Feedback on Changes to Multiple Enemy Experiance

[Machivelli]

So far so good imo. Didn't see a drastic change in XP when a guildie and I took on 18 Giant Ice Beetles. Maybe we lost a little XP, but if we did it was minimal as far as I am concerned. Did have one of my guildies complain that he wasn't getting XP from the lvl 50 mobs up in the northern blight anymore. Granted he?s a rating 104, why he would ever get XP from them in the first place is a mystery to me. I don't care if you take on 1 or 20, they are half your rating, if you get any XP it should be below 100. He was getting 2k each for a pull of 15 prior.

All in all I like this change. Way to many high level players running around that have no clue as how to fight. Honestly if I have to tell a lvl 90 healer about his/her multiple IH Abilities, something is wrong, very wrong.

To the risk vs. reward thread earlier that said pulling 10 mobs is the same XP as pulling 20 mobs. You are kidding right? No where did they say they cap the "Overall" XP you get, just the XP you get from each Mob. And at twice the XP, that is still pretty healthy for those that can aggro a ton of mobs. That was the first thing a guildie and I tested last night with the Giant Ice Beetles as I mentioned above. Got good XP for thosehe and I both (rating 90 and 120 respectively), so having a hard time seeing why anyone other then those who wanted to go from 1-100 in 3 weeks of leeching XP would be truly upset with this change.

[Seikojin]

:o
I have to agree here that the new multimob calc wont bother anyone who can solo multimobs because they dont pose that much of a threat to you (or else you wouldnt fight many at a time).

And like mentioned earlier, someone got 2800, 1400 of which was from multimonster... That isnt even in the limit. the limit for that would be 4200 per kill (1400 for the monster and +2800 (double the monsters value)more for multimonster)... I dont see the problem whatsoever.

Heh you know what might have made it easier on you all, is if they didnt post about it... But I guess they want to keep us informed...

And for those talking about irc... Doesnt have much to do with this topic... please stick to the topic...

[Gunnyr]

Dude - get a clue. They are saying that the amount of XP you get per kill will be capped. They are NOT saying that you won't get XP for a kill. How about you understand the situation before you start ranting? Better yet - if the game is so 'broken' why don't you go play another game and give us all some peace.

AZV

Well if you haven't seen my other threads on the devs lack of Priorities maybe you should be the one who needs to get a clue ;).

We have tons of "GAME-BREAKING" bugs that need to be fixed and instead we get nerfs to the game which will only drive away more players whether you'd like to admit it to yourself or not. It will happen just as it has in the past.

As I've said many times before the problem with this game at the moment is due to the devs lack of direction they can't keep most new/returning players in this game due to all the unfixed bugs. If they leave the game mechanics alone for the moment and fix all the bugs then they'll most likely be able to keep most of the frustrated players or new ones who log in to see a majorly uncomplete game only to quit around. A nerf is the LAST issue in a HUGE list of priorities.

When it takes 7 days to get a trouble ticket answered with "those are known issues we're actively working on" and bugs from first month of release (that took months to fix; i.e. combat lock up bug) returning, there is definitely something wrong.

Do you understand the situation that Order has roughly 200 active players a day compared to 600+ pre-merge? Before all the changes?

Calling for nerfs will always drive away players not draw in new ones and with this size playerbase every account is needed or there won't BE a game.

As far as the game being broken, I'd suggest you go read the goodbye posts here, the bug forum and the rant forum and then comment. I've played here for a year now and have many friends and guildmates here, and will say flat out that the adventuring here is broken and flat out sucks...as for the crafting...that's another story...that and my friends are what keep me in game.

[padishar]

[img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-3.gif[/img]
And like mentioned earlier, someone got 2800, 1400 of which was from multimonster... That isnt even in the limit. the limit for that would be 4200 per kill (1400 for the monster and +2800 (double the monsters value)more for multimonster)... I dont see the problem whatsoever.

No, that is the limit. The total xp won't exceed X2 of what the original xp was.
So if you get 9000xp for the kill, 4500 is from multiple. I checked it several times and the multiple bonus is always half of what I got.

[Jah]

Odd responses... who ever said this 'fix' was done to prevent leeching? Certainly not AE:

combat groups and higher-level players assisting lower level players will always be an important social part of Horizons

In fact leeching has not been changed one bit. If a rateing 100 and r.10 grouped and the r.100 killed a lv100 Fyakki the xp gained by the r.10 is the same now as it was last month. Leeching works exactally as it did before. Since the bonus is given to all on an individual basis and not shared as the base xp/kill is...technically it was never 'leeched' though it is essentialy the same thing.

What was changed is a bonus that was intended to:

reward the stamina and skill of the adventurer.., [the original intent of multiple enemy bonus]

...and what it does do islimit powerleveling at all levels.

What was fixed [nerfed if you feel that way]:
1) Thehigh player / lowplayer grouping fix to the multi-attacker bonus[ or leeching nerf if you must ]. This aspect of the bonus was bugged/broken and giveing low rateing players their M.A. bonus based upon a higher rateingteammate. Since players that are not able to bea substantial factorin the outcome of the battle don't deserve a difficulty bonus for something they didn't do; they simply stopped giveing out the bonus at [ PlayerR.< (MobR.-20) ]. While I think that may be a bit tight, that isdue to consideration of certain classes/players that can be helpfull further from level than most. I would have gone with [ PlayerR.< (MobR.-30) ] but there are far too many variables for any setting to be fair to all.

2)The 2x XP capwas placed in order to"preserve [restore]the original intent of multiple enemy bonus, which allowed us to reward the stamina and skill of the adventurer". If a player can kill 10..20..30 of"xxx" at the same time then quite obviously that spawn is not very difficult for them and they are hardly deserveing of a 10x...20x... XP difficulty bonus. End result is if you can handle enough agro to surpass the 2x bonus..try something harder. If you can take on enough eilte WA to surpass the 2x bonus then you aresimply uber and perhaps should start looking for followers to worship you. ;)

While both of these adjustment could have been done with more flexabilty / allowances; that would have just left it open for players to find another loophole to exploit. Since that was the problem in the 1st place useingflat limiters as they didensures that there little chance of it happening again.

[Deth]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Seikojin wrote: [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-3.gif[/img]
And like mentioned earlier, someone got 2800, 1400 of which was from multimonster... That isnt even in the limit. the limit for that would be 4200 per kill (1400 for the monster and +2800 (double the monsters value)more for multimonster)... I dont see the problem whatsoever.


No, that is the limit. The total xp won't exceed X2 of what the original xp was.
So if you get 9000xp for the kill, 4500 is from multiple. I checked it several times and the multiple bonus is always half of what I got.

What I think is confusing people is that the 2800 (1400 from mutliple) means is that you recieved 1400 for killing the mob and 1400 from the extra mobs. Not a total of 4200 total. The xp in () is already added to the first total listed. At least thats I how I think it is working.

[padishar]

What I think is confusing people is that the 2800 (1400 from mutliple) means is that you recieved 1400 for killing the mob and 1400 from the extra mobs. Not a total of 4200 total. The xp in () is already added to the first total listed. At least thats I how I think it is working.

yea, thats true.

[BKBanzai]

This is horrible.

And I think also the bonuses are not working correctly, because as high member in group, pulling a large group, I get between 2000 and under 7000 per kill. I should see a large consistent group with maximum experience at the first kills through middle, tapering down toward the last few kills, but this is not happening.

Plus, seems also like I pull the same numbers of mobs (roughly) and pull from pull, the numbers vary.

Oh...and as far as being solo and seeing almost little difference?

hahahahahahaha

lies....

p.s. This sucks.

[Vlisson]

hmm will this patch go live?

i hate the fast leeching option and hope this change will repair something!!!

[Phillip]

my experience so far:

1) leeching is still very much alive and well. this do not change much if any thing at all.

2) those non leeching, high level, high rating, grouping with those of same/similar levels & ratings, take a huge hit on XP gained accross the board.

3) soloing is now the way to go.

[Jah]

Vlisson
This is live already.

And I think also the bonuses are not working correctly, because as high member in group, pulling a large group, I get between 2000 and under 7000 per kill. I should see a large consistent group with maximum experience at the first kills through middle, tapering down toward the last few kills, but this is not happening.

Plus, seems also like I pull the same numbers of mobs (roughly) and pull from pull, the numbers vary.

You don't understand how xp works:
1) As highest rateing in group you are alloted the largest amount of share from base kill xp. What you are failing to account for is that [ I assume ] your rateing is far above that of the mob you killed [ prob 50+ over ]. This lowers your xp gain by far more than haveing highest rateing in group adds to it by increaseing your share. I had noticed at Elnath before that a player with 150+ rateing got 30% less than I [110] and I got a little less than a player with rateing that matches the mobs [80-90]. As this is all accounted for before multi bonus; it's not the bonus thats a problem, it's your rateing.
2) Useing MC AoE to kill them you essentially kill large numbers at the same time. This keeps all those killed within the same aoe at the same bonus range. That is even kept for a short time after and another player casting aoe right after usually got full bonus as well. The numbers should and always did vary alot due to 20 level variance on mobs.

Oh...and as far as being solo and seeing almost little difference?

hahahahahahaha

lies....

p.s. This sucks.

You need to read more carefully. What you claim as a lie was never said by AE. What was said is "This change will seldom affect players who ?solo? multiple monsters.". That claim is in fact true as the only combat style that is affected is the round-up and M-C AoE method. Most players can not do that solo. What is greatly affected by this are the lame round-up MC AoE and repeat groups as well as players with huge rateings that only got there by useing said method.
What sucks? That you can no longer abuse this loophole in the game and rateing now has a real affect on you?[8-)]

[Seikojin]

:o I really don't think anyone should be on a nay saying side...

mulitmob exp cap = slower level progression

slower level progression = more time spent in game

slower level progression = more loot

more time spent in game = more time being with friends or chatting/grouping

I dont see what everyones rush is... I mean the more you play the game, the more fun you CAN have (not having fun is up to you).

And about the total exp, yeah the number on the left is the sum of all variables. The number in the (is just there to let ya know how much of the sum is from multimob). Oh well time to go work on having fun :)

[Flin]

Wait a minute Jah.

If I read what you have written correctly you are telling me that because I can take my High Level Shaman into a group of level 75 to 90 mobs,, usually about 6 to 9 of them, and waste the whole group solo without getting killed that I should not be able to get the full XP that I can, simpy because I have figured out how to do it with my AoE spells? By the way this is not a safe way to do it, got 3 deathpoints yesterday doing it, also I rarely use the M-C method because I just don't want to wait till it is up.. I kill from the time I get there till the time I am either killed or leave.

I pay my monthly fee just as the rest of you do, why should I have to get nerfed just because a vocal minority put up a loud gripe front?

I don't feel I was using a loophole when the game was designed this way. I also don't feel this is an exploit.

However, if the Dev's want to change the XP so that any solo player who pulls and kills multiple mobs loses the same amount of XP that I do I won't say a word.

[Phillip]

"However, if the Dev's want to change the XP so that any solo player who pulls and kills multiple mobs loses the same amount of XP that I do I won't say a word."

you hitting a sensitive spot here.

[Vlisson]

hmm so no anti leeching change?

:( hmpf i hoped leeching would greatly decrease because of this change

[Flin]

Why should that be a sensitive spot Phillip? Does that mean that you don't believe everyone should have a level playing field in this game when it comes to XP?

[Seikojin]

:o
Flin, Everyone does... Now.

The devs said that there was an issue where the multimob exp for lower levelled players was being based off the higher level players kill...

Example:
Lvl100 kills 5 lvl 100 mobs.
The lvl 100 say gets 6000 (2000 from multimonster) exp for each kill

His group members are say lvl 20's.
Each get 3000 (2000 from multimonster) exp for each kill

When it should have been:
Lvl100 kills 5 lvl 100 mobs.
The lvl 100 say gets 6000 (2000 from multimonster) exp for each kill

His group members are say lvl 20's.
Each get1500 (500 from multimonster) exp for each kill


So now its fixed so that not only does the farming of high end mobs take longer for the multiclass soloist (please see my previous post), but also the low end players would have to sit there much much longer to level as they get the cap at a proportional lowered amount (again refers to previous post)...

This isn't a end all fix for Pling... But it is a step in the right direction... I think the way exp is calculated for a group needs a cutoff if members are X levels under the highest level member... And it should have a dialog telling you so. This way if someone goes to group with someone they arent going to get exp with, they know beforehand and can correct the problem (also the dialog box should have a "dont show this to me again" checkbox)...

I remmber the cutoff idea was posted in the i wish thread sometime ago...

[Senkeleron Fell]

It wasn't 'designed' this way, in fact, originally there wasn't a multimob
bonus at all. Didn't matter how many you fought at one time, the exp
was the same as if you fought each mob individually. The devsaltered it,
have found that the alteration does not produce the effect that they want,
and now they are trying to correct it.

So if you want it the way it was 'designed', then we go back to no
multimob exp bonus at all.

Keep whining and they might drop it altogether.

[Phillip]

"Why should that be a sensitive spot Phillip? Does that mean that you don't believe everyone should have a level playing field in this game when it comes to XP?"

i believe it for sure, however it's a sensitive spot since soloing and the XPs gained from long ago angered the group-r-us kids, and was the reason why they changed it to the XPs bonus system but it enhanced leeching instead. now back to soloing as most lucrative.

Sei, leeching hasn't been fixed.

[Letum]

Honestly, Ive seen nothing but good come from this change. The people who complain are ones who do not earn their levels I believe, and some who would just like it to be easyer, but for the adventurer who likes to learn his/her playstyle and fully enjoy every level, this change has greatly amplified gameplay to a great extent.
Also, I think this will help set apart those of us who will be leveling to 120 in multiple classes. I think prdie would be more established as well as some dignity in the fact that you earn your levels. No more of this multiple pled 100s nonsense. So, overall great change that I totally respect.