Multiple enemy bonus...

[Vesuvius]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Vesuvius wrote: I think the system works fine the way it is.

This is true.

For WA mobsonly.

Been to Elnath, the Fire Isle and/or the EDlately?



Perhaps even resulting to multi-enemy exp based off difficulty of mobs is in need of play. I mean, who's vs'd a Purple Spider and a Blue Vexator, and can honestly tell me that the Blue Vexatorwas easier. Maybe 4 or 5 Spiders would be of more reasoning.

Yes, I hunt on Elnath. Its fun ;)

To the bolded: This now, is a big issue that has been around scince beta. Mobs should certainly have a rating adjustment to make up for the increased difficulty.

[Vesuvius]

So non of you see anything wrong in getting 42k xpfor a single mobat rating 164? Well then its my bad i guess...

Describe what special abilities and the size of group you are able to pull.

I think the real issue here is not with the multi-enemy bonus, but the lack of real 'detriment' that high rating provides.

Naturally there is a more subtle problem. If something is done, then how is it justified to other players who are not 150+ rating who can no longer 'easily' obtain those levels? It would result in a select few players (however this is a very large few, even if small in comparison to the entire player base) that were allowed to use the multi-enemy bonus/rating system as it has been.

The only fair way to go about that would be to retrospectively nerf everyone's experience to match the new system, and we all know what that would result in.

[gusi]

Check around the top of the thread Fhrain.

Some people think that AE/Tulga will screw it up.

It IS screwed up NOW.

It's not healthy to get lvl 100 in any class in 2 or 3 days. Wether it be your 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 20th.

I seen somebody with rating ~40 on Elnath about 2 weeks ago. Now they have rating ~140!

Dragons are complaining about an 'End Game'. At this rate, soon will the bipeds too.

[Gunnyr]

I've been dreading this thread. Someone was bound to get indignant, and form a posse. And if past history is any guide, there will be a horrific over-reaction by AE, ill conceived and heavy handed.

Remember, these people broke stuff that didn't need fixing; and the reaction to the HV exploit (for one example) was crude and extreme.

I think inviting the rhinocerous to the party is a very bad mistake. And if a huge change is made, how many people will stay because of that? None. How many will leave? Dunno, but surely some.

Finally a voice of reason amongst all the warcries of nerf...

For the last few months I've been experiencing a healthbar bug that prevents me from surviving most multi-mobs in the first place, yet the mobs are mostly grouped everywhere.

Let them fix the bugs before screaming nerf and driving away new players.

[Safire]

you know what nerf exp and you mide as well put a big sign on every page for login saying WARNNG YOU CANT REACH LEVEl 2 UNTILL YOU HAVE BEEN HUNTING LEVEL 120 MOBS FOR 2 SOLID DAYS you know what powerlleveling is a fact of games powergamers are a fact of games nerf peoples experience you nerf the one thing that is closest to correct i say keep the multiple enimy bunos if you can get 42k exp mob you obviously have a group that is way too powerful so dont scream nerf nerf nerf untill you think of what will happen next as for you who say this needs to be nerfed...go nerf yourself dont complain you get too much exp besides if your getting too much exp....go solo and stop postingpointless stuff like this and as for mobs being too easy to kill...tell me whare thoose mobs are after how long ive been playing i should be 100 by now but imnot so ill gladly get myself up there bucuase you know why...becuase low levels are boreing almost all tech comps are only getable from the veilo if you want to get them that year

[Fhrain]

i say keep the multiple enimy bunos if you can get 42k exp mob you obviously have a group that is way too powerful so dont scream nerf nerf nerf untill you think of what will happen next as for you who say this needs to be nerfed...go nerf yourself dont complain you get too much exp besides if your getting too much exp....go solo and stop postingpointless stuff like this and as for mobs being too easy to kill...tell me whare thoose mobs are after how long ive been playing i should be 100 by now but imnot so ill gladly get myself up there bucuase you know why...becuase low levels are boreing almost all tech comps are only getable from the veilo if you want to get them that year

This is obviously something you are very much against and i respect that.
Now i havent said anything about nerfing it, I`ve hinted towards that i feel it might be out of date after they put in the new high lvl mobs, and that it might need adjustments.
What do you need for 42k xp for a mob you ask? I`ll gladly tell ya, 2 ppl with MC and someone to pull Purple Necroflies, Fyakkies, elnath mobs.

Im not interested in seeing nerfs, noone like nerfs. However i do belive it needs to be adjusted to today mobs. And i dont think thats pointless, and any dev reading this can see ppl are arguing for and against it. I doubt AE will risk another nerf that can cause ppl leaving again like the archer nerf, do you?

[evilkarl]

The multiple enemey bonus is fine and a good idea. It rewards those who are able to take on multiple opponents concurrently. If AE decides to change it they will nerf it to hell and back again.

The problem is the spawns. The satyr isles need a rating restriction of 80+ for all party members. This wont stop people on second or higher schools. The known power spawns of purple flies (died here many times solo pulling 1 or 2 mobs), fire island (died here), elnath (died here) and the falsly advertising fyakki (died here) need to have a more challenging mob mixed in with the spawn, Perhaps a Vexator or abominations.

Or perhaps casting the health line should draw agro from any mob engaged with the person you are fighting if you are fighting a group.

Having said vexators should be mixed in I really wish there was a dedicated blue/red vexator spawn so I could hunt them for tech comps.

IF I were to support a change to the multiple mob bonus It would be in the form of a further reducer to multiple mob xp based on number of people and ratings in group. Perhaps 10% reduction to the max xp per person in the group.

On the topic of spiders (and wolves for that matter) its common knowledge these creatures are massively over powered when it comes to evasion and weapon skill, yet remain unfixed after many months.

[imported_Twelvebagger]

There?s some sense to Kumu's Post. They shouldn?t use a reward system to encourage grouping, they should create a need for combat tactics that one person can?t achieve, and that creates the demand for grouping. We saw brief spats of this when the crimson scourge was introduced, and even prior to this, in the spiral. (Note: The spiral was an exception because it could be soloed by a high level toon, it?s just that there weren?t many high level toons around at that time). I really have mixed feelings about how the exp works. I just came back to the game and saw a friend of mine take a new class to level 75 in less than two days, and he certainly wasn?t playing 24 hours/day, and on top of that, he WASN?T powerleveling, he was just out hunting. Is that wrong? For me, it takes away some enjoyment, but that?s just my opinion. I remember when the only thing we could level off of was cursed wolves, marrows, and mylocs. I also remember that Rhialto (on a different server) was 3x100 back then. Now THAT?S an achievement. That?s called grinding. (Recall that getting from 99 to 100 took about 8 hours, and that was if you were FAST). I feasibly think I could start a new toon and have a couple of 100?s in a week or two. To me, that?s imbalance at it?s finest. I believe that the intent of multiple classes was to provide for greater character differentiation in that you?d have a lot of hybrid mixtures running around, and everyone would be different. With somewhat obvious class choices creating a powerful mixture, and ultra-ease in leveling, this differentiation is lost, and we?re back to square one. Let?s face it, gamers are smart for the most part, and they?ll tend to gravitate towards either a) The strongest build or b) a build that is acceptable in strength provided it meets the features they like. (For instance, people really wanted to play a dragon when this game first came out. Many people did, but dragons were sub-par and this caused some people to quit their toon or quit the game. Were dragons at least average in potency, there would have been a lot more of them seen at higher levels). Because of a), we see the following template: Main: Melee prestige class of either mage or priest base. Secondaries: Several mage-type classes or several healer type classes (replace several with ?all? for an extreme example). Add: 100 healer or 100 cleric. And you end up with a cookie cutter. I?m not saying everyone is identical, it?s just that fast leveling is going to contribute to that process. -12- P.S. I like all the new mobs, I like a lot of the changes that have been made to Istaria since my leave. I do notice something is missing though?. Fun. P.P.S. The solution either lies in exp reduction OR a demand for combat tactics. As it stands right now, there are plenty of areas in game where you can take a half-assed group of uneducated whack-a-moles, and level all day.

[Spazer]

the multi enemy bonus has not made grouping the idea way to level, it has made leeching the idea way to level. before the Multi Enemy Bonus , NO ONE ever wanted you to group with them because you hurt there exp. with the Multi enemy bonus, people don't mind others joining them because it doesn't hurt there leveling. if you thin you are leveling to fast and have a rating over 140 try your self to hunt harder mobs, lets not try to others from getting a 140 plus rating just because you have it already. you think the mobs is to easy , hunt something harder. you think you level too fast , hunt something harder , or even try the melee hunting whereyou have to kill one at a time. and then tell us all how fast leveling life is.


My main point is , just because you think a mob is too easy or you level to fast killing those mobs, hunt else where. you don't see all those people hunting there because it is boring , they like it and like hunting that way , if you do not like hunting that way there are tons of other mobs in game you can go hunt , hmmm Like give you hand at the WA mobs on the island , or for more fun try hunting packs of wolfs.

you people that cry things are too easy are the ones that only go after the easyest mobs in the game. try any of the other hunting spots other than the 5 easyest places to hunt to level.

[Senkeleron Fell]

What they should have done in the very beginning was put in some kind of limit where you couldn't get more than 5 levels in a 24 hour period. After 5 levels, no more exp until the next day. Then they wouldn't have to invent so many schemes and tricks and whatnot to slow down leveling (which obviously haven't worked). And if it would have been from the beginning, nobody would complain because that is just the way it was. Too late for that now though.

[Safire]

What they should have done in the very beginning was put in some kind of limit where you couldn't get more than 5 levels in a 24 hour period. After 5 levels, no more exp until the next day. Then they wouldn't have to invent so many schemes and tricks and whatnot to slow down leveling (which obviously haven't worked). And if it would have been from the beginning, nobody would complain because that is just the way it was. Too late for that now though.

WHA? no exp after 5 levels in 24 hours? what are you talking about you know how badly that would suck...if any limiters were to be put in make it so the most possible exp you can get from mobs is 150% of the full exp from the mob itself if your under 10 levels below the mob(most possible added by multi bonus being 50% so 100% mob solo or basically100%+50+=150% witth max multi bonus)also if you took away 10% the max exp we would only get 20% left in full groups anything that drastic is insane though....5 levels thats crap...specially for noobs who usually get to level 10 ish on this first day anyways you should not change the max exp from mmobs themselves or people will be forced to PL to llevel at all anyways i coud see it being lowered on how much it boosts up

[Senkeleron Fell]

5 per day means you could still get level 100 in 20 days. Do you really want to play with someone who goes from 0 to 100 in a week? Really?

[Kulamata]

This is actually a complex issue. Many of the posts above take one example, out of the many possible, and argue from that one point.

There is a difference between a kid leeching, contributing nothing to the group, and learning nothing about playing his class anda player who has 200 completed wolf quests and ison his/her fifth school. As we awaitnew content, it is mainly the ability to MC quickly that keeps those players in game.And they get the interest of carefully choosing classes that complement each other.
Another casethat has not been considered above is crafters who need techs and forms. Since the loot is usually generously shared, it gives them an opportunity to pick up badly needed forms and techs. They may well be high level crafters, but lower level adventurers; I am opposed to barring them from participating by using rating lockouts or whatever.

The multipleenemy bonus is a case of increased risk giving increased reward. With my classes at least, I seem to takedamage at adisproportionate rate with multiple enemies. Onegolem may have trouble hitting me at all, but three sure seem to manage. And I can easily self-heal the damage a mult-strike causes, but three or more mutlistrike hits? Noop.

It is worth remembering that it takes multi-classing and considerable skill (including the choice of classes) to pull thosemobs of mobs and stay alive. And it takes a pretty good group for the puller to pull to. If I join one of the islandpickup groups, I can easily get 4 dp in a day. Full party wipeouts are not that rare.

I speak from somewhere in the middle. I have the 200 wolf quests, and got heartily sick of wolves, marrows, and wraiths. The CS were a great relief. I have a century in ranger, my first love, and a recent century in spiritist, plus some healer and mage for gifts and MultiCast I. I solo appropriate golems, and occasionally visit the islands, fire, ice, or satyr, withmore capable players. (And I have never ever gotten xp from a mob that approximated 42K. I wish!) .

The players are in the best position to deal with the situation. If it matters to the players in a group, a leechermay notbe invited to joinan island group, and they will go away. If amajor player is working on "The Perfect Combination" they'd be welcome in any group. (Many aregood RP'ers too, to help pass the time pleasantly. And some are old friends.)

Based on their track record, I simply do not thinkAE/Tulga can deal with this issue with the required finesse; whether from resource limitations or philosophy I don't know, and it really does not matter.

And this is NOT a real problem. The one real problem is that players leave, or come and do not stay. And we dwindle. I am for ANYTHING thatattractsor retains players, and utterly opposed to anything that might drive players away. Ibelieve strongly that any proposed change needs to be considered in this light, first, last, and only.

[Anikitos]

I think its time someone disscused this issue. Alot of players are lving fast, as i see it there are 2 main reasons:
1) We dont have anything better to do, the game has shifted from focus on community and events to pure lving, its all about getting the next one and fast.

2) Why do ppl lvl so ******** fast? Multiple enemy bonus + fast spawning easy mobs. A week ago i knocked in 42k xp.....for one mob. That was at rating 164. Something is obviously wrong imo. The game itself changed and suddenly focused on heals and AoE damage with the multiple enemy bonus and for a time it was relativly good. But with the new lvl 120 mobs that are easier than marrows in some cases thing have turned in a direction i dont like myself


So my question to all you players: Am i the only person who thinks this is wrong, if not, what ideas do you have to solv/better this issue.

The reason ppl go to those islands is simple:

1. Massive xp if you got a good puller/tank.
2. Pathetic weak mobs.
3. Risk vs Reward is pretty impressive as there is little or no risk with 1 or 2 key killers.
4. You can go there for techs/forms aswell, solo.

Now, what can be done about this:

1. Decrease the spawn, dramatically...i guarantee you ppl will STOP going there asap.
2. You could put rating locks on the portals, like rating 80+.
3. Put in groups of lvl 120 Vexators or some lvl 120 WA forces in the middle of the fyakki/tarantula/flies spawns on Elnath.

Problem solved.

Here is some aftermath.

Most high lvl players, inculding you Fhrain and me and ... wth, 99% of them with our 155+ rating have at some point lvled on Elnath.
The reality is that most have recieved2 classes worth of xp there if not more, most likely more.
I personally started to notice Elnath when i wasat the end of my nr.3 "100"class and have received great xp there.

We "used" Elnath and other good spots to serve our ends, now that we dont need those places we start to bring up the "problem".
Yes, noobs wont learn the game when they lvl on Elnath, relying only on high lvl killers.
So what, who cares...we wont be teaming with them anyway, intentionally anyhow.

The problem is not only on noobs getting PL'ed but on chrs with a rating above 100 getting easy, TOO EASY, xp on that place.

The majority of the techs and forms being sold today are from...Elnath.

So the bottom line is, everyone of us that did lvls on Elnath knew from DAY 1 that it was insane XP.
First day i went there and saw it with my own eyes i was like, wtf is this.
Yet, nobody said a word about it.

Because we needed the xp.....we dont anymore.




Anikitos

[Fhrain]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Fhrain wrote: I think its time someone disscused this issue. Alot of players are lving fast, as i see it there are 2 main reasons:
1) We dont have anything better to do, the game has shifted from focus on community and events to pure lving, its all about getting the next one and fast.

2) Why do ppl lvl so ******** fast? Multiple enemy bonus + fast spawning easy mobs. A week ago i knocked in 42k xp.....for one mob. That was at rating 164. Something is obviously wrong imo. The game itself changed and suddenly focused on heals and AoE damage with the multiple enemy bonus and for a time it was relativly good. But with the new lvl 120 mobs that are easier than marrows in some cases thing have turned in a direction i dont like myself


So my question to all you players: Am i the only person who thinks this is wrong, if not, what ideas do you have to solv/better this issue.








We "used" Elnath and other good spots to serve our ends, now that we dont need those places we start to bring up the "problem".
Yes, noobs wont learn the game when they lvl on Elnath, relying only on high lvl killers.
So what, who cares...we wont be teaming with them anyway, intentionally anyhow.

The problem is not only on noobs getting PL'ed but on chrs with a rating above 100 getting easy, TOO EASY, xp on that place.

The majority of the techs and forms being sold today are from...Elnath.

So the bottom line is, everyone of us that did lvls on Elnath knew from DAY 1 that it was insane XP.
First day i went there and saw it with my own eyes i was like, wtf is this.
Yet, nobody said a word about it.

Because we needed the xp.....we dont anymore.




Anikitos

No...i wont have that thrown at me even from you friend and i have to say im rather offended you did.FYI i havent touched the place for quite some time.If you remember back when we first found the spot you`ll remember if found it to be almost like cheating and wrong, but in the end ignored it. My bad..

Maybe i should have written this post a month ago, but the elnath mobs arent that good xp...it was the 42k xp for 1 mob that hit me 2 weeks ago before i left on holiday that really made me life an eyebrow. Besides, i aint the first to raise a finger, its been said before.
Dont need it anymore?...Thats untrue, who said i was done lving? I need it more than ever.
Maybe im just an old dwarf who lved on marrows, try and compare that to this and it seems weird, like the xp i made there was just a complete waste of time. Have mercy on a old crippeled dwarf[:)]

[Anikitos]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Anikitos wrote: [img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Fhrain wrote: I think its time someone disscused this issue. Alot of players are lving fast, as i see it there are 2 main reasons:
1) We dont have anything better to do, the game has shifted from focus on community and events to pure lving, its all about getting the next one and fast.

2) Why do ppl lvl so ******** fast? Multiple enemy bonus + fast spawning easy mobs. A week ago i knocked in 42k xp.....for one mob. That was at rating 164. Something is obviously wrong imo. The game itself changed and suddenly focused on heals and AoE damage with the multiple enemy bonus and for a time it was relativly good. But with the new lvl 120 mobs that are easier than marrows in some cases thing have turned in a direction i dont like myself


So my question to all you players: Am i the only person who thinks this is wrong, if not, what ideas do you have to solv/better this issue.








We "used" Elnath and other good spots to serve our ends, now that we dont need those places we start to bring up the "problem".
Yes, noobs wont learn the game when they lvl on Elnath, relying only on high lvl killers.
So what, who cares...we wont be teaming with them anyway, intentionally anyhow.

The problem is not only on noobs getting PL'ed but on chrs with a rating above 100 getting easy, TOO EASY, xp on that place.

The majority of the techs and forms being sold today are from...Elnath.

So the bottom line is, everyone of us that did lvls on Elnath knew from DAY 1 that it was insane XP.
First day i went there and saw it with my own eyes i was like, wtf is this.
Yet, nobody said a word about it.

Because we needed the xp.....we dont anymore.




Anikitos

No...i wont have that thrown at me even from you friend and i have to say im rather offended you did.FYI i havent touched the place for quite some time.If you remember back when we first found the spot you`ll remember if found it to be almost like cheating and wrong, but in the end ignored it. My bad..

Maybe i should have written this post a month ago, but the elnath mobs arent that good xp...it was the 42k xp for 1 mob that hit me 2 weeks ago before i left on holiday that really made me life an eyebrow. Besides, i aint the first to raise a finger, its been said before.
Dont need it anymore?...Thats untrue, who said i was done lving? I need it more than ever.
Maybe im just an old dwarf who lved on marrows, try and compare that to this and it seems weird, like the xp i made there was just a complete waste of time. Have mercy on a old crippeled dwarf[img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]

I aint accusing you lol, notice that i said i lvled on Elnath aswell as you well know.
Whats wrong with us getting xp there anyway, most of us has and on many occasions it has even been fun.
I allways enjoyed your oversized pulls on Elnath..hehe.

There is no reason to feel offended by this, you got no reason too.
As to the 42k xp mob, i have never seen such xp even when i pull half the island solo so i dont know how you got that.

When i say you dont need Elnath anymore i mean that your rating is begining to come to an end as you know it...not MANY things you can lvl besides Guardian or? :)

You aint the first to raise a finger, i raised the same issues some time ago on the thread "Latest thread on Elnath".........i am sure others have raised it too.

In regards to marrows, it was stupid lvling on these and boring as hell.
Did my first 100 on these and quit the game of boredoom, you cant tell me you actually enjoyed lvling on slow-motion.
Lvling at warp 9 aint right either, something in between is more correct.

In any matter like i told you when you returned from your vaccation, there are other places for us to hunt besides Elnath as you know...we will fix your guardian! :)


Anikitos

[Fhrain]

HEY!! i loved my marrows!![;)]

And about that 42k...that was weird..because i got 20k for the rest of the mobs, so im wondering if there is a bug in the calculation system?

I guess it all comes down to the fact that games change to better suit the market, i might not like it but its a fact sadly...

[imported_Twelvebagger]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Fhrain wrote: [img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Anikitos wrote: [img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Fhrain wrote: I think its time someone disscused this issue. Alot of players are lving fast, as i see it there are 2 main reasons:
1) We dont have anything better to do, the game has shifted from focus on community and events to pure lving, its all about getting the next one and fast.

2) Why do ppl lvl so ******** fast? Multiple enemy bonus + fast spawning easy mobs. A week ago i knocked in 42k xp.....for one mob. That was at rating 164. Something is obviously wrong imo. The game itself changed and suddenly focused on heals and AoE damage with the multiple enemy bonus and for a time it was relativly good. But with the new lvl 120 mobs that are easier than marrows in some cases thing have turned in a direction i dont like myself


So my question to all you players: Am i the only person who thinks this is wrong, if not, what ideas do you have to solv/better this issue.








We "used" Elnath and other good spots to serve our ends, now that we dont need those places we start to bring up the "problem".
Yes, noobs wont learn the game when they lvl on Elnath, relying only on high lvl killers.
So what, who cares...we wont be teaming with them anyway, intentionally anyhow.

The problem is not only on noobs getting PL'ed but on chrs with a rating above 100 getting easy, TOO EASY, xp on that place.

The majority of the techs and forms being sold today are from...Elnath.

So the bottom line is, everyone of us that did lvls on Elnath knew from DAY 1 that it was insane XP.
First day i went there and saw it with my own eyes i was like, wtf is this.
Yet, nobody said a word about it.

Because we needed the xp.....we dont anymore.




Anikitos

No...i wont have that thrown at me even from you friend and i have to say im rather offended you did.FYI i havent touched the place for quite some time.If you remember back when we first found the spot you`ll remember if found it to be almost like cheating and wrong, but in the end ignored it. My bad..

Maybe i should have written this post a month ago, but the elnath mobs arent that good xp...it was the 42k xp for 1 mob that hit me 2 weeks ago before i left on holiday that really made me life an eyebrow. Besides, i aint the first to raise a finger, its been said before.
Dont need it anymore?...Thats untrue, who said i was done lving? I need it more than ever.
Maybe im just an old dwarf who lved on marrows, try and compare that to this and it seems weird, like the xp i made there was just a complete waste of time. Have mercy on a old crippeled dwarf[img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]



In regards to marrows, it was stupid lvling on these and boring as hell.
Did my first 100 on these and quit the game of boredoom, you cant tell me you actually enjoyed lvling on slow-motion.
Lvling at warp 9 aint right either, something in between is more correct.



Anikitos

I disagree with this, but that?s just my taste. I thought the leveling pace on Marrows was about right. It took roughly 6-10 hours to get from 99 to 100 in marrowland, and to me, that seems appropriate considering you?re maxing out a class (at this time).

[Cylian Golas]

Yeah marrows seemed about right to me also. As for these level 120 Fyakki`s, well it is just xp too fast imo. I did from lvl 97-100 in just over 2 hours for my fifth century and that is insane.

[Korial]

It's plainly obvious the multiple enemy bonus isn't broken...

...as long as you're still levelling up lots of schools to 100 and want it done as soon as possible.