Need help to clean up Horizon's general forum on VN boards.

[Sparky]

I suggest just dropping your account there and posting here :)

No need for that, since she was just banned. Forgot to mention that Nescio? Tut, tut.

[HratLi]

Hah... It STILL boggles me that they are/were the 'official' forum I drop by periodically to get a tin-foil hat view of the game. Taz.com was more 'home' than any other boards, Stratics seemed always well run, but quiet as all get out.

-HratLi

[pan]

As the official boards, potential players were directed there, and would encounter negative comments on the game, frequently from incompetent ex-players who had not been able to master the game. (Not that it's that hard.)

yeah you have to be leet to understand horizons and its subtleties. obviously the mob ai, pvp, underwater combat, complex storylines, in-depth rping, etc. make it tough for the non super gamer to adapt.

hey..it is fun to pop over, make a glowing report on horizons....

what would be even funner is if u could honestly and truthfully make a glowing report on horizons. unfortunately that hasnt been possible.

vnhz is not the problem, the sooner you start pointing the fingers in the right direction the sooner horizons problems will really get solved.

[Tryagain]

As the official boards, potential players were directed there, and would encounter negative comments on the game, frequently from incompetent ex-players who had not been able to master the game. (Not that it's that hard.)

hate to break it to ya. But your line of logic is flawed. I'm just going to have to shoot it full of holes. Not that its going to be hard.

People quit MMO's for 3 reasons

1) That it is boring and they got to the end game fast( this can happen due to lack of content). Or that the grind was unbearable

2) The game is poorly developed and supported and full of bugs. Usually has performance problems

3) the genre and style of the game does not suit what they like.

Rarely if ever does anyone quit because they could not master the game. In fact Horizons needs all of a few days to be mastered. One crafting level is the same as the next and so are the adventuring levels.In Horizons case people quite for both reasons 1 and 2 in masse. Not because they could not master the game. There is nothing to master.

Of course there are other reasons like the developer themselves. Has been said many times before its AE's own fault for the current state of the game and its various boards. It was always in their power to make sure that the Vault boards stayed the fanboi haven it had once been.

I could shoot the rest of your post down but I figure whats the point.

[Darkendcrusader]

Hey, I am Darkendcrusader... Assistant Manager at Horizonsvault (for 2 years).

I would like to remind you that the success of Horizonsvault is directly tied to the success of Horizons, hence we are a bit short handed now. It seems that much of are staff has left, including moderators. Now everyone at Horizonsvault is a volunteer, we do not get paid nor do we get benefits, we do it because we love the game... problem is exactly that... not many people love this game. We can't exactly have moderators running the forums if no one wants to be one... right? If you think you could do a great job cleaning up, sign up for it =D. We have many spots open that I am sure you could fill.

As for the site itself, we suffer from the same problems as the forums... we are understaffed. Right now we have 4, maybe5 people working on the site... but our database manager is AWOL so no new content could be posted and AE stopped sending us messages filled with news... so it is really hard to get any.

Its pretty depressing when people, like you guys, insult the very who try their damnest to make the site better... We really do this all for you, not for ourselves... So please guys, show a little respect and if you REALLY want to help clean up the HZ boards, sign up to be a moderator... otherwise please lay off us, we try as hard as we can.

Jared "Darkendcrusader" Gabel
Assistant Manager, Horizonsvault
(This post reflects only my opinion, and not the opinion of IGN or HZV staff members)

[Berelain]

I Mod that board, but I don't post negatively about the game.

We do give out warnings and bannings for trolling and Dev bashing, but not like they do here. [:)]

I have personally seen threads get heated there and then everyone start to appologize to each other and try to be civil.

Anyone can point out specific examples on both sides, but for the most part everyone who posts there tries tobe civil. [;)]

I am more then willing to hear anyone's comments about any thread on VN. I also encourage people to PM me if a thread gets out of control or trollish.

[Zarcharien]

Welcome Darken .. oh and now you too Berelain :), you bothmake some vaild good points and have done a nice job on presenting them.Here is the problem as I see it.

I have posted on the Hz Vn forums for the last several months and hope to return soon when I get more time. The problem is, is a thick line has been allowed to be drawn that completely seperates the players from the ex-players,and neither side is willing to cross at present. Hence, ex-players post there for the most part and current players post here, and I don't see that changing unless moderators and staffon both sidesare really ready to step forward and do their part to allow an atmosphere on the forumsthat promotesfairness towards both players and explayers, and the realization that despite whatever forums people post on (vn or community) those people deserve respect from the other.

To say that Vn and its moderators are fully responsible for what has, and is, taking place on the Vn forums is the result of the Vn moderators is only partially correct at best. The promises that was broken to the players before and afterthe release of a well anticiapted product that was given uncomplete, is where the true damage was done and that damage still lingers today.

However, when I first started posting on the Hz Vn forums, I thought nothingat all of the negative posts and trash bashing going on becuase I thought it must be accepatable practice on these forums, so no biggie. But then, like a dumbass, one day I read the ToS and the forum rules in its entirety. This is when I realized that allot ofwhat was taking place on those boards was in violation of the rules ( I know many posters their that will dispute this, but in my opinion hey are undeniable facts). I even checked many other game sites on Vn to compare moderation, and for the most part I realized that the Hz Vn boards were not being held to the same standard. So admittedly, I contacted a few mods to voice my concern and make sure thatI understood the rules correctly since there was the possibility that I could be wrong, I even sent a few copied and pastedposts for examples. The responses I received in general was something like this in summary - basically, you are correct and we agree, but we have two problems, 1 we are understaffed and 2 if we moderated theHz baords inthe required fashion then they would be deadier then they already are.Then I was referred to apply for a moderator positionfor the Hz Vn boards, but apparently my app suxed because I never heard anything back, but thats ok , I probably was truley not qualified [:'(]. So, I figured o'wellz, its their boards and they have the right to do as they wish despite what I might think and I still believe that, afterallI was only trying to help. SoI continued posting as normal till finally I decided for several reasons it was time for me to leave.

My point is, is the Hz Vnboards are left for the most part lawless were people can do as they will with no consequences to their actions (yes, unlike the proposed nazi moderation here [:O]), unless a big ruxus is made of it.Some of the ex-players that post there do post some vaild arguements, andalthough some trash the game daily I believesome truley care about the gamebelieve or not.As long as moderators and staff on both sides continue to promote this forum atmosphere, then nothing will change, and even then I'm not sure if anything can really be done. So, its not that any of the moderators are bad people, frankly I know them on th both sides to be some really good people, but not enough is being done to promote Hz forums all together in general,that is presented in a welcoming and fair mannerto all posters.

But anyways, if anyone has read this far, I feel sorry for you, just wanted to put in my 2cp's. And yes, I know all my "good buddies" over at the Vn [:P] are watching and will be reading this too [:D].

Zarcharien

[SirFrog]

We have heard the PR spin now for the real version directly from a mod

Uhm.

too bad I read the general boards and the TOS really isn't broken on this board anymore.

a few things.

1. It's a general board and community board, some off-topic posts are allowed.

2. If we removed the conspiracy theories then the board would be empty.

3. I dislike the tazoon bashing threads but see number 2.

4. We don't mod people just because their opinion differs from the company line.

5. We are no longer the official boards, haven't been since they made the forums in istaria.com, so really they can't tell us anything anymore about what our posters are allowed to post. They can comment all they want on the comment form, it will just get ignored if it's excessive. We have mods that read this board and get rid of the rule breakage. :P


-----signature----- Lyndrek Badefir:
Vault Moderator

Phear me for I am LynxMod.
I am not a Dev!

[Tryagain]

its easy to get angry when someone is trashing "your" game.

But it can't be denied that the bed that Horizons the game now sleeps in was made by Artifact Entertainment. It was there actions or lack of actions that have lead to the mess we now have.

I remember just after release HZ VN was a fan's haven and the boards there served as much purpose as the ones at Tazoon. Though I must admit I was perplexed by AE's decision to go away from Tazoon as the official boards. None the less that board at one time was nothing but horizons.

13 months later a new company name later the same stuff still exists. When Tulga Games actually makes progress in turning this game around those boards will clean themselves up. That is just how these things work.

Now its no doubt the board seems to be running somewhat rampant. But if you look past the redicolous "I'm bored" posts and notice the actualy Horizons posts there is not much to counter what is being said against it. What we see in return is a lot of insecurity. If Horizons can't stand on its own merits than all hope is truely lost.

[Darkendcrusader]

We try our best at Horizonsvault, but with what AE and VN give us to work with... it isn't looking good. Problem is, we are missing a important staff member... news is lacking from the AE side... The flow of player provided content has halted (lets face it, Screenshot of the Day... for the last few weeks we posted it... was my screenshots that I said someone sent in). We are really left with very little to do, like Horizons itsself we too have gotten a bad rap.

People think of Horizonsvault as a bash fest, when originally we wanted it to be a place for people to express their opinion freely. This, is still true. The current problem is that people like to cross the line between complaint and b*tch... even when we moderate it, it appears faster then we deleat it and it always looks bad because no one who likes the game posts... making it look like a place for jacka$$s to go... when in reality it is a place for every, its just hard to see that through the complaints.

Jared "Darkendcrusader" Gabel
Assistant Manager, Horizonsvault
(This post reflects only my opinion, and not the opinion of IGN or HZV staff members)

[Rainbow]

Darkendcrusader, I read a couple of other boards besides this one, including Horizons Vault. I do not post on them, but I do read the threads if they look like they may be of interest.

Compared to the other one that I read, Horizons Vault is a walk in the park. There is no bad language on the Vault, unlike the other board. If you read the threads on the Vault with a light heart when it comes to the predictions and crystal ball gazings, there is nothing that is any more evil or sinister than anything that I have ever read on the other forum that is loosely associated with Horizons.

Sure, there is the couple there who I don't think could ever be persuaded to change their opinions about Horizons, AE/Tulga or Mr Bowman, and whilst they may be strong in their references to those opinions, it is not like they are going to be the make or break of this game or the company behind it. They have their reasons for feeling the way that they do and that is no different from some players here whoexpress very strong feelings about certain things.

It would be nice if we could use both boards comfortably, as was possible when we had the Vault and Tazoon.

Rainbow

[Phillip]

After reading a dev's post (Rawdge) on the Rant section, i feel reallybad for them guys.

It isn't that those bashing the game do not have legitimate reasons to, or that their reasons hold no merit. Their reasons are true. It is all there. It doesn't take much intelligence to see such.

It's about being angry of how it all got this way,feeling sorry who for those responsible, and yourself, yet cannot let go.

[Catharsis]

Darkend, your forum is the exclusive property of approximatly three individuals, who, to a one, dislike Hz and anything associated with it. The moderation on the board suports this.

I do appreciate that you have taken the time and initiative to post here - that shows a courage I've yet to see elswhere on your boards. I'm just a little surprised that, given your position, you've taken little time to actually look at your boards and see what's happening.

We're not making this up, obviously. You've got a problem over there, and you have the wherewith all to find out how to fix it. Sadly, you have to come to another board - one which is continually slammed on your boards for excessive moderation - to get a picture of what's happening on your own.

[Berelain]

Feel free to post good stuff about HZ over on VN.

Bashing the posters on VN here won't help. :)

[Peter1968]

And Lepidus will only post your IGN sub info in public like he did on Tazoon anyway...

/smacks self for helping bump an ancient thread.

[Vahrokh]

It's just a simple matter of economics.

I read several boards. Some are not even "focused" on a game, they are just about "talking about something today you feel like to, period".

Analyze the problem (low VN population, or at least far less than it could have, since many who post here won't post on VN and thus let them loose ads based income).

The problem is:

- low overall useability, the look of the VN boards is "so so" (it's generally "known"), the pop ads are / were a pain in the arse, the fact you in the past had to pay to just perform a search bitten. It's the same sort of kind of defects (or "piss factors) non optimal products like Horizons have that will drive people away.
Not that this istaria forum is perfect or bug free, but it's off a freeware app and still looks better, like many other free or payware forums do. And the first look counts for a newcomer exactly like a good tutorial (which Hz did not have) does.

- the VN staff chose to let some "chosen" dominate over the months in that forum and impose their line over anyone else, often with open denigration against pinpointed, selected people (which in real life would lead to a lawsuit).
This, plus a definite lack of overall insight of them about the real, current status of the game (Grimlik is trying to get a "first hand idea" yet I am not sure his vision will be completely untainted since posting anything goodwill possibly alienate the old "boss posters" over there - the reality is harsh about Hz but not like the same old stereothype some keep telling since a year without ever playing a day) makes the site far less useful for those who are in search of strictly game related information (not gossip or perennial accusations; those could even be true but carry no game information but a sort of anathema).

- The VN being understaffed is not caused by something evil, but because the climate is unfriendly enoughthat none wants to bother.Isn't it odd that here we have to litigate on who to become moderator while at VN there's desert? Of course, even in real life if you had to become guardian of some sort of cold viper nest or an admittedly small but warm club of fans that daily post suggestions and ideas (call them even fanbois if you prefer), would you prefer the former or the latter?

The problem with VN is not the game. It was the game (like it had been for even a long time on Tazoon). Then it became the posters, always the few selected group of elite bashers who have nothing better in their life to ******** themselves on a game they hate in some sort of holy crusade against satan ehm David Bowman.
And most of all be downright nasty to other posters, which completely ruins the "community" feeling.
They and not the game ruined the "welcome feeling" on the forum.

A game may be a crappy game. And people will quit it.
But posters can be crappy posters, expecially with moderators closing one, two or five eyes. And people will quit the forum.

Are the VN mods understaffed? Besides their director is to blame to let the situation degenerate enough that mods left, they forgiven too much the splashy flashy bashers (possibly hoping for a short return of clicks due to the rampant polemics and people biting each other that would heaten the traffic) that in the medium term grew old in the eyes of others and now are left alone, shouting their holy truths, like a broken record that skips tracks back to the beginning.

[Catharsis]

Berelain, we're not criticizing the posters at Hz Vault. They're not the problem, they're a symptom. The problem is the moderation over there, which, with the exception of yourself - I do wish your friendly reminder thread had been made a sticky - seriously challenged the entire concept of Hz Vault being a fansite. Take a look at who get's moderated there, and for what. Take a look at which of your posters are the most abusive, and see that they don't get moderated - at all. Your problem children can exist in a vacuum, now can they?

So, please come to Rants Refugees, and perhaps we can all find common ground. We have a good track record of hands-off moderation and free exchange, no matter how gritty it might get. You may also take note that any and all who have taken the initiative to openly discuss VN issues at RR have been welcomed and well-treated. I trust your goal is the same for VN

[Catharsis]

Berelain and Darkend, do you want to make a gesture? Take Xiicri off moderation. You all know who she is.

[Tryagain]

No the problem is Tulga plain and simple.

When the game is progressing at a normal MMO pace and being developed satisfactorily the boards themselves will cease to be as they are now. For if these were occuring the boards would still be a moderate place to post or even a fanboi haven AS THEY ONCE were. Yes indeedy the HZ VN boards at one time were more lets give Bowman a hug than these boards are now. I wonder exactly why it has changed ?

Its rather simple and it certainly isn't rocket science people.

[Catharsis]

No one's looking for a fanboi haven. However, Hz Vault advertises itself as afan site - and Berlain was good enough to post a reminder to that effect. However, it doesn't appear to haveanything to do with Horizons EXCEPT the pedantic saga of DA, DB, AE, and Tulga (did I leave anyone out?). In fact, the General section there is a dandy place to post your WoW information.

And yet if anyone disagrees with the low priests of Hz Vault, the mods - save Berlain - are all over the poster like white on rice.

And yes, I've saved everything .....