Official ARoP Starting Requirement Discussion Thread

[Amerelium]

If I migth just say this then the title of the thread is: "Official ARoP Starting Requirement Discussion Thread".

- true, it will all hing on the actual reqs to finish the thing. What SHOULD be added though, is the quests for firebreath IIIAND alternate breath weapon - dragons still have to work abit for those two...

- oh, and we have an in-game timer: Make 30 days in-game a req - That's not too harsh, and it will prevent the worst powerlevlers from becoming ancient...

[oluviel]

In a word... blah.

Now, for the REAL question. Some of those "quests" are new quests for the same old abilities. Will the old quests for the old abilities still count? IE, I didn't kill Tashka Lusa for Primal Mastery VII, but something else instead.

Quests completed is not a bad idea, but there should have been some more meaty requirements. I just hope the ARoP is really hard, like it has been touted to be. If people breeze through it, it will be a major disappointment.

Update: checked my quests.. looks like the quests just had their names changed, as I apparently killed Tashka Lusa to get Primal Mastery VII, even though I killed something else. Oh well.

I'm pretty sure your quest log should reflect the new quests and not the old even if you did them before the change

[And completing Expert tasks and other currently available tasks that cap at IV to VII]

what is meant by this? I don't know if it is just asking for adv quests or adv and crafting + the dragon adv task you would get dragon's edge from.

[Deth]

Oluviel If you go to the page it gives a list of all the quest you must do. He just put that in as so not to have to list the quest.

[Death-knell]

Tulga, listen to us? Why start now? I mean really, how many times have they asked our opinion and then completely ignored it?



This is kicking my butt, could someone link to the requirements page I can't seem to get it to come up. I keep trying to go to the community section to read this and can only get back to the forums?!?!?!

[Antonath]

I have several opinions about these requirements. The first being "nothing we say will make any difference".

That said, I have mixed feelings about Ancient status. Everyone either wants lower requirements than suggested (so their PL'ed hatchling can become Ancient) or higher requirements (to prevent the previous lot ever becoming Ancient). That would seem to suggest Tulga may have things about right.

100 days since creation... For existing players, that seems like nothing. Heck, I was over 400 days old before I started my RoP (and no alts whatsoever, before anyone accuses me of not being a dedicated Dragon [:P] ). However, for new players - which Tulga clearly wants to recruit, for obvious reasons - 100 days is a reasonable delay. At that point, they're probablywith usfor the long haul, have become comfortable with the world, the community and their Dragons, and are looking for a new challenge. We can't realisticaly expect brand new players to wait as long as we have (which is the time period everyone's carefully avoiding suggesting).

I'd love to see some requirement like "first character created on the account was the Dragon in question" or "Dragon in question has more in-game time than other alts". But equally, I understand why that will never happen (though that second one is very appealing - it'd certainly make Ancient a reward for the dedicated Dragons, while not barring any player).

As a side note, if the quests listed are the requirement for Ancient, does thatimply that those quest-lines will never be extended, or that the requirements will be altered when the new quests are added...

Antonath

[Foxfire]

Tone of this thread so far is so negative and disappointed. Tulga has been listening and improving the game at a rate that is at least tolerable to me. They can't listen to all opinions at once, so saying they "completely ignore ... our opinion" is hyperbole at the kindest. In this thread their are both folks who are happy and unhappy about no starting crafting requirement. They have to listen to one or the other, someone's going to be disappointed. Anyway.

I've been in since Beta and have well over 100 in-game play days on my chars. I know this game, and have been through its ups and downs. I have focused on my biped for my own pleasurable reasons, but have kept my dragon fuddling along as a change of pace. Plus I figured I'd wait until all the bugs and pain were worked out. At least through RoP, I have that now, I'll start lazily heading that way. I see no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to start the ARoP when I get there. The content for a dragon's life is finally there enough to pull me away from my biped for a bit, or at least time share. I've watched and helped dragons through their RoP and quests, and how they fight since I started. I've personally been at the transformation of well over a dozen dragons. Long winded way of saying the 100 days since creation is fine. I would be ok with 100 days in-game time for the player (not the toon), even. But I would not want to see a 100 day as an Adult requirement. That would have me twiddling my thumbs for no good reason, gaining no meaningful "learning the world" experience along the way.

In some ways for me, it's a mute point. I won't powerlevelmy dragon, and it may take me a hundred days to get from Adult to L90. But I'd rather not worry about it.

[imported_Lycaunoss]

So much anger over the starting requirements.....

Ok we don't know how long ARoP is. We don't know what the requirements are to finish. We know very very little about the thing.

Personally if I was Manga and asked for a discussion about the requirements and all of you jumped all over me like that it would be the end of the discussion. Never mind that we've already discussed this till we're blue in the face (no offence intended Bluehasia [:)] ).

I'm going to throw my 2c in anyway and say that simply the requirements are not half as important as the difficulty. I could care less if the only requirement was lvl10 dragon adventurer. If it's not possible to complete at that point that is. If I had to put my money on one of us old-timers doing something difficult and one of the PL'ed doing the same my money is on the old-timer.

[oluviel]

I agree we can't expect the requirements to be so damb hard just because we've been around so long. It may conflcit with their original intent of ancient dragons, but that means relatively nothing. Just because you start it at lvl 90 doesn't mean you'r going to finish it then. I believe the forced solo parts will enforce this nicely.

Honestly i hope the boss mob is only able to be soloed by dragons. I hope they make it hard in that most of it is solo, thus you cannot be helped so much by bipeds and others, but i could realy care less about about the starting reqs anymore.

In theory i started to become an artist 21 years ago it doesn't make me a professional yet heh.

[refuse]

- oh, and we have an in-game timer: Make 30 days in-game a req - That's not too harsh, and it will prevent the worst powerlevlers from becoming ancient...

Hmm, my .02.

lets just say they did 30 days ingame.

Now take a person who enjoys playing the game, but has a life.

First example:
Say they play about 2hours a day, that would mean it would be 12 days or real time for 1 day of ingame time or about 360 days to become an ancient.

Second example:
Say they play about 3 hours a day, but only 15 hours a week (they play weekdays, spend time with family on weekends). So that puts them at about 48 weeks or 336 real world days to play.

Third example.
Say they just Leave themselves logged into the game as long as possible each day, so it takes only 30 days "in game" assuming no CTDs, or game drops. The requirement of 100 days is a harsher limit.

We can't realisticaly expect brand new players to wait as long as we have (which is the time period everyone's carefully avoiding suggesting).

Thank you! Exactly.

In theory i started to become an artist 21 years ago it doesn't make me a professional yet heh.

:)

Nice point.

But anyways.

There was a point made before.

Everyone wants the requirements to be just below what they have, so they make it and no one else does. ;) They are after all the only "really dedicated" dragon!

Heck I say, one of the requirements is that the dragon's don't have a silly color scheme. Submit them to me, and I will tell you if it is silly. IF it is, make a new dragon now! That sound like a good requirement.

or how about "Must have a real Dragon name". No silly dragon names. That isn't what dragons are about!

Or "Must never have eaten fireworks!" Yeah, real dragon's don't eat fireworks.

Or even "never had a death point!" I mean real dragons don't die.

"Never eaten Gnome Quiche!" or "Can make real dragon noises" or "uses proper capitilazation in their name" or "Can name all of the named Treants" or . . .

They are already making all the quests required (fighting quests) to make PLing Dragon's out.

[Goriax]

/agree refuse

Also, these are just the requirements necessary to START. You still have to finish the thing.

They could have a requirement that you solo Ravager or Mnedon or whoever that really nasty golem is (not even biped buffs). That might seperate the wheat from the chaff.

I think they listen to players, but they'd be totally insane if they slavishly did exactly what thefew players posting here said(assuming they even agreed, which they don't). They want feedback, not detailed instructions how to do it.

[Taenuarhew]

*pulls his old signature that someone made him out, and blows the dust off it*

Everyone who knows me understands how much I hate forums, but I was sitting here and thought that with the 220 days played I have spent split "evenly" between my dragon and my sarisit could be consideredmy duty to say 'something' on this before I take that final journey unto that for which I have so longed.

Most of the requirements stated here are good, (as much aseven I dislike them for being to low.)I understand how much this game needs new players, and requierments which are much harder would make people less likely to play the game. If what they stated here stands, then basicly a person who gets a three month subscriptioncan be an ancient. Yes that is like a knife in the back to older players, but at the same time this game NEEDS new players... And "I" want new players to come too...

HoweverI would like to at least have a chance to know the dragon playing, and against the last poster's comments I do like the idea of a short (even 20-25 day) in game requirement. Where I might have a chance to poke the sleeping dragon with a sharp stick. Or perhaps welcome him to our lands and he might be even more inclined to stay.

People who are powerleveled over night never stay long,so i'm not so worried about hundreds of ancients flying day and night who I have never seen before because I won't be seeing them very long, butno in game requirement what so ever for the ancient rop will just make them less likely to stay,when they get on their dragon get burned out from doing things far toquickly, then we never see either their biped or dragon again.

My most humble opionion.

[LaughingOtter]

Maybe the ARoP is not about rewarding loyalty and perseverence of Dragon players who "toughed it out", playing intently since release day. Maybe something else will be about that; I don't know.

It isn't about you or all the suffering you have endured. It's about what anyone who plays a dragon - main or alt, PL'd or hardcore, whatever - has to do to become ancient.

ARoP isn't the Sky Bar, and you're not the guy at the velvet rope, deciding who gets in.

[Vahrokh]

While to stay true with the lore I'd really would have required i.e. 3M or 5M hoard (VERY easy to do nowadays and with the hugely pumped up hoard drops rate it's very fast too), I think all this "anger" vs the requirements comes off a misunderstandment.

The ARoP is not a "prize" that the most old dragons, those who endured all, must have.

It's a "new dragon state", nothing tied with the _player behind the keyboard_ heroics in keeping up with a game which many times has been a true patience trial for the oldtimers.

I wish for those (and here there could be 1 year requirements and all the nasty "barriers" they want to have) to get some unique or nice item, a sort of "hero of Istaria flag or token, that even biped players could get". Expecially for some classes, they endured much pain like us.

Talk about an item or crystal that would give some nice boost or something.
An item to "brag about". Give them a recognition for their time (and money) they spent hopefully and faithfully waiting for the game to improve.

Just my (not hoardable [;)]) cents.

[LaughingOtter]

Well said, Vahrokh.

[Goriax]

Almost forgot to mention.

It would be nice if the ARoP tried to test the player's skill and knowledge of his dragon abilities. Such as forcing him to solo tough mobs where, if he knows how his ALL abiltiies he'll succeed, but if he doesn't he won't. The player would have to be told a lot about the mob in gameof course. Things like, the mob will hit him hard at the beginning with a bunch of attacks which, if he has gold shield on, won't kill him. Or the mob starts off by casting a really ugly spell, but if he's stunned at that point he won't. Except not mention gold shield or tail whip. Just mention that if you can reduce your damage taken at this point in the fight you may survive. Or if you can momentarily stun the mob at that point it'll go a lot easier.

Alas, the engine doesn't really appear set up for soloing, since as near as I can tell it can't do an instanced area.

No matter. I for one don't expect perfection. I just want a fun doable quest which is hard enough so that when I'm done I can feel like I accomplished something. Plus I want to be ancient.

[Pharcellus]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Pharcellus wrote: Maybe the ARoP is not about rewarding loyalty and perseverence of Dragon players who "toughed it out", playing intently since release day. Maybe something else will be about that; I don't know.



It isn't about you or all the suffering you have endured. It's about what anyone who plays a dragon - main or alt, PL'd or hardcore, whatever - has to do to become ancient.

ARoP isn't the Sky Bar, and you're not the guy at the velvet rope, deciding who gets in.

Yeah, you gotta really twist what I said pretty far to make it into bullshit like that.

Fact is, that is pretty much what I said, if you'd bothered to read it, instead of just gut-reactioned a response.

[Pharcellus]

Third example.
Say they just Leave themselves logged into the game as long as possible each day, so it takes only 30 days "in game" assuming no CTDs, or game drops. The requirement of 100 days is a harsher limit.

That's why most people who made REAL suggestions (not ones along the lines of the hyperbole crap in the rest of your post) suggested BOTH a "time since creation" requirement AND an "in-game time" requirement.

We can't realisticaly expect brand new players to wait as long as we have (which is the time period everyone's carefully avoiding suggesting).
Thank you! Exactly.

Sure we can. Why can't we realistically expect it to be a year from the time you create your Dragon toon until he/she eligible for the ARoP, amongst other, similarly stringent requirements? Ancient is the end; the pinnacle of our progression. Yeah, there may be ancient-targeted content beyond that, but I really liked the notion (which I started out with since before beta) that I would have a nice, long wait while I levelled and enjoyed the existing content until that day, having plenty of time to prepare for it. It was to be representative of my long-term will and patience to persevere through the hardships of youth and growth to finally reach that pinnacle, and be judged worthy to enter that realm with the rest of my kind. Makes great story AND great gameplay sense to me! [:D]

Everyone wants the requirements to be just below what they have, so they make it and no one else does. [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img] They are after all the only "really dedicated" dragon!

No, "everyone" doesn't want any such ******** thing. I don't care, make them even tougher so that no one qualifies right at release. Gives us something to work towards, a challenge to look forward to. At the time when many of us made really stringent suggestions (and when we expected the ARoP to begin), we didn't even meet them. In beta, I fully expected them to make the RoP requirment to be 3-6 months since creation, and Ancient RoP requirements to be 1-2 years since creation. Of course, I also expected a lot of things back in beta that would come to pass by even this time to fill the interim time with good gameplay, but that's another issue.

Contrary to your ridiculous suggestions, I (and others) have proposed nothing but objective metrics that anyone with patience and perseverence could achieve, in time.

They are already making all the quests required (fighting quests) to make PLing Dragon's out.

Uhhh, hate to break this to ya, but doing adventurer quests to kill mobs fits well within a PLer's normal activities. How anyone thinks this is even a minor bump in the carpet to a PLer is beyond me. "Ooo! I get XP for killing mobs, XP for talking to a trainer before and after I kill mobs, and an ability to help me kill even faster afterwards! Kewl d00d!".

[Amerelium]

...having thought about the reqs for awhile, I can now say that they aren't too bad. Would have I liked them to be harder? Sure - but that's because of my point of view; Shul's been around for a year now. The devs listened to us and added as a req that all the quests are done, which is good (note though, I would like to see the adult breath weapon quests added). If we try to put ourselved in the shoes of the new player; having to wait for say 200 days or be in-game for 50 or 30 days to be able to START the transition for the ultimate dragon state, well, that ain't very attractive. I think Tulga would have liked higher reqs, but looked at it a bit realistically.
As Vah, I would have liked to see a 5M hoard req, BUT, those with high hoards are rewarded in any event, and I hope they don't reduce the hoards level reqs, and add 20 new ones with the same progression. And again, add the Breath of Fire III and alternate breath weapon quests. As for a lvl 90 or 100 level req - again, 100 would be nice, but that'a because I'm exactly that. As for a craft level req, well, a lvl 100 dragon with only the craft level needed for RoP is quite limited in many ways, and I think every dragon should chose to get their crafting abilities up. But that is every dragon's own choise, and those of us that become good crafters, we KNOW that we have the advantage - that's enough for me...

- GOOD work on the latest patch Tulga, get the embers fixed, and give us the ARoP; nomatter how high or low we think the reqs are: We're ready for it...

[refuse]

Talk about an item or crystal that would give some nice boost or something.
An item to "brag about". Give them a recognition for their time (and money) they spent hopefully and faithfully waiting for the game to improve.

You mean like banners?

Or vengence forms?

Or crimson scourge rings

or scarab rings?

Or haloween masks?

or festival candies?


I think "items of mentions" should be through quests. If you participate you get it.

If what they stated here stands, then basicly a person who gets a three month subscriptioncan be an ancient.

3 monts is 93 days at most! ;) And I am pretty sure there are not 3 31 day months in a row so the best they can do with 3 monts is 92 days. Not long enough to be an ancient!


Then again, if they play hard, do all the quests listed above, and are the right level.. . . . The requirements are done.

do like the idea of a short (even 20-25 day) in game requirement.

The problem is in game time is subjective.
How many hours a day do you play?
Why can't they just log themselves in, and leave the computer on for 30 days? Does that make it any more "difficult" to get to Ancient?

I like the "having" all quests done approach. Sure they can be powered through the quests, but then again, getting all the named ones can take some time (took me 2 days to get Gritus to spawn! Darn Sand Beetle).

It's a "new dragon state", nothing tied with the _player behind the keyboard_ heroics in keeping up with a game which many times has been a true patience trial for the oldtimers.

And for the bipeds?
Oh right, everything has always worked.
It is the "pump the game gimick" event that is all it is. Horizons has dragons, no one else does. Posting "you can't be the biggest dragon for a year" isn't going to work. I have never heard of a game requiring a "time before being able to do something" requirement before. Alone I think the 100 days is silly. Sorry, to me it is a ploy to make people pay for 4 months.

Things like, the mob will hit him hard at the beginning with a bunch of attacks which, if he has gold shield on, won't kill him.

The problem is play style.
Do you require a primal attack? Or do you require a HTH fight (T&C helping with tail whip?) While some dragons may be buffed up in T&C and others in primal, balancing the two will be tough. Though they could give you a "buff" that raises you to a certain level to make it even.

[Pharcellus]

If we try to put ourselved in the shoes of the new player; having to wait for say 200 days or be in-game for 50 or 30 days to be able to START the transition for the ultimate dragon state, well, that ain't very attractive. I think Tulga would have liked higher reqs, but looked at it a bit realistically.

Who says? I know quite a few people (myself included) who love the idea of high requirements for an ultimate epic quest. Some of them have never played this game, but played in other games with something similar. Thus, I don't agree with the blanket statement that having tough requirements "ain't very attractive". I think it is great, and did think it was great even when I was a n00b.

I don't think it is very attractive to see "Fireball the Hatchling" running around levelling and doing quests for a little over 3 months, then see "Fireball the Ancient" a week later. I can't imagine Fireball will be around to see his 6-month subscription expire, either.

As for a craft level req, well, a lvl 100 dragon with only the craft level needed for RoP is quite limited in many ways, and I think every dragon should chose to get their crafting abilities up. But that is every dragon's own choise, and those of us that become good crafters, we KNOW that we have the advantage - that's enough for me...

What advantage is that? I think I missed it somewhere.