A clueless biped's thought's on the hoard.

[Thorgat]

So if I manage to kill a hatchling I can put its head over my none-existing fireplace? :P
Seriously, I think fireclaws idea is pretty good. Prevents making of tons of items but means they hunt for precious stuff.

[Rainspider]

2. Each kill the dragon participates in gives them hoard automatically. Simply put, it is a percentage of experience gained.


I like this idea, they could also give us a hoard/exp slider bar. Make it where we could adjust how much hoard and exp we get. If we need hoard, move the slider to a hoard percentage but then we are getting less xp from the kills. Make it where we either have to decide do we want to get exp or do we want to get hoard. Basically allowing us to turn our xp we gain into hoard if we need it. this way a dragon has to choose what is more important to him. It would also keep adv dragons from having to craft it they dont like too.
You would also have to make it where each dragon had to actually do damage in the fight to gain the hoard.(this would keep powerlvlers from getting mass hoard) if you did it this way though, the hoard would also be lvl based. It would mean that lvl100 dragons would have to kill things higher then them to get hoard.

Just a thought.

[Bori Grimbattle]

As far as crafting Hoard items go other then scales dragons have few options other then spells. Let them use their craft and artisanship to create "Shineys" for the hoard. Dragons are well under the 750 form cap so have plenty of room to do something like this.

Then create items that dragons can make out of metals/gems/essence that are worthy of being in a Dragons Horde. After all a pile of junk is still a pile of junk no matter how high you pile it. 30,000 iron bastard swords are just a pile of iron in a different shape. If you think about it in a realistic sense the more of one type of item in the Horde the lower the value should be. One rare gem encrusted Sceptre can be worth millions, 100,000 of them are just cheap factory knockoffs.

Lower the cap for the Hoard and depending on how many items are created (formulas) have that factor in to how much each item is worth. The more of one type of item the lower the worth. An easy way to have multiple yet different items would be to allow for dyes or techs to be applied again created for dragons only. The crafting time to create an item may increase but the rewards would be so much higher.

Example: A Golden bird with ruby eyes that sings when spoken to..

Will need essence, gold, tincture of gold to add color highlights,essence to animate it and give it music,cut rubies. Then make it worth2 million hoard points.

So then one may ask what happens when the dragon burns Hoard. The above can be kept separate from the Main or General Hoard. It determines the Dragons position in Society and his armour value. The General Hoard is what the dragon mass crafts to fuel his use of Gold Rage,Dragon Strike,etc. By separating the two you can cater to those that seldom use their specials and to those that rely heavily on them. Picture the General Hoard as a gas tank. Once empty the Specials cannot be used and they cannot draw from the Prestige Hoard.

Once crafted the Prestige items can be traded (for rp purposes) though after they are traded they are no longer Hoardable. This will prevent one dragon from powerlevelling anothers Hoard.


Just some ideas for this thread.bash away! [8-)]

[AmonGwareth]

Two things:

1. From the latest Blight Patch notes - Additions
[*]Dragon Hoardables have started to appear in the loot tables for all the monsters.

2. Check this thread: http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=54461

Yes, the Royal Bell truly is worth 6400 HV. And yes, there are items in the new hoardable system that top 50,000 HV.

- Amon

[cauri_order]

Two things:

1. From the latest Blight Patch notes - Additions
[*]Dragon Hoardables have started to appear in the loot tables for all the monsters.

2. Check this thread: http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=54461

Yes, the Royal Bell truly is worth 6400 HV. And yes, there are items in the new hoardable system that top 50,000 HV.

- Amon

Wonder why this thread was ressurected......

Anyway, Amon, while myself and fellow dragons applaud the increase in dragon hoardable drops, it still doesn't address the issue of building 25 mil hoard for a whoopinng 100 breath damage (on an attack that frequently misses) and 400 armor. Just really isn't worth it.

Can you poke Manga a couple times and see if he'll post some of his ideas on the revamp on the hoard system? :-)

[cauri_order]

[*]

oops

[oluviel]

still the benefits of the hoard should be expanded.

I say the hoard levels should remain the same but the benefits should grow and expand outsidethe armor benefit into other areas such as stats/haste ect.
Dragons have no multiclass, and the hoard should be the extra pool of power that is time consuming to build but well worth the efforts over time, and the bulk of the hoard abilities should not only be attacks but many more passive bonuses than ac.

[evilkarl]

With out a doubt the benefits need to improve

[Khoal]

This post was from december. It was just reanimated =)

Yup. An undead thread. [:P]

[Kulamata]

For a period there, AE had the appearance of lashing out at the players from stress and frustration. So this looked like "Oh you didn't like hoard leakage? Okay, we'll take it out, but just try to fill your hoard now!"

Very unfortunate perception.

The new breeze blowing is welcome for many, many reasons.

[Rainspider]

yes sorry i brought it back up again, i just wanted to put in my feelings on hoard. This topic should never die until it is all good. I myself dont ever see myself at getting 25mil hoard as i do not have the time to craft that much. when i play i would like to do things other then sit there watching my dragon dig in the dirt for hours just to get a few Kin hoard. I would rather spend that time adventuring or helping new players.

[gopher65]

*takes maul in hand* DIE UNDEAD THREAD! DIEEEEEE!

[Guaran]

Guaran begins casting Ressurection on Thread...

Thread has been ressurected.

Guaran uses Ablative Shielding.

You have blocked an incoming attack.

Let the hoard live!!!! :P

[Seikojin]

:o
Well as it stands we will have to see how the new loot tables work for the players... If the hoardables fall fast enough, there may be no need to change how hoard is gained...

But I still think the bonuses from hoard should say be doubled at least... And I think Being an adult should change how much you get per hoard level... And the same with Ancient... Like Hatchie gets 4 ar per hoard level, adult gets 8 ar per hoard level and ancient gets 12 ar per level... As an example...

[Senkeleron Fell]

I think the hoard value of hoardable loot should be bumped WAY up. High enough so that crafted loot is something you can use, but nobody would really want to. Dragons should be looting all their hoard, not having it made for them.

[Jaraiden]

I think the hoard value of hoardable loot should be bumped WAY up. High enough so that crafted loot is something you can use, but nobody would really want to. Dragons should be looting all their hoard, not having it made for them.

Hoard just needs reworking. The scaling from 1 to 50 (1 million) then to 100 (26 or so million) is just rediculous. Granted, had AE put effort into how high level dragons would be struggling for hoard, it would have been a better system over a year ago.

Dragons of fantasy stashed valuable items from their battles. As their age increased, so did their power andhoard.

AE and now TulgAE deemed it proper for dragons to work with biped crafters to craft hoard items. That is acceptable from a Helian viewpoint, if in moderation (certainly not being feed hoard as there is no cooperation). Not an ideal arrangement, but is variety from looting hoard and crafting own hoard.

From a Lunus ("stay the hell away from me") viewpoint, that is beneath them (well there are liberal Lunus dragons). Crafted items as gifts yes, gaining craft experience by making hoard items yes (if not auto deconstructing), but most of their hoard should be coming from defeated creatures (particularly the WA dragons to raid their hoards and monsters that would have an affinity for shiny hoard items - undead humanoids having items while living, but certainly not grouk). Why would a wolf have a hoard item? Granted, could indirectly from killing a non-Gifted NPC, but that would be very rare (as in why would a random NPC be walking amid wolves with a Brass bell?).

Then there is the issue of player to player interaction in the form of one sided dependency - the game design of dragons ("solitary by nature") relying on the skills of the other races too much. However, that is a broader topic than just hoard.

If hoard is added to all monster loot tables, then it is a weak and poorly thought solution to what should be a clearly lore-based issue - loot hoard fromWA monsters (per the Withered Scales event). Just have to see.

A hoard system closer to lore or just convenient, game functionality. I like the former, but TulgAE and some players prefer the latter - is more fun, in a sense.

And, if some WA monsters are combined farmed for hoard items then consigned for unreasonable prices . . . . well that is part of roleplaying, which has consequences (dragons remember greedy bipeds). Have to see on that also (but I've seen 1 sp brass bells, :: sighs :: ).

Finally, Order or Chaos it doesn't matter much, hoard items should drop in some logical, consistent, manner.

[Vahrokh]

I did not have any problem maxing my hoard, the old way (i.e. no caps, no "odd" spells, no fireworks etc).

Raising hoard seemed to me like raising about 2 craft classes 0 - 100.

Tedious but perfectly feasible.

I think too many think hoard is too an high number to achieve but the problem is instead about what you get achieving that high number.

If the reward had been somehow acceptable I am sure many more would be eager to get 25M hoard.

So far getting hoard is like getting buying aPorsche and getting a city car.
The price for a Porsche could be acceptable, it's not when for the same price you get a city car.

About hoard implementation: I thought HARD on the worst ways to implement it.
I have to say I could not find any worse than the implementation in Horizons. Save for the self consuming hoard bitin the beginnings, which was the peak of the worst thing ever.

[gopher65]

I agree Vahrokh. I figure that I could make max hoard using just bottlecaps (which is a VERY ineffient way to make hoard) in about 6 months. Using a halfway decent method I could do it in half that time, without any strain or anything other than casual play.

Given that a hardcore player can make ~ 1 million hoard a day (which really sucks to do), it isn't that hard to get hoard. What bites is what you get for attaining hoard. The tiny rewards simply aren't worth the labour.

If the rewards were greater, I don't think many people would have a problem with the current hoard system (after good hoard drops are implemented anyway).

[Seikojin]

:o
Hmm in http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=56041

For the Dragons?

?Dragons now have innate armor boost of 8 per level instead of 4 per level.
?Dragon scales now offer some basic armor protection. These values are by tier, with Tier 1 scales offering 5 points of inherent armor protection, Tier 2 10 points, Tier 3 15 points, Tier 4 20 points, and Tier 5 25 points. This change affects new and existing dragon scales.
?Dragon Breath of Fire has been changed to 30 second recycle time and the Area Effect removed to be replaced by a more powerful Area Effect Breath of Flame Burst (to be added at the next patch.)

Hmm... :) I like this... I think this has been in the works for a while though...

[Goriax]

My thoughts on hoard and how to approach it:

1. Hoard is fundamentally a good idea. Hoards and dragons go together.
2. Give some thought to the backstory. While in many stories dragons pillage bipeds for their hoards there are exceptions, especially with good dragons. There may be nothing wrong with crafting hoard -- or wheeling and dealing for hoard -- in the right backstory. For example, some of the good dragons in the Draconomicon vastly prefer only certain types of hoard items (one might prefer valuable tapestries for example) and will make deals with others to get them.
3. Hoard should not be ONLY random drops. It should be possible to WORK on hoard if you want to raise it faster. If it's just random drops you can't do anything to raise your hoard much faster then just blind hunting. So whether it's crafting or whether it's raiding certain kinds of mobs, there should be SOMETHING you can do if you're particularly interested in raising hoard.
4. While it took me a long time to get used to the idea, I've come to like hoard abilities -- you can be very powerful for a short time if you're willing to pay the price. It makes me want to gather hoard even if there are no other benefits. Of course the cost of hoard abilities needs to be carefully balanced with the availability of hoard. In many ways this may be the most important aspect of hoard.
5. Rare drops of very high hoard value would be nice. In fact rare and highly sought after drops are nice regardless of race. A dragon should be at least as excited at getting a priceless diamond as a biped would be to get something rare and powerful. The key is that the drops remain rare, valuable, and unfarmable.
6. I'd really like to be able to see my hoard once I have a lair.