Re: dungeons
Well the code for creating lairs might make it easier for the devs to actually make caverns and such. I've always wondered why they couldn't set a mobs aggro range or behavior so that they could create a cavern and have the mob not leave no matter what happened. I thought that way way way back one of the devs gave us the reason why something like that wasn't possible. I honestly don't remember the exact reason.
Re: dungeons
Ah no. the code to make underground rooms tunnels and chambers has always been in the game. Since release, there was an actual dungeon in the Eastern Deadlands with stairs, multiple levels, underground rooms and spooky chambers, but no monsters. There was a lid on the chamber, but you could get inside using /setscale.Originally Posted by Lycaunoss
The reason why dungeons don't exist in the game is not that the client is incapable of rendering dungeons graphically, but rather that without a world model the monsters can't properly navigate through a dungeon.
So no, the introduction of lairs does not add any new technology to the game that would let them make a workable dungeon.
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Fireclaw Longtail - Chaos Shard - Ancient Lunus Dragon
100 Dragon Adventurer / 100 Dragoncrafter / 28 million hoard
Re: dungeons
Ya ya ya I know that. Think quest editor and you will see my train of thought. We don't honestly know how tedious it is for the devs to create those "dungeons" that are already in game. I think that easy building of the environment would be a step towards having them in game even if just a small one. I'd also like to have them in game even if they don't have mobs in them just because they are cool.
Re: dungeons
Like pj said a dungeon could be created using the same technique they used to make the rift. It would not be something you just walked into, we would have to teleport.
Keeping it far away from normal landmasses would solve alot of the problems they had with mobs going thru walls, ( or escaping up out of a dungeon). And using dirt for the walls would make them solid enough for mobs not to pass thru it. Heck just building dirt filler inside existing walls like in east blight would keep mobs form passing thru them. Of course then they would just scale them instantly... but at least they wouldn't pass thru. If the mobs had a limit on the angle of the surface they could climb, and inside walls they fashioned fake world surface (dirt), mobs could be kept inside the lines so to speak.
Tulga could pick a section of wall in EB, or a section of the augundell wall. put a thin vertical strip of dirt in it, and limit mobs from climbing steep angles. Then test it. The mob "run-away" subroutine would apply so that they ran away if unable to attack at all any player character they were engaged in battle with.
If test wall section worked properly, they could just add more in over time. Augundell, harro, morning light outside walls, seem like good places to start.
Re: dungeons
an area like the rift with set pathing for the mobs could lead to a "dungeon-ish" style. however pathing that detailed creates problems in itself.
dungeons, not like the ones you are used to if you ever played just about any other mmo, just aren't that feasible without a world model to dictate how a npc mob reacts to objects, players, terrain, obstacles, etc....
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Re: dungeons
Lairs WILL support some cool features which I suspect iswhy they were willing to put so much effort into them. It's just that dungeons aren't one of those features.
Expect to see modular housing along the lines of dragon lairs for other races some day. Dryad tree houses, dwarven tunnels, whatever people can think up.
The old EQ didn't have a very advanced world model either -- at least initially -- and they managed dungeons. One thing I remember was that if mobs had to go very far they'd be nailed to a preset path. I recall many times pulling goblins in Permafrost and watching them come down the exact same track. You could even see that the track was made of line segments and where the line segmentsjoined. That game also had z-axis problems (not quite as severe as HZ though --since ithad multiple levels) and unrealistic things happened.
I still remember the time my wizard friend sent an Eye of Zomm through the pit on the second floor of Befallen to check out the third. 2 seconds later he was yelling at me to run and 2 seconds after that I was dead when all the mobs which had beenon the third floorpopped up to the second. They agroed on the Eye and hence on the Wizard and didn't worry about minor things like which level anyone was on.
Dungeons aren't really a necessity. We've managed almost two years without them and people hardly ever mention them. They ARE a fantasy staple the game doesn't have though. But nobody says every fantasy game MUST have every one of the staples.
Re: dungeons
Critters in EQ also agro'd through walls, hit through walls, and depending on the dungeon would walk through walls too.
Dungeons are just plain difficult to implement, but they sure can be fun [:D]
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
- Albert Einstein
Re: dungeons
Not certain if this is either here or there....but in my wanderings on New Trismus, I did find a cave, small, but inhabited with maggots.....
Almost sounds like a start. Unfortunately, I do not remember if this was in Blight or on the live server...... and I am not certain if this is what ya all were talking about.
For me, I like the wide open spaces where there is lots of room to wander off the beaten path. [:P]
Annai Aditu
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