The Beauty of Istari***

[Crazyfingers]

ok I wrote this whole long post about whats sogreat about Horizons then I somehow deleted it. Now I angry and cant remember half of what I said. It was eloquent for a dwarf.

Basically the core of the game is so ******** cool because you can do anything you want. Hunt in a group, solo, take 10 classes to 100 blah blah blah. Start a guild, join a guild, build a plot or buy a plot blah blah blah. Sale stuff or give it away, make equipment for others or put yourself on invisible and just level and sale to a pawnbroker.Roleplay or dont. Learn your adventure class to a science or be powerleveled. Fight Mhedon naked solo or in a group. The choice is yours and the possibities are endless only limited by your imagination.

Most of you know all this allready so I cut to the chase.

Why have and are so many of our friends and fellow gamers that seen the same greatness and possiblities of Horizons leaving? For most it happens around 6 months 2 level 100 adventure classes and crafts. Why am I playing this? Theres nuthing new to see, make or do. Then most leave. The rest of us stay in the hopes of the possibities and potential. Defend the devs or holler at them, end up with 7x100 classes not by choice but to hang on. Try the best we now how to do our part to keep Istaria Beautiful. Things are starting to change and they must keep changing, growing and expanding. The customers and loyal fans have done their part now its timethe devsshow us what they can do.

My suggestion is more of a demand from a loyal customer that has stuck it out, tried his hardest to create fun and enjoyment for myself and others during a rather bismal past 4 months. All I ask for is some consideration and a response.

Horizons needs to move HORIZONTALY NOT VERTICALLY. Scratch the level 101 to 120 stuff. It does nuthing for new players and returning players.Success is not measured by levels, its measured by what you do when you have achieved your goals (ENDGAME)

First finish the poor dragons' homes allready! Then try the twist I suggest on blighted equipment(see part II). Test it retest it, ask if people like it. If they do role out the rest of the Gifted Equipment. These 2 things will create a buzz that even the naysayers couldnt resist trying. And have thehigher levelssearching, trading, and creating for months. Thats what is all about isnt it? A game built around the balance and dependance between crafters and adventures to better themselves against a common foe.

Next STOP LISTENING TO ANY PLAYER OVER LEVEL 50 FOR 3 MONTHS!! Focus on new players, lag and immersion. Revamp kion/sslanis into a vibrant place for newer players, with fun quest, exciting monsters to kill, and convenient resource locations. The first 60 levels before theserver mergewas a work of art. Remember what it was like and bring it back.

Summer comes and goes. Really slow time for gaming, the loyal fans still searching, trading, and making new things with better and better efficiency. The lag has decreased and new players are enjoying the experience again. All the time mojo is rising, a buzz is in the air. Horizons is back!

Last but not least. Start on level 100 quests. Can only do one level 100 quest for adventure and craft. So if someone has 7 level 100 crafts he has to pick which craft line he wants to pursue. Dragons Ancient Rite of Passage, spiritists banshee spell, weaponsmiths colored weapons ability, etc etc. The ONLY way to gain another master 100 ability is to wait 30 days, in a similar manner as the Gift Givers quest of patience. Player can choose to take the II tier of the class from before or the tier I quest of another 100 class. Testem, retest em. Add some new group hunting grounds and resourses.Create a rebuilding ofOld Rachival event allowing for all levelsto participate.Test retest it again, reduce lag more.

Holiday season arrives. Add all this content that you have been testing during the fall. And release it as a Expansion Pack. During Christmas take a well deserved break and watch the gamers flock to Horizons. 40,000 players strong your happy and the loyal fans that have stuck it out are in awe.


Gotta have a vision this might not be your exact vision or anybody elses on this board, but I guarantee if something similar was implemented Success would replace disaster. Ill bet 50 gold on it.

NimKhazad
a grumpy dwarf that still has hope for the future.

Ps would like to here some ideas of abilities that people would like see for their favorite adventure and craft class. For example Mason. Master ability to sculpt stone statues on plots. Bloodmage ability to turn into bat for 60 seconds and fly.

[PJ]

As usual Nim, in your own way, you hit the nail on the head. I may disagree with some of the bits and details, but...the essence of the post is spot on.

Horizons needs to move HORIZONTALY NOT VERTICALLY. Scratch the level 101 to 120 stuff. It does nuthing for new players and returning players.Success is not measured by levels, its measured by what you do when you have achieved your goals (ENDGAME)

110% Agree. The last thing Horizons needs is more treadmill. Need to make the treadmill a more enjoyable experience and less treadmill-like. More quests to do along the way. More immersiveness. Fluff. Events, Lore, Story. More nontreadmill things to do. We've got a game that's 20 feet tall but all skin and bones. It needs to fill out.

Although personally there's one small area that's not quite addressed in your timeline. Adding the endgame. Just a note, an endgame isn't the literal "end of the game" so don't fly off the handle saying the game shoudn't "end" Quests and fluff and new mobs, etc. Are all well and good. But you'd need a veritable army of designers to add them at a rate faster or as fast as your player base can consume them.

The endgame has so many important functions. Not only is it nearly self-perpetuating (if done right) content. But it also adds purpose to the world. And Horizons very much lacks purpose.

[AZVladimir]

The endgame has so many important functions. Not only is it nearly self-perpetuating (if done right) content. But it also adds purpose to the world. And Horizons very much lacks purpose.

Not really sure I want an endgame. A friend is trying to get me to join EQ2 and my biggest issue is that I will cap out on the character in a few months. Maybe I am strange, but I don't want to start another character. 'I am who I am' as Popeye would say, and I view an endgame as an end. Maybe it is just me and maybe it is unrealistic to keep me entertained as a single character, but that is how I feel.

AZV

[LaiAhna]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]PJ wrote:
The endgame has so many important functions. Not only is it nearly self-perpetuating (if done right) content. But it also adds purpose to the world. And Horizons very much lacks purpose.



Not really sure I want an endgame. A friend is trying to get me to join EQ2 and my biggest issue is that I will cap out on the character in a few months. Maybe I am strange, but I don't want to start another character. 'I am who I am' as Popeye would say, and I view an endgame as an end. Maybe it is just me and maybe it is unrealistic to keep me entertained as a single character, but that is how I feel.

AZV

Ok while I agree that the game is lacking in the content department. I disagree with the rest. I think that before going off to make more stuff. They need to finish fixing what is there now. Then follow through with what they said they would be doing long ago. Dragon lairs first, then furnitings and also castles. After doing those things. They could then think about any other changes.

[PJ]

Should read everything. I specified that an endgame is not the literal end of the game.

To me (from a design point of view) there are 3 parts to your MMORPG.


Your treadmill: Every game so far has had one, they can mask it fairly well, but nobody's eliminated it entirely. It contains all the leveling process of the game. Horizons has this in spades for bipeds via multiclassing (less so for dragon only playersalas).

Your content: Your quests, lore, story, events, mobs, items, classes etc.

Your endgame: The endgame is not the end of anything really. It's the other option that all games need. It's the answer to "I'm tired of the treadmill, I've seen all the content, what else is there for me to do?" If you ever want to step off the treadmill and do something, it should be there.

[PJ]

Ok while I agree that the game is lacking in the content department. I disagree with the rest. I think that before going off to make more stuff. They need to finish fixing what is there now. Then follow through with what they said they would be doing long ago. Dragon lairs first, then furnitings and also castles. After doing those things. They could then think about any other changes.

I'm not sure who you're disagreeing with, me or Nim, or AZvladmir whom you quoted.

But as for me: I didn't put a priority on an endgame, I just said it needs to be done.

As for Nim: The first thing he said was finish the lairs already. As for the rest. The game is going to live or die on its ability to attract and keep new players. Castles for the uber people don't do much to attract them. (As much as I want a castle [:P])
And furniture is nice, although I don't think its as important at keeping and attracting new people.

[refuse]

As for Nim: The first thing he said was finish the lairs already. As for the rest. The game is going to live or die on its ability to attract and keep new players. Castles for the uber people don't do much to attract them. (As much as I want a castle [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-4.gif[/img])
And furniture is nice, although I don't think its as important at keeping and attracting new people.

I agree with most of the above.

My .02 is the game is living due to the "not" new people, the hangers on. Not sure how many new playing players have come in as of late, so it is my opinion only. But my feeling is that what is keeping the game going, alive, cash, is the players who have been playing for some time and are hanging on for something.

While focusing on new players is a good thing, ignoring your paying customres (more then before) isn't.

Buisness. Stabalize your base income. Assure it. Then expand.

Yes Lairs are key in many ways. But that is the dragon population. Some people don't have a dragon.

For horizons I think they lost some key time post merge. The key here (to me) seems to be two pronged.

(this all assumes Lairs and ARoP work)
As mentioned above, add content for high level players, possibly raise the cap 10 levels, adding T6/T7 formulas. Get in the epic spells for all classes (dragons included). Add in racial buildings, add in T6/7 mobs/and a place to adventure. Add in racial quests, and finish off class spell lines (even if it is stealing spells from other classes changing the name and tweaking the stats).

While doing that, do the training isle to teach new players. Give some incentive to help new players by increasing form limits for biped (the dragon I am playing now tries to help new players as much as possible). Get it so the new players are "happy" when they sign in. Add lots of little, fun, easy/hard/difficult to accomplish tasks. And address the big issues with beginners. NO information, no map information, no class information, incorrect website information, no training on how to make items, or what to do. While not 100 % is needed off the bat, explaining hoarding something for the 20th time is tiresome.

Then add in one huge community item that can address several points. For me the best suggestion as of late has been the Library suggestion for Forms/Lore Tokens. Expand or use it as you want but something new in game for everyone.


I do understand that not all of this can be done at once. But if every dollar of ever subscription is equal, then every level of player gets the same amount of attention. As of late, 4+ months of things on hold for ARoP/Lairs has made the Dragon's anticipate, and the non-dragon players cringe.

I do hope they read the above statements (above mine) and respond.

[Tryagain]

your list is impressive though completely impossible for TulgaAE to accomplish. They would need triple if not quadruple the amount of staff they have now to pull this off.

So its a delicate balancing act of appeasing currently customers which are important and new and returning players WHICH is necessary to bring the game back to profitability. Cause it is an inevitable fact that Tulga is going to run out of investor money sooner rather than later. There will come a time when they will be expected to make it own their own income and reward investor dollars. They simply can no longer escape this fact as they used their get out of jail free card already.

So what should their priorities be exactly ?? and can TulgaAE realistically pull it off to keep current customers in game while at the same time defeating their rep out there in the MMO world and attract new and returning players ? If I knew the answer to these questions I would be wiser than the dali llama ;) . So we guess and offer as much constructive feedback as we can. But Tulga needs to demonstrate that they are listening and that they haven't been so good at.

[Helcat]

"Scratch the level 101 to 120 stuff."


you couldn't be more wrong.

[LaughingOtter]

Horizons needs to move HORIZONTALY NOT VERTICALLY. Scratch the level 101 to 120 stuff. It does nuthing for new players and returning players.Success is not measured by levels, its measured by what you do when you have achieved your goals (ENDGAME)

I generally agree, though I maintain that T6 resource forms should be available NOW; those technically fall into the the 101-120 level catagory.

Growing the player base requires, as they say, something for everyone. Something to keep the existing players, something to attract & retain new players, something to bring former players back. Adding T6 resource forms will make expert construction feasable, if not practical; when ARoP goes live, that opens up a great deal of activity for high-level dragons, and lairs will benefit dragons of all levels. The newly hired environment artist is looking atthe as-yet missingracial buildings, among other things; attuned equipment is in the pipeline; and the new quest design tool is being tested by the development team - again, items with a broad appeal.

These things are examples of the game moving in just the direction Nim advocates, without forsaking the hardcore playerbase that has remained active. Many, many people in that hardcore fanbase have asked for Endgame and I think that sparks fears that lower levels & new players will be left out in favor of the high-levels. I see it as Endgame keeping the high-levels busy & happy, giving the development team time to get more low & mid-level content implemented.

[Jaraiden]

refuse, it ends at Master / tier 6. There is no tier 7 (far too much work for that). There will be tier 7ish monsters (level 120+) just for Elite content (Elite taken from names of WA from 101-120). All games have character development caps, andthen content that slowly adds to elite/uber character development . . . . look around and don't race to those caps.

But I like the poster that said listen to players of characters under level 50. TulgAE is in a delicate balancing act of good low level content to hook players and elite/endgame-ish content for the long-term players and powergamers at those levels (as in ratings nearing 200). Both are needed for subscription $$.

Unfortunately, the speed of leveling is . . . . rapid, by design and players taking advantage of such design (intended or not). So Horizons ends up being top heavy in character level/ratings (which TulgAE can easily confirm or refute).

I still believe that lairs and racial buildings are more important now, as they affect all players, along with long-standing performance issues of the Evolution Engine and its renderer. However, due to mistakes by management in the past (AE now TulgAE),some content was not done when it should have been (mainly dragons, particularly the two RoPs, and memory/lag issues). So we all pay the price for that in various ways.

[Brassandyn]

Raising the level cap right now would be the worst thing they could do. He's not wrong.

[refuse]

refuse, it ends at Master / tier 6. There is no tier 7 (far too much work for that). There will be tier 7ish monsters (level 120+) just for Elite content (Elite taken from names of WA from 101-120). All games have character development caps, andthen content that slowly adds to elite/uber character development . . . . look around and don't race to those caps.

The last line is what strikes me as odd.

based on the first part of the first post

Basically the core of the game is so ******** cool because you can do anything you want.

The problem with this/any game is the different type of people.
Some want to look around.
Some want to level.
Some want to craft.
Some want to build.
Some want to hunt.
Some want loot.
Some want quests.
Some want community.
Some want events.
Some want a mix of the two.
Some want dragons.
Some want bipeds (why do they always get lumped togheter)
Some want to multi-class.
Some want to single class.
Some want to roleplay.
Some want to just play.
Some want to design out plots.
Some want their plots built.
Some want the newest stuff.
Some want to be rich.
Some want to talk.
Some want to be left alone.
Some want to join a guild.
Some want to be powerleveled.
Some want to Solo the whole game.
Some want to fly.
Some want to walk.
Some want to swimm.
Some want to Kill other players.
Some want end game.
Some want to create dozens of characters.
Some want to build malls.
Some want to builld libraries.
Some want to design quests.
Some want to add to races.
Some want to add to classes.
Some want to limit multi-classing.
Some want to have it their way.
Some want to go with the flow.
Some want to not be lagged.
Some want to see stunning graphics.
Some want to fight massive wars.
Some want to havea purpose.


I probably missed some wants up there.

Now if they can meet all that then they will have hit the nail on the head.


Their job (what I am paying them for) is to balance all that and give me (my money of course) what I want too!

[Aamer Khan]

Wading in...

Looking at all that is being worked on currently, ( lairs, AROP, attuned loot, Quest tool ) it looks like to me they are already aware of the tightrope they are walking. The balance between new player content and hardcore player content, is indeed tricky, and they really have no net to fall onto.

The one big thing that answers most of the needs mentioned in this thread, is a new event. If you think back to the satyr mines and machines, low to mid level players had all the content they could handle. Those of us that were there, were low to mid levels at the time, and were kept quite happy and busy for months.

Can they do that again? I sure hope so. Is the new event going to be something for everyone? Again, I hope it is and believe it will be. This should give us all something both old and new to do. New in that we may see new things unseen before, and old in that we can again be involved in a community wide project.

Some wants that have been mentioned in this thread, will never be seen in Horizons. Some due to lack of manpower, some due to being outside the vision for Horizon's future. But for the most part, Tulga is moving Horizons in the direction to give us all what we want.

[LaiAhna]

"Scratch the level 101 to 120 stuff."


you couldn't be more wrong.

*waves to Helcat* Hi there :) Been a while. I agree with this.

[Thorgat]

Horizons needs to move HORIZONTALY NOT VERTICALLY. Scratch the level 101 to 120 stuff. It does nuthing for new players and returning players.
Success is not measured by levels, its measured by what you do when you have achieved your goals (ENDGAME)

Amen, Amen and ... did I say Amen?
Broader gameplay instead of the dead run to put in higher level stuff. Fill what is there and don't stretch the thing even more. But I disagree with you that an "END"-game is what we need, after all END targets the high levels again, doesn't it? Or do you mean what several UO player do once they reach the cap and suddenly feel they have time now to "play" (oddest way to look at it, isn't it?)?

[Kitimandiri]

I completely agree that they need to focus on more content.

100 levels is a lot of levels.

However, once you figure out the optimum way to level it can go by fairly quickly.

I think they need to add more content. Now in my oppinion horizons is a online community, you can choose to interact or not. Thus most of the content is the players themselves. Adding different smalle quests would be interersting but in the current game environment it would only exacerbate the problem.

I think the large server wide events are the way to make horizons work. Horizons has been left with a base of strong mature players and that alone makes this game more appealing than WoW or Eq2 to me. Some of the previous events may have been choppy and disjointed, but people still did them and had fun, because they were accomplishing something. Affecting the game world is really cool. Because of the server wide chat channels horizons is a very connected place, and that also adds to the effectiveness of these large events.

Basically I don't think they should go to 120 just yet. By adding content to the game they are building up their tool box of things to work with, and then can move onto the more high end and high quality content we all would love to see.

[Deth]

One thing they need to also do is take the content they do add and make it last. The Werewolf Island tunnel was done in what 12 hours? Thats just insanely quick. I know they expected it to be done quickly, but that quickly? One of the problems is with the number of flying dragons now supplies will be delivered so quickly it is not funny. With next to nothing else craft wise to do and with the desire just as strong to help leave something behind in the world a lot of dragons will do just that. Carry load after load so they can say. I helped!

They need to look at adding something besides ingenuity items or Dragon only created ingenuity items to all the world craft events. I would not care if the Bipeds can also apply them but let them be only dragon created. Or reverse it let them be Biped created and only dragon applied. Take away some of the runners to help slow down construction so more people can enjoy it and give dragons the joy of knowing they created something that went into the building of the things that stay in the world.

[Crazyfingers]

By endgame I do not mean end of game. I should have said endleveling. Things to do besides take up another class or craft. So when you do hit your ideal toon stats say healer/cleric. Or miner/weaponsmith. The real fun begins. Instead of saying shucks theres nuthing keeping me occupied so you level another and another and another class.

For some games it player vs player. You build your toon for pvp. Horizons has a few endlevel things. Such as construction. But it needs more. The one most obvious is fighting back the enemy for horizons. I dont know exactly how this could be achieved but the anchors were a definite attempt but not well executed.
In other words when you went to fight an anchor you didnt go to gain levels. You switched to your best class and prepared for a tough battle. Thats endgame. Treasure hunting could be another endgame. Because the loot has been so bad in horizons most that liked treasure hunting are long gone. For crafters its making big and better items and things that seperate them from other crafters.

I did not say that level 101-120 content wasnt needed. I proposed In Part Two of this post, a way to achieve the Tier VI stuff by moving horizontally not vertically. No more leveling. Use the potions, teched cargo and jewelry, xpert shops to achieve these Tier VI craftable goods. As new stones are introduced and lower tier VI items being made eventually a level 100 crafter will be able to triple tech the higher level items.

Seriously what is level 101-120 gonna do? People gonna burn through it, mess around for a few months finding the techs and forms. Then we back in the same boat as we are now.

To me the core of this game is the dependency between crafters and adventurers to work together against a foe. Crafters make the gear to help the adventure against the enemy. The adventure finds things to help the crafter enhance the equipment. From time to time big evasions occur wether its anchors or events. Also events during peacetime. Like the halloween event.

By level 100 quest for a new ability every month, it wouldnt have to be something grand for each class. For level 100 warrior kill 10 wraith lords. Get a group up and kill ten wraith lords. Return to npc and recieve 100,000s and +100 str. Then you gotta wait a month. Then either do another quest in warrior or take a quest in one of your other level 100 classes. Theres solutions to leveling that are still challenging and will keep people playing. Just not as simple as putting in 20 more levels.

In my opinion they must find a direction to go in Horizons and stick with it.

NimKhazad

Plz if you havent read my Part II Beauty of Istaria give it a view. I do think that veteran players deserve content just in a diferent direction than levels and generic forms and techs.

[Stranyr]

Scratching 120 would be foolish. 120 is needed to complete the tiers for crafting and gear.

Pushing beyond 120 isn't really important.