Tulga I donnow what your doing, but please do it fast!!!

[refuse]

...this thread doesn't help a bit; there's no suggestions, just a lot of screenies of empty towns - really helpfull...

But honestly,
My suggestion was.
Tulga take responsibility. Do what is right by the paying customers, be honest open and forthcomming. That buys alot of goodwill.

Secerecy, failed target dates, and lack of communication doesn't help.

Blaming, or implying the customers need to step up doesn't work.

Continously saying "it is comming" doesn't work.

So personal responsibilty.

Who is John Galt?
(atlas shrugged)

[Amerelium]

...then send a sh*tload of emails to Tulga - I'm sure that will be more effective - these kinds of threads only puts off potential players...

[refuse]

Honest reviews do hurt companies with something to hide.

For companies that are doing well it doesn't.

Your post is indicitive that it is I who am responsible.

Perhaps a player who would have payed to play will write me to say they are glad for the honest opinion, and the effort/time/money it saved them.

Perhapt Tulga will see this and change their policy towards paying customers.

Either way, silence may help "hook" players until they find out the same problems that are posted all over this forum.

But soultionsfrom Tulga will keep players, and get more players and quiet the "threads" like this.

[Rainbow]

Amerelium, you say that with no suggestions in this thread, and only Vahrokh's screenshots of the empty towns, this thread will not help the situation.

What are you suggesting here to improve the situation? Would you like us all to pay again so that we may log in and make our own community event?

The community event could be called "Wearing Blinkers". We could arrange a time, date and town in game, and we could all log simultaneously so that Vahrokh could take some more screenshots and post those here instead.

The reward could be a dose of lag as we all converge upon one town and a sense of satisfaction that for maybe a few weeks a few new players may be fooled into believing that is what they may actually expect to see in game should they choose to subscribe to it and play. Unfortuantely, after they find out that the screenshots were orchestrated, they may choose to say "on your bike" and take themselves off to another game where many playersARE the norm.

Valheru is right for speaking up here about his concerns, and those adding to the thread, albeit in what may appear to be a negative way, are not doing the game or Tulga/GN a disservice. Without the knowledge of how some players currently feel, you are expecting Tulga/GN to do a job without tools.

I would ask you in all sincerity how long you feel is reasonable to expect us to give patience and wait for the game to be mended? How long you believe is a fair time before we should be told the outcome of the discussions and, therefore, way forward between Tulga/GN? I have been showing patience since the first dayHorizons could be played in England,how many months is that now? Do you not feel that is a reasonable time?

I see statements here that are only honest opinions and let's face it a picture, or a few screenshots do not lie.

In saying this, I would reiterate, that there is nothing more I would prefer than for an overnight fix that would allow me to log in and have a smooth gaming experience with a bit of fun thrown in for good measure. As we know that won't happen overnight, I will continue giving my money to a company that can currently deliver that.

Horizons will now have to improve their game without my few pennys each month and work to entice me back.

Rainbow

[Seranthor]

Shulahravaukar,

Sending them email hundreds of times does nothing... they can easily sweep it into the trash. When concerns are made public for the world to see then with enough effort then TG will have to wake up to the reality of whats happening.

Your insinuation that hiding our heads in the sand will help more than exposing the situations to scrutiny is very flawed indeed.We've tried your way of 'wait and see' and 'Give them more time to get it right'. Perhaps your not aware of the state of things in your EU gaming world. THAT is what happens when you 'wait and see'. What is happening here (or not happening) in NA is evidence of 'Give them more time to get it right'. Maybe you have failed to understand that AE (now TG) is bleeding to death financially (look up bankruptcy in the dictionary). If they dont get it right, get it right in a hurry then this current round of investors will be bled dry and again we'll see AE/TG back in court looking for bankruptcy protection again.

[Ixalmaris]

With the danger of making myself unpopular, imo TG should immediatly stop what they are currently doing and make something which will help the game to survive/get better.

What is currently planned? ARop, 120 cap, lairs. That are all things for high level characters, but it won't attract new ones. At best they will attract older players who subscribe for one month or two to do the Arop, or max their character out before leaving again. New player will gain nothing from it. What use is it to grow even bigger at level 100 when the first 60 levels are tendicious and boring?
When you want new players, thenmake some low level content.

Thats currently one of the many problems the game has. Nearly everyone who plays is high level and wants high level content but to attract new players (which is necessary for survival) low level content has to be done which the current player base don't benefit from.

[cattoy]

With the danger of making myself unpopular, imo TG should immediatly stop what they are currently doing and make something which will help the game to survive/get better.

What is currently planned? ARop, 120 cap, lairs. That are all things for high level characters, but it won't attract new ones. At best they will attract older players who subscribe for one month or two to do the Arop, or max their character out before leaving again. New player will gain nothing from it. What use is it to grow even bigger at level 100 when the first 60 levels are tendicious and boring?
When you want new players, thenmake some low level content.

Thats currently one of the many problems the game has. Nearly everyone who plays is high level and wants high level content but to attract new players (which is necessary for survival) low level content has to be done which the current player base don't benefit from.

Hear, hear!

Good luck selling it to TulgAE, but if it doesn't happen, they might as well delete the training isles entirely and let the alts train on Lesser Aradoth if they aren't PLing on Elnath.

[Cadfael]

Shulahravaukar,

Sending them email hundreds of times does nothing... they can easily sweep it into the trash. When concerns are made public for the world to see then with enough effort then TG will have to wake up to the reality of whats happening.

Your insinuation that hiding our heads in the sand will help more than exposing the situations to scrutiny is very flawed indeed.We've tried your way of 'wait and see' and 'Give them more time to get it right'. Perhaps your not aware of the state of things in your EU gaming world. THAT is what happens when you 'wait and see'. What is happening here (or not happening) in NA is evidence of 'Give them more time to get it right'. Maybe you have failed to understand that AE (now TG) is bleeding to death financially (look up bankruptcy in the dictionary). If they dont get it right, get it right in a hurry then this current round of investors will be bled dry and again we'll see AE/TG back in court looking for bankruptcy protection again.

If they are such in a hurry, the only solution for them is to make a lot of players subscribe.

To attract new player : make advertisement and tell the gamers how Horizon is different from WoW (no pvp, multi class) and Eq2 (craft, soloability, multi class)

To attract players who left : add what is missing (compare to WoW and Eq2) : adventurer LOOT (no craft needed), hunting grounds AND Multi class Balance ! yes I said 9 month ago on tazoon "if the adventurer left the game, bye bye the crafter"

But imho the actual player base is much more important for the game survival because, it is those players who will make new player coming and old players return. And to keep the actual players base, they need to much more communicate of what are the plan for the immediate future (less than 6 month).

*sorry for this really poor english post, but this night the Aegror make us hunt till really late in the night (loot, aggro, loot, death, run, aggro, loot, rezz, aggro, loot, ...) I even found a blighted mythril earing +50 UA + 25 STR[H]*

sprd 99, shaman 76

[Ariwena]

The problem is there is just nothing do to.

Oh yes I can build on my plot and lvl up my next craft, or I can go hunt on alged or corvus or mithril golems and lvl up my next adventure class, but face it, thats all.

And altho i do love Horizons multiclassing and craft system, its the best there is out there, there is nothing else to do, face it the best quest ingame is the last vault upgrade, that one is so much fun but its a one in his kind.

Bring me 5 mithril golem mettles..... i'm sorry but that is not a quest, thats grinding and boring

quests like the lvl 10 scout one back from the beginning, go there and scout for enemies, then find that location to return to your trainen adn receiving a nice reward like the shadow bow.... these things the game need, not like bring me 5 trophies and i give ya some xp

[refuse]

Thats currently one of the many problems the game has. Nearly everyone who plays is high level and wants high level content but to attract new players (which is necessary for survival) low level content has to be done which the current player base don't benefit from.

Not unpopular, honest.


See here is the sticky situation for Tulga.

1) They need us paying customers to keep paying, to keep the lights on.
Perhaps they are stable at this size and can maintain their buisness as such with the current base of players.

To do this, they need to meet the current player requirements, while having a plan to recruit new players in at least equal numbers to players that leave.

2) A company must grow.
This means that they need to attract new players to the game.
This means the new player issues must be addressed.

3) They have to increase retention, and public (paying public) perception of the game.
This means new subscribers stay in the game.
The older subscribers stay in the game.
And the public (word of mouth) opinion of the game is increased to promote new subscribers and maintain current subscribers.


So to do this they have to meet both ends of the spectrum. New content and better introduction for new players as well as new contnet and better game play for older players.

6 months of focus on new players will cause old players to leave and remove their income base.

6 months of focus on old players will prevent new player retention (Or promote power leveling to the level of the content).

As I see it now, they may be doing either, both or none of these. But the message is they are doing all of this, just after "AROP". Of course that is now many many months late, and thus meaningless in itself.

They need to reward players that are playing and paying.
They need to attract new customers.
They need to turn around the majorityof player's opinions. In reality someone will always have a problem but the majority of your customers need to be happy. Not just paying, but happy.

Now the normal informaiton is "we just can't do it with the staff we have" in which case they do one of the above two things (new or old players). Focusing on new will change a perception on the market but may underine their paying customer base. Focus on the old may keep the money comming in, but prevent expansion of their customer base. The current trend isn't working for either. "It is comming" doesn't work unless you have established a trust with your customers.

IN the case of Blizzard, they are late with their products, but their products shine. So being late is a sign of concern for quality. Can the same be said for the perception of AE/Tulga? Or is it a concern of focus, manpower, commitment and more.

Tulga can accomplish both (I think) by focusing on turning the opinions of their paying customers into one of trust and understanding, while offering tidbits and content, they focus on beginner content. Alienating your paying customers is bad.

The AROP works for the people that play dragons. Just as, if it happens, confection finishing works for people that play confectioners, and same for monk, wizard. . . .
But a sequential list of fixes with the "it is comming" just doesn't work.

Setting expectations and commiting and delivering to promises is the cornerstone of buisness.
As it is right now the expectations are:
Confection to be done after Arop
Racial buildings after AROP
Lairs after AROP
. . .

Everything is after AROP, but AROP was promised in nov/december then first quarter (march) now. . . So when are the rest? If we assume AROP is 6+ months late, can't we assume beginner content wouldn't be ready for 6+ months. And if they focus on beginner can they do anything else?

As Gomer Pile said:
Fool me once shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

If we perceive we have been fooled (promised dates, promised content), then our only real choice is to accpet we will be fooled again (avoid being fooled by accepting that any statement is a mistruth), or avoid the potential of being fooled by leaving.

Communication is an excellent tool to avoiding these situations. It takes time, but adds a measure of "intimacy" to the relationship.

Adaption and use of the fan base is another way. Why isn't Pekka's map (for basic resources and items and people) in the game? Without it the game is painful. Perhaps this is planned, but unless I get on the "moderated IRC" I don't have that information.

So communication would be a first good step.
Honesty would be a great step.

[refuse]

The problem is there is just nothing do to.

Oh yes I can build on my plot and lvl up my next craft, or I can go hunt on alged or corvus or mithril golems and lvl up my next adventure class, but face it, thats all.

And altho i do love Horizons multiclassing and craft system, its the best there is out there, there is nothing else to do, face it the best quest ingame is the last vault upgrade, that one is so much fun but its a one in his kind.

Bring me 5 mithril golem mettles..... i'm sorry but that is not a quest, thats grinding and boring

quests like the lvl 10 scout one back from the beginning, go there and scout for enemies, then find that location to return to your trainen adn receiving a nice reward like the shadow bow.... these things the game need, not like bring me 5 trophies and i give ya some xp

The "racial specific" blighted items are a step and indication this is possible.

The other advantage of what you are saying is that class specific equipment from quests means player have a bigger attachment to their class. DO I switch to blood mage to use my Blood mage equipment, or go with regular teched equipment for Spiritist, or do I adventure for spiritist equipment. . .

Stuff like that.

The library idea seems very cool to me (see the library thread in suggestions)

[imported_Onnidrah]

At forums u hear mostly bad things about horizons maybe horizons needs to advert more or make an 14 day trail version so newbie's can see more of the world and not get to lvl 10 or so

[Ixalmaris]

Would that really help?
I ask you, is there really much to see in the world?

[imported_Onnidrah]

Their mostly is for the lvl mid lvls but game needs to get some more stuff like nature stuff what u can get killed by atm only water is but why not swim in water and fall damage if u fall from an clif and swaps if u stay to long in it u die

[Sigi1985]

...this thread doesn't help a bit; there's no suggestions, just a lot of screenies of empty towns - really helpfull...



And not only that,this thread (amongothers)is really depressing and almost driving me away.
OMG there must be something wrong with me becauseI like this game.
Everybody says it's boring, there's nothing to do, no players, no content, no challengeetc. etc. I must be really stupid to still be playing and enjoying this game.

[oluviel]

No way to get better if you don't point out the problems

[refuse]

...this thread doesn't help a bit; there's no suggestions, just a lot of screenies of empty towns - really helpfull...

Helps if you read the posts, instead of skimming.

[Sigi1985]

It indeed helps if YOU read the posts instead of skimming.

I was quoting a post a bit before me (you should have read it if YOU read the posts!
only the quoting didn't work so I just copied and pasted and added my bit about getting depressed.

[Finduilas]

If they are such in a hurry, the only solution for them is to make a lot of players subscribe.

To attract new player : make advertisement and tell the gamers how Horizon is different from WoW (no pvp, multi class) and Eq2 (craft, soloability, multi class)


I really wouldn't try to compare HZ to either WoW or EQ2 which between them have over a million subscribers and rising.

HZ is better than both in:

Vastly superior crafting system.
Playable dragon class.
Ability to multiclass adventure/craft.

HZ is inferior to both in:

Content. Few quests in HZ, almost none for biped prestige classes. EQ2 and WoWhave huge numbers of quests, including many arc/multi-part, with substantial rewards for completion at the right level. You can upgrade your weapons and gear through quests, earn far better exp than the same time spent grinding and good cash for the level as well. Quests also have multiple rewards, so you can select the item you want, hence no need for class specific quests.

Droppable loot. In addition to tradeskill items you get weapons and armor drops, some useful some not, which can be sold to vendors, players, or worn. This can be a good source of income and a way to occasionally upgrade. Named mobs have special loot, and often drop an item you need to complete a quest, though you must have accepted the quest first for it to drop.

Elite mobs/quests. These can be soloed, but only when much higher than required level, by which time the reward will not be a decent upgrade. To fully benefit, by completing at equal level or higher you NEED to get a group together. Quests can be shared so that everyone in the group can do all the quests and this provides a way for guild members to get together and adventure.

Dungeons. WoW is a seamless world, no zones, yet is has many underground areas to explore and they represent a signifigant challenge, and changes your play style completely. The best rewards are further in, as you'd expect.

Auction houses in WoW. Instead of LOADS of pointless consigners there are just 3, 1 for each faction, 1 neutral. It means EVERYONE in your faction will see your stuff. And it's an auction, so peoplewill bid higher than you expect, so you sell higher.

Interactive objects. Both have chests, barrels, crates, and quest related items you can click on in the game world to open for a reward or quest item.

Swimming. In both you can swim, so no drowning if you fall off an ice flow. Many under water areas are included to explore, fight, quest in, including sunken ships, ancient ruins.

Mounts. You can buy various types of mounts in both. In WoW you can ride giant cats, horses, boars...

Pets. Certain classes can have combat pets, and in WoW ALL classes can have a "show" pet, such as a parrot or small cat, or an owl which follows you around but never gets attacked.

Visible cloaks. A wide range of different wearable cloaks, plus sheilds. wooden, iron, weapons, even armor. Very few players look identical even at the same level.

Guild tabard. Not sure about eq but in WoW you can wear a tabard over your chest plate with the guild coat-of-arms on it, which you can design your self.

As for PvP, well in WoW on a "normal" server you can avoid PvP almost completely even in disputed areas. You flag yourself as a PvP target if you attack the opposing factions NPCs, or a player that has attacked your NPCs, or you actually go into one of the enemies capital areas, as in the noob zone. You can stand shoulder to shoulder with an enemy player killing the same mobs and have no fear, they CANNOT attack you. However, if you want the challenge you can start on a PvP server if you want.

Soloing. Well WoW is equal if not better than HZ, and I hear EQ2 has had a lot of solo content added.

Community. I seen snobby elitists claiming that HZ has/had a far better community but I just don't buy it. I have met my share of idiots in all games, yes, even HZ. However, EQ2 have 350,000 players, so it will have more idiots simply by percentage. WoW is approaching 1 million, so that percentage will represent even more. Perhaps HZ had such a tight knit bunch because everyone pulled together during the numerous crisis and difficulties, but even that community as dwindled almost to nothing.

You want suggestions, try adding some of the above.

[Vahrokh]

...this thread doesn't help a bit; there's no suggestions, just a lot of screenies of empty towns - really helpfull...



And not only that,this thread (amongothers)is really depressing and almost driving me away.
OMG there must be something wrong with me becauseI like this game.
Everybody says it's boring, there's nothing to do, no players, no content, no challengeetc. etc. I must be really stupid to still be playing and enjoying this game.

There's nothing wrong with you about liking the game...
Most of those here are the truest and most dedicated player, enduring a lot of bad things.

One of them (Ariwena) just told that theking is naked.
All know the issues, few point them out (because usually others will flame them).

I took screenshots of the issues.
You can talk all what you want, but screenies of the most important cities being completely empty (and not duringodd hours)are a (sadly, believe me) proof that something is not going well as we would love they did.

It's something to submit to the developers so they are made aware that it's about time to take out some rabbit off the hat.

Yes, you like the game. So do I. So does the thread starter and most of the others.
But we are apparently too few liking the game, for some reason.
Of course the devs got some fresh money and all, but they cannot go on indefinitely fed by the investor(s), they must figure out a way to actually attract new people and keep them for more than the average 2 days they resist.

We old timers resist the many shortcomings, new people are bombarded by ads about grand and polished games already.
They expect to find a finished, polished, content filled game.
The competitors do.
The game's race is about what is more interesting, what has the best plot, what has this and that. The competition is about the content.

Horizons, as muchfine as it is, is years behind schedule. The foundations are here, the game engine is more or less here.
But it's not enough to get players.
Horizons should beat the competitors because it's content leverages on the good craft system and uses the combat system.

As of now, it's fun because it takes a lot to learn (and the levelling works and dinging levels gives some satisfaction).

Again, I repeat, Horizons should beat the competitors because it's content leverages on the good craft system and uses the combat system.

But there is not the content, "just" thecraft and combat system the game should have as means to express the content.

It's like buying a Ferrari without the engine. That car would be extremely cool. You'd feel excited just seating in it. But then you turn the engine on... and discover it's not here and in it's place there's a city car one. With a label on it saying "genuine Ferrari Engine coming soon".

Many customers would regardless return those Ferrari at once and start talking bad around about it and get a cheaper, more limitedbut working Porsche or something.

Others would stick a lot, but after a year they would get discouraged, jaded and will trash the Ferrari - they lost even the money on it by not returning it earlier, wasting a year.

Others would resist even indefinitely, their love for the brand being beyond reason.

But the perspective new customers would arrive in the car shop, discover at once the "problem" and won't even bother spending a copper on such a car, that after a year is still unfinished.

The perspective customers, not the hardcore current ones will bring new blood into the game.
The perspective customers have tons of choices and they are not biased at liking Horizons or not.

What would you expect off a player checking out Wow and Horizons and having just few days to make himself and idea?

In the former, Wow(at least my "gone friends off Hz tell me) there's much "noise" and all, but there are many possible friends, the game is in his ascending phase, is new, is stable, full of quests and with a very well thought loot system. And very simplified craft system, that sadly for who loves Horizons, is majorly preferred over an heavy implementation with no good an fun instructions on even starting it.

In the latter you find 200 people on for most of the day, the game's known and lost the "aura of new game" already, after 1 year it still has very visible and palpable bugs that the developers think are not important while they are the most felt by the players (the ones with the pockets), the few "true" quests were mostly removed at once instead of being just adjusted to the new mobs positions and were replaced by mindless boring Kill X of Y or craft N or X. The loot system it's awful at best, with a quotient of lasting satisfaction for an adventure next to 0 (sure, you will be happy to have looted 1 ogre toe or Mining IV, but they are just "basics" of the game, not real and cool loot. Unless you are feticist and love undead toes). And the "improvement", blighted loot, is one of the most unlucky "improvements" available.

Of course Hz has tons of good sides, really tons.
But will a perspective player see them in the limited time he has? And many won't even give Hz the full 7 days to prove it's worth.
The average newbie "duration before quitting bored or finding no help or being it too difficult" is 2 days.

Something must change.