Multiple enemy bonus...

[Fhrain]

I think its time someone disscused this issue. Alot of players are lving fast, as i see it there are 2 main reasons:
1) We dont have anything better to do, the game has shifted from focus on community and events to pure lving, its all about getting the next one and fast.

2) Why do ppl lvl so ******** fast? Multiple enemy bonus + fast spawning easy mobs. A week ago i knocked in 42k xp.....for one mob. That was at rating 164. Something is obviously wrong imo. The game itself changed and suddenly focused on heals and AoE damage with the multiple enemy bonus and for a time it was relativly good. But with the new lvl 120 mobs that are easier than marrows in some cases thing have turned in a direction i dont like myself


So my question to all you players: Am i the only person who thinks this is wrong, if not, what ideas do you have to solv/better this issue.

[Stranyr]

Problem, yes, how do deal with it? A really tough one.

I think the easiest way to deal with it would be to give a multiple attacker bonus as well. (being attacked by multiple enemies gives them an adujustment on their to hit bonus) not alot, since that would totaly screw adventurers that get mobbed, but say +10 or +15/mob beyond the 3rd or 4th. Pull 20 mobs and suddenly they have a bonus of 170 or 255 to hit. will make it Much more unlikey for you to dodge/block/parry. and much more likely that they will kill you. With 20 or so mobs hitting you suddenly the healer is going to find that (s)he needs 2 or three other healers just to keep up with the damage being dealt to the bomber.

[gusi]

You asked for 'Adventurer' input. I, as a 'crafter', do not feel as if I should be excluded because of my choice of gameplay, andfun.

Now, back to the point.

I'd suggest to make the multiple enemy bonus limited to double, and only double, of the expthat one would acquire from a mob. i.e. Player X of rating 130 acquires Y exp from a lvl 100 mob, Z. Player X takes on 20 Z's and acquires 2Y exp from each Z. PlayerX takes on 50 Z's and acquires 2Y exp from each Z.

Alternatively, make the multi-enemy multiplier halve, or third. i.e. (same variables as before) Player X gets 10k exp from Z and thenPlayer X gets 11k each from 2Z under the current system, thus making the multi-enemy multiplier x1.1 for eachZ (Note: Very innaccurate figures, just trying to explain my point).

With a half or third of the current multi-enemysystem,Player X would acquire only 21k or 20.66k total exp respectively, compared to 22k exp, upon killing 2Z simultaneously.

The reason I say 'simultaneously' is because when an enemy adds on, you will find that if it added on at the beginning of the battle, you will get a 'full' amount of the multi-enemy exp., whereas, if it added near the end of the battle, you will only get 'partial' amounts of the multi-enemy exp.

[Anikitos]

I would say throw in a couple of lvl 120 Vexators together with the gimped-mobs...
We got flies, fyiakkis, tarantulas there...put in the same ammount of vexators.

So a big pull would allways consist of 30% vexators...problem solved.

You could also put a rating lock on the portals, would work too.



Anikitos

[Fhrain]

You asked for 'Adventurer' input. I, as a 'crafter', do not feel as if I should be excluded because of my choice of gameplay, andfun.

Of cource not, my bad[:)]

And i do like your ideas, would be interesting to see how much they would affect xp ingame as i do not know how the current multiple enemy system calculates...

[Jaraiden]

So my question to all you adventurers: Am i the only person who thinks this is wrong, if not, what ideas do you have to solv/better this issue.

Yes, the XP bonus from multiple monsters is too high. It has been stated in many posts. It has been largely ignored by AE.

By the game mechanics, AE encourages rapid leveling in adventure and crafting classes (well for the most part, no Scaleforges + 25/+50 near smelters/stoneworking except for tier IV Obsidian).

I think the easiest way to deal with it would be to give a multiple attacker bonus as well.

No, just give them a coordinated bonus attack. What is more proper, though is to give all monsters a constant ability that penalizes the character's evasion/parry/block (would have to be some sort of check, as in the more monsters the higher the penalty). Sort of like you attack bonus. That, and, of course, remove the effect of the shield on the character's armor (that shield cannot be in all places at once - a large shield for 3 attacks, medium for 2, small for 1).

Yes, the character should be at a disadvantage from multiple monsters. Just a realistic aspect of combat. Until there is something added, players will seek the best XP/effort and (usually) find a balance between multiple monsters at a managable level (likely 20 or so levels below their rating).

[Korial]

Multiple Enemy Bonus only needs to consider up to 10 mobs at once as a maximum. Any 'normal' hunting should hardly ever hit that limit, and thus it preserves the added bonus of risking a few extra mobs for that extra xp, but it properly limits the mass gathering and slaughtering of mobs.

I pointed out the completely broken nature of the Multiple Enemy Bonus quite a while ago over IRC, when I could quite happily slaughter 30 or more T3 mobs at once, whilst they hit back for 20 dmg max (if they actually hit).

[gopher65]

I agree that the bonus is too high as is.

One note however: Block and Parry ONLY WORK AGAINST ONE MOB in the current system, and evasion does practically nothing against same lvl mobs. So giving the mobs 'more attack skill/#of mobs'will solve nothing.

The two most logical of the above solutions are to only allow double the normal XP on any mob (similar to the current system of max group XP allowed based on lvl), and limiting the number of mobs that can give multiple enemy bonus.

I believe both of these two solutions should be applied together, as no normal hunt would reach these limits.

[Kulamata]

I've been dreading this thread. Someone was bound to get indignant, and form a posse. And if past history is any guide, there will be a horrific over-reaction by AE, ill conceived and heavy handed.

Remember, these people broke stuff that didn't need fixing; and the reaction to the HV exploit (for one example) was crude and extreme.

I think inviting the rhinocerous to the party is a very bad mistake. And if a huge change is made, how many people will stay because of that? None. How many will leave? Dunno, but surely some.

[Fhrain]

I've been dreading this thread. Someone was bound to get indignant, and form a posse. And if past history is any guide, there will be a horrific over-reaction by AE, ill conceived and heavy handed.

Remember, these people broke stuff that didn't need fixing; and the reaction to the HV exploit (for one example) was crude and extreme.

I think inviting the rhinocerous to the party is a very bad mistake. And if a huge change is made, how many people will stay because of that? None. How many will leave? Dunno, but surely some.

When the Multiple enemy bonus was introduced it was a good idea that promoted grouping which hadnt really been a factor in Hz before it imo.And it worked well against marrows which were the mobs in those days, heck it even worked out rather nicly in CS.
The problem is mainly these new elnath mobs and several lvl 120 mobs that spawn insainly and are to easy to route up and nuke down. Imo this isa problem that needs to be payed attention to. When? I dont know, there are other issues that also needs the devs time, but i certainly hope they will consider something sooner or later...

[Vesuvius]

I think the system works fine the way it is.

[MMAI_ice]

I don't see any problem at all really. There is no balance neededbetween different classes,with no pvp, arena or alike. Does it matter if people have 1 adventure class lvl 100 or 20?
If they choose to do so, i would say let them.

[Sajid]

I completely agree with Kulamata.

[Aquarius]

When the Multiple enemy bonus was introduced it was a good idea that promoted grouping which hadnt really been a factor in Hz before it imo.And it worked well against marrows which were the mobs in those days, heck it even worked out rather nicly in CS.
The problem is mainly these new elnath mobs and several lvl 120 mobs that spawn insainly and are to easy to route up and nuke down. Imo this isa problem that needs to be payed attention to. When? I dont know, there are other issues that also needs the devs time, but i certainly hope they will consider something sooner or later...

You thought marrows was harder then these lvl 120 mobs.. nah dont think so ive got screenshots with fights of 15 marrows.. think we where 3 or 4 in group then.

But maybe there could be some other mobs that presents more difficulty in the areas where the fyakkies are.. there could be high lvl Wraiths in the same area (archer, mage, warrior). And there could be poison stinger or some ability added to fyakki.

[Fhrain]

Go fight a lvl 120 necrofly and you will see my point[:)]

[Safire]

I think the system works fine the way it is.

i compleately agree multiple enimy bonusess are designed for soloing kill that you kill any non-group hunting and that would be uncool but you guys are sitting back and complaining about people PLing up most of the people ive seen fly up in levels did it soloing i knew a great example if he still played he got 80 bloodmage, healer, druid, not sure what his mae was but i think it was at least 30 or 40 something cleric i think is 30 somethingby PLing himself in a matter of mounths point is its not only groups that get people up there there might still be a few powergamers joining Hz (i remmber when i started playing and i saw there was allready a level 80 and game waslive for what 2-3 weeks...some people just dont sleep

furthermore i've seen a group of4 or 5 100's someone in there 90's and an 80 somethingdragon and me (also a few more people but im not exactally sure of levels atm)almost get entirely wiped out by a green vexator....also do thoose things actually die?

[gusi]

I think the system works fine the way it is.

This is true.

For WA mobsonly.

Been to Elnath, the Fire Isle and/or the EDlately?



Perhaps even resulting to multi-enemy exp based off difficulty of mobs is in need of play. I mean, who's vs'd a Purple Spider and a Blue Vexator, and can honestly tell me that the Blue Vexatorwas easier. Maybe 4 or 5 Spiders would be of more reasoning.

[Gwynnifer ApHelion]

I fully agree with Kulamata. Any change will be over-the-top and cause an exodus from the game.

__________________
Gwynnifer ApHelion
77 Healer, 36 Spiritist
49 Weaver, 23 Tailor, 25 Miner
Etc.

[Safire]

I've been dreading this thread. Someone was bound to get indignant, and form a posse. And if past history is any guide, there will be a horrific over-reaction by AE, ill conceived and heavy handed.

Remember, these people broke stuff that didn't need fixing; and the reaction to the HV exploit (for one example) was crude and extreme.

I think inviting the rhinocerous to the party is a very bad mistake. And if a huge change is made, how many people will stay because of that? None. How many will leave? Dunno, but surely some.

oppse i missed reading this earlyer and now that i see this as well i agree totally i too have been dreading this thread

[Fhrain]

So non of you see anything wrong in getting 42k xpfor a single mobat rating 164? Well then its my bad i guess...