epic thoughts^^

[LOVWYRM]

SoG, Valkor, Reklar,
are greater epics- not involved in any questline (besides dailys and weeklys..)
(ok- SoG title-but thats different)

Queen is involved- but only in the last part of the quest. Same goes for Falgut

Faffnir, Gruck, AoP, Project x
are lesser epics- not involved in any questline (besides dailys and weeklys)
Daknor is involved-in last part of the quest.

Not sure about the anchors (think they are Lesser)-
Major Blight Anchor (in Delga) is not an epic anymore- but last part of a questline.

Correct me pls if I said something wrong.

What I wanted to talk about..again^^..
is SURTHEIM
is his job logical?
I consider him the strongest boss we have atm
you need an experienced-not too small group- perfect equipped with perfect tactics and lots of tricks
to get him down.
He is only a Lesser.
All good.
I love challenges.

But he is part of questlines. Questlines that not necessaryly endgame/vet players have to play.
The reverse is more likely
Vets can ignore him if they cant find good group,
but lots of people I know are stuck in their questlines
esp. if they are not healer or dragons.

Surth seems to be an exception..an annoying one^^
What do you think?
ok- thy for reading-I know I opened a similar thread some time before- but I thought I try again with a fresh thread^^P

[Malicore]

Surtheim is used for about 5 quest lines in the game, included but not limited to the Queen Myloc questline, Burning archer, Dragons ability to make the fiery rift crystals, and possibly a few other quests. Yet he is harder to kill than the queen herself. Does a lesser Epic need to be more powerful than a Greater Epic? does Surtheim need to be an Epic at all?

[Kerech]

does Surtheim need to be an Epic at all?

My vote is "no" since I'm stuck at that point on the Crystalshaping questline now

[LOVWYRM]

Or leave him EPIC- but substitute him with someone easier to get down in the paticular quests..

[Azath]

Definitely agree 100% here.

Surth is good to leave for 1 questline, but as one of the most annoying bosses around, 3 is overkill.

I vehemently oppose that he needs to be killed for the crystalshaper quest (or, doesn't need to be, but one day we're gonna run out of spare fire materia, what then.) - it worked well when he was soloable, but as one of THE toughest epics in the game?? For a questline lv80 can do??? If anything imo - put in a fire elemental at surth's old strength and have that be killed for fire materia for crystalshaper quest, and obviously this one would not be considered a lesser epic.

Dunno what do to about the repetition in burning archer and volcano questline, maybe a different alchemical ingredient for the cleansing bath instead of fire materia trophies that comes from another lesser epic//volcano questline?

Frankly i'm in the "Vets can ignore him if they cant find good group"-group, i usually don't go on a surth hunt unless volcano/BA is needed, and even then i often don't join (it's a headache being a healer for surth xD).

[Zoubek]

While i agree with LOVWYRM i am not sure there is going to be different conclusion then from that thread a year ago, since the arguments have not changed.

[Ming]

I was just saying on Discord that some of the quest lines don't make sense. Especially on Order with our tiny population. The Burning Archer quest isn't considered to be one of the major ones but it now takes so much to finish it. And the rewards for lesser quests that we ARE able to finish, those rewards are not so wonderful, to be honest. My goat just did two Ranger quests and she got two bow tech kits. But you can not apply both of the kits to the same bow and one of the kits, by itself, is just not that great a bow enhancer.
Now all the uber players are going to rant that the game is already too easy or that I should just move to Chaos. Don't bother, please.

[Knossos]

I have a guildmate who has progressed the Burning Archer quest up to the step for defeating Surtheim. Unless the quest is changed to require killing an alternative enemy which is lesser than Surtheim, or that Surtheim be accordingly weakened (or returned to his pre-epic group configuration), my guildmate will most likely continue to wait. We are on Order Shard and have no interest in moving to Chaos Shard.

Knossos

[Guaran]

Surtheim might be a bit overkill. But him being "strong" is warranted, at least for the Burning Archer quest

Surtheim is the very essence of Flame embodied. He is the power of flame in it's purest form.

Now having him be used for the Crystalshaper quest is over the top. He was ok for that quest when he was solo-able. A different mob could be used for that quest. Maybe the kion volcano flame elemental. Or put the one that used to live out in Char (t4) back, and use him for this quest.

Burning Archer is an Epic ability. For that he is fine.

Since the Myloc Queen questline is also an epic questline, he's ok for that as well.

Not saying that those dots aren't a bit much. Perhaps either: Shorten the duration of the dots, or reduce the number of helpers to just 1. Those would be ok compromises, while keeping the new mechanics around. He is interesting in that he takes different tactics and uses different mechanics than the other bosses.

*******

On a related note. Someone in Discord was complaining about the Dire Wolf Hide Grip techs for bows... and them not being as good as a Demon Flurry. I think those are pretty decent techs. At least the single quest reward version that is stronger than the rest is.

As for the Demon Flurry being "too hard" to get. I got multiple points for that. The same basic ones I have for someone a few months back who was whining in Chaos Marketplace about his t5 gear and how t5 comps were too hard to gather.. For one, you don't need to use t5 comps for your first set of t5 gear. Make some t5 gear with t3 techs. Much easier to obtain comps. Less needed. Once you get that set built, you can start working on a t5 teched version... Or you could just play using that as-is. You'd be fine.

So I told them they didn't need t5 techs on their first set of gear. Same goes for weapons, no one "needs" an epic weapon. You don't need a Demon Flurry. You want it, but don't really need it. There's a difference. They are epic for a reason. They are meant to be difficult to obtain. And honestly, a crafted bow with the dire hide tech is pretty close to the epic bows. You could play for years with that crafted bow and not enjoy the game any less...

The discord argument was something like "make the dire hide tech equal to an epic, so I can have an epic without having to do the work required to get a Demon bow.." I have to disagree with that. I actually wouldn't mind the dire hide tech being stronger, but think the quest should become more difficult to reflect it. Perhaps add another quest on the end of that chain, to earn an "Improved Dire Hide Grip" tech. Have part of the quest be to loot something off the Dire Wolves in Valkor's Lair. Not that difficult but at least epic related...

But reasons like "I can't find a group to kill epics" are not really valid for either 1) making epics into standard difficulty encounters, or 2) making non-epic items that end up being equal to the epic weapons themselves. The second one would invalidate the epic weapons and make them pointless.

@Lovwyrm

Reklar does have a small quest related to him, the one that earns you the Primal Boon spell... He had an event launch him into the game... so did Valkor (the first haloween even iirc). Daknor and Fafnir came in as events also, and they do have questlines (to get the Ceremonial Shield and Scales. And originally you had to kill each at least once to finish the questlines. Fafnir can be skipped now..). Gruk was part of that same event but nothing ever came in specific to him. Before that could happen Horizons entered the "Dark Times"...

But it's a good point. Some more epic questlines that sends you after the various epic bosses like Reklar, Valkor, and Gruk would be good. Maybe use Gruk as part of a new quest to learn Banshee. Reklar to learn Soul-Gate. Things like that

[flamefeniks]

Since this is "epic 'thoughts' " and all, here's a thought of mine, Burning Archer seems rather... (very?) weak? Or is that just my imaginitation lol.
Because honestly if you have to defeat Surtheim, who's one of the strongest now, I expected well, a strong epic ability. :/

[Ming]

Since this is "epic 'thoughts' " and all, here's a thought of mine, Burning Archer seems rather... (very?) weak? Or is that just my imaginitation lol.
Because honestly if you have to defeat Surtheim, who's one of the strongest now, I expected well, a strong epic ability. :/

Agree. Does less dmg than epic spells. And those who play dragons need to keep in mind they do a lot more damage than bipeds.

[Malicore]

Agree. Does less dmg than epic spells. And those who play dragons need to keep in mind they do a lot more damage than bipeds.

Keep in mind also, that even though it seems a bit weak.. it's fire attack. does well against icy mobs. and does a area effect of 35. now with multicast, perfect spell and burnout.. it' is a very nice epic ability I think.

[LOVWYRM]

thy Amon
that is perfect!!

Guaran- great idea:-)

We have atm TEN or more guildies /friends who need the quest for different reasons. (on Chaos).
I did not open that thread just beat that poor horse^^
Thy all who gave input here

[Elteria]

Keep in mind also, that even though it seems a bit weak.. it's fire attack. does well against icy mobs. and does a area effect of 35. now with multicast, perfect spell and burnout.. it' is a very nice epic ability I think.

Burning Archer is an ability, you cannot use multicast on it?

[Guaran]

You can.

@Lov, ok just let me know when I'm on, we can go get him. Be sure all those who need him have cleanses on all their spells that can take cleanse. We will be ok.

[Malicore]

Burning Archer is an ability, you cannot use multicast on it?

I can't say 100% i have used it. but that's not to say it actually did anything. I'd have to try it again, it's been a long time. I know it doesn't work with shining blades and that's a spell. BTW drain strike is an ability for dragons, use dragon's multi-cast (primal cast?) and it disappears too when you use drain strike. I made that mistake many times. It was supposed to be used for BoFB when I put it on, but in a fight, sometimes I need to hit something else prior to casting BFoB. and I found out drain strike causes it to reset. Therefore it must use it

BTW: all dragons breaths are abilities. dragons muticast works with them all