Dryad RoP

[Tarran of Chaos]

Birds have feathered wings and everything about their lightweight structureis made for flight and speed. A birds feathers are hollow and contain as much air as matter. A bird has a light beak, not a heavy jawbone. A bird has a fan tail that acts as a rudder and brake. I could go on and on and so could anyone else but to what point? Yes birds can travel at faster fps than flies.

The mistake in your point is comparing your dragon to the bird and the dryad to the fly. The drad is actually MUCH more like the bird than you are, both having two legs and being devoid of your heavy frame. You are more like the fly. And yes, inadvertently as it is you have thus reinforced my point. Im afraid it as at my own expense though, for indulging you in arguing the most stupid of topics. Next time provide something with more base.

[Nisse]

Erhm, I don't think that was in reference to frames etc, as, last I checked, this is a fantasy game.
If anything, though, I think it was in reference to the fact that birds and insects fly in completely different ways.

[Goriax]

Yet another thread plunges into inane arguments. Oh well, I guess I'll get dirty too for one post.

It is the HZ lore that dragons fly with the aid of magic. It's their game, it's their lore. If you don't like the lore you're welcome to make your own game with it's own lore. If you ran your own D&D campaign (with it's allowance for variants ad the DM's discretion assuming they still allow for that)you would be able to set up any lore you wanted -- you could have everything flying, nothing flying, or anything else you liked because it would be your game. But as long asyou're inTG's worldyou're subject toTG's lore. And their lore has dragons flying with the aid of magic. End of story.

If you did strictly RL aeronautics, neither dragons NOR dryads would ever get off the ground unless they were hollow and filled with helium or something.Their wings aren't nearly big enough, they're not positioned properly, and they don't flap properly. And I don't care.

But in a fantasy game (or even most sci-fi games), you cannot look too hard at that kind of thing. You have to take the game on it's own terms which means dragons fly with the aid of magic. This will probably be the lore for dryads too.

They call this stuff fantasy for a reason.

Back long long ago in the pre-blackout days, (which don't necessarily apply but it's the closest HZ lore I know even remotely relevant to this topic) dragons would be by far the best fliers in Istaria. Dryads would be able to fly to treetop height, but they qualified that with the comment that in some places trees can be several hundred feet high.

The devs can do anything they want, including leaving dryads exactly as they are or making them as strong fliers as dragons or anything in-between. If I were trying to convince the devs to give dryads true flight, I'd concentrate on game play issues and not hokey aerodynamic arguments which ignore the existing lore (not to mention being fatally flawed, but that's irrelevant since this is fantasy).

I'd also work real hard at giving a well thought out reasoned argument in a polite way, but that's just me.

[Fireclaw]

Birds have feathered wings and everything about their lightweight structureis made for flight and speed. A birds feathers are hollow and contain as much air as matter. A bird has a light beak, not a heavy jawbone. A bird has a fan tail that acts as a rudder and brake. I could go on and on and so could anyone else but to what point? Yes birds can travel at faster fps than flies.

The mistake in your point is comparing your dragon to the bird and the dryad to the fly. The drad is actually MUCH more like the bird than you are, both having two legs and being devoid of your heavy frame. You are more like the fly. And yes, inadvertently as it is you have thus reinforced my point. Im afraid it as at my own expense though, for indulging you in arguing the most stupid of topics. Next time provide something with more base.

Tip: I suggest using the default color text. For those using the alternate forum theme your text appears black on black and is unreadable unless hi-lighted.

On to your point... its not quite as simple as you make it. You are forgetting that issues of physical musculature and structure are all different for something very small compared to something very large. A mosquito can fly just fine on its little wings, and it can maintain perfect flight (hovering). Go up in size to a large bird and you'll see that birds (except for hummingbirds) lack true flight and cannot hover or maneuver like an insect, but rely more on gliding.

Blow that mosquito up to the size of a house and it wouldn't even be able to lift off. If Horizons was meant to be realistic, dragons would not be able to fly at all. They are too big, their wings are too small. Muscles that are efficient in moving a tiny wing are ineffcient when trying to move a huge wing. flight would be impossible unless all the musculature and tissue inside the dragon was composed of alien cells and tissue that was vastly lighter and more efficient than the stuff found on earth. Thus the game creators at Artifact Entertainment added into the Horizons lore that magic provides the lift for flying dragons. This is the official lore of the game and has never been changed.

The game isn't completely realistic and won't ever be. Ever tried dropping from the top of a tower? How come there wasn't a red pancake when you hit the bottom? A good part of making an MMO is to make it fun and balanced. Should dryads get dragonflight? Well, it would certainly be fun for the dryads... but the answer is no, because it wouldn't be balanced, as it would make the gameworld a less rich and interesting place and remove some of the uniqueness of the most unique race in Istaria.

You want the primary strength of being a dragon without any of the corresponding weaknesses. The proposed buff to other biped classes (warhorses) is not nearly as good as true dragonflight. You aren't suggesting giving dryads any weaknesses for being given this massive buff. That alone should raise a red flag from a balance perspective.

[Nayuaka]

Gah. What is with this all Dragons have to be unique in the flight aspect. That's very selfsih I think. Ever seen butterflies..they can fly pretty high and dryads are somewhat like that. Dryad flight would not encroach apon the stupidly high flight cap for dragons. I say give dryad a flight of like 50 and let them actually enjoy their wings.

[Fireclaw]

Gah. What is with this all Dragons have to be unique in the flight aspect. That's very selfsih I think. Ever seen butterflies..they can fly pretty high and dryads are somewhat like that. Dryad flight would not encroach apon the stupidly high flight cap for dragons. I say give dryad a flight of like 50 and let them actually enjoy their wings.

I never said dryads shouldn't have flight. In my first post in this thread I have a pretty detailed proposal for how dryad flight could work. In one respect it would be significantly better than dragonflight because the dryad would always be able to take off instantly, while a dragon needs 2 seconds for the takeoff animation to cycle and if it gets interrupted by being hit it often can't takeoff because being hit resets the recycle animation.

What I do strongly disagree with is Tarran's proposition that dryads should get flight identical to dragonflight in all respects.

[Nayuaka]

Yeah but your proposale for Dryad flight was rather limeted. Heh they should have unlimeted flight to a certain distance...that doesn't effect dragons much at all. The dragon taking off animation has never affected me in any bad way and is not a way to say that dryad should get less just because we have it.

[Fireclaw]

Yeah but your proposale for Dryad flight was rather limeted. Heh they should have unlimeted flight to a certain distance...that doesn't effect dragons much at all. The dragon taking off animation has never affected me in any bad way and is not a way to say that dryad should get less just because we have it.

The problem with your proposed flight ceiling of 50 is that essentially gives dryads 95% of the benefit of full dragonflight. With 50 flight ceiling above the terrain mesh directly below you you can fly over all terrain features in the game except possibly deep water. You can fly out of range of all monsters. When going from one destination to another you can fly in a straight line avoiding all terrain. As a dragon, most the time when I fly I stay below 50 m. You can see the terrain much better and the sensation of flight is better. There's really very little need to go above that.

Its a balance issue. You want virtually all the benefits of dragonflight without any of the penalties of being a dragon. Nor do you consider how this massive buff to dryads would be unfair to all other biped classes. In my proposal I purposely designed flight that I think should give a sense of flying, be fun, and yet not be too unbalancing.

[Tarran of Chaos]

I dunno who you think youre kidding about flying being the primary strength of being a dragon. I have posted enough about dragon strengths to not have to reply to that. And you only have one weakness which is the heal over time and your grossly overcompensated for it for with huge abilities.
Secondly, yeah, the only reason drags can fly is cuz of hydrogen storage. You are not a bird. You are a flyingreptile the same as a crocodile. Comparing yourself to dryads or birds is ghey.
Thirdly, I will never play a dryad so I am posting here pro bono on their behalf. They should be just as efficient flyers as dragons. They should fly just as high, and just as fast. If anything they should be faster because the smaller the species the more rapid the heartbeat, breathing, and energy is produced. As well as something that spends its entire life in the air is going to have much stronger flight muscles than a drag.
Bottom line is dragons feel like the should be best at everything including flight. Its barely worth tolerating to play the game. Dryads should have every bit as much flight potential.

[Tarran of Chaos]

It is the HZ lore that dragons fly with the aid of magic. It's their game, it's their lore. If you don't like the lore you're welcome to make your own game with it's own lore. If you ran your own D&D campaign (with it's allowance for variants ad the DM's discretion assuming they still allow for that)you would be able to set up any lore you wanted -- you could have everything flying, nothing flying, or anything else you liked because it would be your game. But as long asyou're inTG's worldyou're subject toTG's lore. And their lore has dragons flying with the aid of magic. End of story.

I would say it was Artifacts Lore. Tulga obviously doesnt have to keep it but can keep or discard it at their choice.

If you did strictly RL aeronautics, neither dragons NOR dryads would ever get off the ground unless they were hollow and filled with helium or something.Their wings aren't nearly big enough, they're not positioned properly, and they don't flap properly. And I don't care.

You obviously need to go back and read my post over and itsnot helium, its hydrogen, and I think we already covered the flight dynamics. Go sit in the corner.

[Dragoniade]

I dunno who you think youre kidding about flying being the primary strength of being a dragon. I have posted enough about dragon strengths to not have to reply to that. And you only have one weakness which is the heal over time and your grossly overcompensated for it for with huge abilities.
Secondly, yeah, the only reason drags can fly is cuz of hydrogen storage. You are not a bird. You are a flyingreptile the same as a crocodile. Comparing yourself to dryads or birds is ghey.
Thirdly, I will never play a dryad so I am posting here pro bono on their behalf. They should be just as efficient flyers as dragons. They should fly just as high, and just as fast. If anything they should be faster because the smaller the species the more rapid the heartbeat, breathing, and energy is produced. As well as something that spends its entire life in the air is going to have much stronger flight muscles than a drag.
Bottom line is dragons feel like the should be best at everything including flight. Its barely worth tolerating to play the game. Dryads should have every bit as much flight potential.

The hydrogen blimp is one of stupidest idea about dragon flight I've ever heard.

Dryad will have the right to fly when they'll have to consume ressource to use abilities (mana for example)

[Tarran of Chaos]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Tarran of Chaos wrote: I dunno who you think youre kidding about flying being the primary strength of being a dragon. I have posted enough about dragon strengths to not have to reply to that. And you only have one weakness which is the heal over time and your grossly overcompensated for it for with huge abilities.
Secondly, yeah, the only reason drags can fly is cuz of hydrogen storage. You are not a bird. You are a flyingreptile the same as a crocodile. Comparing yourself to dryads or birds is ghey.
Thirdly, I will never play a dryad so I am posting here pro bono on their behalf. They should be just as efficient flyers as dragons. They should fly just as high, and just as fast. If anything they should be faster because the smaller the species the more rapid the heartbeat, breathing, and energy is produced. As well as something that spends its entire life in the air is going to have much stronger flight muscles than a drag.
Bottom line is dragons feel like the should be best at everything including flight. Its barely worth tolerating to play the game. Dryads should have every bit as much flight potential.

The hydrogen blimp is one of stupidest idea about dragon flight I've ever heard.

Dryad will have the right to fly when they'll have to consume ressource to use abilities (mana for example)

LOL. Well who am I to tell a *cough dragon cough* about the scientific theory of dragon flight, eh? Perhaps you should go check it out for yourself. I recommend you go to your local libraryandcheck out'Dragons World'.

[Dragoniade]

LOL. Well who am I to tell a *cough dragon cough* about the scientific theory of dragon flight, eh? Perhaps you should go check it out for yourself. I recommend you go to your local libraryandcheck out'Dragons World'.

One book out of many self made illusionary theorie. I'm surprised you haven't mentionned The Flight of Dragon by Dickinson.

and I would'n even call the dragons in Dragon World...Dragon. They were pale representation of real dragons

[Tarran of Chaos]

Dickinson is old, and probably dead by now. Let me do a google search to see what Christopher Columbus thought of dragon flight. Hmmm, I bet he said... its magic!

[Dragoniade]

Dickinson is old, and probably dead by now. Let me do a google search to see what Christopher Columbus thought of dragon flight. Hmmm, I bet he said... its magic!

ok. Don't feed the Troll. You definitly have nothing better to do than Troll dragons and other boarders with that kind of responses.
How old are you to compare something published in 1986 to something 500 years old? 10 years old, right? That would be twice the time between now and the release of the book.

[Tarran of Chaos]

And in regards to your comment about dryads flying when they have hoard consuming abilities, there is such a freaking overflux of hoard in the world its insane. I could go out and start hunting right now and in an hour have 50 hoardables. You are never gonna burn hoard at that rate and were never meant to in the first place. The state of affairs is what happens when someone jumps in and picks up someone elses work and continues it without thinking anything through.

[Tarran of Chaos]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Tarran of Chaos wrote:

LOL. Well who am I to tell a *cough dragon cough* about the scientific theory of dragon flight, eh? Perhaps you should go check it out for yourself. I recommend you go to your local libraryandcheck out'Dragons World'.


One book out of many self made illusionary theorie. I'm surprised you haven't mentionned The Flight of Dragon by Dickinson.

and I would'n even call the dragons in Dragon World...Dragon. They were pale representation of real dragons

How do you know? Seen any lately? rofl
I finally know where the saying "such a drag" originated.

[Dragoniade]

And in regards to your comment about dryads flying when they have hoard consuming abilities, there is such a freaking overflux of hoard in the world its insane. I could go out and start hunting right now and in an hour have 50 hoardables. You are never gonna burn hoard at that rate and were never meant to in the first place. The state of affairs is what happens when someone jumps in and picks up someone elses work and continues it without thinking anything through.

50 hoardable an hour? Let me laugh. Unless you're hunting level 20 monsters in your 100, sure.
You see that huge thing in your mouth called a Feet? That goes on the ground. Try playing a dragon up to level 100 without feeding him hoard with your farming biped

[Tarran of Chaos]

Well thats funny, I know dragons who make millions in hoard in trandalar frost blights... I knew the same dragons to do the same thing when they were smaller in the chiconis dead pool.

[Fireclaw]

I have to agree with Dragoniade that the idea of dragons as hydrogen blimps is ridiculous.

(1) Dragons are fictional creatures - This may come as a shock to you, but they do not exist in real life. Trying to quote so called "scientific" authorities that were not written by the game's creators explaining how videogame dragons in Istaria fly is invalid, when those explanations run counter to the official lore of the gameworld.

(2) While its true that Tulga could choose to discard or use the lore of the game that dragons fly through magic, they have not chosen to do so. Until they do, it is quite clear that the only proper explanation explaining how Istarian dragons fly is the official one published and approved by the developers of the game ... that dragons fly through their magic and only use their wings to help maneuver.

I also agree with other posters that hokey aerodynamics arguments are pointless. The developers aren't striving to create reality. What they are trying to do is create a balanced, fun, and unique gameworld. Major changes to races or classes shouldn't be added simply out of a misguided notion that doing so will make the game "realistic". The goal in making changes is to make a better game... not to make a supposedly more realistic game that's worse and less fun.