Ancient Rite of Passage

[Hasai]

Sorry I'm late with my 2 coppers worth, but I'll try to make up for it.

First, I would ask the devs to treat ancient dragons as a true Prestige class, and to keep this in mind at all times.What I mean by Prestige here that it's a screaming monster to attain, but if you attain it you indeed have something to be proud of. Think six weeks on Parris Island. This is not, nor will ever be, one of those classes that some kid levels to godhood in a week.

For the entry requirements, I'm thinking that 90 in one class would work, as long as those are just the entry requirements for ARoP and most definitely are not the completion requirements. We definitely need a time-since-creation threshold, though I'm a tad leery of a mere 100 days and would suggest 200 or more. Personally I would prefer a full year, but the business side of the house might not be able to withstand that. I would like to point out, however, that if the typical gamer does indeed hang around for only 2-4 months as someone stated earlier, then a 200+ threshold would provide some incentive for people to hang around longer (and keep paying on their subscriptions), plus help to weed-out the lamers so many of the elder dragons dread.

As for hoard, first let me be honest; I hate the bloody thing. Not the concept itself, but the utter, mind-numbing grind that is required to build it up to the dizzying heights that some dragons aspire to. Personally, I would prefer to not have a hoard requirement for the ARoP. Instead, what I would like to suggest that if a dragon makes it through to Ancient-hood, the benefits accrued to that dragon by its hoard is multiplied by at least a factor of five. Frankly, on this I feel a factor of ten wouldn't be too extreme. This compromise would allow those without a huge hoard to start their ARoP, while at the same time reward those who dedicated the tremendous amount of time and effort required to build theirs up.

Speaking of benefits, after all the trials and tribulations of playing a dragon character all these months, the Ancient dragon must truly be the elite class of Horizons. No longer a brightly-colored, dragon-shaped pinata the mobs whack to pieces and the bipeds sneer at, but the honest-to-goodness dragon that was promised by the ads and then some. This should be a creature that reduces a high-level mob to a smoking hole in the ground in ten seconds flat. This should be a creature that bipeds ask for help rather than the current humiliating state of affairs. Finally, this should be a creature that players look at and say to themselves "Wow; I wish I had something like that!" But most never will, because most are not willing to invest the time and effort to get it.

This is the creature that will be needed to keep the dedicated dragon players in the game (and paying the bills), and with the entry threshold set high enough, there won't be so many as to unbalance the game (as if it weren't already) no matter how powerful the Ancients are.

'Nuff said.
[G]

[Jaraiden]

By David Bowman's own words in an interview posted July 26, 2004 . . .

No Dragon yet qualifies for the Ancient Rite of Passage. It is being discussed and planned for. It is not part of this set of major upgrades to Horizons.

http://web174.cyberwebserver-14.de/h...ntent&id=2

So if you go from December 9, 2003 to July 26, 2004, that is 230 days.

If you can find an earlier time he said the same words (and I know there is another interview with the same words), please post it.

Horizons was released without in game mechanisms for a dragon to attain adulthood (finished around April 2004) and to attain Ancient status (January or February 2005). By this action, Ancient status should take longer. Thus, if dragons were a priority at AE, and allowing dragons to attain Ancient status in 100 days, AE would have devoted the effort to have completed the adult content and Ancient content of Horizons MUCH sooner.

And we all know adult dragon content is STILL lacking.

Now if Mr. Bowman wants to retract his words, then the 100 days should appease the "I wanna" crowd and soon the servers will be flooded with Ancient dragons and players wanting their dragon to be powerleveled (and hoard fed) through adult and to meeting Ancient requirements (and then sleeping as they play their biped alt until that 100 days).

What are the hoard requirements? It is a design of the race, prominent in Istarian lore, and 250,000 hoard is required to attain adult status. It certainly has to be more than 250,000.

Edit: corrected July date and days

[oluviel]

i hope the hoard requirement ends up being lower than i think, but the 250k req for adult was the max hoard for lvl 30. Most likely the hoard req for ancient will be 14ish? whatever the requirement for a lvl 90 hoard. That would weed out many dragons for a long time to reach ancient. I've been a hoard fiend since day one and still only have 7.1mil. It was only with the old hoard item days that i was actually getting hoard at a decent rate. now at llvl 100 craft the best i can do is about 50k per hour. With hoard items you could get lucky and make 2x that in one hour (using the method offarming tech components to sell, buying all hoard items on the consigners and hunting)

[Dragonboy]

How difficult the Ancient RoP is will always be a point of discussion anyways whatever requirements there will be placed...

But can anyone convince me anyways why ancient wont be an super enlarged version of a hatchling...
Fighting as a Hatchling is almost the same as fighting as an Adult except you have the ability to fly away when overpowered...

The bonus when you go from Hatchling to Adult is pathetic, Adults are many times bigger and should do a lot more damage in T&C attacks without counting allocated trainingpoints...

To be honest as long as that transition is still pathetic why should we expect an ancient to be the strongest being alive in Istaria...
It will probably will become no more then a pet in comparison to the rating 120+ bipeds...

Everyone wants very tough requirements for Ancient RoP and personally I agree to those, but adult RoP is far to difficult to do solo and has absolutely pathetic rewards...

So considering this I am kinda sceptical about Ancient RoP rewards in comparison to the requirements people want...
If the rewards equal the rewards granted after finishing Adult RoP I would rather have the requirements DB stated in the start of the thread because then apart from the larger size it is almost not worth the effort...

People dont get me wrong, I wanna become ancient in the future if the game stays as enjoying in the future as it is now, but I have my doubtabout becoming the strongest being in Istaria...

[Marco]

But can anyone convince me anyways why ancient wont be an super enlarged version of a hatchling...

Soz, if it wasn't this way DB would proudly present the über rewards. As no rewards has been proudly presented yet... At least it saves me money.

[Spellbound]

Kumu, you stating that "if the requirements stay as they are, you will cancel your account" to me is a threat. Your telling DB and the devs to change it or else you will cancel.

I hope the requirementsstay just like they are. All the people that canceltheir accounts means there will be fewer Ancients. :)

[Poony666]

Kumu, you stating that "if the requirements stay as they are, you will cancel your account" to me is a threat. Your telling DB and the devs to change it or else you will cancel.

Sadly enough if enough people said it, it'd probably work.

That is not an attack at you Kumu just a generalised statement.

[Ktithrak]

Hasai wrote:

Speaking of benefits, after all the trials and tribulations of playing a dragon character all these months, the Ancient dragon must truly be the elite class of Horizons. No longer a brightly-colored, dragon-shaped pinata the mobs whack to pieces and the bipeds sneer at, but the honest-to-goodness dragon that was promised by the ads and then some. This should be a creature that reduces a high-level mob to a smoking hole in the ground in ten seconds flat. This should be a creature that bipeds ask for help rather than the current humiliating state of affairs. Finally, this should be a creature that players look at and say to themselves "Wow; I wish I had something like that!" But most never will, because most are not willing to invest the time and effort to get it.


True!

[Vahrokh]

I hope the requirementsstay just like they are. All the people that canceltheir accounts means there will be fewer Ancients.

First you say I am an idiot because after 3 weeks of total abulic inadempience and after tickets over tickets I kicked devs butts by making them do their job at fixing their holes.

Then you hope that people leaves to have fewer ancients.

We ain't trolls, ain't we?


Anyway let more people quit in disgust. It's smart. We'll have so few ancients that we'll be finally proud. On my shard there are at most 6 -8 x level 100 on at peak time.
4 of them announced they'll quit basing on ancient outcome.

There will be left 2 - 4ancients on my shard.
A clear, smart, fruitful investment of 2 months of programmers to make ancient forsomanypeople.

But probably you are right. If we really have to get the same risible "bonuses" that we got from RoP it's would have been much better to just announce:

"I confirm what I said in that summer interview: dragons are intended to be pets". Deal with it. Instead we got this wobbling. The will is to let dragons stink forever. The fear is to lose subscriptions.

And yesterday I understood the reason of this fear. As I announced that it's my last battle for dragons and then if I lose it I won't stay, I started to get bombarded by tells of people willing for me to stay and that if I quit for them playing won't be the same etc. etc.
If even me that am FAR from being nice and symphatic I can influence people by just being or not, I can imagine the domino effects of those famous who will quit.
It's not "treating" of quitting. It's just thatlike it or not,the side effects willhappen.

I myself am the only one in my shard with all the techs V (even crush resistances etc. etc.) plus all the spellswith all the techs on them plus the old dragon techs...
(in my shard not many have all in a field. Maybe in NA there are a ton of maxed people, in EU not. Even getting a teched tool V is an hell and requires days offering 200s for it!


The day I quit:

- my guild loses their spellcrafter. They all depend on me and the alternatives for them suck. Pissed people.

- dragons here and there ask me equipments. One day I crafted teched scales V for 7 hours. I quit and no one has anymore all the techs. Pissed people.

- many friends of mine need me to level up craft much faster. If I quit they will be greatly pissed besides I was a friend of them etc. etc.

- those I roleplay with got strong bonds with me. Guess what if I quit.

Some days I'd want to quit at once, not even waiting for ancient. Then Ithink about all of the consequences and I stay.

Now, if an average old fart dragon (or a biped. Lawless, Oreana, Nords and others quitting brought away people with them just out of pissage at AE / GN for havingmade them go in boredom or annoying of bugs etc.)can bring domino effects to the many he knows, imagine most of the old dragons going away.
Some get the reagents for the guild, many are guild leaders or (like in my case) ina top-crafter position. Many make possible (because now it became an ugly pain in the ar.se) for hatchlings to become adult by summoninghigh bipeds to help.

Now... since they are all more or less tired and demoralized... let's kick them in the face and enjoy the result. So we'll have few ancients and the shard will be safe.

[Pharcellus]

Hasai -> Amen, brother!

Spellbound -> Horizons is a niche game now. The only thing that is keeping it afloat is the goodwill of the diehards and a bunch of transient "Let's try this" newbies. If AE kills the game for a segment of the diehards, they will leave, and they won't look back. That leaves the transients who will rise to power in a few months and then be done with it, moving on to their next "flavor of the month" game. Since the game does not have as big a draw (especially with all the new games out now, and the ones to be released soon), once the diehards are gone, and they have milked the transient cow for all it is worth, what is left? Chapter 7.

Vahrokh -> I am already tired and demoralized after a year of getting kicked in the face as a customer. As such, I think I am about done with it myself. As such I am going to wield the only real power I have over them, which is my monthly contribution to their payroll and company expenses. Then, they can fight that much harder trying to get those new customers some of whom I will have warned away from the game ("bad word of mouth / bad press") from then on out. Ultimately, player support and/or derision has its own dollar value attached. It may not mean much to a MMOG with hundreds of thousands of players, but one with a couple tens of thousands of players (at most) cannot afford resistance. They need all the support they can get, so people like Spellbound already winding up to put their boot print on our tails on the way out the door are insuring that they won't get it.

The question is, will they wake up from this nightmare in time to save the game?

8ball says "outlook hazy..try again".

[Poony666]

Bear one thing in mind from this post im about to make, i mean NO offence to Vahrokh.

I have played online games long enough to have met some really cool people, people who alot of gamers "look up to". Whether it be because they rely on them to get thier goods or just because they are cool to bs with etc.

The same scenario happens in EVERY game, the scenario in which a player does not like a change that is going to be made and states that if it happens they will quit. The moment this person says this, everyone sits there saying "oh please dont quit, it wont be the same" blah blah blah. It even gets to the point when they say that they to will quit if that person leaves the game.

Then the time comes....the player quits dissatisfied with a change in game, all those players who begged the person not too, what do you think they do? Sure some may actually go by what they said and leave also, but the majority stay and move on, whats even more is that if they had the chance to have the items of the player who quit, they'd be first in line.

When it comes down to it, no matter how "godly" a player may seem to be, there is always someone else waiting to jump into thier "position".

Sure i agree one player can make adifference but by the same token certain players areshown to havealot more "power/influence" than they really have. Infact most of the people probably kiss thier asses just because it makes them look good knowing such a "great" player.

In this game and previous games ive played ive met some REALLY cool people, and sure id be sad to see them leave and have been sad to see some leave, but i start playing a game for a reason, to have fun, just because that person is gone does not mean there aren't TONS more people out there to make friends with and carry on playing with.

Sure players may quit depending on the outcome of the ARoP, if they are disspleased thats thier problem and i wish them the best of luck for the future, but there are people coming and most definately going due to MANY aspects of the game all the time. The only reason this is any different is because its on agrander scale.

As far as it all goes, i am looking forward to seeing the ARoP on the live servers, and im sure they will do a good job with it, just remember one thing...you cant please everyone. But anything is better than nothing right?

[Vahrokh]

I am not thinking I am godly. Just useful. People won't get pissed (maybe some will be) because of my nice snout, but because they'll lose just another complete crafter.
The effect is augmented in a non linear manner if more than one quit. Remove half the top dragon players and you'll get headless guilds, stuck people etc. with no other to ask to.
In the end the general atmosphere deteriorates a bit, people become a bit more angry and so on.
Some will quit. This in say EQ or Wow would be like a pock bursting in a city.
In Hz every player counts. In EU unified shard there are days we are less than when I was in my original shard when things got bad. In non prime time hours it happens more and more often that I am the only dragon on of the second dragon chat of my shard or have at best another afk member, sometimes two.

The numerous people organizing "quit events" in the beginning have been even fun (i.e. contests where the winner could get some stuff off the quitter).
Lately instead it became a drip of heads. One by one, apparently endless, at first many "nobodies", then increasingly famous people. Now I can grab the entire list of people in market with two screens, at merge it required 6 or 7.

you cant please everyone. But anything is better than nothing right?

For a clear example of anything is better than nothing, see adult RoP.

It's really, really little better than nothing.

Expecially because if the game would have delivered the promised features, we'd have the possibility to grow and after a certain point fly automatically (do you remember?) without any RoP, since flight is our racial ability that no other race has to earn but ours.

Instead we first got a pathetic placeholder of a badly grown chicken whose graphics get skewed when we grow and lose the color of horns, fangs, teeth etc.

In a very "graphic fluff oriented race" we got bad texturing, bad coloring as told above, no spell graphics nor sound except for one so precisely copied (the repeater) that the fire that grows around our body has the same height of the biped original, badly recorded and few and almost non hearable roars, almost non existant or blatantly stupid emotes, no ding up sound, no crafting sound, no melee sound... => feeling of being (and for developer admission we are) a last minute throw in.

Then we got quests we would complete before they were written by months. Now a year.
Then an adult RoP where to somehow slap some lore together we got weird things like non growing any more dragons (so how we hatched and grew?) that need to kill some alien mind lasher (you won't find those roleplay throw ins anywhere else in the lore) requiring for our very growth a possibly huge help from extraneous bipeds.
The flight we would have had at game release became suddenly a sought in main asset to "sell" us like it was the best thing ever. Instead it is like buying a car and two days later getting a special offer to buy with a discount the seats that for lack of materials were not mounted in the car already.
And being it the thing sold to us, it of course became the only thing we'd get plus some random useless fluff that in power goes against any common sense idea of "passage to adult". It's more a "pay for your innate ability you should have already and upgrade hatchling => full hatchling).

So, in the end, yes, anything is better than nothing.
+20 fire resistance and +20 ice resistance will be better than nothing.

Is it what you waited a gimped year for?
While most of your friends left the game already since October, when content became stale and reasons to play it ended? When even the uber-enthusiasts like Aamer Kahn start posting preoccupied threads? When extra positive people like Ronson one day wake up and... discover that there is no sense even levelling to 100 and quit?

For me the game operationally ended in september, when I stopped levelling because I was already almost capped. Alone in my guild, the only one truly sad of dinging his magic "100". 100 capped levels while I feel I should "level up" or improve at least more 100 to feel comfortable with my groups.
Since that date I am waiting and paying two accounts. For sure I won't be satisfied by an "anything".

Believe me, it's about time that at AE they learn some 101 in making a game worth playing for more than 4 months.
The elusive concepts of fun and reward must be assimilated, expecially for a company with "Entertrainment" in its name.
Else, even if they'll never close their resourceful company, they are of no good to players.

[Blue Hasia]

Is this still the discusstion topic on what david said at the first page? because It doesnt look like it from here. lets stay on topics, we are not trying to convince another player about what you think arop should be like but to david what we think arop shoul be like.

[Pharcellus]

Is this still the discusstion topic on what david said at the first page? because It doesnt look like it from here. lets stay on topics, we are not trying to convince another player about what you think arop should be like but to david what we think arop shoul be like.

Why bother?

Everything that could be an answer to his question was posted long before he even asked it, with full rationale from everyone who bothered to post one. Seeing him post this and ask for the same input that already exists in voluminous quantity and stellar quality in another thread says to me "Here's what we are going to do; tell us whatever you think, but we're going to do it anyway".

It's just a retread thread. Nothing more or less.

[Jaraiden]

Ahh, yes, back on topic - "Become an Ancient Helian" or "Become an Ancient Lunus".

Level 90 in either craft or adventure

There seems to be a misconception that just because someone can receive a quest means that they will be able to complete a quest. I've listed the requirements to receive the quest. I believe any Dragon attempting the Ancient Rite of Passage with ONLY the minimum requirements to receive the quest will die. But they will be able to see what they need to be able to overcome the challenge.

It should be level 100 in either, but matters little as the challenges willneed the extra 10 levels to make up for the missing abilities from ability quests that have not been completed to level90 or 100 (moststopped at level 70,Breath accuracy at 40). Besides, many dragon ability quests can be received at the minimum level, but cannot be completed without a biped and/or dragon group or being a higher level.

Also, to be consistent, dragons will be crafting another mirror and statue (Travertine vs. Obsidian, Marble vs. Granite) and phylactery. So high crafting levels will be required anyway for these or other materials.

(Parts of the quest are not accessible by bipeds, so biped assistance will not be available.)

Why not make it dragon only? A dragon community eventby your own words for a hatchling's Rite of Passage to adulthood would be nice to see for adults seeking to be Ancient. Really, do you continue to want dragons to depend on the overwhelming might (fighting and healing) of bipeds? Such reliance really taints the efforts of the dragon race to thrive and counters lore. From relying on bipeds to pass theKill X quests of the hatchling's "Become a True Lunus/Helian, buffs andusing their machines to craft more efficiently, to attending their auctions to buy formulas and techniques, to grouping to enjoy tier V content, . . .

How much more do you want the dragon raceto rely on theother living races?

100 days since creation

I've heard that 100 days is too few for some of you. Some have even proposed specific numbers. Please share your reasoning behind any proposed time lengths so we can take that into account as we continue to develop the ARoP.

By your own words it should be at least 230 days. Listen to the dragon players that have (and will) continue to support Horizons - 365 days is better.

Check the dragon character files. How many sleeper dragons are there that have been created long ago, but not played. Really, you want a sudden rush of hatchlings or adults to be powerleveled and/or powerhoarded to and through adult levels? Then sleep more (if needed)for that 100 days as they play a biped character (and possibly mule over to their dragon character). Then start the quests to become Ancient?

Leveling is so much easier due to tropies and experience leaching. So crafting and building hoard takes time, but players can easily get around those due to game mechanics. Already, I'm seeing hatchlings with marble tools in their hoard. It will only get more prevelantto feed player desires to meet adult and Ancient requirements faster.

Adult Rite of Passage complete

Uhhh, makes sense. As you know, it is mainly a time sink since bipeds can power a hatchling to and through the tasks. It sickens me (and it should you) to see hatchlings on the Lunus pathrelying SO much on biped might to finish them so they get (not earn) their wings to fly. Helians to a lessor degree (but Lunus tasks are easier than Helian).However players are taking advantage of AE's game mechanicsand thus we see many level 30 adult dragons knowing full well they were mostly ineffective in fighting for their own ability to attain adulthood.

We are all excited by what we've discussed today, and after we've done our next review we'll let you know more of the details.

I'm interested in discussion, that is why I posted here.

What is your feedback on the numerous posts in related topics that you and/or your staff did read? Why is that not evident in the "requirements" you posted?

What are the in game playing time requirements? Certainly you want the player to enjoy playing their hatchling and also enjoy playing their adult dragon. To fight effectively as a dragon, not as a pet of bipeds (relying on biped buffs all the time). At least 50 days should be considered.

What are the hoard requirements? Level 90? To be consistent as a hatchling needs level 30 hoard for that Rite of Passage? However, with the current challenge AE has in providing hoard drops for the Lunus dragons, it should be closer to what others have posted, around 10 million.

Just to re-emphasize. Make this a dragon only series of quests. Make sure the reward matches the player's effort (in gaining adventure levels with unfinished abilities, crafting levels with no scaleforge in the field, hoard with insufficient drops and mindless hoardcrafting, and completing the quest to become Ancient mostly solo and/or with fellow dragons. And finish the race so adult dragons can have an enjoyable playing experience and not feel a rush to attain Ancient status.

[Dvergar]

Just to re-emphasize. Make this a dragon only series of quests.

Should be pretty easy to create a new island (like Draak), where the arop-quests take place. An island with no bridge or gate, only reachable by flight. Allows dragons to work together on the quests, but keeps the bipeds out.

[Sharduk]

I pretty much agree with Fireclaw and Kuma.

Long time from creation, preferably 1 yr. High in game requirement, like 30 days played from adult and/or 100 days played total. High HV , like 15M or therabouts. All training quest completed to the highest level available. The Arop must be toughest quest imaginable. If everyone doesnt complain about how hard it is , then it wont be hard enough.

I have almost a year since creation, have about 120 days played, have all avail quests done , have a hv of 6M, was the first 100 adv and first 100/100 on bounty. I say this not to flatter my ego, but to qualify my next statement.

I have been in virtual limbo for the last 5 months, patiently waiting for trainer quest to get added, watching multi class bi peds solowipe outMobs that i could not even dream of fighting, and dreaming of the AROP.

If the AROP turns out to be a cheap, readily obtainable quest with a piddly reward, then I'm afraid I too will join others on this post in leaving Horizons.

Sharduk

[Marco]

Believe me, it's about time that at AE they learn some 101 in making a game worth playing for more than 4 months.
The elusive concepts of fun and reward must be assimilated, expecially for a company with "Entertrainment" in its name.
Else, even if they'll never close their resourceful company, they are of no good to players.

Totally agree there. I'm tired of waiting for something useful to do, a group role (blocking the view does not count), content... Not counting pawning gems as fun, but at the moment it's the funniest thing to do. If they screw this up now I do not intend to give them any more money to take care of issues that should have been done in beta, more than one year ago.

Do anyone know of some other game with playable dragons, or one that could be easily modiefed?

[Poony666]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Vahrokh wrote:
Believe me, it's about time that at AE they learn some 101 in making a game worth playing for more than 4 months.
The elusive concepts of fun and reward must be assimilated, expecially for a company with "Entertrainment" in its name.
Else, even if they'll never close their resourceful company, they are of no good to players.

If the game isnt worth playing why the hell are you still playing?

Anyway i can see this going off topic, lets try get back on topic here, we dont want to get a thread locked when it is quite obviously something thast important to alot of people.

Another idea for the ARoP hoard would be to totally force dragons to craft/adv for thier own hoard, have a section of the Quest where they cannot trade with others, cannot access silos/storage structures, basically prevent them from doing anything that would enable them to get aide by other means. Ofcourse there is the argument that its not fair because adv'ing for hoard sucks and crafting hoard is boring. HOWEVER in my opinion it would show alot more commitment to have to obtain a certain amount of hoard TOTALLY by yourself.

Im sure alot will hate this idea though because it would mean actually having to do something for yourself! *shock, gasp*

Iwould imagine the implementation process may be too far along to add things like this anyway? Doesnt hurt to share thoughts tho eh.

[ThunderZtorm]

Firstly: I am no dragon and I don't intend to play one (at least not soon).

I do believe, however, than an ancient dragon should have the killing ability corresponding to at least a rating 150 biped - if not even higher than that, considering the coming level cap increase. In all fantasy lore I've read, played and tossed dice in, dragons are the ultimate sign of power and strenght.

AE, fear not for bipeds whining about "overpowered" dragons if you make them awesome.They deserve that power, especially since they've been gimps for so long.


Regarding the ancient RoP:

200 days since creation minimum, preferably a year.
100/100 level req - there are already several of those on the shards.
If 200 days min: 50 days ingame - if a year, 80 days ingame.
Hoard I do not know - but I'd say there should be some req.
No bipeds allowed in any critical part of the RoP.


"But those reqs will scare off the casual gamer" YES, and that is a GOOD thing. Ancients dragonhood is NOT for the "casual gamer". It is for the hardcore dragon players, and noone else.
Is 4 lvl 100's on a biped "for the casual gamer"? No. Is 4x100 craftlevels for the casual gamer? No.
The ones saying this need to understand that a game has to cater for both types of gamer - there has to be things that are almost unachievable unless you "do the time" - ancient dragonhood should be one of those - the, maybe, coming school epic quests should be on that list as well, but that's a completely different topic.

If I ever start a dragon and I'm able to casual game it to ancient in 100 days I would be greatly dissapointed.


Please - make the ancient RoP hard as hell, and make the rewards so powerful that the, hopefully few, ancient dragons will be looked upon in awe by all other players. Do NOT make it so it feels the same as a bipeds third lvl 100.


Just my 5 cents about a race I've never played.