Dhalin's Kiting Guide.

[Dhalin]

I've run into a lot of people in Horizons who said things like "huh? What's that?" when I mention the word "Kiting" or "Kite" in reference to battle strategies, so I thought I'd post a basic guide here in the forums.

But first of all, just what is "Kiting" and what does it mean to "Kite" something?

Well, if an onlooker were to see you doing this with a mob, they might say that it looked like you were "flying a kite", only, without the string. Basically, the Kiter is running away from a mob that is chasing him.

But then, some may ask, "Why would you want to do that? That doesn't make much sense!". Ah, but it does. Now, before I go on further, I am going to say that since I play mainly a dragon in Horizons, that this is aimed at dragons more than bipeds, but I am putting it in General because there may be some bipeds who may want to try this out. I don't know every biped and every biped class and their abilities, so I'll use situations instead of abilities instead.

When to Kite a Mob.

1). The Mob does more damage to you, than you are doing to it. In this situation, you are going to die before the mob dies, and that's clearly not what you want. See #2 for more.

2). You need to buy time to Heal yourself. Combined with #1, a good time to kite a mob is when you are hurting and you need to heal yourself or let a Healing over Time spell heal you some more before you re-engage the enemy.

3). Your Big-Damage Abilities need those few extra seconds to recharge. I'm not sure what abilities like this Bipeds have, but with Dragons, Silver Strike and Gold Rage come to mind here. These abilities do Large Amounts of damage, but take a little bit to recharge, like 45 seconds I believe. A powerful mob can rip you into shreds within 45 seconds. Instead of standing there vainly flailing your weapon at it while its mauling you to pieces, why not kite it until those abilities are up again to minimize damage taken?

How to Kite a Mob.

So the question now becomes, "How do I kite a mob?". Well I can tell you that just normal running away isn't going to do it. Mobs move roughly the same speed as most races do, and will continue to hit you on the run. So, logically speaking, you must first put a little distance between you and the said mob. You can do this a number of ways:

1). Stun it. Dragons have the Tail Whip ability that stuns a mob for 3 seconds if it hits. You can use this 3 seconds to get away from it to put a little distance, enough to kite it, between you and the mob.

2). Use Sprint. If your Stun attack missed, or isn't available, or if you have no stun, every race (I think?) has Sprint. Be careful when sprinting though. I'll explain why later.

3). Lower the Mob's Movement Speed. I'm not sure what Biped Classes have these types of abilities, but you could use this instead.

4). Root the Mob. Use a Bind or Rooting attack to make the mob stand in place for a few moments. This works the same as Stunning it.

Okay, so now you have Stunned/Rooted/Sprinted/Whatever and have some distance between you and the mob. Now What? Well, the best thing to do, is to run in gradual large circles. If you run in a straight line, you are going to make the mob lose interest in you. When this happens, mobs begin to regenerate HP very quickly. On the upside, this ends the battle. On the Downside, we want to kill the mob. So to prevent this, we use large circles. If the circle is too tight, the mob is going to try to cut you off, but if the circle is gradual enough, it will keep following you instead of trying to cut you off.

Group Tips for Kiting.

There are some situations in groups when you may want to kite a mob as well. Generally, if the Tank (aka, whoever is currently getting beat on) is in danger of dying, the person may want to try to Kite the mob. They stun it or use Sprint, and everyone else piles onto the mob, and/or heal the Tank. Kiting is also very effective if your party has a lot of spellcasters, or ranged attackers as well. Basically, you have the Ranged Attackers stand in the center of the circle that the tank uses to kite the mob, meanwhile the ranged attackers and spellcasters throw spells and arrows at it while it chases the tank around the battlefield.

Just beware, though, after they do too much damage, the mob is going to change its mind, as its going to get tired of chasing something it can't catch, meanwhile, its getting pumped full of arrows and magic, and its going to decide to chew on something a little easier to reach.

Using the above Kiting Tactics, I've been able to take out some Named Mobs 5+ levels over me (which most people say can't be done). I know it works, though it takes practice. Be careful when kiting mobs in a hostile area, though. The last thing you want, is to get an add or two while trying to kite a mob around. Make sure you clear the area the best you can before you pull the mob you are about to kite.

--Dhalin

[Seranthor]

Nice guide, belongs in adventure forum..... however, as a dragon taking mobs 50+ rating higher than you IS entirely possible, without kiting. I've seen it and done it many times.

[Guaran]

kit mean Kill In Transit run around and use ranged attacks for a dictionary style definition.

[AA0]

I do find it kinda funny a dragon is the one to write a kiting guide... since it is something I do pretty much daily.

[Aamer Khan]

Ok, I'm not going to say that dragons cannot kite mobs, but I will say that they are not designed well to do it effectively. Kiting mobs is usually spoken of as being done by ranged fighters like archers and mages.

One key to understanding why I make this distinction, is the fact that Dhalin talks about using sprint. Most ranged fighters will rarely if ever use sprint. And will do so ONLY to leave off from fighting a mob. Nimble feet ( or wings if your a dryad ) allow a ranged fighter to back-peddle while facing a mob, or even circle a mob while still firing off arrows or spells.

Perhaps a better title for this post would be Dhalin's kiting guide for dragons? Then he just needs to adjust the text to mention only things that apply to dragons using his technique.

[AA0]

I will use sprint on some enemies, like mhedon who is stun immune (not that I really need to) but if you start with a flurry, and sprint back a full 50m, you can end up killing him before he ends up avalanching you... but sprint also tends to get you in more trouble, and kiting is often not the best way to fight unless you are fully aware of what is behind you, or whenever you are running.

[Justa Mirage]

Amen to that AAO

I have died several times running backwards blind trying to take out Veradios(sp?) the emerald gem golem... and running into his buddies, or his Peridot neighbors trying to get the heals / recharge on specials... stop and get creamed by an avalanche from another golem.

luckily if you are really in bad straights, a road bonus, sprint, nature's path, and your ranger +10 run ability at 38th level, with a good set of Speed V boots, will jet you out of most trouble as long as you don't have a nasty DoT on you :)

Yep.... Rangers (elars, scouts, crossbowmen) and Kiting go hand in hand.

[Dhalin]

That's why you don't backpedal. When I kite something, I do one of the following:

1). Run THROUGH him and then start gradual circles.
2). Turn around and Run. This costs you 1-2 seconds though.

Don't backpedal unless its required for your abilities (So far, I haven't seen an ability that forces you to face your enemy, at least not on the dragon side).

As to the person who said he found it odd a Dragon is posting this... well...

1). Dragons have next-to-no healing ability. We get Breezes that far far too slow healing to take out things that do 25% of our HP in one single hit. Instant Heal can only be used once every what, 5 minutes? And only heals about 20-30% of our life anyways.

2). They only have two Real damage abilities to use on these guys: Silver Strike and Gold Rage. Both having 45ish second recast.

As I said in my OP, the best thing a dragon can do while trying to kill something Big (a Named mob for instance), is to Gold Rage it, Silver Strike it, Tail Whip it and RUN. If your tail whip missed, use Sprint. But don't go too far. I like to run THROUGH the mob, and go big gradual circles and watch the Distance meter (its still on Attack. It'll say "10m out of range... 11m out of range... 12m out of range...) every time your character attempts to attack. I use that to keep an idea of where he is behind me. I try to keep him between 15-20m away from me until my Gold Rage/Silver Strike is up again, then I turn around and belt him with it. if I still have Sprint, now's the good time to use it, if Tail Whip isn't up yet.

--Dhalin

[Fireclaw]

Isn't tail whip a 2 second stun on a 30 second recycle? Doesn't seem to me like this one brief stun is going to be useful at all for kiting. By the time it wears off the dragon isn't going to be very far from the monster.... certainly not far enough to cast a ranged attack of any kind except instant debuffs or weak dragons reach before the monster is on top of the dragon again.... and at that point the dragon will have to wait at least 25 seconds for the next stun.

A dragon could try kiting with sprint, but sprint itself doesn't seem like it would lend itself as a practical tool for kiting. Its on a 5 minute timer so can only be used in special battles rather than every fight. Furthermore, if the target isn't snared, its closing speed is going to be very fast, making it hard to cast before the monster closes the distance even if you can somehow manage to get range. Sprint also doesn't last very long. Maybe 10 or 15 seconds at most. Not long enough to kite a monster for more than a couple spellcasts- certainly not long enough to do true kiting where you kill a monster without it hitting you, which could require 15 or even 20+ spellcasts from a dragon's rather weak spells.

Dragons don't really have the tools to kite effectively. They aren't meant for kiting. As a dragon, the best solution for attacking a melee monster is usually to get right in its face and go toe-to-toe with it. Sure our healing is weak, but we have a lot of melee abilities that make us very formidable in close combat against a single foe (gold rage, silver strike, vengeance chest scale, spiked scales, gold shield, breath of flame, breath of flameburst, etc.)

2). They only have two Real damage abilities to use on these guys: Silver Strike and Gold Rage. Both having 45ish second recast.

Um no,
Unless they changed it recently without me noticing, its always been:
Gold rage: 15 second recast
Silver strike 30 second recast

[PJ]

Well the recycle on lower level Gold Rages is longer then 15 seconds, but.

Dispite that the OP, whether you consider it true "kiting" or not, doespresent a valid and useful tactic.

Call it a temporary strategic withdrawal, or kiting, or whatever. Many players, dragon and biped alike seem unfamiliar with the extreme utility of simply moving about to create distance, however temporary.

Retreating from melee mobs, particulary while under the influence of HoT, and particularly Refreshing Breeze/Sslik Regen will extend the combat and increase your chances of coming out with a victory instead of a death point.

Retreating to allow specials to recycle more is again extremely useful if your specials are better then those of the mob you're fighting (frequently true with dragons).

Personally I'm a bigger fan of Tail Whip: GR: Ravage: Retreat: Silverstrike: Retreat: GR: Retreat: Repeat

But it amounts to trading specials with the mob, and for the dragon that's an effective trade off. Additionally, casting spells and swinging a weapon have a delay/casting time where you must remain stationary, and then the attack. Specials however, have the attack, and then a delay afterwords where you can move about, making Specials ideal for this sort of combat as you're stationary in melee range rarely.

Its also good to note that DoT's (Bite/Burning Embers/crystal procs for dragons) are extremely useful as a mob won't break aggro while you're dragging it around if it has a DoT on it (unless you go up on an object and trigger the perching code).

For Melee based bipeds there's a bit less utility in the trading specials given the longer recycle of those specials, but there's still much to gain if you're under the influence of a HoT, or if you just need to live a few seconds longer to get another multistrike to finish off the mob.

[Dhalin]

PJ is right here.

"Kiting" doesn't necessarily mean you are attempting to try and kill the mob while you are running.... maybe "Kiting" is the wrong word to use here? I don't know what else to really call it though... in another MMORPG that I've played, some mobs have special DEADLY abilities called "Two-Hours"... basically the mob can only use it once, but its Very, Very nasty. Some of these, if you stand in Melee range, you are going to die, and Quickly.

So what they do, is kite the mob.... or Retreat..... until it wears off. One of these abilities is called "Hundred Fists". For 30 seconds, the mob has NO delay between melee attacks. It attacks every second. As you can imagine, this would be Very deadly. So basically what they do is run like heck to get away from it until this wears off. There are also some mobs that become invincible for 30 seconds... Obviously.... you're not gonna stand there and swing at something you can't hurt while its hurting you.... so you run until its invincibility wears off. Same goes for the mobs that can use Perfect Dodge, 30 seconds of Dodge Everything Thrown at it. Or the mobs that can get 45 seconds of Mighty Strikes, which makes Every hit a Critical Hit. You obviously don't want to be taking a lot of criticals, do you?

And btw, maybe it is shorter than 45 seconds, but Silver Strike and Gold Rage have the same recast Timer. I ought to know, I Always use them back to back, and they are Always recharged Back to Back. Maybe it is only 15seconds, but it sure as heck seems like 45....

--Dhalin

[Iauquai]

I have recently used kitingfor a slightly different purpose. I recently got a quest to kill 50 desert wolves. Once you find a spot with a lot of them you are set, however, they are pack animals and if you hit one while it is close enough to other they will all come after you.

So, I run up, smack one with my bolt spell then start backpedalling (this requires that you have an escape route setup so you don't back into something that will interfere.) Here, straight line kiting is useful, because you want all but one of the pack to loose interest in you. Keep your dragon reach skill ready for the final part. Now this is where it can vary. After a while some of the mobs will start to peel off and return to their spot. this might happen two times before they all finally decide to leave.

The ending part varies too. Usually, just as the last ones decide to turn and go back, you stop and use your dragon reach to smack one. That mob will run back and you now have your single mob pulled. This can get tricky, you might want to use your bolt if you are still close enough because sometimes his remaining friends will come after you again. Also, be careful of another 'feature', it seems to be lag related but I'm not sure. Occasionally one mob will stop in his tracks, if you see this, let the others go, only hit this stationary one otherwise you will have 2 or more after you.

I have used this with golems, and spiders also. One thing I try to do is not keep one selected because usually the one you first pull is not the one you should be hitting to complete the pull. It seems that the highest level wolf will complete the chase. With golems and spiders it usually seems to be the one you damaged the most.

[Varangaard]

Pin another MMORPG that I've played, some mobs have special DEADLY abilities called "Two-Hours"... basically the mob can only use it once, but its Very, Very nasty. Some of these, if you stand in Melee range, you are going to die, and Quickly.

FFXI, yes? [:)]

In Horizons, there is one mob where this "wait it out" tactic is almost always used. All ancient dragons are familiar with Elial, their final challenge. Without fail, Elial will use the Ignore Pain ability on the moment he spawns, making himself immune to all melee damage for 30 seconds. The usual tactic is to make him spawn, then quickly flee to distance before he can gain aggro and wait for the special to fizz out. After that comes the world of hurt to Elial.

[Goriax]

You don't need to run away from Elial or kite him or such to let that ability expire. Just mez him. That's how we've usually killed him in the groups I've beenin.

Kiting has always bothered me since I first saw it soon after EQ1 released. It has no basis in realism butis all about taking advantage of poor AI. Oh well, Verant/SoEweren't able to stamp it out. Guess we can't expect TG to. They tried -- which is why you had to go in circles -- but it wasn't enough.

When I've had to kill stuff in packs I usually just sit patiently until one moves a bit away from the pack or I see a lonerthen tag him. I never had to hunt desert wolves so can't absolutely guerantee it works, but it sure does on many other similar beasties. No kiting necessary. The key is patience and knowing when to strike. As you thin them outit gets easier and easier (assuming the spawn is the kind which thins). The only times I run is when I'm running for my life. I probably took that quest under a different name for a different mob although for the same ability back in the months soon after release.

Perhaps the fact that I played a monk in EQ1 for years -- thus did a LOT of pulling -- gave me enough experience to be able to single pull that stuff but I can usually manage fine. HZ aggro isn't all that different from EQ1 aggro and what differences thera are, are mainly in ways which make single pulling easier, not harder. You just have to be patient, observe, and know when to strike.

[Dhalin]

Aggro and Initial pulling is not where the differences lie.

The Differences lie within Battle and Enmity.

Enmity is a word I use to describe a Decision made by the mob's AI on WHO to attack. When you are in Group Play, the mob should have some sort of Method of which it chooses its targets. I think Tulga sitll needs to do a lot of work here..

But at any rate, Aggro is similar, yes....though.. I think things have a Way too large of a Link radius. Its nearly impossible to pull mobs like wolves where something can link with it from 100+ m away. I've had it happen. Pull a wolf, pull it Almost to the point it breaks off, and then another links, from roughly 100m away.

Ridiculous.

--Dhalin

[Seranthor]

PJ is right here.

And btw, maybe it is shorter than 45 seconds, but Silver Strike and Gold Rage have the same recast Timer. I ought to know, I Always use them back to back, and they are Always recharged Back to Back. Maybe it is only 15seconds, but it sure as heck seems like 45....

--Dhalin

After reading this I had to check myself...

Silver Strike X is 30sec reuse.
Gold Rage VII is 15sec reuse.

This isn't something I ought to know Dhalin, this is something I do know.