Why do players...

[Phillip]

how it is in any game, people rather take the easy road.

[Seikojin]

:o
I am with Dragoness... I got the map pack to help with all the "where is this" kind of questions I got. And if I want to look for something in particular, and I forgot where it was at, I look at the map. It doesnt impact my performance after its open...

But I hardley use it anyways... I know where most of what I want is nowndays... I did my exploring premerge, and found that despite the beauty in the world, there is nothing to enjoy it with or do in it beyond fighting mobs and crafting... Now if there were things to dig up, puzzles that waited for the wanderer to solve, or roaming missions in the form of npcs, then it would be appealing.

[refuse]

Thanks digit for your insight. The information is not as impossible to find without Pekkas as you make out asking a stranger for directions (or asking in a chat) is not the same as having every location on hand. The map pack did after all come about from people who explored and work together to create it.

True, very true.

In my example, there was no one on at the time that knew where barley was, or no one that responded when I asked. As our guilds confectioners had left the game (a reason I figured doing confeciton would be good to help guild) it kept more information out. And the answer came from people with the map.

Istaria is a huge and vast land not suggesting everyone explore every part of it just that telling people to get the map pack straight away may not be for the best.

Very true.

[Sibbe]

i dont see much difference in having the pack yourself or asking others where to find something...

[Bori Grimbattle]

I don't use it. I'd rather enjoy the immersiveness of talking to the other characters or exploring the lands

Now if that were only true but how many people do you A) Hear in Marketplace asking where one may find a certain creature as opposed to B) The answer which usually goes Cords xxxx/yyyy?

Now if you want immersion it would go ..Head up to Aughundell, take the northern path out of town till ya come to the black stump. Once around that swing to the east and keep going till you see the funny looking rock .... and so forth.

Before I could finish that someone has piped up Cords xxxx/yyyy.

I rely on my memory for the most part on where things are. I do have the MapPack but will only end up loading it if the old memory fails me. Otherwise it sits between patches unused. [;)] In fact I seldom place markers on my regular map preferring to rely on memory instead. It has managed to get me in trouble a few times. [:D]

The MapPack is a tool and nothing more. It is there for those who cannot remember landmarks/locations ae easily as others. It is there for those who have taken a break from the game and after a re-install need a refresher. It is there for those who have restricted playing times and wish to maximize the time they do get to play, for those that hate exploring and want to just craft and so on.

And as with any tool it is up to you whether you want to use it or not.

[imported_Lycaunoss]

I used the map pack for a while after a TG update wiped all my own markers. It's good. Lots of information. Why do some people seem to think it's unnatural to get a map? We pay for this sort of information in real life so I don't see why it's a big deal.

Why not have a mechanism in game to make and sell maps? Some sort of pointer file equivalent. That way budding cartographers could even make money from their work.

[imported_Frith-Rae]

I personally see nothing wrong with sending new players to this Community site to get their information..nor pointing out that there IS a mappack if they are intersted.

I see nothing wrong with wanting to explore, and I certainly don't see how havinga mapack means you don't want to explore or visa versa...

But the fact of the matter is, its just not FUN to fly around in circles in an area you are "thinking" has the particular spawn you want, for hours on end - and then start wondering wether or not you're in the wrong place.

I explored from day one, once the merge was done, I was done exploring. I didn't want to have to refind, in teh same territory I've already seen a million times (that never changes....), the "new" mobs.

Now, sitting in dragon chat if someone asks me where some dragon trainer is in Chic, I tell them to get on their four feet and explore it for themselves, because sorry those are just really easy to find... I instruct them how to use a map, and how to use map markers to mark it for later easier finding. As I did myself the first week I was in game.

However, if a player needs to know where Named Mob X is - I'll start with a descriptive "Go to Mahagra and take the road south, near the blahblahblah". HOwever sometimes those people have searched that area, to no avail. Or they might ask for coords specifically (I have done this myself, after seraching the area and wanting to know if I'm in the exact right area...I do ask for coords).

Now, if there is a player who every five minutes in chat is asking where some resource or mob is - THEN I direct them to the map pack. Because 1-I get tired of looking it up for them and 2-they obviously aren't intersted in exploring themselves.

When dragons ask about trainer quests, what they are, what they do - after I give my basic speheel I send them HERE to get Kumu's quest guide as an option.

Half the time new players aren't even AWARE this forum exists, and are always happy to hear there is a whole dragon forum there to help them out.

I don't mind explaining, I've done it a million times to new hatchlings - but when it becomes clear said player either 1- doesnt' care to hear the explanation or 2-is wanting more specific information than I can give them - I direct them to the mappack, and this forum.

Because that's the entire purpose of this forum...and not everyone knows it exists. :)

My mappack makes nothing complicatd on patch days, a few seconds of "delete old files" and honestly, the unmarked map I find takes far longer to open now, with more lag, than my mappacked map ever did..I dont know what's going on there :).

And seeing as how its very easy to get lost flying..its an invauable..OPTIONAL tool.

But no, its never my first response, "go get the mappack".

edit: and there is no sense in comparing this to WOW - Yes, people DO often ask for the position of certain mobs in general chat on WOW! All the time!! Even things that seem blatently obvious!! No, You don't have to sit anywehre for a few minutes to figure out if you're in the right space, you can see the mobs as you crest a hill..or stand down the field. And 9 times out of 10, I've found, the levels of mobs follow a logical sense in their course through the land of WoW, making it simple to explore. This does not always hold true for HZ.

All games have people asking for where stuff is..its just how it is. doy!

[refuse]

Why not have a mechanism in game to make and sell maps? Some sort of pointer file equivalent. That way budding cartographers could even make money from their work.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Awesome idea!

[imported_tjl]

I enjoyed the time long ago when there was no map. It made explorations much more fun, and helped make a tighter community, since certain people could explain how to get somewhere, if you have not been there before. But that is just how I felt. I'm sure there are others out there who think the opposite.

[Silvanas_starlight]

I don't understand the dislike for it. I love it. The ingame maps are ugly. And just like censorship, if you don't like it don't use it/watch it/etc. And don't begrudge people who use it. What business is it of yours if people use it? It's very handy for many things. Rescourses etc. And maybe some of us don't wish to wander for hours looking for things. And before you jump down my throat my toons are almost broke. It's not like I am using it to gain wealth. It's nice to know where a certain resource is with out spending a ton of copper porting all over looking for things. Also it is my money I pay monthly and who are you to dictatate how people spend thier ingame time?

[evilkarl]

Pre map days were funny I remember getting lost trying to work out how to get to the chinconis t2 golems and ending up in selen *chuckles* found a cool undead fort along the way though.

I don't begrudge anyone for using the map pack. I do however think telling people to get the map pack of the bat is not always a good thing.

[Cobal]

The current version of pekka's mappack shouldnt be a big performance hit at all.
Its only 6 mb small.
Smaller then the original maps even I think.
for me it isnt a big performance hit. In fact, it performes better then the original at on my box.
Some previous version was 60 megs, that was because something important was forgotten when making the map, compressing the map files was forgotten

[Tzael]

The current version of pekka's mappack shouldnt be a big performance hit at all.
Its only 6 mb small.
Smaller then the original maps even I think.
for me it isnt a big performance hit. In fact, it performes better then the original at on my box.
Some previous version was 60 megs, that was because something important was forgotten when making the map, compressing the map files was forgotten

It's not the size of the images that is the problem. It is the sheer number of markers. Take the healer tower for example. It's a very small area yet there's a tonne of markers for the resources and the gem golems located there. In that particular example it could easily be cut down to say 3 or 4 gem golem markers, and 3 or 4 resource node markers, just to define the general area.

Vanaondo likes to tout the fact that each new map pack has more and more markers. The last version for example he was advertising as 'now with over 3000 markers !!!'. It's a bit too much really, he should focus on minimal amounts of markers that still manage to convey just as much information. I'm pretty sure he could manage to sacrifice 750 to 1000 markers purely from unnecessary multiples of monster and resource node markers.

Well I've got a bone to pick with Entilzah... He stole my usual line about not being a cartographer [:@] j/k...

[Goriax]

I don't use the map pak. I'm quite capable of marking stuff myself.

It's been my repeated and painful experience that third party add-ons FREQUENTLY cause problems completely out of proportion to the value they add whether they be to operating systems, development platforms, or games. I never use add-ons in ANYTHING unless there is a real need. Which there isn't in this case.

[Darkgloom]

Using the map pack is like smoking, either you choose to or don't, it's a right. If ya don't like it, don't use it and don't complain about it. Those that complain about the map pack, are like those that complain about everything else they dont do or use, they just like to hear themselves talk. Either use it or don't use it and don't complain about it.

The reason for people telling others to use the Pekkas map, is because if you are asked every two minutes where something is, it severely interferes with your game. I'm one of those people that loves to help people, I make tools for noobs at no charge, just to enhance their gameplay, and may even drop a silver or two on 'em, but repeating the same thing over and over again gets tedious. Do you think, even out of game, that if someone was asked constantly where things are that that person wouldn't start telling people to go buy a map? What if people kept coming to you home and work and kept inturrupting you every couple of minutes asking you where things were in your neighborhood, wouldn't you get tired of it?

Sure, if someone wants to take the pure exploration route, they should do that. I figure that if someone is asking me directions, then they aren't trying to explore and find everything themselves, thus I recommend the Pekkas Map. I totally understand that the newer players may not think that you are being asked every couple of minutes by people just like them about this or that, and it's not their fault, but I WILL recommend the map pack to those that ask directions to something because I'm NOT going to have my game ruined by anyone. Besides that, half the people you tell directions to forget the directions you gave them and ask you again halfway there.

I assume that eventually there will be a dev-made new official map of Istaria as the game picks up more speed. If Istaria had been around for a long time, there'd be a map made anyway, when you need to go somewhere in real life, don't you look up directions?

Darkgloom

[Raeshlavik]

Tryagain or anyone else..

How did you find mobs in WoW or EQ2 or <insert other MMO>? Did you go and download a map pack, did you ask existing players or did you try and find them yourself?.

There are things worth seeing in istaria that are not in any way related to mobs it is a rather beatiful land in some parts

I think ruling out exploring as something people do in an MMO is foolish as I know people who prefer to do that.

Well, there is a little bit of a difference I've noted between %MMO% and Horizons in this regard... in %MMO% you get what are essentially 'quests on rails' where the quest text and any associated UI quest log stop just short of giving one the actual coordinates of the critter you're questing for.

For example, in WoW you would get something like: "Greetings young warrior. %Three Paragraphs of Flavor Text%. Go south down the Gold Road to Thousand Needles where you'll find the town of Freewind Post. Once you are there, find the Centaur camp to the north west of the town, just off the road, and kill 20 of them." And at any time you can pull up most this entire dialog in your UI quest dialog.

In Horizons you get: "You suck. Kill 40 grass beetles near %CITY% and I'll train you." And you'd better write that down because the UI quest dialog merely says "Kill 40 grass beetles [0/40]"

Now here's the rub: Whereis %CITY%? There's 20-something cities on 5 or so continents that don't all have connecting portals and it's going to cost youmoney for each attempt, there's a 50/50 chance the beetles wont be near a road once you get to %CITY%, once you get off a road your travel time goes up by a factor of three, there's an 80% chance that while you're out looking for them you get killed by something in the level 70+ range, and the beetles won't spawnuntil you're standing in the middle of them.

So, the map pack does have it's place in reducing the frustration of players coming to Horizons from other MMOs where the quest system is a bit more polished.

There's also a perception problem with what I concider to be a bonus in Horizons: You can traverse the entire world... Let me explain.

In Horizons you can go *anywhere*... Just start walking. Every hundred miles of terrain is 100% explorable. In other MMOs the player can only access about 50% of every 100 square miles due to 'pathed' encounter areas.

Pathed areas are areas that are set up to channel players along specific routes between landmarks. For example I'll use the Barrens in WoW: The area is essentially a road between two impassable mountain ranges. If you tell someone to "go south to the great lift", they simply cannot miss this landmark if they go south because the entire zone channels players to that choke point.

In Horizons if you tell someone in Dralk to "go north west to the great volcano" (which the quest leaves out the north west part) they will most likely miss it completly, repeatedly.

So, for some players, the map pack is all that stands between them playing Horizons and having fun, and getting frustrated and playing City of Villains.

[imported_Frith-Rae]

aye, I like exploring and all that - its fun when I have time for it and all..

but its beyond frustration to turn exploring into a "can't find this spawn for two hours and I've looked everywhere in the vicnity of "NW of blabhlah town"...

In addition, its even more frustrating for me to try and "hunt" for an hour crafting resources.

Yes, the Mappack is a "shortcut" of course, it tells you easily where stuff is so you can go directly to it and not have to spend hours searching, which to me is great, as like I said, I hate searching for hours with nothing to show for it (but I have done it, for certain named mobs, waiting for them to pop, stopping every dozen yards and sitting there waiting for the mobs to appear...mmm..fun.../sarcasm off).

And as others have said, after someone asks you for printpos for the fifth time (because they don' twant directions, they want exact locations) - I give them directions, or printpos, and then I SUGGEST the option of "Hey if you look in the forums there is a mappack that will help you...."

I always try and answer their question immediatley, and then just let them know that the tool is there if they want to access it. If they don't, that's fine too :).

I have never answered a question with "go get the mappack"

[Runtus]

It is not a matter of learning how to fish or taking the easy road. The Pekkas download is an alternative and its their choice. Whether or not they use it is again their choice. If you dont like using it, good for you, thats your choice. Let players decide for themselves whether to start/continue using Pekkas map or not.

[Darkgloom]

It is not a matter of learning how to fish or taking the easy road. The Pekkas download is an alternative and its their choice. Whether or not they use it is again their choice. If you dont like using it, good for you, thats your choice. Let players decide for themselves whether to start/continue using Pekkas map or not.

Absolutely! My sentiments exactly!

Darkgloom

[Dhalin]

As other posters have said above, the amount of lag and teleportation delays in Horizons discourage us from "wasting" a bunch of time exploring. Who likes to walk and walk and walk over sprawling meadows, hills, and half-built plots out in the middle of nowhere?

Exploration is for high level characters, characters who can take a bunch of aggro. For your Lv10, Lv20, Lv30 characters, they cannot -afford- to explore, especially with the new proposed Death Point changes. Now death is even MORE costly, and the last thing I want as a Lv26 character, is to run into Lv40+ mobs while trying to find a freaking T2 resource that is sensibly close to the machines I need. So I either ask, which I hate doing. Sure, asking people is a good way to find out, but then I start to feel like I was handed everything. So I seek ways of finding out Myself that don't involve my DRAGON character getting whupped by some little spider or beetle or [insert small mob name here] just because it has a higher "level" number than my dragon does.

That and when you first enter Istaria for your very first time, you aren't really given very much info. A few tutorials that show you the basics of your school, and your craft, you are dumped on New Trismus (Skalkaar first if you're a dragon) and from there, you get very little, if any clues as to where to go next. That's why I asked up and down in other forums for them to Please add quests in NT that start at Lv10 that point you to Kion, and when you reach, say, Lv20 in Kion, have them point you to Dalimond, etc. That way, you have a CLUE as to where to go. I'm not saying they should tell you to go to xxxxxx/yyyyy area and kill zzzz mob. They could at least give you town names as suggestions of where to quest next. And Crafters... they SHOULD give you ideas of where to find your resources next. Say you had just reached Lv20 in, oh, X craft. That crafting trainer should say something like "You've about learned all you can here. If you feel you are ready for harder materials, my collegue in [insert town name here] could probably teach you more." and such.

That way, you have an "In Character" reason for knowing to go to Scorpion Isle for T2, etc. It makes Much Much more sense. That way you don't feel so dang lost in this huge world. And maybe the Final Tier, leave that open to be explored. Maybe the previous Tier goes "You are becoming a master at your craft, there's nothing more I can teach you. Explore the world and work to master your craft, maybe you can teach me someday!" Or something like that. Then let the Lv80+ crafters explore to find their final tier resources.

--Dhalin