Common Sense and Common Decency

[Vandellia]

To all truly interested people who love this game, and wantit to get better, i am going to ask you all to do something,I have seen theCommunity pageslowly devolve intowhat i can only describe as an extremist position posting place, I guess expecting people that are supposed to be adults to behave like one is unreasonable?
I willstate this clearly I know how understaffed tulga games is currently I know how much effort they are expending on improving the game I know how far behind the fix curve they are, and I know howunhapy many of the players are because of this but the reality is, if you were in their position would you like to read hundreds of threads on howbadly you are doing your job? I know i wouldnt and nor would you. I am not saying that thingsare rosy in game nor am i saying that things are wonderful, what i am asking is that lets try and rethink how we are posting lets try a different attitued lets point out issues and offer solutions not just bash, lets work to improve the game not attack,lets do something constructive rather then destructive, The developers and Employees atTulga areonlyhuman they needpraise for their positive changes and the fixes as muchif not more then beingbeatenup, I am not saying that negitive feedback isnt good or needed imsimply stating that their are right ways and wrong ways of doing things, their are polite ways and impoilite ways , their are nice ways and ugly ways, I totally understand frustration, I should know moreso the others, however People pleaseadjust your attitued a bit you will get a lot more from treating people decently then you will by bashing them.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

Good post

[AA0]

I think you're right. There are problems and we know of certain things they are trying to fix, or have planned to fix. People bash them constantly on the same issues over and over, and for what reason? They are already addressing a lot of problems.

I'm sure the devs want to see a rational and well thought out statement rather then the mindless crap we have been getting lately. If you really want to help the game, think things through, report bugs when you see them so they can be fixed.

Let the people at TG have a break, they work hard for a bunch of people that really abuse them. They need to know they are doing a good job, and working as hard as they can, harder then they get paid to.

[Tryagain]

heh ya sure....

The little people at Tulga I do feel bad for. The game could have used an Amon or Manga pre chapter 11 or at least the management policy that allowed them to be as they are now. Regardless they have to deal with the bed as it is made now. MMO's are hot topic and people can get passionate about their game. Especially when the amazing amount of patience that players have had to have in regards to horizons is perhaps way more than any MMO period ever.

Remember a year ago people were as this... but unfortunately patience eventually runs out. So what instead you would like them to just quit instead of cluttering the boards with posts YOU see as negative and demoralizing ? Fine thats a fair enough thing to say but know if they did this Horizons would be shut down not 24 hours later.

So we are way past ying and yang and a balance. Tulga must now deal with the bed they themselves made if you aren't willing to place the responsibility on someone in specifically shoulders.

But yeah the little people at Tulga.... then again the MMO world is a place where a developer MUST have a thick hide. This is no place for people with weak constitutions. Sounds harsh ? yeah but its true just ask any other MMO dev.

[mbaucco]

Good post! As someone who does not get to log on very frequently, I am always impressed with how much work TG is doing. I think people who play a lot may not always see the sheer volume of what is being changed over such a (relatively) short time.

I know a lot of folks are upset about the dragon changes right now, but TG seems to be one of those rare companies that listens to their players. However, if people aren't polite and reasonable that won't last. I have tried zillions of MMoRPGs and believe me, TG is one of the good guys comapred to companies like Mythic or Blizzard.

-Matt

[Peaches]

Very very very good post.

[Aamer Khan]

I could not agree with you more Vandy.

Reality is a hard thing for many to wrap their minds around. The reality is that it's just a game. And as such, it is an opt in, pay as you go, totally your choice kind of thing. Player ego's have nothing to do with it, nor does the amount of money we pay. Its a game we choose to play or not. But sadly, some can't see that.

Most of the ones doing as you describe, no longer play. The ones that DO still play usually have too much to do, to bother posting on the boards. I personally have opted to ignore posts from any poster that doesn't understand the realities of a game being developed by a very small group of dedicated developers. It is very hard it is to do what TG has, and continues to do.

I'll be honest and say very openly that I don't care who is responsible for any of the problems that Horizons has had, just like I don't care who is responsible at the cable co. for putting shows on that I don't like. I have always had full control over what I experience. If there is something I don't like, I can opt OUT and move on. So far, ( and this is after being here almost 2 years ) there is not enough things to dislike to make me move on. I still play everyday. And I appreciate what TG and everyone there does, to keep this game moving forwards.

The hardest part atm, is that progress is slow. And for those of us still here after a long time, we have given in to being tired. Things will change when they change. Overt complaining will NOT change anything. And it sure won't get your cause listened to.

Let us ALL ( including me ) take a chill pill, relax and just have fun.

[IndyMan]

Thanfully we can still post our dissatisfaction with things, in a constructive manner, when we choose to.

Your backhanded attack on those who " are supposed to be adults" did not slip by.
Seems then that I can say that those who are childlike and feel that saying anything negative is wrong, should possibly grow up. (or can i say things like that ? )

[C`gan]

Agreed. I've heard some of the horror stories about larger companies out there. Been through a couple of them. The fact that Tulga is a small company gives it a heavier responsibility than an EA or Sony in customer service. When Westwood had control over Earth and Beyond, things were moving along. When EA bought out Westwood, things were quenstionable, then EnB was pulled. Sony has had huge problems with SWG back and forth so that some of my guildmates are refusing to go back because instead of fixing problems or listening to the customer base, they simply add more content. Such is not the case with Horizons. How many people in the SWG base got to sit down and have developer chats with Sony on any of the class redos? Order and Chaos shards both have now had them for confectioner and the chat logs are posted. Did Sony have any devs question some of the players as to what should or should not be added? David Bowman has put out several requests in the Suggestions forum for placement of sand, wells, teleporters and pads, where teleporters should go and these were followed up with, SURPRISE! new sand pits, new wells, new teleporters and pads, and additions to current teleporters. One of the current discussions is libraries and how they need to be this or that. Realize, this was a player-suggested structure during a dev chat and David himself looked into it right then and there during the chat. Tweaking it and making it more useful may be quite an exercise in programming, but once all lairs are ready to go and some of the other hot ticket items on their end are done, libraries may likely get revisited and revamped. And just how many MMORPGs have offered a player-base quest editor so players can submit new quests? Last I'd heard, the devs were having fun with it and verifying the coding process worked before sending to the public. All this and substantial patches to fix lag problems (yes, we still have lag, but not like it was where 4 ports and you were completely dead in the water. Now, give yourself a minute or so and the framerates come back).

So, please give credit where credit is due and please allow for constructive criticism. I don't know what programming language the devs do use, so I personally can't code for them, but I look forward to the time when the quest editor comes out so we all can be helping them code new quests.

[Peaches]

But see, there is nothing wrong with negative posts. There is something wrong with bashing, insulting, general beating up of posters and dev teams, that is far from constructive.


We all have a beef, or may have, or may not have, its all in how you present the issues at hand.

Plain and simple. Maybe not?

[Velat]

Very good post, I tottally agree with you Vandellia. I truly love this game, and I know that if I wait long enough, good things will happen and all the pieces will fall into place.



[li]

[imported_tjl]

But see, there is nothing wrong with negative posts. There is something wrong with bashing, insulting, general beating up of posters and dev teams, that is far from constructive.


We all have a beef, or may have, or may not have, its all in how you present the issues at hand.

Plain and simple. Maybe not?

well usually the issues are presented in a very constructive manner. but fast forward a year, and the issue is still not addressed... then I can see why some might loose their constructive attitudes.

[Daedra]

Good post

I'll second that.

[Kulamata]

I agree, good post. And I'm getting awfully tired of those who defend an abrasive, hostile style as negative content. Hostile style bad, content of any sort, good.

[Justa Mirage]

Good post,and those who know me, know what I put up with. There is only so many ways you can post negative critisism without crossing into the game bashing mode and letting the readers have it with the double barrel shotgun to the face. Being a moderator does make you weigh what is game bashing and what is simply stating what needs to change for the game's success without putting it down.

There are ways of expressing your dissatisfaction with the game, company, or players, without lashing out with scathing comments that will end up getting your post nuked, modded / edited, and the poster banned / removed.

I love posts like this, and constructive ones like "where can I find Tremendous Ruxus?" posts.... it just tells me that there are people who look beyond the problems the game has and plays it anyways because it has a fun-factor that has tapped into that person playing.

[Crazyfingers]

http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=93307

Strange, did something change since these post Vandellia?

Sounds like someone threw a fit and got their way, now gonna be all nice and fuzzy.

[Y]


NimKhazad

[Susan]

Good Post! [Y]

[Nalrach]

I have nothing to say against what is been discussed above. To be the devil advocate I can understand why people are getting frustrated with not getting their worries acknowledged (not even talking fixed/answer here, just acknowledge). The issue I see is if people don't read every single post and pass hours on mirc or communauty channel, they don't see all the discussions or projects talk going on. So for the player that plays 2-3 hour every second days, he has no clue and when he express himself as badly as it can be, seeing his post not addressed or been bashed by other it can be difficult to see your point and remain adult as he may have the same idea posted on the link submitted.

I think at chapter 11 we got so spoiled seeing all the devs looking at post and reassuring us, that with their busy schedule now these days the answer are fewer and far beetween, unless you have secured their acknowledgement. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the players that have manage to pull trough and get the dev attention and they are often our watchdog to keep the devs inline [;)], but maybe we need something to have status on issues known been displayed.

I for one cant wait for the "design preview page to be updated", I love to see what the devs are working on to get the game improved. I think that was a superb idea when they posted that the first time, saved a lot of winning of what are you doing post.

Any way as I often say .. GO Dev GO !!! [Y]

[Seikojin]

:o
Everyone has had a time where they spit demands and lamentations in the directions of the developers beause they feel the game has issues.

It 's just how its worded that makes it an insult or constructive critisism.

As I saw it, I paid to play for a while, made some suggestions, saw that the development was not to my liking; quit paying (not so muchthey werent making my ideas come to life, but some very basic things aren't right in the game yet).

Fortunatly for me I don't have to keep paying to keep my progress; unlike UO. Plus unlike UO; I don't get anything as my account ages. So there is nothing to gain from paying and not playing (like I did for about 6 months).

I am waiting patiently for the day when I see some magical progress; till then I stay on the sidelines.

[Tokoz]

http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=93307

Strange, did something change since these post Vandellia?

Sounds like someone threw a fit and got their way, now gonna be all nice and fuzzy.
NimKhazad

Some of us, after getting slapped on the hand a few times for our uncivil posts have endeavored to make a change for the better. Being called things like "fanboi" and part of the "IRC buddy club." made me take a serious look at what I was doing to deserve that, and I found that there was room for improvement on my end.