start.

I'd actually like to suggest a hybrid of the two options you suggested here. Make the crafting of the tech kits themselves tied to the appropriate specialist crafting school. However, make them require purified essence orbs (and more than just 4 of them, please) to craft, which can only be made by Enchanters.

[Tilithia]

How about leave existing ones as they are and make new ones come as tech kit and technique? =) (like future Evasion and Magic Evasion techs)

[Krinharth]

Support idea of existing two ways.
As it is for weapon and tools color kits: if you're high lvl crafter - get your non-combat comps, and add on creation; or use tech kit, that reguairs combat comps

[Daulnay]

I very much like the current mechanism for individualizing weapons, armor, jewelry, and spells. It's one of the things that makes Istaria unique and interesting. Tech kits would pretty much ruin what I like about crafting.

I'm guessing this proposal is to help newer players find teched weapons and gear. Instead of making Istaria more impersonal, please add something to facilitate crafter - player interaction: a bulletin board in taverns, where players can post 'help wanted/help offered' notices. Think a LFG facility, connecting crafters and customers. Make notices expire after a couple weeks or a month if they aren't cancelled. This could also be a method for people to ask for/offer construction help.

[Machaeon]

Instead of making Istaria more impersonal, please add something to facilitate crafter - player interaction: a bulletin board in taverns, where players can post 'help wanted/help offered' notices. Think a LFG facility, connecting crafters and customers. Make notices expire after a couple weeks or a month if they aren't cancelled. This could also be a method for people to ask for/offer construction help.

I like the idea of this, though I don't know if there's a way this could be implemented... do recall several threads requesting a player mail system where you can send messages to people whether they're online or not getting a flat no from the devs as it would be problematic to implement.

There are always the forums for that kind of thing though, just send in a post for the shard marketplace of your choice and you tend to get good responses for that. Though this system isn't IN the game itself so newer players may not know of it until told to check out the forums.

[Daulnay]

I like the idea of this, though I don't know if there's a way this could be implemented... do recall several threads requesting a player mail system where you can send messages to people whether they're online or not getting a flat no from the devs as it would be problematic to implement.

There are always the forums for that kind of thing though, just send in a post for the shard marketplace of your choice and you tend to get good responses for that. Though this system isn't IN the game itself so newer players may not know of it until told to check out the forums.

There is already a LFG system in the game. Adding what's basically an LFG for crafters should be much easier than adding mail. As someone who rarely reads forums except when Istaria is getting patched, I'd much rather see something in-game and accessible to new players.

[Guaran]

Maybe just make a new emblem/title "Looking for Crafter" ?

Or a couple variations. "Looking for Spellcrafter", "Looking For Armorcrafter", "Looking for Weaponcrafter", "Looking for Tinker/Toolcrafter"

Just make these as new titles, sell cheap like the LFG ones. Then crafters could do a simple player search, send tells, and off you go.

(just noticed this is pretty off-topic, but it seems like a good idea to get around the lack of an in-game bulletin board or mail type system)

[Drevar]

My ideas would be a little bit radical.
1. Give the production of tech kits to Enchanter and switch the school over to the primary skill system. (Don't recall if the construction schools were already switched over before. Its been a while; as in, years...)
2. Require components to be "prepped" as a resource step. The base components would have to be "charged" or "infused" to bring out their magical attributes.
3. Remove all Enchanter construction items from structures and eliminate them from the Enchanter school.