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Thread: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

  1. #41
    Targonis
    Guest

    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

    There are some other problems that could be done to help bring people back to the game. For example, while the remaining dragons wait for the ARoP, the ARoP doesn't mean anything for those who play a biped. Lairs for dragons don't mean anything for bipeds.

    If you play a dragon, then of course these are key elements that have been lacking for far too long, but to do nothing for the non-dragons, and have no plans that make the game more interesting for ALL players is what has killed things for many people.

    Roleplayers want a purpose, and Horizons had the focus of being more for roleplayers back in the early days, and it's what made things fun, bugs aside.

    The WA has no organization, they don't push. They don't claim land, hold it, then expand their influence until the living races push them back. The WA is all but gone since the shard merge, unless you are very high level.

    The Blight Anchors were very cool initially, but wern't used to expand the WA influence the way they should have in my opinion. There is no fight to push back the blight.

    I remember way back pre-release there was talk about AI, and how when a more powerful undead mob would spawn, it would initially create lesser undead, and build forces that would eventually attack towns. That whole idea went away. Attacks on towns besides the Avatar of Pain were generally few and far between. The idea that the players help to change the game world went away when mobs would just respawn in the same place over and over.

    To fix the problem:
    Make it so blight anchors move out from already blighted areas, then stay as they spawn mobs. After the land has stayed blighted for a certain period of time, it STAYS blighted. If all undead are removed from an area and are gone for tripple the time it was blighted, the blight fades.

    Bring in quests where low level characters are treated as low levels in the fight. They are to help eliminate the undead in the smaller blighted areas(which have lower level mobs), and to act as messengers or to deliver supplies. Each quest should do something helpful, like finishing a delivery would provide a boost to those fighting on the front lines in the fight.

    Other ideas might be to wipe the world and start fresh with things ballanced based on the current number of players. The game world has a TON of plots now, but there are so few people playing, those plots are useless. Worse than useless because they remind people of a time when plots were in short supply.

    Tulga could push internally to make a "Horizons 2.0", a follow-up game that has all the issues fixed, but would be sold to the public as a new game. If a game is perceived as a failed game, it's harder to get new people than if a game is sold to the public as a new game. Make the new game COMPLETE, focus on depth of storyline that can be found in game without a lot of un-related quests to provide the details. Sub-plots can be found through the smaller quests, but the main quest shouldn't be impossible for the players to learn about without going to a web page.

    And finally, we need communication on the OFFICIAL communication areas, these being the FORUMS and web page. IRC is nice for the developers to chat with players, but should not be the place you MUST go if you ever want information from the company that makes the product. I hate even seeing mention of the IRC channel on the forums because I don't have the time during the day to sit there in the hopes that a dev might say something.

    I hope that I havn't offended anyone, but with the focus on the dragons, I think Tulga/AE has taken their eye off the larger problem of there being nothing to do. After the dragons become ancient, what will they do with their new power/abilities? The same goes for the level 120 cap, or new items, weapons, loot drops, etc. All those things go to feed the grind, but still don't give a sense of purpose.


  2. #42

    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!



    ^^Agree.
    -Digit Dryad
    Chaos

  3. #43

    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

    Ok, I'll toss in what I think about where they should go.

    They need to offer something unique. If they offer the same kind of gameplay experience as EQ2 and WoW people will play EQ2 or WoW instead. They must offer something unique.

    They must offer unique things at very low levels and continue to offer fun things to do at very high levels. Low level for the new players of course and high level for the ones who've been around awhile. Personally, I think they've always done ok at the lower levels.

    I think they've always understood that.

    Some things they offer are obviously unique, such as dragons. If you want to play a dragon there's only one game for you and always will be for the forseeable future. That in and of itself is enough for me to keep my HZ subscription active.

    I haven't played WoW, but I have played EQ2, and I can say without a doubt HZ offers several things EQ2 lacks. For examleconsigners which dont' require you to sit in your room or even remain online, a far better crafting system with MUCH more sensible approach to resource gathering (do you really think people would build an empire off of the odd branch which falls to the ground?). Player built housing and in fact housing which can step far beyond the mere fluff stage which is where EQ2 primarily is. Obviously EQ2 completes beats in HZ in things too, such as graphics and technical polish but, short of rewriting the engine and redoing the graphics (probably not practical) they can't do anything about that so they have to convince people to play DESPITE those aspects. EQ2 also has dungeons of course but, interestingly enough, I don't think that's as big a deal as it might appear at first glance -- even in EQ2 there's lots of people who hate to go into dungeons even though they're available. HZ also completely destroys EQ2 when it comes to soloability above level 20ish. SoE has been making a lot of noise about making the game soloable, but it isn't in any practical sense above 20 (heh like putting a solo mob in the middle of a group only dungeon, yea some soloability).

    Anyway, if it were me I'd do the following:

    1. Finish up dragons with the AROP and lairs. Dragons are a bigselling point so don't neglect them.

    2. Look for high level content. Otherwise once people hit high level you've lost them. I know the original concept (which was good if it had worked out technically) was the fight against the Withered Aegis. If that had panned out -- if it had provided a constat stream of worthwhile things for players to do solo and in groups -- it would have made the game. However, if it's not going to work out they need a substitude and need it badly. As-is, I log on my level 100 dragon, look around, realize there's nothing to do, so log off. Many people cancel when presented with that situation.

    3. Do whatever they can to fix any technical glitches they can. Face it, they look really really bad. My personal most hated technical glitch is those big retangular spots in the ocean at regular intervals. They probably can't fix much if any, but they should fix what they can.

    4. And yes, they need to provide really compelling content at the lower levels (ideally at al levels but low levels are important). EQ2 surprised me on this and did a good job. They had a huge number of quests at just the right difficulty level which provided useful items.

    I don't think that anything I've said is a surprise to them. But that's what I think anyway.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

    Dungeon .... when?

    I remember a Dev one day saying in a chat that HZ could not support and be made to have dungeon.

    Sorry, but HZ has dungeon layout support. Take 3 easy place; the crafter under Augh, the iron mine in front of Augh, the tunnel for the portal to Elnath and the few passage trough the mountain at various spot. The engine will support the desing of the dungeon, the wall can stop player, so why not the mobs.

    I say if you want to interest people add content to be explored, not taking your 6 golems and make then to be 20 types of same boring mobs.


    There is things I need to find suggestion for:

    - Way to encourage guild activities (someone suggested shared quest)
    - Ways to make it possible to play only a crafter and be interesting to do so.
    - Same goes for adventurer.
    - Plot building to be interesting (racial content, rebuild, ornaments that aren giant size)
    - Interesting quest .. that does not equal back & forth 7 times.
    - Place intersting to explore (caves, dungeon)
    - Things to make the game go forward (Humm!! like restoring a burnt Sslanis village or tower north of Dali).

    How can I make suggestion for these ????
    Nalrach, Healer & Guardian, Member of the "Iron Circle" guild
    Ramti, Friendly draggy trying to wake-up from long nap.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

    The biggest problem the game has now is content.

    Right now I can do 2 things. I can craft and grind my 15th million mithril bar...but what for? I sold my last armor over a month ago... Ok I could work on my plot but to be honest the sandstone, slate, granite, iron, steel, cobalt comes outta my ears.

    So lets adventure then and go to alged...wait i was there only a week ago so lets go to corvus....or the other satyr mines and kill my 15th million purplespider and lvl my next multiclass....

    This is not content, this is boring and time wasting.

    I remember why a simple 2D game kept me busy for 4 years, yes i'm talking bout Ultima Online... the mother of all MMORPG's and Richard Gariot had it so right with his game.
    A few examples.

    When I started as a young blacksmith in UO i remember mining my ****** off on the several metals ingame, first iron, later the others (can't remember their name, only their colors) In HZ you do the same, you grind and grind but their is no interacting with other players, because you don't have the right techs or ur not high enough or for whatever reasons. In UO after some mining and some gains i could go to the public forge and stood their and I could offer my repair services to the mighty adventurers that roamed brittania, In HZ everything is made from a supermetal coz nothing ever needs repair, once you have your equipment, u have it and u never have to look back again... In UO you always had to make sure it was repaired coz when it was to far gone it went pof and ya stood in ur nekkie or had no weapon anymore.

    Even the adventuring was different, There was always the chance to loot that Vanquishing katana from the tiniest mongbat (albe it extremely rare, you had a chance it could drop)
    If I didn't wanted to be a knight i could be a tamer and started my way taming bunnies and ending up many moons later with a tamed mighty dragon or white wyrm on my side who accepted me as their master, I still remember how proud i was when i tamed my dragon or even my mare, and hell was I pissed off when my pets got hurt in combat or worse, even got killed. I miss this feeling in game as there is no risk to loose anything valuable, you die, you recall, you go back...where is the risk to lose something you really care for ?

    When I was bored of it all I checked my chest in my villa, grabbed some treasure maps, a shovel and went up decode the map and to the coords and tried to dig up the chest, to kill the mighty foes that spawned to protect their chest and after a fierce battle the treasure was mine. Also I could jump on my boat with my fisher, not to catch fish, but to find messages in bottles, those were the locations of sunken ships and treasures, also guared by the creatures of the sea.

    Always was there something to do in UO and it didn't bored me for 4 years and I am gone for it now for 3 years but i would have played it still if the devs didn't start swinging the nerfbat around the period of publish 16. But I never left UO because there was nothing do.

    Now in HZ I also have many things to do... I still have to finish my new house, I need to build more silo's and after that maybe i build more silo's....Its starting to look like a 9-5 job and not like a game anymore, and how much I love this game and i'm in it since 12/12/2003 I am losing interest and I am losing it fast, and the more ppl leaving the faster i'm losing it.

    Vah is right. Something must change, and not a lil bit, the game NEED a MASSIVE content boost, not only the AROP or lairs, I mean content, furniture, REAL quests, treasure hunts (whatever) loot, decay. But most of all it need to give the players the feeling they play a game again, not a daytime job.

    Make it fun again DEVS and do it fast coz ur ship is sinking, and its sinking dang fast.

  6. #46
    Thalak
    Guest

    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

    I have said it before, and here are folks saying it again. The game needs to be about something. Yes, we have wa mobs, yes we have anchors...we definitely have enough mutli classed characters, but what has it all been about? I thought we were to fight the WA, to take back our land, develop it and drive the WA back into the darkness they came from.

    What I see is a lot of fixed spawns that have no impact on advancing a story line, triggering an epic quest, and anchors...well one step forward, two steps back. The incursions into Aug, Morning Light, Bristugo: that seemed to be about something. The blight fortresses are strongholds of....nothing. Wiping out fields of WA why? To have them respawn?

    Yes towns are vacant, or nearly so. New players will find out the same thing that everyone has echoed here: I play, but for what reason? What is my motivation? It's been nearly about nothing for a year now. Kill 50 mobs is not a quest, its a task, and better yet after 10 times, its a chore.

    I hope I have made a point here: Tulga, we are waiting, but the timer is running low. Bring us some purpose to be level X, bring the game world some purpose to build, craft, die. You will get your new players if you are more creative than kill 50 uber wa. You will get your new players if there is reason and purpose.

  7. #47
    Targonis
    Guest

    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

    Nalrach, the problem is that the server code doesn't support the things needed for mob pathing. The collision detection is being handled by the game client, not on the server. In order for dungeons to work, they would need to add a lot to the server-side world model. It's also why mobs can walk through town walls and such, because these objects arn't on the server as a part of the world model.

    It COULD be done if the world model were made to be dynamic, but it's not. Things like spells that change the geography of the game world don't work for that very reason. The devs can make changes to the world model manually, but not as a dynamic process.


  8. #48
    Member
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    Oct 2004
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    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

    You know what puzzles me ??!

    The fact that AE said they built a good platform on which they could add new content far easier than any other way (easier than EQ2 or WoW could add their content)

    And not only that they prooved they haven't built a easi to create new content system, but they delay it far longer than it would have been if they just created things the old fashion way.


    TULMEGA : proove we're wrong !!

    I DARE YOU [:P] but do it quick please (I may not be going anywhere, but I can not say the same for others)
    Proud member of Angelic Protectors
    66 wizard / 36 mage / 21 healer / 20 cleric
    44 mason / 26 spellcrafter / 11 scholar

    Quest Team member click here
    Horizons IRC chat

  9. #49

    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

    As a matter of fact i will stay in Hz for a long time. I just love this game.
    I have seen a lot of good ideas in this thread and i hope someone of Tulga will read them. But i have to say that some of the things are done by now and others are on the way and in my Opinion Tulga goes in the right direction. I just hope they can do it fast enough so the game stays online.
    Kharuum / Caramia Unity
    Whenever an Optimist sees a ligth which isnt really there, there allways is an pesimist who blows it out.
    Giovanni Guareschi

  10. #50

    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

    Refuse posted...

    2) A company must grow.
    This means that they need to attract new players to the game.

    Here Here...


    Now my `2`coppers worth...


    The only way I can see this gameimproveing majorly in the short termis an influx of New players to Horizons...

    Being kind too the high level playersby giveing them new high level content at this stage of the game isn`t going happen in my view...(Excludeing ArOp of course which is been going on forever now)

    New game content is onlygoing to be addressed towards the New player marketandthe high level playersmay get the odd bone / gnomethrow their way to keep us semi happy in Horizons land...

    Which we have seen so far from Tulga's latest patch notes...

    Then I can see this happeningto thegame of Horizons once its been rubber stamped as running smoothly by Tulga games...


    RE_RELEASE of HORIZONS...


    (May beeven a renamed product & new Boxset or Expansion which will include the level cap raise...)


    The future will tell us more...


  11. #51

    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

    Divine, thats the razors edge we walk currently... How to intice new players while not losing oldtimers.

    I fully agree we need new players, ones that stay. So content will have to be slanted towards them. This will mean the oldtimers will need to shift gears to hang in this race.

    If these boards are to be believed, many oldtimers just don't want to do that. They feel the game is all about them... and to a good degree it is. However, not all are so bored or jaded to be blindly angry. As things improve, so will perspectives. And, when it gets to the point that all is running smoothly, I hope they DO have a re-release, or at least a mega advertising blitz.
    As a new dawn rises over Istaria, may we all band together to meet the challenges!

    Continuing Development of Horizons... SWEET!

  12. #52

    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

    Divine, thats the razors edge we walk currently... How to intice new players while not losing oldtimers.

    I fully agree we need new players, ones that stay. So content will have to be slanted towards them. This will mean the oldtimers will need to shift gears to hang in this race.
    How is it changing gears?
    I do believe that the last many months has been a hanging in this race kind of thing.
    Post merge, there really hasn't been all that much "new" has there?

    Also, as these old players are the actual paying customers, it isn't good to tell your paying customers "hey to bad we need new people, so wait for content". That is your income right now. It would be foolish to throw away guarenteed income on the "chance" of additional income. And since much of this game's growth will be based on people spreadingthe good word, the current base is important. As I mentioned above.

    But make or break, the current base is what is keeping the company afloat (if it is staying afloat). If every customer right now quit, the game would fold, or it would need investment capital.

    So in reality, Tulga can't say "hey hold on". That has been said for 7+ months now, longer in some cases.



    If these boards are to be believed, many oldtimers just don't want to do that. They feel the game is all about them... and to a good degree it is.
    Just a note.
    Every dollar (or lack there of) that the company has been made has been by these current players.
    Is the game abou them? Well if it isn't 100% then you can assume a few things.

    1) When new players move from new to "them" then they too will be "them" and "them" will be important.
    2) When they get to "them" they will be come "them" and find the same thing "we" are finding now.
    3) If "them" are not there when the new players get to be "them" then there will be a vacuum, and HZ will be come a revolving door of players, with no "stable" base of income.

    However, not all are so bored or jaded to be blindly angry.
    But paying none the less.
    So a paying customer for Tulga right now is better then a perspective customer, even if said paying customer is "bored/angry/jaded". As the money is there to keep the Tulga people employeed.

    Dismissing the reasons for this and other posts as "they are just angry", or "they are jaded" is foolish. Also, the fact that you said "bored" implies that the game does have a lack of content. So "angry" customers, and "jaded" customers and "bored" customers are customers made that way by the company.

    As pointed out above, communication has been "weak". I have monitored the HZ IRC all week. What i found was a large chat room for Horizon's players. With information scattered within it. Communications is key.

    It is about responsibility (as mentioned before). Angry customers are created by the company. Why are they angry, why are they bored, why are they jaded? Did they start jaded? Or did something AE do jade them? And will this happen to your "new" players. And if you are not identifying these issues, then that becomes company policy. "oh, they are just jaded".

    If players are bored, they are bored because of something in the game. If the intent is to "have these players wait" then make it public knowledge that you don't plan on doing any content for them. Failure to say that "jades" these players.

    As I said before, some people have more tolerence, or more desire/needs from the game and these may be being met. Others don't. The company has to decide what to do about this. Perhaps that decision has already been made and you have said it. "Old times need to shift gears to hang in".

    Can I assume from that statement, that high level, long term content isn't planned? Can I have an honest statement about what the future my character has in this game? Or should I read into that, there is nothing planned for the future, and "hanging in" is what I can expect to spend my money on?

    If that is true, then perhaps you have your answer why people are jaded. Basically "hang in" there means, keep sending money, but don't expect more then you have now.


    As things improve, so will perspectives. And, when it gets to the point that all is running smoothly, I hope they DO have a re-release, or at least a mega advertising blitz.
    I hope they do too, and I hope they do understand that communication is the key. Responsibility is important, and the paying customer is keeping the bread on the table. Any of them failing puts the company at risk.

    -Digit Dryad
    Chaos

  13. #53

    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

    Lack of new - fresh content is whats been this games downfall from day 1... the fact that it took over 6 months to come near to completion of AROP was another mistake...

    This game is now old news .. nothing fresh about it at all... its kind of sad but its the truth..

    It might take another 6 months just to get the game up to par.. and by that time it still wont be compared to the other games;because these newer games will be releasing new and improvedgame style and play...




    --Im still a fan just a disappointed one...
    Frons Von Frik - Order

  14. #54

    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

    I have said this elsewhere and I will say it again.

    HZ as it is now with the content of WoW would be one heck of a game.

    Content is always where AE/Tulga has screwed up and never grabbed a cluestick on.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

    the roblem with dungeons is, thar Hz has no real world model on server side.

    example:
    if you are in one of istarias tunnels and it day outside, its also light in the tunnel
    if its night outside, you cannot see your own hand.

    example 2
    by theory you can attac standing on top on the land when you'r under him in a dungeon, because the server calc no hight distances.

    and 3.
    you can look throug textures from their backside, and if your play a dragon in a dungeons he coiuld put his head throug the wall (you can see this these days ingame at walls and builduings)

    also the mobs walk throug objects and over mountains becaus the server has no collision map running for them and if, he would crtash i think.

    If there are dungeons planned, it would afford huge work on the server and client engine.

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