Reconsider new Drop-Tables

[Narkano]

The latest patches brought quite a few changes to the drop-tables but I think a few of themmight need somereconsideration.

- dragon hoardables are dropped far too often. Whenever Iam out hunting I bring back a really huge load of dragon hoardables. On the other hand I do not find the required tech-resources and trophies I was searching for. (I also have a dragon who likes the stuff, but this is not the point)

Most of the time the drop of dragon hoardables now also defies reason, sinceeven desert wolves, necroflies, spiders etc. drop coffers, crowns, scepters, urns, bells and ancient platemail ... not toocomprehensible especially since money drop was removed for the reason of not being logical.

-> I suggest to reduce drop rates a bit and limit it to the drop tables of those monsters who might reasonably carry them along.

- the same is true for those trinkets and colored pouches.They drop too often and to make it even worsemost of them are quite useless since no one would consider to use a blighted, cursed or tarnished trinket and no one needs that much fancy pouches. On the other hand they all have no value to the pawn broker either. I myself simply junk most of thoseuseless trinkets and pouches which is rather annoying when I am out hunting to find some seriously required resources.

-> Same suggestion as for dragon hoardables but to reduce drop rates even more.

- One might also wonder why Flame/Fire Pygmies, Ogres and Beetles drop loadsof bark and sap while thereis not even a single tree or other plant in Dralk.

Narkano

[Fireclaw]

I strongly disagree with most of the above. One of the biggest problems with Hz compared to the competition was the lack of real loot to give an incentive to actually hunt. Now that finally loot is being dropped in reasonable quantities some people it seems prefer the old system where almost no loot dropped (unless you were able to mass-farm fyakki on the satyr islands). Its far better for the health of the game, and I believe far more enjoyable to a larger number of players, that loot actually drops now.

Loot drop rates for good items should not be reduced. However, I do think that perhaps some of the lower end trinkets should perhaps be removed. Really, is anyone going to actually use a trinket that has a 90% chance of having a negative effect? For those who know their chances with a particular bad trinket, they will immediately delete it. Those unfamiliar with trinkets might try it, experience a bad effect, and mistakenly assume that ALL trinkets are useless or that the chances of getting a bad effect are more random than they actually are. Best to simply remove all the lower end trinkets.

[Narkano]

I spoke about dragon hoardables, which are only useful for a single race. Howto call them "real loot" and to consider the increased drop ratea new time and incentive to actually hunt I do not understand even for a dragon. btw I knowof some other dragons who also consider the drop rates too high ...

... and I didn't say anything about removing them, but to reduce the rates for them being dropped a bit and not have flies dropping ancient platemail any longer.

Nothing to say against an undead lord dropping a nice ancient two-handed bladefor example. That I would consider "real loot". But that was not the point of my suggestion ...

[PJ]

Meh, personally its acceptable as is.

If they moved all the new loot onto merely "sensible mobs" (WA, Ogres, Skulks, other "sentients") I'd say they should bump the drop rates on those mobs up again, and add some new "sensible" loot to the mobs who would no longer drop the new stuff. That's prob the only way I'd accept it.

[Jaraiden]

- dragon hoardables are dropped far too often. Whenever Iam out hunting I bring back a really huge load of dragon hoardables. On the other hand I do not find the required tech-resources and trophies I was searching for. (I also have a dragon who likes the stuff, but this is not the point)

Most of the time the drop of dragon hoardables now also defies reason, sinceeven desert wolves, necroflies, spiders etc. drop coffers, crowns, scepters, urns, bells and ancient platemail ... not toocomprehensible especially since money drop was removed for the reason of not being logical.

-> I suggest to reduce drop rates a bit and limit it to the drop tables of those monsters who might reasonably carry them along.

The Withered Scales event brought dragon hoard items into Istaria. The dragon tombs were raided by the WA, their remains defiled into the dragons seen in the Western dead zone.

Somehow, their treatures ended up among Desert Wolves and tiny necroflies and gruok and other creatures.

There should be some tightening of which monsters drop dragon hoardables. That is if lore and logic matters. Increased among the WA monsters (not the underpowered ones), load up current and new dragon WA monsters (also boosting their armor and other properties to toughen them toward Brysmendrik's words- "A foe as terrible as an undead Dragon is a far greater threat than you can possibly imagine").

However, Istaria is a land of convenience in Horizons 2.0, so don't expect anything to change for the betterment of the game overall, only to appease players and their action geared sense of "fun". Adds.

- the same is true for those trinkets and colored pouches.They drop too often and to make it even worsemost of them are quite useless since no one would consider to use a blighted, cursed or tarnished trinket and no one needs that much fancy pouches. On the other hand they all have no value to the pawn broker either. I myself simply junk most of thoseuseless trinkets and pouches which is rather annoying when I am out hunting to find some seriously required resources.

-> Same suggestion as for dragon hoardables but to reduce drop rates even more.

TulgAE made blighted items more appealing (thus tipping the PvE balance toward players) and will likely do the same for trinkets. I agree though, why risk an adverse effect from a Tarnished or so trinket (negligible hoard value, so could Use them and log out/in to remove the effect . . . . :: shrugs ::.)

But is newly added stuff. Makes for happy players that are not waiting for added unfinished-at-release content.

- One might also wonder why Flame/Fire Pygmies, Ogres and Beetles drop loadsof bark and sap while thereis not even a single tree or other plant in Dralk.

And Ice beetles and other creatures withstrange diets of (or affinity to collect) sap and bark. It is as it is, only TulgAE knows why they eat or keep that stuff in their pockets or otherwise. Likely related to same reason they carry knowledge of formulas and techniques (vice securing it with the crafters of their tribe).

The overall problem I have is no connection of lore for how dragon hoard items spread from dragon tombs to all other monsters. How are these other creatures finding them and have the affinity to carry them (would desert wolves carry them, or pile them in a hiddencave?).

Matters little, there is a larger issue with dragon hoard items, which will become more apparent soon (was before, will be again, only much more so).

[AmonGwareth]

To clarify you all realize that there is a % chance for a negative effect from EVERY single trinket, right?

Also, to further clarify, if you use a Blighted trinket you had a 10% chance of getting a beneficial augmentation that is MUCH more powerful than that of the negative augmentation you might get.

Let me put it this way... Say you use a Tier 1 ethereal trinket (90% chance of good augmentation). Its a so-so augmentation. Now, you use a blighted trinket. You get lucky and get a good augmentation out of it (10% chance). It is going to be MUCH better than the one you obtained from that ethereal.

That is the trade-off. If you don't wish to gamble, then delete the items or sell them. Or, you could use a blighted one before you get ready to logoff. Who knows, you might get a great augmentation out of it and decide to stay on. Or you might get a bad one and decide to logout for the night.

- Amon

[Narkano]

Yes, of course Amon. But I myself would onlyconsider usingtrinkets on the lower end of the tableif the benefical effectfrom a slight chance would stay with me much longer than the one I normally get. Whyin worst caserisk my life for a 10% chance of a 5-10 mins beneficial buff?

Another point of trinkets is, that many a beneficial effect requires an empty gift slot, which is never the case with me since I always carry tier V gifts according to my current occupation. So many beneficialeffects are simply wasted as theycannot takeeffect on me. On the other hand bad augmentationsalways take hold, since they are never based on gift slot use.

... and all this might only get interesting if trinkets are less frequent. Why using lower trinkets if Ireturn with50 of them (and as much dragon hoardables) from my hunt, 20 of them blessed or ethereal? ... and that if I was hunting resources for techs of which I only got 2 ...

Narkano

[AmonGwareth]

Good thing we fixed that then, huh? From the latest Blight patch notes...

Augmentations received from Consumable Trinkets no longer take a gift slot and attempt to overwrite existing augmentations.

But I will take look into the drop rate of the trinkets and perhaps we can adjust them.

- Amon

[Korial]

The biggest problem with the new trinkets/charms/tablets/etc is the fact that some of the debuffs are just incredibly disabling. There's no way during a hunt I'll use one, as having your Health limited to 10 basically means I'm going to relog, or go have a break for 10 minutes. I mean, these trinkets aren't free. They take effort to obtain. If you want to make them interesting, get rid of the bad effects, and make the good effects double-edged. For example:

15% chance to do 200% normal damage, attacks only - balanced by +10% recycle time to spells.
15% chance to do 200% normal damage, spells only - balanced by +10% recycle time to attacks.

You can easily have a range of buffs that where at the worst, you get hit by the debuff side, and at the best, the debuff doesn't affect your hunting style. Take Niatha's Harvest, where she "uses your life force until she no longer needs it", and you're stuck on 10 Health. Well, surely Niatha won't want you keeling over dead whilst she's using your life force, so change it to two versions:

Niatha's Harvest #1: Health limited to 10, immune to spell damage
Niatha's Harvest #2: Health limited to 10, immune to non-spell damage

You've got a great idea here, but currently the debuffs just break it. We could draw an analogy with other dropped loot, which by the way is always positive. Let's see, we could have:

- a dropped form, when scribed, has x% chance of just deleting a random form from your book.
- a dropped tech, when scribed, has x% chance of just deleting a random tech from your book.
- a dropped component, when used to make an item, has x% chance of just making the new item blow up.
- a dropped trophy, when handed in, isn't real, and the Trophy Hunter penalises you for trying to cheat the system.
- a dodgy hoard item, when hoarded, causes damage to the hoard and a net loss.

I hope you can see the somewhat inapplicable analogy here, but currently, put me in the "delete on loot" camp on these trinkets...

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

It sounds like most of you are wanting your cake and eating it too. : /

I personally *like* the new trinkets, bad or good. I think it is fun sitting on the sidelines to take a chance at a lower end trinket. If it comes up lemons then I continue to sit until it wears off if it is truly impairing (I've not experienced this yet but I know it can happen and yes, I still find it fun to take that chance; especially reading the descriptions on some of them make me laugh). If it comes up roses then I go and kill more mobs...

No one is *making* you use them. So you get lower end trinkets more often than higher end ones. Isn't that how it is meant to work? Why should trinkets work differently than other usable drops everyone wants in the game? "Give us usable loot like swords and really cool items like that but don't make them so easily obtainable cuz they wouldn't be so great then if everyone had one" is basically the jest of the requests for usable loot. So why is it trinkets should be treated differently? You've gotten, or are getting soon, what you wanted so why complain about it?!

*boggles her mind*

I will agree on one thing though. Tech component drops REALLY need to be looked at per monster. As it is the monsters who use to drop comps almost-always now absolutely drop always and the monsters who dropped almost-never-ever now drop almost-never. There is a HUGE imbalance in drop rates per monster so these could really use some attention.

[imported_Ssilmath]

I've got no problems at all with the trinkents...in fact, I love them, even the bad...Since I am primarily a melee fighter, all bad things that affect spells don't bother me...But I have gotten some that will cut my HP, do damage, cut my damage in half, etc...when that happens, I either sit it out (Does 5-10 minutes really have that much of an effect? Take the time to organize inventory or take a bio break) or I just press on ahead and have a funner, more challenging battle because of it...It would be cool if some bad effects had a good side effect (Such as 10 HP, invulnerable to non spell damage) but when it comes down to it, you don't have to use those trinkets...However, there are those who like to gamble, and so will use them...<Shrugs>There's two sides to everything, and if all loot had no downsides, then there wouldn't be that chance of bad that makes getting something good all that much more fun...

[Narkano]

Seems that I should mention again, that no one said the trinkets and especially the idea about them was outright bad -quite the opposite! Sould also mentionthat no one wants to remove them from the game - again quite the opposite! But perhaps find a balance with the drop rates to make them something special.

But I returned from my latest hunt a few minutes ago:

4 Fire Ogre Bludgeoners (which I was looking for)
17 Fire Pygmy Beatsticks
9Journeyman Forms
3 Tier IV Techs (which I was looking for)
67 Dragon Hoardables (my dragon is happy but I am not)
58 Trinkets (Lockets)
A few Money Bags I already used
Tons of Bark

...

Narkano

[AmonGwareth]

Narkano,

thanks! That list is great and is the type of information that is very helpful to us. I've passed it on to Manga and we'll take a further look at the drop-rates.

- Amon

[LaughingOtter]

"Not useful to me" and "not useful" are two very different things. Hunting storm ogres over the past two days, I've gotten exactly three "usefull" items - an expert spell, a T5 craft tech, and armor dye: purple. I've also gotten about 650 shining essence, which a guildie can use, and a good amount of cash. I also have 50 or so hoard items, but again, guildies can use those. Trophies I've gotten a lot of; they go to guildies, too.

Well. actually, the spell goes to a guildie, too. I already have the craft tech and armor dye, purple, so those are going to guildies too. So, aside from the cash & a couple levels, what do I have to show for those two days?

A lot of happy friends & guildmates. [H]

Please don't reduce the loot drops without a VERY good reason.

[AmonGwareth]

Don't worry, I'm not suggesting a reactionary nerf to the loot tables.

I am suggesting to Manga that we review the loot tables and perhaps determine what we want to drop most often. Personally, I'd rather the hoardables and trinkets not be the most common loot drop outside of the resource junk. But that is just me.

- Amon

[imported_tjl]

I think it would be best for the game if easy mobs like spiders and flys dropped only tech comps, or had a much lower chance for good drops like forms and the new trinkets and soon-coming set itmes etc.... The lesser mobs of istara get harvested way too much since they (last I checked) drop most things almost as frequently as the most difficult. the risk vs. reward is not logical, and is often taken advantage of.

[LaughingOtter]

I'd agree with the 'farmer' mobs having a much, much lower chance of anything besides tech comps & junk. Epic items should just NOT drop from necroflies, for example. Hoard is a different subject, though. Hoard should drop often enough for a dragon to be able to maintain or increase their hoard by hunting carefully, even solo.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

I like what's been done - I also like trinkets with the good/bad effects. Adds an element of fun for me. I'm pretty happy with the changes that have gone in and I'm sure as more things are added to the tables we could see less of those things that might be annoying to some.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

Just a thought on trinket/tablet effects....

Would it be possible to add onesound effect for all "good" effects and one sound effect for all "bad" effects?

Would be a tad bit easier than checking system feedback or clicking for effects on the little star icon.

[Narkano]

Really good idea ... missed something like that, too [:)]

Narkano