Proposed Portal System Revamp

[Akrion]

For those proposing the single central hub idea, please understand this is not feasible. Nor is changing the user-interface for porting. Such an undertaking would take this from a project that would require weeks to complete, test and get implemented, to one that would require months.

Months? Really? o.O

I just don't see how going from completely revamping the portal destinations to completely revamping the portal destinations + adding an island to act as a central hub would take things from weeks to months unless Istaria's code isn't optimized very well, or if the level designer your engine uses is very picky.

For the size of something like a hub, I could throw a detailed island togethor via Bethesda's construction set (Morrowind or Oblivion) in about a week. In SL I carved out a 256x256 island, in terms of shape at the very least, in roughly 2 days. So unless there's something very problematic with adding portals and landing pads, I'm struggling to see why it would bump a project of weeks into a project of months, that's a drastic change in time.

[Velea]

You're misunderstanding, Akrion. The whole of the project with a revamp of the UI would require the "months" part.

[Akrion]

You're misunderstanding, Akrion. The whole of the project with a revamp of the UI would require the "months" part.

Oh, well I don't think the UI needs changing at all, unless you'd be referring to the portal lists, but I would assume that would need changing anyway.

Why, exactly, would a central hub be unfeasible?

[Raptress]

From every "outlying" area you would be able to port to any of the major cities. So if you were on Trandalar somewhere you could go directly to Genevia and from Genevia to a guild town.

That makes me feel a bit better, yeah. Provided that major cities don't need attunement. In the first post, it implies that major cities won't need attunment, but considering the T2 revamp made some of them need attunement, I can't be sure by implication alone.

It's definitely going to be... weird. I've gotten used to the central hub idea that's in-game right now. If things really must change, I'd prefer that, but if it isn't feasible, it isn't feasible.

Also if things really must change.. it would be very nice if non-major-city portals stayed the way they were, and simply had new destinations added rather than having all their old destinations completely deleted. I really like the aspect of the game where you can figure out shortcuts in the portal system after you've been around a while. Adding the new destinations without taking the old away still allows for the proposed system to be in place if a newer player needs to find their way around based on that, but the older players can still use their shortcuts.

[Glaciera]

Something I haven't seen mentioned that I thought of, perhaps because I'm a new (returning after a multi-year absence) player.

What about those of us who are low adventure levels, but high crafting levels? If I'm reading this right, with some of the attunement quests (performing a task in that area), we will not be able to ply our crafts unless we level as an adventurer.

Is this intended? I hope not, because the thing I enjoy most about this game is the crafting.

That being said, I can already get anywhere I want in 3 ports or less, and I'm bound in Parsinia. Many trips I could shave off one port if I would just bind in Bristugo. When I first returned to game, I was a little confused as to what went where, but after I discovered Bristugo goes most places, I haven't had a problem getting around.

I think this revamp is a terrible idea with the massive memory leak and multiple relogs per gaming session that exist already.

Holth had a good idea, I think... just add more destinations to the existing portals. You can still add quests that send you from destination to destination to help guide new players. Why would that have to be portal related?

[velveeta]

Something I haven't seen mentioned that I thought of, perhaps because I'm a new (returning after a multi-year absence) player.

What about those of us who are low adventure levels, but high crafting levels? If I'm reading this right, with some of the attunement quests (performing a task in that area), we will not be able to ply our crafts unless we level as an adventurer.

Is this intended? I hope not, because the thing I enjoy most about this game is the crafting.

That being said, I can already get anywhere I want in 3 ports or less, and I'm bound in Parsinia. Many trips I could shave off one port if I would just bind in Bristugo. When I first returned to game, I was a little confused as to what went where, but after I discovered Bristugo goes most places, I haven't had a problem getting around.

I think this revamp is a terrible idea with the massive memory leak and multiple relogs per gaming session that exist already.

Holth had a good idea, I think... just add more destinations to the existing portals. You can still add quests that send you from destination to destination to help guide new players. Why would that have to be portal related?

i must say i agree with about most of this (i don't necessarily see it as a terrible idea, but def an unneeded one). attunements requiring mostly adventuring will be a turnoff to crafters - i am not opposed to asking for or being a babysitter, but most crafters would rather not have to if they don't want to (altho i must ask how high they can be; t5 and certainly t6 resources are guarded by badazz nasties....).
the only thing i would ask for from a revamp is that all incoming ports have a outgoing port as well and that we do not have to reattune to ports we already have.

[Nayuaka]

I generally agree with the sentiments listed above. Why do we have to change a portal system that works, and has worked for 6ish years. Do we have to now change EVERYTHING about this game? First the the ability quests and now this. Ung.

I started out in this game before all this added "help", and I've been here for years. My training island was New Vassarak(sp), and I had to use scales for hoard. This game has seen many changes since I first subbed. From the nerf of the pawnbrokers, to lairs being added, to the (very irritating) ability quest changes, and the already implemented portal attunment changes for some cities. Newbies for YEARS had no issue with so many of these things, least of all the portal systems. So why, in Drulkar's name, do we feel we need to coddle them, irritate the veterans, and destroy a system that already works?

From a vetaran, and a lover of Horizons for over 5 years, I vote no on this change. Please leave something left of the original game we love.

[Kulamata]

The question has also been raised as to why this proposal in the first place. There are numerous threads on the forums, and we've had even more support tickets, from players requesting that we do a portal revamp. We've read that feedback, spent months discussing this internally and modifying ideas, firming up our goals and redesigning, etc, to try and take into account what from those suggestions is possible.

Given the care with which resources are expended these days, I'm sure the proposal is not raised on a whim; but it would help if the specific problems that this is intended to solve were explained.

[LOVWYRM]

a clear NO from here.
and I agree to the opinios of all who said NO too. Esp. I sign Luthen`s post.
And EPI`s. And Nayuaka`s.

We need some visible game enrichment atm. Not a change that is annoying in first step- even if it turns into something good in the long term.
And nothing that keeps devs from fixing what is broken or bring in new content.

Give us a fall festival, gnomekindle, WA attacks or other things that we`ve already seen and want to see again.
Then we can talk about a portal revamp^^

[Valareos]

Changes into his flame retardent scales~

Bristugo was the worst idea in Istarian History.
Wait.. this will relate to the thread.. just give it a second.

Long time ago, when a person finished with their quest in their starter town (and the one you went to depended on your race!), you entered the portal and were taken to your home city.

In fact, back then, race cities were not tiered, they were all safe areas, and it got progressively higher in tier the further away from a major city you went.

I remember fighting fire beetles outside dralk as a level 20.. ahh good times.

Anyway, back then the cities were bustling with people, true economic hubs for any tier, a place for people to gather and sell their wares. Go to Sslanis, and ssliks ran around everywhere, with the occasional saris, human, and even a flying dragon or two. Aug was filled with dwarves staking their claims in the nearby mines. Portals back then were basically from one major city to another.. back then, plots were a twinkle in the devs eyes.

Do you know why the consigners went bust? do you know why Tazoon is as deserted as the desert around it?

Istaria went Portal Crazy, and then created an abomination known as Bristugo, where a person can access anywhere in the world, at any tier, without the effort that once was needed... where the merchantile system became CENTRALIZED. Cities became tiered, and the normal bustle of towns fed by new players in every city disappeared.

This, I assure you, was not the original vision of the game.

So what are the devs proposing? Decentrilization. Each major city becoming the market and transport hub for its area, and due to the cities being tiered, it is the market hub for that tier as well. It is like spokes on a wheel, areas that are isolated become harder to get to once more, even with portals, while keeping areas that should be more populated easier to access. Done right, there is no need to remember new portals, just looka t the map for the geographical area the community is in. The setup from community to community being no more than 3 portals away is by this theory. "Settlement A -> Major City A -> Major City B -> Settlement B


you say players will have a harder time building their plots? Ever thought of paying for the service of having someone lugging the materials for you? Im sure there are PLENTY of people willing to make the trip in exchange for coin. most will even make an item over in settlement A, take it to Settlement B and put it on Conny for the cost of materials + transport + profit. This is why you can add COIN to your property for materials placed! I personally have 6 gold waiting on my lair for those who wish to build.

Lag? Well.. if you dont have everyone and their brother going to a single hub that serves the entire game, and instead split among 5 major hubs, LAG WILL DECREASE

I think it is a great idea to require a quest for attunement, Due to the tiering of cities anyway, there is very little reason for a level 1 to be running to aug nowdays anyway.

The only thing i would reccomend is making dralk classed as Tier 3, with tier 3 versions of the fire monsters close to the city, tapering out to the Tier 4 that is out there now. This is simply to keep compatability to ROP for hatchies (chiconas is already tier 2), and would mean lunus need to be level 40 to do their ROP without having to run all the time. (not a bad idea to have more choosing to do helian because it can be done sooner)

Anyway, Flame me if you want, I personally think this is a good move.

[Akrion]

you say players will have a harder time building their plots? Ever thought of paying for the service of having someone lugging the materials for you? Im sure there are PLENTY of people willing to make the trip in exchange for coin.

You mean with money ultimately useless to players who've been around for more than half a year? The entire reason why almost nobody, atleast on Order shard, hunts for comps? Money its self needs a huge revamp, because once you've got a plot and your vault upgrades, there is nothing else to use it for outside port costs, so there is little reason to make it.

[Chasing]

Okay I read this, read the comments, then read the main post again.

Portal Revamp concept - yes okay, however the feedback given on the forum previously was to add certain destinations to some gates (and reduce the number of ports needed). Completely redoing the portal system was not asked for.

Looking at the currently proposed implementation its geared towards new players into the game. Not the elder playerbase. You need to consider how much you upset the elder playerbase (as far as I am concerned they are the ppl keeping this game alive).

You are taking the majority of destinations that are accessible from bristugo and making them at least 1 further port away. This to me is just madness.

Also you are grouping similar geographic destinations to their closest main city. Whats the point of doing that? Example - Why would I want to port to Old Oaks from Harro when it takes me less than a 1-2 minutes to run there from Harro.

On a separate note

Why another revamp when existing revamps havent been finished?
- We are still missing quests from the T2 revamp
- 2 mini dungeons that were promised
- a scholar school revamp
- etc

Start finishing things and stop starting projects and then not finishing them.

[Gimbold]

Totally agree with Chasing

[Unicorn's Lady]

I too feel that you should pretty much keep the portal system as is. (Adding a way to get to New Trismus & Trandalar from Bristugo would be nice) I don't think gutting it and then trying to do a rebuild is a good idea. (Besides Bristugo is one of the very few places you actually see other players making it feel less like a single player game. Aughundell & New Trismus are the others.)

Until you changed things with the T2 revamp is was pretty easy to tell a newcomer how to get somewhere. It mainly started with the words, "From New Trismus, take the portal to Bristugo and then...." Now, all us old folk have to go to New Trismus, Kion, and Parsinia to memorize the new portal links before we are able to help newcomers. Even then we have to help talk them through how to run the Attuning gauntlet just so they can get access to some of the common areas.

Instead of changing the whole portal system, how about a simple little quest that teaches a newcomer how to get to some of the basic towns & communities and how to Attune and where to go to Attune. (Of course giving them a bit of coin and/or exp. will help more of them to actually do the quest.)
OR! On the New Trismus' pawnbroker have for sale little "How To" papers/maps giving brief instructions on how you get to certain communities (similiar to the instructions given in quests to find some of the various towers) for only a couple of coppers.


For those of you, who like me looked at Velea's map and went "What???" here is my:

Highly Dubious Map Key (corresponding to background colors, letter colors & sizes, and borders.)

STAND ALONE CITES (They have their own singular color sets)

1. Important cities (They have large, bolded letters) : Aughundell; Bristugo; Chiconis; Kion; Mahagra; New Rachival; Sslanis
2. Less important cities (The letters aren't bolded & perhaps slightly smaller): Dalimond; Feladan; Kirasanct

CLUSTERS (These are communities with the same color sets)

1. The White Background/Black Letters/Black Border Cluster:
Genevia (important city with large, bolded letters); Genevia Destinations; Guild Islands; Shepherd's Mtn. Destinations
2. The White Background/Black Letters Cluster:
Parsinia; Bridgeview; Dryart; Desert's Edge
3. The Dark Pink Background/Black Letters Cluster:
Dralk (important city with large, bolded letters); Kir'ignat; Drakul
4. The Light Pink Background/Black Letters/Black Border Cluster:
Abandoned Island; Scorpion Island Destinations; Aiya; Felathien; Lerena; Grayling; Dikaina; Mia's Edge
5. The Light Pink Background/Black Letters Cluster:
Draak; Aedan; Serenity; Kir'tis
6. The Dark Light Blue Background/Black Letters Cluster:
Trandalar Destinations; Blizzard's Reach; Drift Point
7. The Light Blue Background/Black Letters Cluster:
Drakul; Kirignat; (Possibly another but the top of the map is cut off)
8. The Light Light Blue Background/Black Letters Cluster:
Winter's Peak; Frostwatch
9. The Light Light Light Blue Background/Black Letters Cluster:
Draak; Aedan; Serenity; Kir'tis
10. The Pumpkin Background/Black Letter/Black Border Cluster:
Heather; Morning Light
11. The Ochre Background/White Letters Cluster:
Granite Hills; Delgarath; Last Stand; Mithril's Anvil; Wolf Paw; Old Oaks; Harro
12. The Light Light Light Green Background/Black Letters Cluster:
Tislar; Sanctuary Bay; Spire's Trail; Sable Shore; King's Cross; Heart; Slate Crest; Izzon Crest; South March
13. The Light Green Background/Black Letters Cluster:
Harton Valley; South Gate; Forest Guard; Harton Valley (yes it is listed twice); Selen Shore; Selen

Tazoon and New Trismus haven't a listing on the map.

GUESSES

1. The Pinks

1a. Dralk may link also to the Light Pink Background/Black Letters Cluster since it and that cluster are both without borders.
1b. Bristugo may link to the Light Pink Background/Black Letters/Black Border Cluster since it and that cluster are both with borders.
1c. Perhaps all the pinks link to each other because they are pink.

2. The Whites

2a. Perhaps all the whites link to each other because they are white.

3. The Browns

3a. Aughundell may link also to the Ochre Background/White Letters Cluster since it and that cluster are both without borders and have white letters.
3b. New Rachival may link also to the Pumpkin Background/Black Letter/Black Border Cluster since it and that cluster are both with borders.
3c. Perhaps all the browns/pumpkin/ochre link to each other because they are brownish.
3d. Kion might be in this group because it is yellow & otherwise does not fit with any other major color group.

4. The Greens

4a. Feladan has a green background and may link to the next closest cluster shade with is the Light Green Background/Black Letters Cluster.
4b. Dalimond's background is lighter still and may link to the lightest green cluster background which is the Light Light Light Green Background/Black Letters Cluster.
4c. Perhaps all the greens link to each other because they are green.

5. The Blues

5a. 8 shades of light blue was used so the best guess is the important blue cities are linked to the blue cluster nearest to them except for Chiconis, which maybe linked to both the Light Blue Background/Black Letters Cluster & the Light Light Light Blue Background/Black Letters Cluster.
5b. Perhaps all the blues link to each other because they are blue including Sslanis since it is blue background/black letters/black border even though there isn't a similar looking cluster.

6. Borders or no borders

6a. The cities & clusters with borders may all link to each other.
6b. The cities & clusters without borders may link to each other.

[Valareos]

You mean with money ultimately useless to players who've been around for more than half a year? The entire reason why almost nobody, atleast on Order shard, hunts for comps? Money its self needs a huge revamp, because once you've got a plot and your vault upgrades, there is nothing else to use it for outside port costs, so there is little reason to make it.

i dunno... ive been around for 6 years with this charry and i have yet to run into the "i dont need anymore money" problem.

Perhaps because I pay for services rendered more than i should.. but meh.

Point is, money stopped being cycled, and it can be traced to bristugo.

with the centralization of the markets that happened with a single hub, you ended up having a massive price war that ended up with a few people holding a monopoly on items being sold. Any one market can only support so many sellers. Those that used to deal in their craft stopped as it didnt become worth it anymore to try to compete with those who were selling dirt cheap. now.. this means that less sellers + same Demand should mean an increase in Sellers and the cycle starts again. Unfortunately, as the prices for items are placed near cost due to price war, new sellers didnt arrive. Demand was then met by players making the items themselves, either through alts, or just getting the skills up to do it. Couple that with those that started giving away stuff they could make at no cost,and you end up with a siezing of the money flow.

Decentralizing the market can help stimulate the money flow again, and in the method being described, it will start by players distributing raw or finished building resources from areas it can easilly be accessed to areas that do not have it nearby.

You think a revamp of money is needed? then a decentrilized hub system is a good first step, with these "half a year or more" players that dont know what to spend their money on paying for items that are now "too much trouble" to get themselves

Of coarse, Im on Chaos, so the mechanics at work over there may not be the same

[Dhalin]

I'd have to add my input that I am against this idea as well.

There's no need, nor reason, to make things more complicated than they already are. As other players have said, we don't want to portal 300-500 meters away.

We want to portal 20,000 - 30,000 meters away, without having to port twice.

For instance, the way I play, is that I have my biped character bound to the NT shrine. From New Trismus, I can go to Bristugo, Most Newbie Towns, and IIRC, Trandalar.

From Bristugo, I can go just about anywhere.

My Dragon is bound to Dralk; I _know_ that leads to Trandalar and New Tris, and Bristugo. That's all I _need_. The only destination I'm missing, is Floating Island for easy WD access.

With this new proposed change, many people will have to pull up their homes and move, as some of them made their decisions based upon where the home is and how many ports are required to get there. You say "no more than 3", but yet many of our current paths are 1-2. Making us port 3 when we only had to port 2 or worse, 1, is just atrocious.

Okay, lemme ask you. My lair is in Kenaf Port. Am I going to have to port to Scorpion Island and THEN Kenaf Port? Before, it was Bristugo -> Kenaf Port .... now it would be Bristugo -> SI -> Kenaf Port? What's the point in doing that?

My vote is this:

Change Bristugo to include those few destinations that do not already exist. Why can we NOT Port to Trandalar from Bristugo? I don't see the reasoning behind this. How about New Trismus? Add that to Bristugo too. To cut down on lag, add 2 new Shrines to Bristugo, spaced apart (put one on each end of the town, maybe 3-4 shrines in total) so that there isn't too much lag from having 50+ people bound to the Bristugo Shrine.

That's all we need, really. Oh, and Bristugo -> Floating Island would be nice too.

But really, if you plan on revamping the portal, how about re-doing the code that makes people lag up after a few ports? Personally, this doesn't happen to be, but I could see the annoyance of having to re-log after every 3-4 ports, especially after having to port so often after this proposed change. And what about cargo disk hauling fees? Those are outrageous, last I saw. Are you going to lower those, to account for how many more ports will be required to build a plot (especially for bipeds who can't fly) after this change? etc etc.

tl;dr: NO. Just add a few ports to Bristugo and that'd be golden.

[Shian]

I am not sure where I stand on this proposal. There are pros and cons to each system.

On one hand, I would love not having to memorize portal jumps any more.

I would no longer live in an obscure area that is only on three portals. Nor would anyone else for that matter. When I was new I did find the portal system very hard to memorize: Heather and AI are free, Harro leads everywhere. Mahagra is the only way to get to Guild lands and some of the out of the way places without attuning to Bris. Dralk is the only place that leads to Drakul, Serenity, Draak etc.

I would love a system where I didn't have to memorize paths, just a "group 1" and "group 2"

I don't see Tazoon and FI on that map. What of them? Am I still doomed to make 4 ports to get there?

However, this system would increase the jumps to certain resources and if I'm reading this right, Bristugo would no longer lead nearly everywhere, but only to its black colored destinations? If Bristugo stays as is and adds a portal to the currently missing areas, this may be a better system than what we currently have.
This would mean a lot of moving around across the world. I'm sure Harro would no longer lead everywhere etc. Cuts down on some ports and increases on others.

Attuning is another concern. Would this lock new players or plotholder alts out of the harder to reach areas?
If I wanted to show someone my lair in Winter's Peak would they be able to get there using this new model or would they have to run three different attunement quests to get to me? Will those quests be level locked like Trandalar is?
The current system, I had to run a level 1 through T2 baddies (Skulks) to get it to Genevia, a T1 area that other players needed a plot on. Would this scenario make this no longer be the case?

[AmonGwareth]

I
Attuning is another concern. Would this lock new players or plotholder alts out of the harder to reach areas?
If I wanted to show someone my lair in Winter's Peak would they be able to get there using this new model or would they have to run three different attunement quests to get to me? Will those quests be level locked like Trandalar is?
The current system, I had to run a level 1 through T2 baddies (Skulks) to get it to Genevia, a T1 area that other players needed a plot on. Would this scenario make this no longer be the case?

This is going to happen regardless of any change in the portal system as we move across the world doing revamps.

[Raptress]

Anyway, back then the cities were bustling with people, true economic hubs for any tier, a place for people to gather and sell their wares. Go to Sslanis, and ssliks ran around everywhere, with the occasional saris, human, and even a flying dragon or two. Aug was filled with dwarves staking their claims in the nearby mines. Portals back then were basically from one major city to another..

Back then, Istaria also had a much, much bigger population. On Order these days, it's not uncommon to see 20 people online total. These new "hubs" are not going to be bustling with activity. They are going to be almost empty. We're going to see even fewer players than we do now, as the only places I commonly come across other players at all is Bristugo, NT, and Aughundel.

And they won't be economic hubs anyway, as all consigners but the ones in Bris, Augh, and NT have been removed.

you say players will have a harder time building their plots? Ever thought of paying for the service of having someone lugging the materials for you?

Some of us actually like the plot building process and don't want it to become more tedious. Not to mention I don't have 6 gold to pay people. The only way I know to earn that is to .. do plot/lair work. So I might as well just build my own.

Lag? Well.. if you dont have everyone and their brother going to a single hub that serves the entire game, and instead split among 5 major hubs, LAG WILL DECREASE

Except when we aren't talking about player-count lag. There is a well-known memory leak problem with the act of teleporting in this game. More overall ports = more lag.

I think it is a great idea to require a quest for attunement, Due to the tiering of cities anyway, there is very little reason for a level 1 to be running to aug nowdays anyway.

On Order, Aughundel is the main consigner for anything over T1. That is a very good reason for a level 1 bank alt to be running to Augh. It's a very good reason for anyone to run to Augh.

This is going to happen regardless of any change in the portal system as we move across the world doing revamps.

Are you serious? You're going to make everyone have to run to all the major cities and attune? Please, please correct me if I have that wrong.

[Akrion]

This is going to happen regardless of any change in the portal system as we move across the world doing revamps.

Honestly all I see this doing is further separating the old players from the new ones. I can't help but feel that the further we go into revamps, the more it's focused on bringing in new players without any regard for the old players.

Like someone already said, it almost seems like you guys are going to go forward with what you planned anyway, making this 'Proposed Portal System Revamp' thread seem more like a show than anything. (Make the old players feel like they have a say in the matter sort of thing.)

I have a big problem with this because the last MMO that I played where the existing community was sacrificed for bringing in new players, it became known as one of the biggest blunders in MMO history. (For those who might not know what I speak of, search 'Star Wars Galaxies: New Game Enhancements')

You guys rely on your existing community, so why you seem to disregard what the majority of said community ever tells you is beyond me. And this isn't just as far as I'm concerned, I've heard plenty from other friends that not only feel the same way from what they've seen, but feel the same way from how they're treated.

If you ever wonder why I get so annoyed, it's becuase I've tried to offer help that I spent a good long time thinking about and documenting in the past only to have it go completely unresponded to in favor of some partially on topic two sentence post getting a dev response.

And after a good long break I try again but the most I get back is "It's unfeasible" and nothing more. In the end everything doesn't seem to matter because you guys seem to have set in your mind how you want things to go and disregard anything that goes against this mindset. And again I know I'm not the only person who's experienced this, and what's worse is that I know what I've experienced is pretty mild in comparison to some.