Sad to see you leave

[Lillyjo]

it was meant to be most dragons don't want a lair its too complex and layer upon layer its not easy. most don't like crafting at all, if my biped had as much much power as a dragon I would prolly not like crafting either but I both dragon at 100/100/100/100 so I am not lazy I enjoy crafting I never had a lair I worked on others lair some paid some did not all I got was exp. I am master crafter with both biped and dragon but the new system sucks, sorry but it does and its not fair to have to use another toon to make your resources while you make your building pieces. No 2 ways about it bipeds should get fair exp for building and so should dragons get fair exp for building lairs. as some don't want to wait till they are 100 dragon crafting to start their lair.

Lillyjo. chaos server. what is fair is fair the new system is not fair.

[Kerech]

What I don't understand... why change it now? The game has been out for over 13(?) years. What prompted this change this far into the game's life? To my knowledge, nobody has ever come out and said "Here is what we are changing, we had to do it because of (insert reason here)".

I don't care for the change, but I'll adapt to it. I just wish I understood the reasoning behind it.

[Azath]

I just wish I understood the reasoning behind it.

http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...uction-Schools

Can't quote locked threads but:
"So a few of you have asked why this change is being considered, and my thought is "Fair enough", so here is the reasoning why.


It's already been pointed out that the experience given for different structures is different on biped construction. There are some structures which are simply bugged and are (in general) giving far more experience than others for applying the very same resource. This is actually what first caught my attention and made me look into it closer. It didn't seem right to me that simply because some players are "in the know", they would know to make Structure X repeatedly over Structure Y when leveling a particular tier or resource. Simply because no one has bothered to report the bug because the particular bug is beneficial to players doesn't mean that it isn't a bug.


So note that those structures will be fixed for a future update.


But then I looked at Construction experience versus Lairshaping experience and noticed a real inconsistency. Lairshapers get more than double the experience for the same skill level when applying resources to their lairs. And it's pretty close to the same for simply crafting the resource, with lairshapers getting one and a half to twice the experience.


So no, other than a few structures here and there that are bugged, there is nothing "broken" per se about the system unless you consider that there are some real oddities in the system relative to one another. All the documentation actually exists for changing the biped-construction schools over to using the primary skill system, so the work has already been done and calculated. It was just never something that someone had the time and inclination to implement. And as I was working in the crafting system already on other projects, I thought I'd take a look. " -Valea

Not sure if there's anything else in that thread to answer that though -shrug-

[Guaran]

If the exp for making the materials(keystones, braces, etc.) was more than doubled, as well as the placing(building) exp was more than doubled, then biped construction is now FAR FAR easier than it was in the past. And giving up processing exp (smelting, etc., probably 5 to 7% the total exp before it was changed) was a massive bargain in your favor.

For new biped players interested in construction, just know that construction schools are "Prestige" schools. One of the things that means, is that they cannot be your first school, nor should they be the first one you try to level all the way. Get blacksmith to 100 first. Then you will have both gathering and processing skills for Mason, Fitter, and Carpenter. Then when you start on those three, the leveling will go very quickly. Faster than it ever has.

Someone above posted leveling a biped construction school in 3 days, using a toon with high gathering skill (this is also during a double exp event). If you get blacksmith leveled, you will have about 850 ish (or more) current skill levels for gathering and processing, without taking into account teched gear, which when using t5 triple teched, will take you over 1000. Thats plenty to level those schools, and do so as quickly as Racktors' example.

[Kerech]

http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...uction-Schools

Thanks! I had missed that thread during my last break

[TheRock]

[QUOTE=Azath;316137]http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...uction-Schools

Thanks for linking the post.
I skimmed through the pages and noticed 90% was against the idea yet the 10% plus the ones who sweet-talked Velea won in the end.
My question is;
Why was that post created to get opinions when the change was gonna happen anyways
I guess some of us have something to remember Velea

Just my opinion on that post
cheers

[Dracillion]

Must really be getting an influx of new players to warrant these changes...

No surprise that things are becoming easier.

You play an old game, this is what happens. It's the balancing act before pulling the plug.

[Malicore]

While Racktor was there gathering/making orbs to lvl kerrsol's enchanter school, I too was at the same place on an alt, leveling 2 schools. using the essence shaping on my alt, to make orbs using alchemist. after which, I changed schools to lvl enchanter with the orbs I made in alchemy. Essentially leveling 2 schools at the same time. Later the left over orbs were used to finish alchemy by making suspensions. but all due to the fact, I already had scholar to 100, and gatherer to 75+ and used gear to get 2:1 shining orbs. Still this does not work out efficiently for new players just coming into the game

Gauran: you talk about new players coming into the game, lvl blacksmith to 100 and then act like they are level 100 warriors that can wear T5 cloth gear triple teched. doesn't make sense how you worded it. they wouldn't be so new, if they already had a lvl 100 adv that can wear T5 triple teched cloth. Though it would be beneficial to them to do so. As long as someone can make their armor for them to lvl adv in the first place

--EDITED TO REMOVE PERSONAL ATTACK--

One school that has a major issue, is enchanter. as you do NOT get final exp atm for it's Primary school. Though before you argue the point.. remember, enchanters primary is actually enchanting, not essence structuring. You actually get no exp from doing the actual enchanting. Which Amon agreed to look into, and possibly see about making an exception for. Not sure of the outcome yet, or if it has even been brought up internally as of late

[AmonGwareth]

First, let me make clear that personal attacks are against the forum rules. Just because someone isn't actively playing the game or working for Virtrium does not mean they are fair game. You can review the rules here: http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...62-Forum-Rules

One school that has a major issue, is enchanter. as you do NOT get final exp atm for it's Primary school. Though before you argue the point.. remember, enchanters primary is actually enchanting, not essence structuring. You actually get no exp from doing the actual enchanting. Which Amon agreed to look into, and possibly see about making an exception for. Not sure of the outcome yet, or if it has even been brought up internally as of late

From the Delta 294 notes on blight: Alchemists now get 8 Enchanting per level

[Racktor]

If the exp for making the materials(keystones, braces, etc.) was more than doubled, as well as the placing(building) exp was more than doubled, then biped construction is now FAR FAR easier than it was in the past. And giving up processing exp (smelting, etc., probably 5 to 7% the total exp before it was changed) was a massive bargain in your favor.

It basically is from my knowledge. Devs took all the EXP you got from processing materials and added it to applying/creating the final product and also evened out all the EXP you get from the final products.

The dim essence spheres you see in my vault is literally all it took for me to go from the beginning level (think it's 1?) to lvl 25 or so. It's nuts. That's sort of why I don't understand the complaints. You're benefiting so hard off of this and yet it's... such a negative response.

[...] the new system sucks, sorry but it does and its not fair to have to use another toon to make your resources while you make your building pieces. No 2 ways about it bipeds should get fair exp for building and so should dragons get fair exp for building lairs[...]

There's literally no reason you HAVE to have an alt make it. Kerrsol could've very easily made all of those essence orbs I mentioned earlier at 2:1 himself, I just have 0 inspiration to log onto Kerrsol just to process orbs when I was gathering on Rack, lol. I probably would've benefitted, too, if I used the opportunity to level Gatherer...

EXP is very fair. When you build in a building school you get EXP for building buildings. When you lairshape in a lairshaping school you get EXP for shaping lairs.

It's better now than it's ever been

[Smaug]

I don't think the exp your getting now for making/applying material is double what you got for making/applying before. Its more then used to get for those two things but that total includes what you used to get for processing the raw materials.

If the reason for the changes is cause these are construction schools they should only get experience for constructing, well isnt the processing of raw materials part of constructing something?

And if its cause well this is way it should of been all the time cause these are "construction" schools, then are we gonna see bolt spells taken away from warriors and other melee schools cause well a melee shouldn't ever been throwing around magic bolts (gawd I hope not giving anyone ideas here) since they are melee schools and other oddities in other schools that have gone on since Istaria was born?

If this had been something changed long long ago when game was first being developed I'd be more inclined to say ok but after all these years was anyone complaining that hey we shouldn't of been getting exp for processing raw materials?

Now changing where you could level say fitter by making tools like axes or stone chisels etc or weaving by making pouches that I can more understand, those have nothing to do with either fitter or weaving, but not taking away the exp for processing raw materials into what is needed for construction.

[Lillyjo]

I really don't care what you say, your wrong, applying is not the main part to level the school so forget doubling applying now all you did was make it as bad a lairshaping rather then fix the broken you broke the best features of the game. I am done, its not worth wasting my breath, Guaran, complains about his toon not have a certain school big deal why doesn't he spend more time I me and longshanks on line working the toons to advance, not the years you been there but time in game for the toon he is complaining about.

Lillyjo, chaos server.

[Guaran]

You must have misunderstood, because I haven't complained about any of my toons in regards to anything crafting. My dragon is 100,100,100 crafting and I have a GMC biped as well.

Something I have asked for in the past was, a miner and gatherer school for dragons, to get better skill levels in those than DRCA gets, plus it would mean we could have schools with 10str/level (comparable to fitter), 10 power/level, etc. The game's Lore states that dragons are physically more powerful then the bipeds, adding the suggestion above would only actually make dragons equal in stats to bipeds...

I've also suggested that all exp for base material processing, would automatically go to the miner and gatherer schools, without having to switch. This way, everyone can level whatever schools they wish, while getting the exp applied where needed without doing a bunch of switching. Basically let people always be in miner and gatherer, along with a 3rd school they are leveling. Might not be possible, but would be nice.

These are suggestions, not complaints.

[Lillyjo]

Guaran, that is not what you said to me one day, you were talking about one of your bipeds not being able to level enchanter I think it was, Enchanter is hard as is Mason to get your skill to the top stoneworking doesn't get high enough till you level tinkerer. and that kills all your salvage exp. I see your requests were reasonable, and not listened to also, so I do apologize if I miss understood your comments to me in guild. dragons are strong and why they don't get top exp in mining and quarry I don't understand. but a brand new toon today without alts finds it impossible and confusing to understand that they have to change each school in order to get experience to make something to build, it changes all things I remember growing in horizons, many years ago, it wastes much time traveling back and forth to trainers to do the changes, a really waste of time.

Lillyjo, chaos server

[Kerech]

I've also suggested that all exp for base material processing, would automatically go to the miner and gatherer schools, without having to switch. This way, everyone can level whatever schools they wish, while getting the exp applied where needed without doing a bunch of switching. Basically let people always be in miner and gatherer, along with a 3rd school they are leveling. Might not be possible, but would be nice.

That would be a great change!

Or, even better (in my mind anyway) just let us set what school we want to be active without having to visit a trainer. Visit a trainer the first time to learn the skill, and maybe twice more to advance to Jman and Expert, but in between that, let us change schools whenever we want by checking a box in our School list.

[Lillyjo]

well away from building schools the other schools are changed also as I can use tools in one school but cant pick up the base tools in another also in outfitter, and I don't get any experience for deconning items I get the 50% of materials back but no exp. and its really annoying I can hold a cobalt pick but cant use my steel needle in outfitter, something is goofy.

Lillyjo, chaos server

[Teto Frum]

I really like Guarans idea of bulk bumps for the master crafter and builder titles.

[Knossos]

I really like Guarans idea of bulk bumps for the master crafter and builder titles.

I heartily support this idea as well.

Knossos

[Slimey]

I wish the titles or stars gave a little bump of something. Say "Weaving Expert" gave a bump of say +10 to weaving. Something for any of the titles. I don't ever use them or care if I get them because they do nothing. A +10 or +20 would make it worth my while to have them showing so If I forgot my earing of weaving I would not have to stop and go get it. Any boosts to these "Titles" would be appreciated. Thanks. Slimey on Order