NB connie

[gusi]

Last night after the community meeting, I decided to put on some tools (3 of each, excepting the Salvage Awl and Alteration Wand) aswell as 11 Flaxen Sacks, 11 Rough Leather Backpacks and 10 Rough Hide Satchels. I would've put more on (armor and whatnot), but I almost hit the connie limit with just the stuff listed above - perhaps a few others could take care of Armor/Weapons/Jewelry/etc.

Sales so far, after 11-12 hours on the shelves, include:
1 Scissors
2 Spigot
2 Tongs
2 Needle
2 Smithing Hammer
2 Board Plane
2 Brew Stirrer
1 Shaper
1 Siphon
1 Structurer
1 Glassblowing Rod
1 Mortar and Pestle
3 Mining Pick
3 Bucket
3 Fishing Pole
1 Rough Leather Backpack

Not sure if this is good or not, but the weekend is coming up, so we'll see how it goes after that. I'll post the results of tomorrows notetaking on this thread.

Side note: I put the tools on for 25c ea, Flaxen Sacks for 50c ea, Rough Hide Satchels for 400c ea and Rough Leather Backpacks for 500c ea.

[Tokoz]

Woohoo!

I'm anxious to get some numbers on how much sold. I know I sent a couple of new players to that connie because I knew there was gear there. :)

[Frisco]

Thank you Gusi! I can't tell you how fabulous the work you did was on this! I was just about to write up a post about this same thing. After the community meeting it was decided weneed to begin making sure the connies are stocked a bit better. All I can say is after just a few hours the connie had 40% more goods and that was just that day.

I as well am interested in finding out these numbers.

But, as Gusi said, it is too much work for one player to do alone, we need all you tier1 crafters out there to help out by selling your wares on the connie! You will make coin too! There's no need to give them away, we DO want to keep a market for the goods you make. Please if you can, make something that the connie doesn't have, stock it with two or three, mabye they will sell right away who knows!

After we get new Brommel up to speed, we will begin on the next town(Most likely New Trismus), or whichever has a high population of new players, and begin to restock that connie. Together we can get players back in the game! and help to ease new ones in!

Thanks All!

Sincerely,
Frisco of the Dark Watchers
Member of the New Player Assistance Team

[Senkeleron Fell]

The one problem I can see is that the very low prices completely destroy any chance of new players making some money by selling things they make into the "economy" (such as it is). So basically you are training all new players to make things and do pawnbroker runs to get money because they can't compete with the low prices. Is that really your intention?

[Tokoz]

Senkeleron,

I don't believe they are selling them for less than the pawnbroker pays.

This is a decision that was made at the last community meeting. The intention is not at all to ruin the new player economy, the intention is in two parts.

1) Make sure that players are provided with the tools and equipment they need on the consigners at fair prices.

2) Work with new players so that we start having them take over the job of placing items on the consigners. Some things, like tinkered items, might have to be constantly placed there by more experienced players, but the rest is up in the air.

If you're interested in more information on this issue, and want to make additional suggestions, other than the ones you're welcome to make on the board, I suggest you contact either Asteral or Frisco in game. They are the Team Leaders of the new Community New Player Assistance Team.

Also, since you do have such strong feelings about protecting the community interest (which I want to add is a very good thing) if you weren't able to make the last Community Meeting, I'd like to invite you to attend the next one. It will be at 8pm Eastern 30 June in the Tazoon Arena.

Economy is definitely a concern we all share as a community.

[imported_asteral]

The problem with the economy was...there IS NO economy. New players were NOT keeping the connie stocked in NB. There were no tools. Very litle armor. Almost NO dragon items (Except those made by high level crafters) So what economy are we damaging by stocking it? There was almost nothing on that connie. Ever, unless it was put there by some higher level crafter who got bored or wanted to help. So untill we can get more lower level crafters in on this team, well in the GAME first, I don't see as how this program is going to destroy the economy.....

[Senkeleron Fell]

I have no problems stocking the starter island connies, it is a great idea and sometimes when I have a chance I do it myself. But you need to price the things just a little bit higher so that new players feel they can "undercut" you. With a price at about 25c a player can go out and whack a node for a tiny amount of time and bring the ore back to the pawnbroker and then buy the item. So if he actually takes the ore, makes bars, makes the item and tries to sell it on the connie, he also has to sell it at that 25c price or lower. Is that worth his time? I think when I started playing when the game first came out, unteched bronze tools were going for about 100c each. That seemed about right.

[Levity]

A comment about stocking the other Training Isles: I recently made a new character so as to hold onto a plot with my new account. I trained her up in Scout, just for the heck of it. And I was surprised to learn that the tutorial portal now *only* leads to New Brommel. While you can go to the other training isles from New Brommel, you won't have the choice at the very beginning.

Therefore, it is unlikely that truly new players will be doing a lot of shopping at New Trismus, New Vasserak, or New Koraelia. Heck, I don't think I've ever seen New Koraelia with any of my toons, let alone shopped there.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to stock those connies just in case, but I predict a lot of vault returns *grin*

-Levity Merrel, Crai Aisling, Sans AoP by Aiya's pad
100 Blacksmith/79 Fitter/45 Mason/45 Carpenter/25 Scholar/14 Weaver/13 Enchanter
100 Reaver/54 Ice Disciple

[Senkeleron Fell]

Here are some numbers to think about. I took my level 20 spellcrafter character and got a couple levels of blacksmith. Here is what a new player is looking at as far as making tools and selling them-

A low level blacksmith makes boards at 5 to 1.

A cedar board plane takes 10 boards to make.

That means it takes 50 cedar logs (50c at the pawnbroker) to make that one tool.

Why would a new character even try to sell something on the connie if the prices are lower than what he can get from the pawnbroker for the raw materials?

[Tokoz]

Senkeleron,

As I said before. You're concern is a good thing. It shows that you care about the community. What I think needs to be acknowledged is that Gusi's and other's efforts are being done for the good of the community.

Now whether it is actually for the good or not, is open to discussion. Again, I suggest you volunteer for the team with Asteral and Frisco and visit the next Community Meeting. Make suggestions and discuss them with the team. Listen to what the others have to say about it.

At the lowest levels, the truth is that the best way for the player to make money is to take the raw resource and sell it to the pawn broker, because the pawn doesn't pay based on 5 to 1 crafting. I agree with you on that. Most things that sell on the consigner, though, are sold to help other players more than for personal gain. (Possible exception being some bipeds selling hoardables, but let's not go there, shall we? :p :p :p) Those who really want to make money in the game sell resources to the pawn broker...

That's bad. That's not community minded and it doesn't help the economy at all, but it's a hard cold truth.

So what I suggest is that we start here. We don't want to show the players that the best way make money is off consigners. Why? Because we'd be lying to them. We show the players that the consigner is a way to make some money, but also a way to help out the community. We do that by example and by talking to them while they are in the New Player chat channel.

If you build a sense of community, you can build an economy. If you have no community, than there can be no economy.

[gusi]

You're right Senk. Though one of the main reasons I put 'em on so cheap was because there were already tools on there for 25c. I was going to put them on for 50c, but which do you think a newbie would buy?

Next batch, I'll put the easiest ones (6 resources) for 50c, easy ones (8 resources) for 65c, hard ones (10 resources) for 80c and hardest ones (12 resources) for 95c. I think that's "fair".

[gusi]

Ok, these are the results after about 36 hours on the connie. These include the results from yesterday (I have not restocked anything as of yet).

3 Scissors
3 Harvest Knife
3 Spigot
3 Tongs
3 Needle
3 Smithing Hammer
3 Chisel
3 Board Plane
3 Brew Stirrer
3 Shaper
3 Siphon
2 Structurer
1 Glassblowing Rod
1 Mortar and Pestle
3 Mining Pick
3 Bucket
3 Fishing Pole
8 Rough Leather Backpack
2 Gem Cutter
2 Wood Saw
5 Flaxen Sack
3 Rough Hide Satchel
3 Axe

I think the Flaxen Sacks are a little cheap too. Will bump those up to 100c ea next batch. But those are some good results, imo.

[Frisco]

Se, if you're concerned about the low prices, what's from stopping said new crafter from buying the extra low item and then instantly reselling it for 50c instead of 25c, making easy quick money?

[AmonGwareth]

Just wanted to point out to everyone (particularly Levity who posted about this) that only the BIPED tutorial leads to New Brommel. The Dragon tutorial leads to New Trismus.

- Amon

[gusi]

Hey! Get back to the Chaos forums Amon! ;):p

Btw, I noticed this too with Fennin.. Why does it only go to NB?

[mbaucco]

speaking as a new player, I have to say that it is great that you are stocking the connies! I was afraid I would have to multi-class just to make my basic tools.

-Matt

ps: I need a bucket :P

[Levity]

Thanks for the clarification, Amon. OK, so we should stock scales and scalepacks and claws in New Trismus ... *grin*

Gusi, I think the reasoning is that with a choice of four places and no guidance, new folk were getting scattered and finding empty lands. I know that at launch, with tons of people, all new, I went to New Trismus because that was the one a friend had randomly chosen. Ever since then, New Trismus was my starter isle for all toons. It was months before I even visited New Brommel, I only went to New Vasserak for the Imperial Test quest, and to this day I don't think I've seen New Koraelia.

So by "forcing" the choice, the new folk get a slightly more crowded start, thus dispelling some of the "this place is empty" complaints.

-Levity

[Senkeleron Fell]

You're right Senk. Though one of the main reasons I put 'em on so cheap was because there were already tools on there for 25c. I was going to put them on for 50c, but which do you think a newbie would buy?

Next batch, I'll put the easiest ones (6 resources) for 50c, easy ones (8 resources) for 65c, hard ones (10 resources) for 80c and hardest ones (12 resources) for 95c. I think that's "fair".

It is ok that there were some there that were 25c, and yes the customer would buy those first. What you want to try to make sure is that the tools are available, and at a reasonable price. Once the 25c tools are gone people will buy the next higher price, no problem. I think your prices are going in a good direction. Also, if you want to help new crafters, if you see 20 of some little item that a newbie is trying to sell, perhaps buy one or two.

It is kind of like what IBM did when they first brought out their PCs. They were probably double to triple the price of the clones. That is because IBM wasn't trying to corner the market, they just wanted to be in the market. It stimulated lots of business because everyone could undercut IBM. Because it was such a small part of their business, IBM didn't care if their sales were low in PCs, just that there were sales sometimes.

[Ennakae]

Hi!

Let me say first of all that the concept of a New Player Assistance Team is great. I second mbaucco's pleasure in seeing the consigners stocked over the past few days. Also, I agree with Senk to some extent, and as a new player, so I will elaborate.... On the one hand, I don't care about the money at this point because there isn't any reason for me to - Iam in basic training, as it were, and can't think of much I need but space. (This might be a personal thing.) On the other hand, until I read thisthread I had no idea that making things and selling them on the consigners wasn't the main way people made money. I was one of the people sellingcrafted items on the NB consignerfor 25c the other day -- itemsIknew were 150c a few days ago. It disappointed me somewhat, because I was proud of my new ability to make anything beyond spools. It wasn't really about the cash, however.

I did go toother places toplace the rest of my baby armour [:P], but really, I suppose the best way to deal with stocking the connies from a newbie point of view is to combineall the abovegreat thoughts from concerned established players:

*Make sure NB is stocked, but don't go below a certain price. This helps give newbies an idea of reasonable pricing,yet still offersthemthat chance to puff up with the indubitable feeling of independence the first time theymake a"homemade sale." [:)]

*Keep the connies stocked, but morenumerously andmore often with tools, resources from other lands, incidentals, weaponry, and other items theywon't likely be ableto make themselvesunder level 10, but will still probably need.


Thanks guys!
Ennakae

[gusi]

Pretty much the same sales as yesterday, excepting 1 Fitting Mallet/Masonry Trowel/Rune Stylus/Weaving Awl, 4 Flaxen Sacks, 3 Rough Leather Backpacks and perhaps a few other tools.

The most unpopular things are Carpentry Hammers, Jewelry Pliers, Tinkering Spanners and Clay Scoops.

So, these studies give me the idea that I should put at least 5 of some tools (like Mining Pick and Smelting Tongs, etc.) and only 1 of others (above listed). Perhaps some sort of study like this could be done with armor, jewelry, etc..