Dragons: What are they?

[Dragoniade]

I was showing that I hit 3.6K, but ONLY with leadership.

I never really stopped to see what was the leadership buff, when it actually worked.
What bonus does it give?

[Aranous]

I managed a few2-3kish gold rages a few days ago during Rouphus' AROP guardian fights, while self buffedusing a misty topazcrystal. Typical damage on the guardians was somewhat lower on a normal hit.

Without the crystalproc most hits looked like this:
[11/02/05 16:11:29] You hit Guardian of Blood with Gold Rage VII for 656 damage.
[11/02/05 16:11:29] You hit Guardian of Blood with Gold Rage VII for 674 damage.
[11/02/05 16:11:29] You hit Guardian of Blood with Gold Rage VII for 788 damage.

[11/02/05 15:37:10] You hit Guardian of Heart with Gold Rage VII for 782 damage.
[11/02/05 15:37:10] You hit Guardian of Heart with Gold Rage VII for 584 damage.
[11/02/05 15:37:10] You hit Guardian of Heart with Gold Rage VII for 642 damage.

[11/02/05 15:50:47] You hit Guardian of Bone with Gold Rage VII for 635 damage.
[11/02/05 15:50:47] You hit Guardian of Bone with Gold Rage VII for 610 damage.
[11/02/05 15:50:47] You hit Guardian of Bone with Gold Rage VII for 662 damage.

[11/02/05 15:51:12] You hit Guardian of Bone with Gold Rage VII for 821 damage.
[11/02/05 15:51:12] You hit Guardian of Bone with Gold Rage VII for 605 damage.
[11/02/05 15:51:12] You hit Guardian of Bone with Gold Rage VII for 658 damage.

assumed to be with the crystal proc:
[11/02/05 20:12:23] You hit Guardian of Blood with Gold Rage VII for 1069 damage.
[11/02/05 20:12:23] You hit Guardian of Blood with Gold Rage VII for 1113 damage.
[11/02/05 20:12:23] You hit Guardian of Blood with Gold Rage VII for 1126 damage.

[11/02/05 15:37:52] You hit Guardian of Heart with Gold Rage VII for 1099 damage.
[11/02/05 15:37:52] You hit Guardian of Heart with Gold Rage VII for 1158 damage.
[11/02/05 15:37:52] Guardian of Heart has been killed.

[11/02/05 16:03:35] You hit Guardian of Mind with Gold Rage VII for 1089 damage.
[11/02/05 16:03:35] You hit Guardian of Mind with Gold Rage VII for 1065 damage.
[11/02/05 16:03:35] You hit Guardian of Mind with Gold Rage VII for 929 damage.

[11/02/05 16:11:14] You hit Guardian of Blood with Gold Rage VII for 1148 damage.
[11/02/05 16:11:14] You hit Guardian of Blood with Gold Rage VII for 1003 damage.
[11/02/05 16:11:14] You hit Guardian of Blood with Gold Rage VII for 1078 damage.

Screenshot:
http://photobucket.com/albums/d125/A...t=goldrage.jpg

[PJ]

I had a longer post, but it was long and rambling and convoluted. So I've summarized it into a set of points.


Dragons sucked alot when horizons was released. BUT they're substantially better now.

Building a full level hoard today is far easier then at any point in horizons history.

Its extremely easy as a biped to twink a dragons hoard via farming.

A dragon, particularly an ancient with flame burst,can farm their own hoard, but not quite as fast as a multiclassed biped.

The drops for hoard, when killing one mob at a time, are bad. But so are the drops for killing anything one mob at a time.

At the higher hoard levels, the bonuses from hoard are negligible compared to the bonus damage of gold rage on a per hoard basis. Unless you're taking an extreme long term perspective

A dragon not using hoard moves, and with a level 0 hoard is comparable to a single classed biped. While you may not be better then a single classed biped in any one area, a dragon is an extremely versatile single class, with moderate armor, high health, a variety of spells, low melee damage, a nice damage shield. However this does not particularly match any outside lore interpretations of dragons. Now while, outside lore has no bearing on how dragons in horizons SHOULD be. Outside lore can and does effect our reactions to dragons in horizons. Given that they're a large draw to horizons, there's some importance to not disappoint.

An ancient dragon with a decent level hoard and using hoard moves, is comparable to a multiclassed biped. NOTE: comparable not equivalent. They're easily the top melee damagers in the game, with high levels of armor, health, damage shield, large aoe damge. Now they are comparable in that they're desireable in groups have areas in which they excel etc. Now multiclassed levels are forever, but it takes a considerable amount of effort to solo build up a well multiclassed biped. Meanwhile it takes a fair amount of effort to build up a full leveld hoard, but the amount of hoard needed for a gold rage is fairly low compared to drops. But unlike biped levels, once spent, hoard is gone. So a continual time investment is needed. Now a dragon burning hoard is much closer to dragons from outside lore. But they lack the flexiblity and choice of a biped.


One thing I am interested in, is what some of the dragons here think of the fate of Hoard using abilities once ancient classes do come out. Albeit its hard to do that with no info about them having been released. But purely hypothetically.

[Dragoniade]

An ancient dragon with a decent level hoard and using hoard moves, is comparable to a multiclassed biped. NOTE: comparable not equivalent. They're easily the top melee damagers in the game, with high levels of armor, health, damage shield, large aoe damge. Now they are comparable in that they're desireable in groups have areas in which they excel etc. Now multiclassed levels are forever, but it takes a considerable amount of effort to solo build up a well multiclassed biped. Meanwhile it takes a fair amount of effort to build up a full leveld hoard, but the amount of hoard needed for a gold rage is fairly low compared to drops. But unlike biped levels, once spent, hoard is gone. So a continual time investment is needed. Now a dragon burning hoard is much closer to dragons from outside lore. But they lack the flexiblity and choice of a biped.


One thing I am interested in, is what some of the dragons here think of the fate of Hoard using abilities once ancient classes do come out. Albeit its hard to do that with no info about them having been released. But purely hypothetically.

Yes. When using hoard, we're comparable to a multiclassed biped. However, we're only the equivalent of a 2 school multiclassed bipeds. We're far from those 4-8 multiclassed bipeds. And when game content are added for those powered player, we get the short end of the stick.

Also, I do agree with you about the hoard burning. When you use an attack that cost you 600 points, and only get back for about 1k. it's going to take an eternity to reach level 100.
Once you've reached level 100 hoards, and got a nice buffer over it, hoard abilities is no longer a problem becasue you won't be losing any level. But when trying to reach that, hoard abilities are more a bane than a gifts.

Hoard should be dropped on a AND basic rather than OR. Just like some monster can drop 2 items, hoard should be calculated OUTSIDE normal reward, just like coins and experiences are.

[Joaqim]

Still away over weekend...so no chance to get any max dmg new ingame.

Butmy Zerker hada lil hunt with a lvl 100 Adult Dragon before leaving, a also max dmg built, but not Ancient, but STR to max (STR scales). Both we had Gifts, raises, Dragon buffs, both we had over 1900 STR under that condition, both we had crappy armor (around 1700).We werehunting T6 Abominations, I wasonly using my own Zerker ragethe dmg we dideach single hit for multi and gold rage wasin about the same, in averagemaybe 700+ dmg, just that multi is x5 but onlonger timer. Guess it's time to give valkor another visit to check on a target which didn't fall that fast[:D]

[Tribunal]

yeah, been moving into another house this weekend, and come back and see that these threads are still chucking along! (not that I'm surprised[:#])

[Tarran of Chaos]

Wow apparently you dont even know how to play your dragon Mr Dragonaide. An ancient, or even adult lunus, is in no way comparable to a 2 x 100 biped. No way no how. A dragon can rip down one mob after another with lighting efficiency. Hoard drops are profilic. You cant burn more than you gain on most mob types. You either know little of yourself or little of the bipeds to be sure. I will refer you to the arena to test that theory. Dragons have the AoE's, the single target kill combos, the ease of travel and escape. In no way are you comparable to a 2 x 100 biped.

[Dragoniade]

Wow apparently you dont even know how to play your dragon Mr Dragonaide. An ancient, or even adult lunus, is in no way comparable to a 2 x 100 biped. No way no how. A dragon can rip down one mob after another with lighting efficiency. Hoard drops are profilic. You cant burn more than you gain on most mob types. You either know little of yourself or little of the bipeds to be sure. I will refer you to the arena to test that theory. Dragons have the AoE's, the single target kill combos, the ease of travel and escape. In no way are you comparable to a 2 x 100 biped.

If for you 'knowing little of yourself' means 'leveling a single type of dragon: Lunus and always fight the same way without any variety' then I don't know myself. Because, I'm no Lunus.

What you said about dragon can be attained by leveling 2 right classes to 100. And what you get, you keep. As for your 'rip down monster after another' try this when more than 1 agrro and keep it coming. And I'm pretty sure if you keep using Gold Rage over and over, you won't end up leveling your hoard, only keep it steady to what it was before the fight.

No sorry, for me, being balanced mean being able to level, not hold my levels.

[Narkano]

... Dragoniade, it seems you simply don't want to play your dragon and make use of its abilities and possibilities.

... matter of factly no one forces you into hunting alone. Go out hunting with one or more bipeds and your hoard-dropping-problem is solved immediately.

... if you want to do it all alone, ok, it's a little bit harder but still easy enough. Just get yourself a set of armor scales teched at least with power and primal and start farming tier 4 mobs for hoardables by chain-casting your teched AoE spells.Won't need even a single point of hoard on one handbut you're able togather huge amounts of hoardables on the other hand ... and btw much more easy than leveling a single-class healer, cleric, monk, disciple, crossbowman etc. to 100th level alone.

... and no 2-classed bipedcan everhope to compete with a dragon not even an adult Helian. But I am curious as to what classes you would suggest ...

- Narkano