@Tulga please send GN the security certificate

[Milandra]

I wonder how long such maintenance would take .
Thinking about one week of downtime for a deep cleanup,would it be too long?

[Rainbow]

Tzeal, I do not wish to be a thorn in the side here, but, you are posting like you sre some sort of authority on the goings on/lack of goings on between Tulga/AE and GN.

I am intrigued as to your connections with both companies and the information that you must have access to that allows you to post so firm in your belief that all the blame must lay at GN's door.

This thread was started a little while ago, and unless I need glasses, I have not read one post that has been added to it by a member of Tulga/AE's staff offering any explanation to the players in Europe as to why we still have that ******** silly pop up window regarding the security certificate. Now if they were the totally sharing caring service provider that you claim youknow they are, surely by now, somebody with true authority on the matter would have at least took the time and trouble to explain what is the problem.

Perhaps you would like to enlighten us by sharing this evidence, that I can only assume you have, that allows you to condemn Luca and GN so strongly.

In the meantime, could the person responsible for the little annoying security pop up, please, take the time and trouble to sort out whatever it is that needs sorting out so that said little annoying pop up can be removed once and for all.

And as an aside, I am ocassionally getting the pesky pop up when logged into these forums too.


Rainbow

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Who remembers those people who spammed tazoon.com's boards about how GN abandoned them for Horizons and were slamming us players and Horizons for doing this (taking GNs attention off them)?

Looks like it is Unity's turn to be abandoned. Wonder which game they've abandoned them for?

[Larus-Fel]

and whats even more sad is no response from a dev.. how sad

[Tryagain]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Rainbow wrote:I am intrigued as to your connections with both companies and the information that you must have access to that allows you to post so firm in your belief that all the blame must lay at GN's door.

Simple. Look at the other games GN "runs". They don't know how to run ANY game. This is not just a problem they have with horizons and Tulga.

that argument would hold water if the fact that the security certificate issue is all Tulga's responsibility. GN is not allowed access to that domain and server to make the changes nescessary. Only Tulga can do this.

No as far as how the EU playerbase is being treated it is both Tulga's and GN's fault. The playerbase is being used as some kind of pawn in a corporate game. Of this there is no doubt.

[Vlisson]

Unfortunately we are not Tulga's customers

why not

Tulga gets money from GN, and we are customers from GN so our fee for HZ is a fee to Tulga too

[Tzael]

Rainbow, I don't think there is anything I have said in this topic that cannot be found elsewhere. You and I both want to see European players getting good support so let's not make examples of each other.

No as far as how the EU playerbase is being treated it is both Tulga's and GN's fault. The playerbase is being used as some kind of pawn in a corporate game. Of this there is no doubt.

Ok first of all, I 'think' I know why the security certificate request is taking so long. I can offer a few theories, take your pick. First of all Tulga might be unwilling to carry out any work for GN until GN agree to a maintenance contract that benefits themselves, the players, and Tulga. Then again, maybe Tulga refuses to set up something for the Istaria.com domain name on the grounds that Game Network are currently using that same security certificate for all their other games, not just Horizons ? There's more theories swimming around, but those two hold most weight, particularly the latter.

Sorry Tryagain, could you elaborate on why Tulga is responsible for Game Network's inability to respond to support tickets ? Or why Tulgais responsible for the lack of feedback from Game Network regarding the many problems on Unity ? I certainly won't deny the possibility that we players are victims of some political struggle, however from what I have seen I am pretty sure that if Tulga could help the Unity playerbase, it would. I'm not saying Tulga is a blameless entity in all of this, I do however think it is unfair to blame Tulga for simple things like GN's inability to handle a support queue.

[Rainbow]

A few little words like "I think" rather than speaking as an absoloute authority makes a lot of difference.

The thing that makes me wish that this thread had not started to turn into a GN versus Tulga/AE battle is what the original request was for. A simple, and very reasonable request to sort out that pesky pop up security certificate thing.

It is a pain in the back side to have it pop up with such regularity for a few reasons.

Being a tadge selfish about this, my most important reason is the frustration it causes when I absentmindedly forget it could pop up and have already pressed my little button to make my sign in page a full page. It freezes the whole process and I have to cancel and start again.

Next, and probably more important than me gettingmy knickers in a knotbecause it is a regular irritation, is the impression it may give to new people signing in. Others have stated numerous times how people they know are put off by the pop up and the words on it - ie. words about not a secure site etc. I won't be getting cross because my log in page freezes if it scares so many people away that the game is not viable for GN/TulgAE to run it anymore, and I thought that both companies were keen to increase their player base and hence their income.

The other reason that I can think of is that it does feel exactly as TryAgain suggests, and you too, to a degree Tzeal, that grown business men are playing silly buggers and the European players are stuck in the middle of their power/finance games to the point wherethe person responsible is not allowed to/will not even take the time and energy to fix the annoying pop up in an effort to score points.

We do not deserve that after paying totest this gamefor as long as we have. What we do deserve is somebody with the knowledge and authorityto answer one of the many fair and reasonable requests to fix this and explain honestly why it can not/willbe fixed. Better still, they could just get on and fix it - no explanation, just the actions required.

Whether GN answers support tickets is really neither here nor there with regards to this issue. It is an issue in its own right, and surely should have been allowed to have stayed that way.

I suppose I just feel that slamming GN totally at this stage is a bit of a joke, especially bearing in mind none of us players have all the information to hand. We can guess based upon our own experience or snippets from forums or IRC, but unless one of us has access to the same sort of information that Mr Bowman or Luca has, we can not fairly say who is to blame for my frustration when I hit that enlarge button too soon *winks*.

Let's not forget all the anger and frustration directed at poor Gale and how Luca was held up in attempts to "prove" that Gale did not or could not do his job. It was only rumour, of course, but I remember that he was supposed to have stated after he left the company that often he was gagged and had to also run everything that he wished to type on the forums through his line manager before typing it. So maybe he wasn't as bad as he was presented at the time and was purely working within the confines of his role and direction from above.

Maybe there is more to this than currently meets the eye too, and in time, the mystery of who couldn't be assed to fix or authorise the fixing of the pesky pop up will be common knowledge.

Currently, I think we can all only guess, and I do still maintain my earlierguess that I believe each is as bad as each other and makes it up as they go along to suit.

And.... I will repeat myself and mention again that I am getting the pesky pop up whilst accessing these forums on occassions.

Rainbow

[Tryagain]

Sorry Tryagain, could you elaborate on why Tulga is responsible for Game Network's inability to respond to support tickets ? Or why Tulgais responsible for the lack of feedback from Game Network regarding the many problems on Unity ? I certainly won't deny the possibility that we players are victims of some political struggle, however from what I have seen I am pretty sure that if Tulga could help the Unity playerbase, it would. I'm not saying Tulga is a blameless entity in all of this, I do however think it is unfair to blame Tulga for simple things like GN's inability to handle a support queue.

common logical sense and...

I have set one of those up before takes all of 5 minutes. No matter what game is going on and you just theorized real possibilities it is still a game and in the middle are the EU players. No matter what is going on between the two it takes NOTHING to reinstitute a new security cert. So either GN is lying about having renewed it or Tulga is willfully not looking after the security concerns of people playing a product they make. As well Tulga has not said word one and their silence convicts them and makes them just as guilty. Why ? because they know if they utter a peep people will corner them on the security cert and they do not want to answer questions about that.

No make no mistake GN has done a terrible job supporting the game. But a lot of the problems I bet good good money on have been screw ups on both sides. Now with the same change and new LLC Tulga is in a position not to honor any contracts made under Artifact Entertainment. However if their goal as to always acquiring the paying subscriptions from its EU playerbase I submit this is a really crappy way of doing it. Just about as bad as the way GN has let the service slip on what no doubt is a non profitable venture or at the very least very close to being a serious money loser for them.

No matter I place blame squarely on both of their shoulders. Someone has to step forward and do the right thing and lo and behold should the right thing ever be associated with Horizons.

So come on already someone say something. Your silence is convicting you further in the court of popular opinion and in this court thats all that matters.

[Tzael]

Therefore, from the above facts, we know that all that needs to happen is for CT to sign a piece of paper and fax it to GN. Why doesn't this happen? Well, we can't say exactly. But it is obvious that for some reason CT won't give GN access to the Istaria domain. Again, why? Almost certainly it is being used as a negotiation tactic. What other reason could their be? None that I can think of.

I think it is important that we do not forget that right now, Game Network are currently hosting their support service for all games they host, off of an Istaria.com sub domain.

Legend of Mir 2 : https://support.eu.istaria.com/default.cfm?site_id=401
Myth of Soma : http://support.eu.istaria.com/default.cfm?site_id=400

I daresay the fourth and latest game they are hosting will have support provided off the same sub-domain too once it is out of beta. I think it is reasonable to suggest that there might indeed be some disagreement over the use of the Istaria.com domain name for uses outside of any agreement between Tulga and Game Network. Then again I might be completely wrong and Game Network are paying Tulga for this usage outside of the Horizons game support.

[Tryagain]

Gopher where did you get that info ? Cause it should be the other way around pretty much. But if what you say is true then I don't know. All I know is I have seen nothing mentioned here. Was this relayed to you via IRC ??

Seems this all just got very complicated very fast. Still though someone either Tulga or GN has to come forward here and be straight. Not on IRC but here on these forums.

[Rainbow]

Heh, please take this light hearted bit of sarcasm with a pinch of salt....

*Is agog and filled withhorror that GN could possibly take something that belongs to TulgAE and to which they have no right, and, whilst remembering the shananigans of chapter 11 ponders the thought of, "what goes around comes around in business".*

Ok my sarcastic moment has passed.

Just as athought though, Mr Bowman has just made that nice statement for that review and according to you Gopher, because he said it, then all he said in that review must be true. Now not to be picky or anything, but, some folks here questioned some of the things that he stated with good reason.

With that sort of marketing heppening, is it not possible that Mr Tullomello is adding a little spin to his statement regarding the certificate to maintain TulgAE in a positive image with the player base?

He did make that one off statement at the time of taking AE over that GN's contract was with AE and not with Tulga. We are not privvy to the renegotiations of that contract, and it could be that the changes he wished to implement were to the detriment of GN's slice of the pie.It may not have affected their slice of the pie, but the bottom line is that we do not honestly know what he offered in his renegotiations, and will never know. Wre will never get to see the documentation and, if a settlement is ever reached, they will come to the boards praising each other andtelling us all the wonderful things they intend to do in the future. I doubt we will even know which one gave the most on the areas that they are struggling to agree on now.

I suppose I am saying that what folks say on IRC may not be exactly what is written in relevant documentation that they safely know their playerbase can not see for themselves. Wasn't that a good part of the argument over using IRC as the prime means for communication? It can be easy to dismiss if challenged or quoted?

Iwonder ifwe could have the chicken and the egg scenario here....... what came first, the pressure to change the contract and then the backing off of communication/support/etc by GN.... or was it GN backed off first and so it was felt the contract was needing renegotiation to reflect the lesser service GN appeared to wish to give.

All that aside, is itnot worth giving on this security certificate to help maintain the current European playerbase and to encourage potential new players? Or do we need to be kept as hostages inthis power/finance struggle for ever and a day. If that is the case, then I am not sure which is worse in my eyes, stealing from TulgAE or holding a group of people, paying for a service, albeit indirectly, to hostage until you get your own way.

I think I need to remember to wait those few seconds before hitting my enlarge button on my login screen for a good while yet, at least until the boys havemanaged to sort their squabbles out.

Rainbow

[Vlisson]

i dont care about who is guilty! or who is the reason for it!

i only want to see it fixed

its such a freaky think! if i wouldnt pay for this game i would roflmao

[bigswifty]

all a security cert is, is a way of linking a website to a company.

the cert process requires several things.

company info
contact numbers (verified by issuer)
website info
payment

end users when posed with the cert popup don't understand that the cert only provides accurate contact info (and theres no telling what can change over time) and a solid link to the physical machine designated as the domain's webserver.

ssl will and does work just fine certificate or not, all the cert is is proof that this is company x's machine.

installation takes all of 5 minutes once verification with the cert provider is completed and you have sent the proper cert request.
reboot the webserver and all is well.

theres little reason to not install unless information or paymentis not being provided to generate the cert (I dont even generate new requests, I just reuse the old ones unless something major changes, like moving to a new box or changing a domain name)

This one is really odd.

[Vlisson]

@Tulga please do anything about it!

or do you ignore this stuff?

[Growl]

/turn bitterness and sarcasm on

and more to the point, why hasn't this thread been consigned to the burial ground of the Unity sub-forum, like any thread that dares to mention the U word?

/turn bitterness and sarcasm off

Regards
Elspeth & Growl

[Vlisson]

i dont understand that we have this issue now for 1 year? since merge?

itsfantastic and unbelievable

[Daedra]

i dont understand that we have this issue now for 1 year? since merge?

itsfantastic and unbelievable

And yet we can still play...*shrug*

[Vlisson]

yes we can play but its very motivating for new players to see every log in:

hey the security is not up to date [C]