on the limited use of cargo disk

[gkoster]

Yes AS I thought you are not taking into account the recall back. So you were not doing math properly.

Let say it takes time let call it t to run to the resource this ad a speed of 121.
(I put the cargo disk into the inventory on the way to the resource)
On the way back this will require t*121/85 = 1.42* t
Or with recalling 0*t

So the total time taken for running up and down with a cargo disk is 2.42*t and for calling back and for recall this is just 1*t
So copying for you with cargo disk the carrying capacity is 21692 and without it is 8193
So in time t you would transport with cargo disk 21692/2.42= 8964 and for doing it without cargo disk it is 8193/1 = 8193
So the gain you get is 8964/8193 =1.09 so you carry 9% extra with using your cargo disk.

Same calculation on the worst cargo disk, speed and starting backpack and no pet
Running back and forth with cargo disk will take t+t*65/54 = 2.2
So in time t you are transporting 1150 without and 2650/2.2 = 1204
So you gain (1204/1150 -1)* 100% = 5%

In my case this is with loyalty pet where I started noticing the effect, getting granite out of the mines of Augenhall
1780 normal +5000 pet = 6780 the disk is 1500 and speed normal 75.
To normal in time t is 6780 and with cargo disk 7280/(1+75/64)=3352
So my gain was (3352/6780-1)*100% =-51% and yes I started noticing it that I was quicker without. That started me thinking! And doing the math proper. No my case was quite extreme. But when you have a pet one should take a second thought on efficienty.

Also now I have proven my formula just by going through it in saperate way.

I will check with a stop watch when I have found a mother load on some distance from a machine. I'm not that different from what I was with the granite.

[Machaeon]

Yes AS I thought you are not taking into account the recall back. So you were not doing math properly.

It seems like you've neglected to read.

I've already said that recalling is entirely unnecessary in the VAST majority of cases. There was no mention of time in any of the above work I did including your own formula so shocker time was not a factor. And as I've mentioned (repeatedly) a travel scroll can be used with a disk and will ALSO cut your travel time to 0. If you use a Kion travel scroll for example, you'll get a comparable distance to the nearest storage (the vault) as what you could find on plots between the guild shrine and the nearest storage and will in fact put you closer to the vault than if you recalled to Kion.

Because percents are inherently unitless, you can use them to show an increase in time with a decrease in speed or a decrease in time with an increase in speed. So let's assume that you run a certain distance with and without a disk, and that it takes 2 minutes to run that distance without the disk. Efficiency will be shown as bulk gathered/time spent traveling.

Before disk:
Capacity = 8193 bulk
Time spent traveling = 2 min

Efficiency = 8193 bulk/2 min = 4096.5 bulk/min

After disk:
Capacity = 21693 bulk
Percent decrease in speed = -28.93%
Time spent traveling = 2 min + 28.93% = 2.58 min

Efficiency = 21693 bulk/2.58 min = 8408.14 bulk/min

So your efficiency increases from 4096.5 bulk/min to 8408.14 bulk/min which is an increase of 105.25% in efficiency.
Math: 8408.14 - 4096.5 = 4311.64 4311.64/4096.5 x 100 = 105.25%

"But why not include recalling?" You ask. Because travel scrolls do exactly the same thing in putting you right into a city where your vault is close by. Because not all plots with expert machines have a guild shrine. Because it's more convenient to put the resource in the world machine 50m away than recall and wait through a loading screen before I can put the resource away, then have to run back to the spawn to begin the process again. Because a single slightly longer trip while carrying more than twice as much is preferable to two shorter trips carrying the usual amount.

Let me illustrate that last point in a 2 minute MS paint doodle:

Let's assume that with a cargo disk, you can carry 2000 ore (I reach this easily when I gather) and without a cargo disk you carry about 1000 (I routinely get about 800 ore without a disk but I'm being generous here).

To put 2000 ore into your vault, you would have to take one of the options below if there's a plot next to the resource field with a vault and a guild shrine.

With a disk you have one simple step:


Without a disk, you get this convoluted mess:


So you end up traveling more by avoiding a disk, which puts a damper on the speed advantage. And you have to deal with loading screens which takes some time depending on how fast your computer is.

[gkoster]

Ok most of the plots have a recall place and a vault if they have an expert machine. So the distance between recall point and machine and vault are quite often neglectable to the distance travel to the resource gathering spots.

I have played only on order so the reverences are from there. Learning the trade learning to craft i was using the bronze plot and machine in new tris. Then i have done iron, dark iron, granite and sandstone in Augenhall, cobalt, platina and silk in last stand, maple in close to falathien, obsidian on Falathien and Mithril in mitrils anvil

So for dark iron, iron, granite, maple, silk, platina and cobalt the distance to the resources are big ad least 10* as far compared to the distance from recall to machine. Sandstone and mithril are close and the plot in mithrils anvil is built so that recalling is not that convenient. For obsidian I had to use a dragon’s lair which are far too big. I haven’t had any experiences with other places. I have to agree if distances are close the error in my formula becomes big. From this experience my conclusion is that resources are seldom really close to an expert machine.

So yes you go more up and down but that is corrected for in less time spend for going up and down, but you are any how going up and down like creasy any how so you would not really notice. Ps you forgot the put the first step (or last) in moving from vault to resource place. You start some else then you end.

Till so far I haven’t seen any traveling scrolls, but I haven’t been specifically looking for them. So I have no Idee of price or making cost. But they for sure would make the formula I proposed void.


Now you calculation, I have the strong feeling that you are missing out the movement from vault to resource place, because they don’t make sense to my ad all.

Let say it lakes 2 min without cargo disk from vault to resource place.

So without cargo disk time travels will be 2 min getting there and then 0 min to get back = 2 min in total. In this time you transported 8193 so that is 4096.5 bulk/min

With cargo disk it take 2 min to get there and 2.58 min to get back = 4.58 min. In this time you transported 21693 so that is 4736.4 bulk/min

So your gain is ((4736/4096) -1)*100%= 16%.

Sorry I haven't done a time measurement yet.

[Dacurly]

"So without cargo disk time travels will be 2 min getting there and then 0 min to get back = 2 min in total. In this time you transported 8193 so that is 4096.5 bulk/min"

This is wrong, there is no place you go in the game that is 0 min. you have to recall, port, run, fly, Scroll travel, which ever you do they all take time.

[gkoster]

I know recall takes time, but it’s a short time compared to running up and down. Also there will be a short time running to the machine from the recall point and a bid of work to remove excess material before you can recall or walk back. That is one of the reasons I have to prove I’m right by putting it against real time.


The comparison we are look ad is going up and then recalling without cargo disk to going up and then walking back with cargo disk.


But at the moment we have also a discrepancy one side claiming that a cargo disk will give you over 100% extra carrying capacity while I say that it stops ad max 35%.

The 0 time for call back is an approximation I know is wrong i can make the formula better taken into account these times, but then you also need to know the time it takes to run from machine to resource.

[Azath]

But at the moment we have also a discrepancy one side claiming that a cargo disk will give you over 100% extra carrying capacity while I say that it stops ad max 35%.

Uhh..i'm no mathmatician but-

I can carry at maximum 650 ore (6.5k bulk) in my inv+pet combined.
With a disk, 2000 ore (20k bulk).

Every single online calculator + my own calculations say that's a 207.7% increase in bulk...
13.5 / 6.5 x 100 = 207.6923076923077

[gkoster]

got the timing

What i did do is start ad mithril anvils expert smelter, started timer started sprint run to a mihtril resource above the platimum mine in mithril canyons started mining and stoped time. started time again when I had a full load. spitted to mithril and distroyed the exesss. teleported back and did walk to the smelter. and smelted ores. time 1min 36seconds

What i did do is start ad mithril anvils expert smelter, started timer started sprint run to a mihtril resource above the platimum mine in mithril canyons started mining and stoped time. this all with cargo disk in back back. stoped time. got the disk out fillid all up and started time again. split the resources above carrying capacity off and destroyed them. started run wand walked back to the smelter. and smelted the resources. time 2 min 40 seconds

so I have a carrying capacity with out cargo disk of 8040 and with cargo disk 9540.

so with cargo disk I carry 60 cargo a second and without cargo disk 84 cargo a second so my loss 28% in carying capisity

I followed the same route. Stating point and end point are the same. run behaviour is repeateble and if used badly its most negative for without cargo disk. mithrils anvil has a bad set up for recalling and the resources are close.

No I have proven that what I claim is also practical true, I let other to get those promised gains over 100% carying capisty for using a cargo disk. If you find one where you better then 100% please tell what you did do and where.


Dear Azath what you are forgetting is two fold first a cargo disk reduces your speed the bigger the more reduction. and secondly I gain in efficenty by recalling back to the expert machine.