Blight Patch - 9/21/05

[Tympest]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]oluviel wrote:

Shame shame, whywas the scale of the ancients evenaddedif it would be destroyed by ancient status. MOREOVER, whyare the bonuses of aTRUE ancient less then the SCALE?



If you paid attention to your ARoP Lore, the scale of the ancientswas a gift to help you on your ARoP, as well as restrict access to the gate of embers.

Ya know, I went back and reread the relevant parts of the ARoP. It does not say that the scale is a gift, only that it is one of the keys needed to open the Gate of Embers.... and in fact it even sounds like you'll get to keep it.

Vladtmordt tells you, 'The Scale of Ancients may be a key to the Gate of Embers, but it is far more than just that, Tympest. Each scale is tailored to provide the bearer with unique powers and abilities beyond that of any other dragon scale. You will be given a choice between two different Scales; according to what you feel will aid you best in your battle for the living races.

So how are ancient dragons supposed to be able to return to the rift and help others without one of the keys?

[Tympest]

It does slightly more damage than Breath of Fire III to a group. Sadly, I can do more damage with Blast V or Barrage V.... though I do not think this is the new and improved version. Also, it can trigger the burning embers crystal and it does not replace any abilities.

[Fireclaw]

It does slightly more damage than Breath of Fire III to a group. Sadly, I can do more damage with Blast V or Barrage V.... though I do not think this is the new and improved version. Also, it can trigger the burning embers crystal and it does not replace any abilities.

Hahahahahhaa. That is sooooo NOT worth 500 hoard cost to use. I'll get more damage with blast or barrage, on a much shorter recycle, and for free. I'd hope this was a joke if I didn't realize that the devs just have no conception of how dragons play and what they expect. Its pretty clear the devs have no clue when in one interview a dev said that a dragon's breath attacks are their strongest attacks. Obviously that dev hasn't even looked at dragons much less played one. Take a look at this dragonbreath for instance. Against a single target, Gold rage will do 15x to 25x as much damage as this firebreath.. AND gold rage can be used once every 15 seconds compared to 3 minutes for this. Of course this dragonbreath is AOE, but lets see how many targets I would have to hit to equal the damage output of gold rage: To equal the damage output of gold rage (approx 1500 per gold rage over 3 minutes for a total 18,000 damage), I would have to hit exactly 150 targets with EACH cast of this breath attack. Obviously, this attack is a total joke.

Now Tulga did say they buffed up its damage. But I'm certain they didn't buff it up much. I think the best we can hope for is maybe 200 damage per cast. Still vastly inferior to gold rage or other dragon attacks.

All I can say is I sure hope this does NOT replace our current firebreath. The damage on this is barely better and it has 6 times the recycle.

[Larus-Fel]

*shrugs* i have confidence in Tulga and the team that things will be set better, it just takes more time and programming to figure things out.. and the whole biped/dragon you know nothing deal , its just on the last straw... who cares who plays what.. everyone is intitled to their opinion... and biped saying the stats are bad or good, is their own accord

[oluviel]

make the recyle 40 seconds, andremove the hoard cost that's something we can live with.

[Tantalyr]

I am not a Dragon, but I would like to suggest something added to the fire breath attack for ancient. Add a % chance to inflict immolate V or something. I think it is realistic to think that it would set enemies on fire and help to improve it. Just a thought.

Not saying that Ancients should be overpowered, but atleast one overpowered ability would be nice to see...even if it is put on a really long timer. (Unless there is one already)

As I understand it, this breath attack (like dragons' other breath attacks) has a chance to triggerLasting Embers, a crystal unique to dragons which has a 33% chance of inflicting a DoT very similar to Immolate on the target. So I think an additional chance of triggering another Immolate-type effect would be redundant.

[Vahrokh]

I am clearly disappointed at the outcome of 2 years of waiting.

Small size increase, laughable stats increase (why I keep getting that "ancients will be the most powerful being in Istaria, able to solo every monster") and loss of the one well done dragon item ever created.

I suppose AE will never learn what's the meaning of the word "reward" for a players, expecially after years of waiting.

Well I suppose I'll return playing WoW. Somehow Blizzard managed to gather 4,500,000 players because of their quest and rewards system.

I am so sad I want to cry. I am mad too, they ruined my dreams. Forget my money then.

[IndyMan]

A reward should be a reward, not a tip. [:S]

[Theolaerynn]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Durand wrote:I am not a Dragon, but I would like to suggest something added to the fire breath attack for ancient. Add a % chance to inflict immolate V or something. I think it is realistic to think that it would set enemies on fire and help to improve it. Just a thought.

Not saying that Ancients should be overpowered, but atleast one overpowered ability would be nice to see...even if it is put on a really long timer. (Unless there is one already)

As I understand it, this breath attack (like dragons' other breath attacks) has a chance to triggerLasting Embers, a crystal unique to dragons which has a 33% chance of inflicting a DoT very similar to Immolate on the target. So I think an additional chance of triggering another Immolate-type effect would be redundant.

This is correct. All I really am concerned about is the hoard cost. We used to have this for free, on a 5 minute timer.

[Guaran]

Manga said the Breath of Flame burst, which is seperate from Breath of Fire III, is going to have the damage adjusted.

Currently on blight it does same damage for me as Breath of Fire III

best thing to do is Login to blight and try things out, then make suggestions. They have already listened on more than one ocassion.

The rewards for ancient aren't quite done on blight. No new weapon crystal just yet. Let's get our suggestions in now while everything is still in a testing phase.

[Guaran]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Amon Gwareth wrote:

Changes/Fixes: [*]Correction from Last Patch:[*]Beginner, Journeyman, and Expert Anvils will now provide a bonus to Scalecrafting.[/list][/list]

Scalecrafting bonuses at biped built blocks of metal that are not scalecraft machines . . . .Score another -1 for dragon lore, but dragon bandaid +1.

They are adding the bonus to player crafted anvils. This is as it should be. As soon as lairs are in, there will finally be player crafted Scaleforges that grant the bonus as well. Likely this change is in preparation for that.

[imported_Ssilmath]

The ridiculousness of these posts brings back memories of the whiny dragons again, only this time the whining seems unfounded...

First of all, it's not live, it's still on Blight, and it appears that player feedback has already changed the rewards a bit...

Second, an adult dragon is powerful now...Hell, a level 80 has more HP, mostly better stats, armor and can solo mobs better than I can as a rating 85 druid...And keep in mind XP, I've put 3 classes worth of XP in, the dragon has put in one...

Third, getting another stat increase on that isn't a nerf...The only posible nerf I see is taking away that head scale, and I am hoping that player feedback at least changes the new stat gains to be equivilant...

Finally, you are getting a large quest, items, stat increases, lore, and (from what I hear) a lot of cool aspects that a biped will never see...Some would think that reward enough, but instead you are demanding to come out of it as gods, too...

<Sighs> Go ahead and whine and cry, I know Tulga is going to have to concede to the wailing and gnashing of teeth. And when you are a god, and able to solo SoG, and multiclassed, and have your hoard at max, you can start whining again...

"That uberped can solo SoG plus one Kwellen, why can't I do that?"
"It takes too much hoard to solo a tavertine golem, make GR and SS use less hoard"
"I want more <Insert stat or item here>, if I don't I'll quit!"

Pathetic...Try and be grateful for what you have for once, and realize that already feedback from people about this thing ON A TEST SERVER has changed it. Be happy...you are becoming more powerful, just like you demand <Hands them Istaria on a platinum platter>

[Guaran]

The ridiculousness of these posts brings back memories of the whiny dragons again, only this time the whining seems unfounded...

I wouldn't say it is unfounded.

First of all, it's not live, it's still on Blight, and it appears that player feedback has already changed the rewards a bit...

That's precisely why we have to give the feedback now. While it is on blight.

Second, an adult dragon is powerful now...Hell, a level 80 has more HP, mostly better stats, armor and can solo mobs better than I can as a rating 85 druid...And keep in mind XP, I've put 3 classes worth of XP in, the dragon has put in one...

Third, getting another stat increase on that isn't a nerf...The only posible nerf I see is taking away that head scale, and I am hoping that player feedback at least changes the new stat gains to be equivilant...

Finally, you are getting a large quest, items, stat increases, lore, and (from what I hear) a lot of cool aspects that a biped will never see...Some would think that reward enough, but instead you are demanding to come out of it as gods, too...

Dragons != Bipeds

<Sighs> Go ahead and whine and cry, I know Tulga is going to have to concede to the wailing and gnashing of teeth. And when you are a god, and able to solo SoG, and multiclassed, and have your hoard at max, you can start whining again...

"That uberped can solo SoG plus one Kwellen, why can't I do that?"
"It takes too much hoard to solo a tavertine golem, make GR and SS use less hoard"
"I want more <Insert stat or item here>, if I don't I'll quit!"

Some may voice feedback with an emotional tinge. Hey guess what they are human beings, it comes in the package. No one claims to be perfect here. I see passionate,upset,concerned, angry.

Tulga would be wise to answer these concerns in some fashion.

Pathetic...Try and be grateful for what you have for once, and realize that already feedback from people about this thing ON A TEST SERVER has changed it. Be happy...you are becoming more powerful, just like you demand <Hands them Istaria on a platinum platter>

This feedback in this and a few other threads is exactly what has sparked a few changes already. If you had played a dragon from the beginning like I have, you know that there was no silver platter getting where we FINALLY are today.

Dragons are the best single class in the game.Years of feedback are what it took to get there. Correcting a horrible vision for one of the bigger draws the game had. We SHOULDN'T HAVE to make endless posts commenting on how idiotic many things were in the past. It's taken all this time to undo the initial damage.

ONLY when hoard finally started dropping decently, has the Dragon class became powerful. Prior to that it was insulting.

Dragons, keep the feedback,suggestions, etc coming.


I will keep posting my suggestions. When it happens to be an angry tirade, be thankful people even bother getting upset. When that stops happening, you will have your own worries about Istaria's future.

[Tantalyr]

Though I, too, am rather surprised that the Blight version of Ancienthood isn't something more awe inspiring, let's break this down a bit . . . .

1) Size: As it is adult dragons are so huge (at least from a biped's perspective) that it often becomes impossible to see around them, especially during combat. For example, Tantalyr is a dwarf, and in combat with an adult dragon he can barely see around the dragon's huge arse. Throw another adult dragon or two into the combat group and it becomes ******** near impossible for Tant to see anything but dragon meat filling my entire screen. And my adult dragon, Grymme, has difficulty seeing not only smaller adversaries (undead dryads are a MAJOR problem trying to target), but resource nodes as well, so much so that I usually have him mine or quarry in Khutit form. So increasing the size of Ancient dragons to anything noticeably larger than the current adult model would only increase those viewing problems. I certainly understand and agree that SOME visible distinction should be made between adults and Ancients--one that could be instantly seen by other players, but perhaps that can be done in ways other than increasing size (or the current increased neck length). Perhaps Ancient scales could glow, or their heads gain some sort of gorgeous crest/set of horns, etc.

2) Unfinished business: Keep in mind that this is all on Blight, the test server, so the devs are still playing around with Ancients' looks and abilities. Indeed, per a post by oluviel just yesterday afternoon, a 250 hitpoint increase apparently has now been added. So I certainly wouldn't conclude that the devs are completely finished with Ancient modeling, and that these Ascension rewards and models are set in stone.

3) Current Rewards: Consider, first, the armor increase of 133%. That means an automatic one-third increase in your overall armor upon Ascension. With mithril-marble armor scales, that equates to an automatic increase of over seven hundred to your armor rating. That's like suddenly getting an extra six or seven armor scales. I don't think that's anything to sneeze at.

While the increase in Focus is disappointingly small, the increase in Power is the equivalent of an extra 9 adventuring levels, and the Strength increase equals an additional 6 adventuring levels. And the capacity increase is the equivalent of Dimensional Pocket XII. Not bad methinks.

On the other hand, I personally think that the other Ancient additional abilities are pretty much worthless. For example, with both wing scales teched with Velocity V, Grymme already "cruises" at 99. Why on earth would I ever want to "sprint" beyond that speed while flying? It's not like any beastie can attack me while I'm flying anyway.

Putting an exhorbitant hoard cost on the new breath attack is just foolish. No other breath attack requires hoard consumption, so why should this one? And for the same reason (hoard cost) I doubt that Grymme will be rezzing very many folks.

4) PvE Balance: We do have to admit, folks, that adult dragons are pretty damned powerful as it is, so we've got to wonder how much more powerful they should be. As an example, at just level 78 with a teched-out set of mithril-marble scales Grymme regularly takes on beasties 15 to 20 levels higher with little problem. I've seen level 100 dragons literally do upwards of 2400 damage with one Gold Rage assault. These dragons are already pretty damned close to "one-hit-wonders" against Tier V beasties. So you have to ask yourself: would it really be a good thing if Ancients could slaughter 95% of all the beasties in the game--Tier VI included--in under 10 seconds?

Just some thoughts.

[Vahrokh]

Don't be such a crybabyStick out tongue, and learn to play your character

Go tell it to someone else. I soloed everything and easily in this game but SoG, this game is so easy to play compared to every other game around that an average skilled player can kill everything blind and with tied hands.

The matter here is not "becoming uber". It's to get a visible difference "as reward" compared to the previous state.
Already an adult is an hatchling with 2 more skills in cross and flight. An ancient is going to be an hatchling with more fat and more stats.

It sure pleases you, not those who are sticking here since 2 years without any true "advancement" nor level up.

And no, removing a free skill from adults (free but we had to earn it) and reintroducing it with an associated cost for ancients is not the kind of "advancement" I eagerly awaited for.

It's really easy money math: after achieving everything a dragon would ever want I am bored with this game since January and want desperately to find some reason to continue paying.

Actually I am more pissed with size being nerfed than anything else, I love to shoot movies of me flying around dwarfing stuff and that was a good chance to shoot more movies.

The ridiculousness of these posts brings back memories of the whiny dragons again, only this time the whining seems unfounded..

Hell yeah it's all whiny dragons that stick playing this game since release awaiting for the ancient RoP to finally be complete.
The first "objective", RoP has already been a sort of delusion. You become 3 - 4 times bigger and all and then discover you are an hatchling with added fat.
And now again.

Of course you call "unfounded" the fact that a regular dragon + head scale is stronger than an ancient so it all fills in nicely.

But who cares after all, dragons are probably just half the player base left.

Try and be grateful for what you have for once,

No I won't until they fix the crap like the hastened swing loss.

A fix that will not happen at all without anyone saying anything.

Be happy...you are becoming more powerful, just like you demand

I'll be happy when I'll see visible improvement after I finished the quest that is supposed to do so.
Not a second earlier. Like you see a visible improvement when you go from rating 120 to 180.

An ancient dragon should be to a regular dragon what a slightly multiclassed character is to an heavy multiclassed character.
I killed enough stuff that I should be rating 200 by now. I had a ratio of 13 hours played a day for 1.5 years, guess how much exp past 100 I have?

A power house? Sure, like you have been in the possibility to become, regardless if you chose to become one or not.

Why no one has anything to say to a rating 180 but a years old dragon has to be equivalent of a rating 120 forever?


Sorry, after seeing other professionally crafted games I raised my expectations.
It's time that AE earns a place in the market and they need to act the proper way to please their customers.
Starting with fulfilling what they led to believe and delayed for months.

[AA0]

Vahrokh,
We know what you want, and how you want it. But you are ignoring a massive issue... Dragons have whined for a year to be almost as powerful now as some of best biped multiclasses, giving an ancient even more power is just screwing the game over more. You can't be all powerful because there is still the majority of players that are biped in this game. There has to be a balance, you want to click ancient (which isn't going to be so hard that everyone won't be one), and just be so powerful its sickening.

All the dragons need to be less selfish as to what they want and think a little more about the game, and how a proper balance can be achieved now and in the future. You will gain more powers later on, we have been told that.

A please stop bringing up the pathetic excuse of having to wait so long, many biped classes are in such worse shape than dragons it isn't funny.

[Deth]

I think why people are having a problem with the size reduction is that as dragons once we choose our colors thats it. How you you like once 102-120 comes out they said, "OK your epic now and as reward all your neat new dyes get taken away. and here is this one generic skin that is a new color that only 101-120 Bipeds have. So your different from the non-epic Toons but not a whole lot different." I know that is not the greatest of comparisons. But it the best I can come up with. Dragons what a way to show off our power just like Bipeds. Instead of neat new demon weapons and cool colored Armour we had size. It makes a lot of us mad that now we look just like just about every other adult but for the swan neck that is easy to miss! I have played a dragon 2 years and I sat staring at 2 Ancients for 10 min before I figured out both and not just one was Ancient! Thats just wrong.

[Nikodemus]

Please everybody NOTICE that Breath of Flame Burst READS

Breath of Flame Burst I

Which means that this will most likely be another line of spells getting stronger with each version they put in.

Thank-you for your attention. You may now continue to whine and complain.

[Fireclaw]

3) Current Rewards: Consider, first, the armor increase of 133%. That means an automatic one-third increase in your overall armor upon Ascension. With mithril-marble armor scales, that equates to an automatic increase of over seven hundred to your armor rating. That's like suddenly getting an extra six or seven armor scales. I don't think that's anything to sneeze at.

Actually the armor increase is zero. We gain 133% innate armor bonus from becoming ancient but we lose the 133% armor bonus from the headscale. Assuming we equip a T5 armor headscale in place of the ancient headscale we lose, our armor for ascending to ancient doesn't change at all. So no... we don't gain 700 to our armor. In fact we gain nothing to our armor.

[Tantalyr]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Tantalyr wrote:

3) Current Rewards: Consider, first, the armor increase of 133%. That means an automatic one-third increase in your overall armor upon Ascension. With mithril-marble armor scales, that equates to an automatic increase of over seven hundred to your armor rating. That's like suddenly getting an extra six or seven armor scales. I don't think that's anything to sneeze at.


Actually the armor increase is zero. We gain 133% innate armor bonus from becoming ancient but we lose the 133% armor bonus from the headscale. Assuming we equip a T5 armor headscale in place of the ancient headscale we lose, our armor for ascending to ancient doesn't change at all. So no... we don't gain 700 to our armor. In fact we gain nothing to our armor.

The point, Fireclaw, is that Ancient dragons get this HUGE boost to armor WITHOUT having to don any scale to do it, thus opening up that headscale slot to even MORE armor scales for even more armor.

With mithril-marble armor scales in every slot, this should equate to around 2700-2800 armor. By contrast, in full triple-teched mithril plate (every piece that can take it teched with Armor V) my dwarf Tantalyr has an armor rating of a hair over 2,000. Adding another 700 to 800 armor on top of that would make him darn near invulnerable.