So, what's wrong with grouping?

[Aamer Khan]

I mean, some mobs are just to hard with out taking a small group along.

Why is this somehow viewed as a bad thing? If you cannot solo a mob, and must take a group is this "forced grouping"? Some will define it that way and some will not.

But this is a MMO correct? Is not groups and playing with other players what it is all about?

Could we have built the mines or bridges SOLO?

Can KAA be killed solo? ( by anyone for that matter )

Plese tell me what you think. I am seriously interested to know what the community feels.

[Vahrokh]

I see where you aim.

But while grouping is fun and nice and neat... there are hunts that to avoid litigations and discussion are FAR better done alone.

I.e. if you need to loot a rare drop it's better not to group with another dude with the same need else litigations will ensue.

If you need to hunt for reagents (352 now still left for me) and you are in a group you will get problems when the reagents are extremely requested and you cannot even loot fast like the others (i.e. your size hides tiny mob corpses and you have to rotate and zoom to see them).

Until guildies can help you it goes fine. But with nowadays guilds being like 4 people on at a time when you are lucky and half craft when you need to hunt... in the end it's just you and another dude.

If you are not a grand killer (i.e. you are monk, dragon or other gimps) you will not even dare to object if the other guy loots 70% of the stuff (i.e. skel sternums, aeggror packets) and lets you loot necrofly wings (the level 56 ones - useless for tier V) and the vast amomut of mummies (useless vapors - for me at least).

So I still hold my opinion that grouping for guild hunt or friends hunt is fine (but these hunts are mostly done to stay together, not to die so they are not at the hardest mobs) but you still have to do stuff alone when the products are for you alone.

[thefatone]

I love the fact that in this game that I am not forced to group all the time. I have 5 schools and have done most, not all, of the levels solo. I dont know, its just how I am. Groups are fun sometimes, just not all the for me.

There is going to be two side, the group and the non-group, Horizons seems to provide for both.
If there are Mobs that groups are needed in order to defeat, cool, because it's not ALL the mobs just some. And from what I gather, it's a very small amount at that.

[Serat]

I only like to group when complaining. So, depending on how this thread goes, I may be spam posting "lfg"..[:P]

And to be serious, or as serious as I can be... no, nothing wrong with grouping or even having some quests, mobs, encounters require ("force")grouping. I wouldn't strike the balance too far towardsforcedgrouping, but occasional requirements don't bother me. But some people want all mobs to be balanced for soloing, which makes group combat really boring. The only way group combat gets fun with soloable mobs is if you pull tons of mobs at once and kinda force the issue. Some mobs should be balanced for group combat so that groups can go there and have fun without grabbing 15 mobs at once (which leads to its own problems). An alternative system would be that mobs have a better BAF (bring a friend)capability depending on the player character group, so that if you pull a mobin a group of 3, you are getting two others from the region,pull in a group of 10, you are getting many more. DAoC does this rather well (though they make crowd control much more relevant to gameplay than does HZ).

In fact, I would encourage high end encounters that drive the storyline to be balanced for a group form instead of individuals. It would be nice if they could set up a fort that wecould conquer through a sustained, coordinated attack.

[CeroBostwick]

I have fun either way; sometimes, you just want to hunt alone, for whatever reason. But it can be a blast to have a group of friends together and either just go out hunting, or help someone on a RoP, or just try to take down one of those mean named ones. I really don't think grouping is forced on anyone but the Dragons so far..[;)]

[Vahrokh]

But some people want all mobs to be balanced for soloing, which makes group combat really boring.

Maybe there should be bigger prize for group requiring mobs than a reagent.

And probably there should be soloable mobs for self-procuring reagents.

It tends to become a tad boring convincing people to help you for days on the same mobs for the 20-40 reagents needed for a tech.

[PJ]

Well the mines and bridges could be soloed over a long period of time. Lots of people worked on them, so they weren't 'soloed' but some of the people who worked on them worked on them solo.

And Kaa could be done solo back in the day with the elemental skellies, haven't heard of anybody doing so now, but i dont' believe its impossible.

You can solo in a MMORPG and still interact with other players. I buy and sell and trade. I've made the vast majority of what money I do have by selling to other players, I don't care for the pawnbroker. I often group for events and the occasional RoP, but for comp hunting and leveling I solo.

Soloing for me is just a personal preference (PJ=control freak). My guild died in december so I've been soloing a long time. Were no real benefits on group crafting so I crafted solo. My first adventure class, Shaman, was more suited to soloing than grouping as its a slow killing class. So I soloed. I developed a very sophisticated, controlled style of fighting perfect for soloing which has persisted even though i've become equiped for the more fast paced style of group fighting. Even today I'd probably have a better shot solo versus say a kwellen group than with a group. Groups tend to have a caution rating inversly proportional to the number of people in it. I don't like to die, I don't very often cause I'm careful and cautious. Again its mostly personal preference.

[Silvanathan Shadowbane]

I prefer actually not to group. This is my first MMO and I only joined as there is no pvp in this. I like it because I am not forced to group to play HZ. Yes having a group does make it quicker to kill creatures, but I like the feeling of killing some creature all on my own. I do, however, think that some mobs I need a group, I can't take on undead/WA mobs by myself unless they are a bit under my level, which is a tad frustrating.

[padishar]

Maybe there should be bigger prize for group requiring mobs than a reagent.

And probably there should be soloable mobs for self-procuring reagents.

It tends to become a tad boring convincing people to help you for days on the same mobs for the 20-40 reagents needed for a tech.

Couldn't agree more, hunting for tech comps is not what I want to do in a group. Those mobs should be soloable, but at the same time there should be mobs that youneed to be grouped in order to take out, and provide other loot.

[Kulamata]

There should be the choice at all levels. That's why it's nice to see varying blight anchortiers. Guild hunts should have suitable targets, and certainly so should solo players.

I think it's working pretty well now, for most classes.

[evilkarl]

I can only tolerate so much solo'ing after a few hours I find it quite boring. I much prefer to hunt with my friends. However I would not want to be forced into requiring a group in order to hunt at present some places are a little like that the satyr isles I now (after dying 3 times last night due to always getting adds) think are designed for groups more than solo.

I really hate being chain stunned so anything that does that i tend never to hunt solo.

[Gilresk]

I think the way that some creatures require grouping (or at least are considerably more managable for most classes) right now is fine. It's certainly not all creatures, so I don't think it's really forced grouping.

I think some players are not looking at hunting correctly as well. Some seem to think, I need to get X, therefore I must hunt thing that drops X and if I can't, then the system is broken. Well if you can manage to hunt that creature, then that's good. If you can't handle it on your own, due to class or it not being possible to do solo, then don't. Hunt the things that you can, take the trophies and components it drops, sell them, and buy the component X you need with the money you get from selling those things.

[thefatone]

sorry, OT - but, what are reagent(s)?

[Aamer Khan]

Oh I do agree that given a year or two, even hardcore construction crafters could have finished a mine solo. But of course thats not why it was setup that way. This is PvE, and devoted to the community banding together to accomplish the major goals.

This game has one of, if not the best community in any game I've played. It has been amazing to see what we together could do. So, it's more than just taste and personal preference. It's how the game was setup from the get go. NO satyr machine could have been killed solo. The dryads would still be hiding in the tree... without groups.

All I'm really trying to understand is why grouping ( whether forced or not ) could be considered bad or overly harsh in a game designed around it as a basic concept.

[PJ]

I can only tolerate so much solo'ing after a few hours I find it quite boring. I much prefer to hunt with my friends. However I would not want to be forced into requiring a group in order to hunt at present some places are a little like that the satyr isles I now (after dying 3 times last night due to always getting adds) think are designed for groups more than solo.

I really hate being chain stunned so anything that does that i tend never to hunt solo.

Satyr Islands are fun place to solo, although not for people with ratings close to the mobs there i admit. But for me i enjoy the challenge, although you gotta be ******** careful and know when to undergo a strategic retreat. Although sometimes death is unavoidable. Like when a palsy wisp and two wraith groups spawn on top of you <grumble>.

[PJ]

Oh I do agree that given a year or two, even hardcore construction crafters could have finished a mine solo. But of course thats not why it was setup that way. This is PvE, and devoted to the community banding together to accomplish the major goals.

This game has one of, if not the best community in any game I've played. It has been amazing to see what we together could do. So, it's more than just taste and personal preference. It's how the game was setup from the get go. NO satyr machine could have been killed solo. The dryads would still be hiding in the tree... without groups.

All I'm really trying to understand is why grouping ( whether forced or not ) could be considered bad or overly harsh in a game designed around it as a basic concept.

There's a difference between 'solo' and 'single player'


People for the most part, in my experience at least, arent' complaining about grouping during events, against boss mobs, and for epic changes to the world. People are complaining about forced or 'strongly encouraged' grouping for more pedestrian tasks; like leveling,crafting, gathering components, building, etc.

[Crissa]

reagents, components...

These are synonyms for the items required by a technique, spell, or ability.

...I rather like grouping, as I foten do it even when I'm nowhere near others. Even a low-level character can make the difference when worked appropriately with a higher level character.

Mostly, though, lately, I've found critters to be in too low a supply to do much grouping... And those which are in supply to be too powered up anyhow.

-Crissa

[Vahrokh]

Hunt the things that you can, take the trophies and components it drops, sell them, and buy the component X you need with the money you get from selling those things.

The things I cannot huntdecently atm cover:

- all the sathyr islands
- all the western deadlands
- all the eastern deadlands

Basically all I have to do at my capped and only level 100 is to kill beetles, wolves and golems and be happy with it?

And what about the fact that such mobs I can kill are in the broken spaws so I have to wait 4 hours to spawn a wolf? Or 20 minutes and I get 2 - 3 beetles?

[evilkarl]

Satyr Islands are fun place to solo, although not for people with ratings close to the mobs there i admit. But for me i enjoy the challenge, although you gotta be ******** careful and know when to undergo a strategic retreat. Although sometimes death is unavoidable. Like when a palsy wisp and two wraith groups spawn on top of you <grumble>.

Well my rating is never near theres. However I tend to leave things until I'm below 25% health to run and thats a bad idea that normally results in death...I need to reasses that tactic.

If I had more healing I might be able to do it but in my present school I died a number of times to just 2 mobs which irked me... I did enjoy the challenge though but have decided I might hold off until i have a new suit of armour and new smashy stick before trying again.

[CeroBostwick]

thefatone: reagents are the body parts (or other items) needed to put a tech on any given piece of gear.[;)]