A LIST OF THINGS TO SAVE THE GAME!!! CUSTOMERSERVICE READ THIS!!

[PJ]

You're suppossed to say Froglips!

[j-Xiti]

Cities do exists in the form player built communities

Horizons is pretty much a roleplayng game. PvP content would not really fit well with this game format.

Never been to SWG so I don't know how player cities work there. I can only assume players are able to control the cities, taxes and building permissions there with a stricter hand.

I left Star Wars Galaxies. Player cities were a joke. Mostly just costly to maintain, and just a way for players to use massive amounts of storage. A good idea really, at the start

But, more importantly: they're empty ghost towns. Even the biggest Metropolis was vacant. The idea was to create a living thriving world with players controlling their own politics in theyr'e own cities, townships, outposts, villages, or giant Metros -- role play.

But it never happened. Why? Jedi. Mounts. Vehclies. Ships = Better more agressive PvP.
Noone wanted to roleplay Star Wars, they just wanted fight with ligtsabers as Jedi and fly ships, that's it. The game had so much potential. Then it just became an EverQuest-in-Space Deathmatch . That was no fun.

[Pharcellus]

the population of HZ don't represent even 1% of gamers out there. so yeah they know what they're talking about.

Assuming, of course, that 100% of the reason people left Horizons was due to no PvP (or for that matter, refuse to play Horizons SOLELY for that reason).

In that one hypothetical situation, what you say makes sense. Outside of it, it is meaningless.

At least we know what world you come from, Phillip.

Just repeat to yourself: Horizons isn't Diablo II and battle.net, and everything will be OK. [;)]

[Phillip]

assume nothing.

to cater to those still puttsing around merrily and scoff at every dislike, they, say, few, very few, few as in oh my god where are the rest? didn't this world once had thousands?tens of thousands?

and a frog with half a brain andlarge lips says proudly: "yes, and dragons were ancients 180 days ago!"

woopiefriggindoo.

[Rainspider]

You can't mention pvp in this game or people start crying. They don't even want to hear about controled PvP. They say people will leave, but it would also bring people at the same time. It just isn't what they want, so they vote against it, there have been many forums about this topic. What it basically boils down to, is people in this game only want what will benefit them directly. Most of the upper lvl people here are now happy that it is hard to PL because they have already done it and dont have to worry about it effecting them anymore. If you read most of the forums here you will see that all the people complaing about changes, are people that have been around forever and already have good character, plots, tons of coin and everything long term players have. I could care less either way, if they make a change and i dont like it, i have the option to quit. I quite UO after almost 8 yrs because of changes. Some people are just afraid that if they make a change and they quit, they will actully have to get a life, some people just move on to other games.

[Rainspider]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Rainspider wrote: Some people are just afraid that if they make a change and they quit, they will actully have to get a life, some people just move on to other games.

And some people simply dispise PvP and everything about it and ESPECIALLY the "Type" of new people it would draw to the game. Which for the most part are the exact people you would never ever want to associate with on any level.

I can agree that it brings alot of bad people. I myself like pvp because it is a challenge. I played Uo for almost 8 yrs and had pvp characters, No i didnt just kill anyone, we would set up battles and most people we killed were friends, once we died we would get rezzed and start over. it was always fun> i was on the other end too when i first started and got killed all the time. UO eventually set up a pvp side of the game or made it where only waring guilds could kill eachother. if you were chaos, you could kill order and if you were order you could kill chaos. Noone around could be dmged by either. there are ways to do it where you only got killed if you wanted to pvp. I dont think anyone is saying to make the entire game pvp and free to kill everyone, That is no fun. There is no challenge in killing someone that cant defend them self, nor is there a gain in it. You can't say everyone that plays pvp is bad. Most people on my shard know me and like me very much. I help everyone i can. Im not a teenager nor on a power trip. Just keep in mind pvp is not always for people to just random kill. some of us like it because it if more challenging to kill something that has a brain and can react instead of doing the same thing over and over. I mean hell i can kill things about 10-20 lvls higher then me useing the same exacte 3 attacks over and over again. It gets boring.

[imported_Ssilmath]

If you are bored, try killing something 30 levels above you...it's possible, but always a challenge...Try taking on different mobs...I assure you the tactics that beats a golem won't work on a beetle, or on wolves, or on WA...

[Phillip]

and what type of people that's being drawn to the game right now?

dare we compare to the type of people already left, on the verge of and/or leaving?

whatkept the current player base happy atm isn't neccessarily good for the future of this game, or is adding something more will make this game like any other.

[Daedra]

They cant risk alienating the current player base on the *chance* (and yes thats all it is) that PvP will draw in more players. They have players now, without them currently there would be nothing and a lot of them hate/dislike/want nothing to do with PvP.

[Phillip]

yeah, they have players now alright..

[Pharcellus]

I understand the concept of challenge in PvP and what it can provide... in theory.

I don't necessarily have a problem with limited PvP, like a PvP arena, even in HZ. HOWEVER....

...I don't want to hear whine #1 about class balance FOR PvP. We don't have class balance EVEN FOR PvE right now, and I have no desire to see the rest of the PvE world languish whilst the devs slave away screwing the PvE part of the game up just to satisfy the PvPers. That has killed more subscriptions in other games (AC1/2, for example) than HZ ever had.

...I don't want to hear asshat #1 start up with the trash talk against ANY player, trying to goad someone who doesn't want to be involved into going PvP for WHATever reason. First offense.. banned. No recourse. Bye! (it's called harassment, btw, and is already well-defined in the rules).

Since we all know, from example, that I have ZERO chance of getting MY wishes if PvP comes into HZ, I don't think that those who wish for PvP should get theirs, either.

I know that some people who do enjoy PvP are quite mature about it and I can get along fine with them; the problem is that they don't represent the majority of people who clamor for it. Not to mention that HZ would make for a lousy PvP game anyway. Thus, in my opinion, bringing in PvP would alienate many of the remaining players to the point of quitting (*raises claw*), and would not sustain even the influx of PvP players for very long, leaving the game with even fewer subs in the long term.

[Pharcellus]

and what type of people that's being drawn to the game right now?

dare we compare to the type of people already left, on the verge of and/or leaving?

whatkept the current player base happy atm isn't neccessarily good for the future of this game, or is adding something more will make this game like any other.

Yeah, the typical Phillip mantra:

"Waaaaaaaahh! Everybody left and won't be coming back because of <insert current topic here>!! If the game had done <insert current topic here> right, no one would have left!!"

I could automate you with a script. [8-)]

Fact is, Phillip, people left the game for a VARIETY of reasons, many of them for more than a single reason. Adding loot, PvP, et cetera WILL attract some segment of the world-wide MMOG playerbase (back) to Horizons, however, NO ONE THING caused everyone to leave, NOR will resolving/fixing/adding/removing it cause everyone to come (back).

Take a moment and look beyond your "me me" complex for once.

[Phillip]

"Fact is, Phillip, people left the game for a VARIETY of reasons, many of them for more than a single reason. Adding loot, PvP, et cetera WILL attract some segment of the world-wide MMOG playerbase (back) to Horizons, however, NO ONE THING caused everyone to leave, NOR will resolving/fixing/adding/removing it cause everyone to come (back)."

fact is, brightness, that i never said people left because of ONE THING. nor, did i state that resolving/fixing/adding/removing it cause everyone to come (back). though, that's a ******** good idea.

imagine, a fun Istaria.

bottom line here is this: there's no merit in what you been saying. the world population, the way things have been, the way things are, is proof. a Cuban chihuahua could tell you that.

[Rainspider]

They cant risk alienating the current player base on the *chance* (and yes thats all it is) that PvP will draw in more players. They have players now, without them currently there would be nothing and a lot of them hate/dislike/want nothing to do with PvP.

then apparently you dont understand the concept of PVP. it is player verses player, it has thought to do with hate. I like fighting players because it is harder then creatures. Players have the ability to heal and cast counter spells and do counter attacks. Not only that, every player is set up differently. As a dragon in hz, i can take out most creatures with gr, ss and ravage over and over. with fighting people, they are smart enough to change fighting style when a certain on hurts them alot. From what im gathering, there arent that many people that play hz anyway. Now look at the mumbers of people that play pvp type game. I would say they have alot more on at any given time then hz ever does. Besides, why would people leave hz if the pvp didnt affect them directly. Uo had 2 ingame guilds that you can join, Order and chaos. If you want to pvp you just join one of those and you can attack the other at will. noone that is not in the guilds can be touched. How could something like this hurt the game? It cant, if you dont want to pvp, dont join the waring guilds. UO also allowed player guilds to war, but had to be accepted by both guilds. IF guildA wanted to war guildB they would send a request and quildB could accept or decline the offer. I just get sick of people saying that pvp will bring bad players to the game. News flash, there are already some bad people in the game. PVP isnt bad. It is just missunderstood by those that dont know evrything about it. I dont think anyone has ever suggested opening up hz for mass kill by pvpers. suggestios have been made for a conrtoled pvp and yet there are still whiners that cry about it even though it wont affect them the slightest bit.

[Daedra]

But it *will* affect all players. You cannot honestly say it wont. Firstly there are issues with balance, the classes are not balanced right now and until they are adding PvP will only worsen/highlight the issue more.
Secondly the type of player is attracts. I know that not all PvP'ers are bad people. Im not that naive, however it does attract a larger percentage of the "l33t kiddies" then hz currently attracts. Considering a lot of players I know play hz due to the community and its maturity level attracting such elements are a bad idea.
Thirdly, there are a lot of things that hz needs but one thing it definately has is a lack of staff. PvP *may* bring in more players, but there is no guarantee it will and there are many other things the staff need to work that has been promised (which PvP has not) that is still not ingame. Epic Quests, ARoP, lairs, racial structures, end game, etc.

[Phillip]

[:|]

[Entilzah]

Ok another post stripped off, please folks, stop baiting each other. It *is* possible to discuss PvP without trying to bait your debating opponent into getting frustrated.

[Pharcellus]

Fine.

It is bullshit that PvP will do anything significant to "save" this game. Period. Doesn't matter if you like PvP or not, the GAME was not DESIGNED to support it from the get-go, it would take a massive dev effort to make it work, and we can't get resolution for problem players as it is NOW, let alone the asshats that come as a result of adding PvP.

There. Debate that, "brightness".

[belezar]

1. ADD PVP. Ok first of all you have 3 types of players that play mmorgp, they are the following. a] the minors and just play to pass time and for fun. b] the Adults who play to pass time and stress releave. and, c] adults and minors who are just either new to the game orhave no time to mmorpgs. But the problem with all MMORPGS is not what they offer but how long can they keep offering stuff to you. The average player only plays 6 months and moves on because of boredom.
I think adding PVP to this game will solve the boredom rule.

I disagree, personally I dislike PvP because it adds a whole new dimension to attempt to balance the new facet of the game. You may want to try Shadowbane or DAoC for pvp althought the TOA expansion for Camelot went a long way to disenfranchise many PvP players. Which just goes to show how easy it is to much up PvP.

2. ADD PLAYERCREATED CITIES. When I say this most people arleady think they know what it is. Look at Starwars Galaxies and how soe did the player cities there, that is what im talking bout, adding this gives the players alot more to do, and politics and full control over what the city looks likes and becomes.

I like this idea.

3. ADD VET REWARDS. Ok we have all seen the reports of how SONY is going to crap on the MMORPG and make it so that players can just use reallife money to buy levels, armor, and ingame money. DONT DO THIS TO ISTARIA!! Ok to keep people happy add a special options menu that pops up on players whos accounts are over 3 months, then 6 months, then 12 months old with differnt rewards that they can pick from. This reward would relap so that after having an account for 12 months, it will redo a reward in 3 more months. Yes this sounds silly but it keeps alot of players $$$ into the game and keeps the game based on game time and skills rewards instead of ebayed stuff and reallife money bought items.

Another good idea, you could have a basket of techs, weapons, armour, resources, jewlery anything that a player could choose from. You could get 100 points and each item has a point value. You could save your points from quarter to quarter, to get a nicer item for example. THIS IS A REALLY TOP NOTCH IDEA.

4. ADD MOUNTS< VECHILES< WAR STRUCTURES. WOW this says it all, If Isteria would add PVP and make it so you get a wide range of vechiles, and mounts, both pvp types and non pvp you would keep alot of players happy and certainly unbored. The sturcutures are a new concept that many mmorpgs are looking into, basicaly you make it so a player can create a tower, or a barracks that would be used in pvp wars.

The only way I could agree with PvP is have a separate server and every time you log in 3 or 4 big splash pages about not whining about how one class or skill is unbalanced or needs nerfing etc.... Im not a big fan of PvP did it in DAoC and people have hacks like RADAR and there are griefers who hang around just to make life miserable not playing in the spirit of the game, so yeah I think PvP presents too many problems.

5. ADD PVP MENULIST, PVP REWARDS, AND PVP TITLES> Yes alot of this is towards pvp, but 70% of the serious players are all about pvp. Add a reward for pvp where there is a tracker menu that followers your progress, and gives you points, you could use the points for pvp rewards such as spells, equip, and weapons.

Im a serious player, I play alot of hours and enjoy my time on MMOG's I've done the PvP thing in DAoC and Neverwinter servers for me it's no big deal. Get the right build and the right group read the forums on how to plan and execute attacks, tactics etc.. it's not rocket science.

If 70% of serious players are about PvP then why is EQ and EQ2 subscription so high compared to Shadowbane and DAoC. Why are there more Neverwinter PvE servers on offer with players on them than the corresponding PvP servers.

I think it;s pretty clear that PvE is the preferred form of game play by the MAJORITY of the game market, serious or not.

6. ISSUE OUT A FORUM FOR VETERAN ACCOUNT HOLDERS INPUT> Listen, if you haven't noticed many companies are copying other mmorpg's and in doing so they are also making the players and paying customers get bored even with new ideas and games, because they are just copies of older ideas and mmorpgs.....why not just invite vet account holders into a forum and discuss and get new ideas bout what we really want, instead of having some 35 year old overweight bald game programmer tell you in a meeting. You can make a HUGE Comback i promise because SONY FOOKED Up hardcore losing over 100k members from everquest and Starwars galaxies, this means alot of players are sick of the coping, and corprate crap. your logo should be "The customers are always right" and you will never go wrong.

Everquest is what six years old. I think the biggest thing holding horizons back is still technical issues like their lag. Mabye Hz need to redo their world to incorporate ZONES (aggghh) but if it stops lag I can live with zones.

Not all programmers are fat and bald, in any event the designers will decide what to implement and the programmers just do as they are told.

7. ADD GM EVENTS AND MORE OF THEM. Add some events that your game masters can make up for themselves with rewards, or prizes. Im not talking bout programming new patches with changes that are temporary. I am talking about having a GM log into the world and host a event and broadcast it over the entire game world, with a time and place to meet, the events could be anything from duels, to gm quests, to wars.....free your mind.

Another good idea, having played alot of Neverwinter servers, I must say that GM events were a refreshing break from the standard in game fare.

I hope all this helps, I am seeing so many other companies copy and make up stuff that we players are getting so sick of that all together the mmorpg race for best game is anyones win now. SOE pioneered the mmorpg with Everquest, now that is old news and the game is a joke, I am pulling for you Horizons, I wish you tons of LUCK hope this helps thank you so much for reading[code language="vb"][/code][code language="c#"][/code]

I like alot of your ideas, and feedback like this is important. I really disagree on the PvP issue though. I think Hz has alot of PvE problems to iron out before heading into the PvP quagmire.

You may want to check out Shadowbane I've heard that it's settled down into a nice solid PvP environment and then you have class forms of PvP like counter strike, doom and Quake.

Anyhow good post because it shows someone is thinking about the game. [Y][Y][Y][Y][Y]

[belezar]

then apparently you dont understand the concept of PVP. it is player verses player, it has thought to do with hate. I like fighting players because it is harder then creatures. Players have the ability to heal and cast counter spells and do counter attacks. Not only that, every player is set up differently. As a dragon in hz, i can take out most creatures with gr, ss and ravage over and over. with fighting people, they are smart enough to change fighting style when a certain on hurts them alot. From what im gathering, there arent that many people that play hz anyway. Now look at the mumbers of people that play pvp type game. I would say they have alot more on at any given time then hz ever does. Besides, why would people leave hz if the pvp didnt affect them directly. Uo had 2 ingame guilds that you can join, Order and chaos. If you want to pvp you just join one of those and you can attack the other at will. noone that is not in the guilds can be touched. How could something like this hurt the game? It cant, if you dont want to pvp, dont join the waring guilds. UO also allowed player guilds to war, but had to be accepted by both guilds. IF guildA wanted to war guildB they would send a request and quildB could accept or decline the offer. I just get sick of people saying that pvp will bring bad players to the game. News flash, there are already some bad people in the game. PVP isnt bad. It is just missunderstood by those that dont know evrything about it. I dont think anyone has ever suggested opening up hz for mass kill by pvpers. suggestios have been made for a conrtoled pvp and yet there are still whiners that cry about it even though it wont affect them the slightest bit.

Limited PvP to certain areas like DAoC or a seperate server, with the proviso that people not whine about balance issues is fine by me.

What I would hate to see is a global style PvP where for example my lvl 100 war 100 cleric gets jumped by a group of four or five immature people and killed or I've just fought a battle and am low on health and get jumped for some easy sport. This is simply griefing and my biggest problem with global PvP.

I also agree with many posters that PvP would be a MASSIVE RESOURCE SINK, I would rather have dev's focus efforts on things such as lag and collision detection for mobs going through walls mountain sides etc.. Heck I'd rather see dev's adding more content than even considering adding PvP.

I would humbly submit that PvP would open a pandoras box of ongoing issues I would rather see the current PvE model made more solid.